28 May
2015
28 May
'15
7:53 p.m.
Maybe only semi-OT. I'm working on a couple of classiccmp-ish projects
(6303, 6309 and 68030) and I find the trusty old Tek 465 o-scope is no
longer compensating for my lack of design skill (or I'm getting better at
hiding bugs in my designs, depending how you look at it). I'm looking for
a recommendation for a logic analyzer. Considering my very modest design
constraints, I'm thinking:
- Suitable for 50MHz designs (really more like <16MHz, but you never know)
- 32 channels would be nice, ~128 probably perfect, less...you know...do
what you gotta do...
- No weird technologies in the design (all TTL/CMOS logic)
- I'm willing to spend a few $$ to get decent kit, but need to spend closer
to 465 money than TLA7012 money
- Decent analytics, hopefully more than "here's your traces...good luck"
- Ease of finding complete kit; nothing worse than dropping a dime on what
looks like a good deal only to find you're missing the unobtanium cable, or
the software disk that the vendor will be more than happy to provide you
only under a cripplingly expensive support contract.
A brief cruse of ePay didn't turn up much Tek/HP/Agilent older-generation
kit that looked like it fit the budget, but I'm not entirely sure I know
what I'm looking at. I know there's a general allergy to anything USB
around here, and worse Windows-based USB software, but there is tons of
USB-based stuff that looked like a possibility for those who are willing to
hold their nose.
So have the USB logic analyzers achieved Willem levels of usefulness (which
one?), or is there a must-have Tek 465 moral equivalent I need to be
looking for?
KJ
28 May
28 May
8:06 p.m.
On 05/28/2015 09:53 PM, Ken Seefried wrote:
Maybe only semi-OT. I'm working on a couple of
classiccmp-ish projects
(6303, 6309 and 68030) and I find the trusty old Tek 465 o-scope is no
longer compensating for my lack of design skill (or I'm getting better at
hiding bugs in my designs, depending how you look at it). I'm looking for
a recommendation for a logic analyzer. Considering my very modest design
constraints, I'm thinking:
- Suitable for 50MHz designs (really more like <16MHz, but you never know)
- 32 channels would be nice, ~128 probably perfect, less...you know...do
what you gotta do...
- No weird technologies in the design (all TTL/CMOS logic)
- I'm willing to spend a few $$ to get decent kit, but need to spend closer
to 465 money than TLA7012 money
The Tek 1240 should work. If you want disassemblers, you need to look
up whether those specific CPUs are supported, but many of the common
ones from that vintage were available.
Probably not 68030, though.
The DAS9200 is a lot more capable, but had several different families of
acq cards, and some used different (incompatible) pods for the CPU
connection.
There's also the TLA 710 /TLA 720 series that are basically DAS9200's.
These are often cheap on eBay. They are able to be connected to the
net, and you can access them from a Linux PC.
Jon
10:33 p.m.
New subject: Looking for the Tek 465 of Logic Analysers
Maybe only semi-OT. I'm working on a couple of classiccmp-ish projects
(6303, 6309 and 68030) and I find the trusty old Tek 465 o-scope is no
longer compensating for my lack of design skill (or I'm getting better at
hiding bugs in my designs, depending how you look at it). I'm looking for
a recommendation for a logic analyzer. Considering my very modest design
constraints, I'm thinking:
Firstly a word of caution. When I was younger, and LA's were very expensive (none
had become surplus), I dreamed of owning one and thought it would solve all my
debugging problems. Many years later I did get one and while useful (I use it a lot
more than a 'scope) I have realised it is not a magic box that provides all the
answers.
Useful, sure, but not a substitute for thinking ;-)
- Suitable for 50MHz designs (really more like
<16MHz, but you never know)
- 32 channels would be nice, ~128 probably perfect, less...you know...do
what you gotta do...
- No weird technologies in the design (all TTL/CMOS logic)
That is going to be a problem. AFAIK no 'serious' logic analyser was all
TTL or (high speed) CMOS. If you are looking for one that is mostly/all
standard logic, I think you have to consider ECL here.
- I'm willing to spend a few $$ to get decent kit,
but need to spend closer
to 465 money than TLA7012 money
- Decent analytics, hopefully more than "here's your traces...good luck"
- Ease of finding complete kit; nothing worse than dropping a dime on what
looks like a good deal only to find you're missing the unobtanium cable, or
the software disk that the vendor will be more than happy to provide you
only under a cripplingly expensive support contract.
The 2 I have :
Gould Biomation K100D (manual on bitsavers). All standard 10K ECL in the input
side, controlled by a 6800 with ROM firmware. HPIB host interface
HP1630 (manual from whatever Agilent became, includes schemaitcs, unlike later HP
LA manuals). This has custom ECL ICs in the input stage, but a lot of standard logic
too. Controlled by a 6809, and this is the only time I have seen the 6829 used. HPIB
and HPIL interfaces.
Neither of these need softwre disks to work. Both have documented command sets,
so you can control them from a machine with an HPIB interface (I use an HP9000/200
machine for this).
Make sure you get the pods/leads when buying a second-hand LA. They often go
missing, and are unobtainium. Making your own is not a real option, although
both the LA's I have mentioned have differential ECL inputs, so a TTL-only pod
is a possible project (look at the 10124 chip).
-tony
A brief cruse of ePay didn't turn up much Tek/HP/Agilent older-generation
kit that looked like it fit the budget, but I'm not entirely sure I know
what I'm looking at. I know there's a general allergy to anything USB
around here, and worse Windows-based USB software, but there is tons of
USB-based stuff that looked like a possibility for those who are willing to
hold their nose.
So have the USB logic analyzers achieved Willem levels of usefulness (which
one?), or is there a must-have Tek 465 moral equivalent I need to be
looking for?
KJ
29 May
29 May
8:36 a.m.
New subject: Looking for the Tek 465 of Logic Analysers
I'd go to a 16500C. Handy do-everything analyser mainframe, which can
have a scope and a pattern generator (mine has it all) integrated. Modular
and most parts are WAY CHEAP.
Of course you can go one step higher and get the 17500.
---
Enviado do meu Apple IIGS (pq eu sou chique)
Meu site: http://www.tabalabs.com.br
Meu blog: http://tabajara-labs.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Seefried" <seefriek at gmail.com>
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 11:53 PM
Subject: OT: Looking for the Tek 465 of Logic Analysers
Maybe only semi-OT. I'm working on a couple of
classiccmp-ish projects
(6303, 6309 and 68030) and I find the trusty old Tek 465 o-scope is no
longer compensating for my lack of design skill (or I'm getting better at
hiding bugs in my designs, depending how you look at it). I'm looking for
a recommendation for a logic analyzer. Considering my very modest design
constraints, I'm thinking:
- Suitable for 50MHz designs (really more like <16MHz, but you never know)
- 32 channels would be nice, ~128 probably perfect, less...you know...do
what you gotta do...
- No weird technologies in the design (all TTL/CMOS logic)
- I'm willing to spend a few $$ to get decent kit, but need to spend
closer
to 465 money than TLA7012 money
- Decent analytics, hopefully more than "here's your traces...good luck"
- Ease of finding complete kit; nothing worse than dropping a dime on what
looks like a good deal only to find you're missing the unobtanium cable,
or
the software disk that the vendor will be more than happy to provide you
only under a cripplingly expensive support contract.
A brief cruse of ePay didn't turn up much Tek/HP/Agilent older-generation
kit that looked like it fit the budget, but I'm not entirely sure I know
what I'm looking at. I know there's a general allergy to anything USB
around here, and worse Windows-based USB software, but there is tons of
USB-based stuff that looked like a possibility for those who are willing
to
hold their nose.
So have the USB logic analyzers achieved Willem levels of usefulness
(which
one?), or is there a must-have Tek 465 moral equivalent I need to be
looking for?
KJ
3495
days inactive
3495
days old
3 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
alexandre.tabajara＠gmail.com -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
jonathanelson＠email.wustl.edu -
seefriek＠gmail.com