On Friday 17 May 2002 00:14, you wrote: "...The Left's First Amendment would read 'Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech, etc. ... providing such speech or activities do not offend. If any offense is taken, citizen whiners, being necessary to the security of a politically correct state, shall from time to time suppress the offender's free speech rights by any means necessary, including, but not limited to, required sensitivity training, re-education, and loss of income'." --Edwin Feulner "If winning is the only value, why debate when you can suppress?" --John Leo "'No tolerance' means more than just a warning, because that would mean tolerance." --Dry Creek Elementary School Principal Darci Mickle, of Centennial, Colorado, discussing seven fourth-graders sent home from school, then sentenced to a week's lunchtime detention, for violating "zero tolerance" policies; the boys, playing a game of soldiers and aliens, pointed their fingers like firearms during the mock battles. A lot has been said about the "good Germans, who said nothing" what is missing from most of it is why they were silent and how they where silenced, "Being a lover of freedom, when the [Nazi] revolution came, I looked to the universities to defend it, knowing that they had always boasted of their devotion to the cause of truth; but no, the universities were immediately silenced. Then I looked to the great editors of the newspapers, whose flaming editorials in days gone had proclaimed their love of freedom; but they, like the universities, were silenced in a few short weeks.... Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's campaign for suppressing the truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration for it because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual and moral freedom. I am forced to confess that what I once despised I now praise unreservedly." --Albert Einstein Its a tactic of the left to purge any casual mention of their bloodstained past from all forums the same way the NAZIs silenced their opposition in the last days of the Wiemar republic. All lists have their brushfires and posts that look like bait, but the fires consume their fuel and extingush themselves, and even the most intrangent will soon enough notice he is off in the ditch and steer himself back between the stripes. Those of us that are accustomed to American freedom, and what that means grant latitude to the voice and actions of others automatically, knowing that the license we grant to others directly supports our own. In my opinion, i would have routed those clamoring for "control" to /dev/null , once you act on the desires of the control freaks you empower them with the ability of the always used tactic of making such a clamor that you in effect hand over all power to them to shut them up. a tactic that works all too often. Raymond _______________________________________________ cctalk mailing list cctalk(a)classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk

Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 06:13:15 -0500 From: Raymond Moyers <rmoyers(a)nop.org> Reply-To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: [CCTALK] Rants, List Bifurcation On Friday 17 May 2002 00:14, you wrote: "...The Left's First Amendment would read 'Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech, etc. ... providing such speech or activities do not offend. If any offense is taken, citizen whiners, being necessary to the security of a politically correct state, shall from time to time suppress the offender's free speech rights by any means necessary, including, but not limited to, required sensitivity training, re-education, and loss of income'." --Edwin Feulner "If winning is the only value, why debate when you can suppress?" --John Leo "'No tolerance' means more than just a warning, because that would mean tolerance." --Dry Creek Elementary School Principal Darci Mickle, of Centennial, Colorado, discussing seven fourth-graders sent home from school, then sentenced to a week's lunchtime detention, for violating "zero tolerance" policies; the boys, playing a game of soldiers and aliens, pointed their fingers like firearms during the mock battles. A lot has been said about the "good Germans, who said nothing" what is missing from most of it is why they were silent and how they where silenced, "Being a lover of freedom, when the [Nazi] revolution came, I looked to the universities to defend it, knowing that they had always boasted of their devotion to the cause of truth; but no, the universities were immediately silenced. Then I looked to the great editors of the newspapers, whose flaming editorials in days gone had proclaimed their love of freedom; but they, like the universities, were silenced in a few short weeks.... Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's campaign for suppressing the truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration for it because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual and moral freedom. I am forced to confess that what I once despised I now praise unreservedly." --Albert Einstein Its a tactic of the left to purge any casual mention of their bloodstained past from all forums the same way the NAZIs silenced their opposition in the last days of the Wiemar republic. All lists have their brushfires and posts that look like bait, but the fires consume their fuel and extingush themselves, and even the most intrangent will soon enough notice he is off in the ditch and steer himself back between the stripes. Those of us that are accustomed to American freedom, and what that means grant latitude to the voice and actions of others automatically, knowing that the license we grant to others directly supports our own. In my opinion, i would have routed those clamoring for "control" to /dev/null , once you act on the desires of the control freaks you empower them with the ability of the always used tactic of making such a clamor that you in effect hand over all power to them to shut them up. a tactic that works all too often. Raymond _______________________________________________ cctalk mailing list cctalk(a)classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk

I think the obvious answer comes from the Church of the Subgenius: your first duty as a member is to form your own splinter sect. By putting each Classic Computer Collector in their own separate mailing list, we'll reduce the number of offended, minus those who can successfully argue with themselves either by virtue of nature, nuture or medication.

At 01:14 AM 5/17/2002 -0400, Glen Goodwin whined: >a new server and software. However, I would like to protect myself from >Mr. Moyers' offensive rants. Since this is a private list, is there any >mechanism for banishment of gross repeat offenders?

By putting each Classic Computer Collector in their own separate mailing list, we'll reduce the number of offended, minus those who can successfully argue with themselves either by virtue of nature, nuture or medication.