And they're all gone. DAMN that was quick! On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 12:26 AM, Wolfgang Eichberger <oe5ewl at gmail.com> wrote: -- Gary G. Sparkes Jr. KB3HAG

figured you guys would like to know :) anyhow now i need to find a drive for them and a card so i can atach it to my 8a

On Dec 19, 2011, at 12:59 AM, Adrian Stoness wrote: Yes, considering that the auction still had 22+ days left on it. :-) You can find some amazing things for amazing prices at estate sales. - Dave

On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:28 PM, jim s <jws at jwsss.com> wrote: Are you perhaps thinking of RK05 cartridges? Those have visible notches on the hub and come in 12-sector versions for 16-bit hosts and 16-sector versions for 12-bit hosts (same number of bits per track, just grouped differently). The RL01 and RL02 use embedded servo data (with no way to restore that in the field, so bulk-erased packs are useless in DEC drives). The stickers and handles are color coded (brown vs blue). All other external indicators are the same between the two types of packs. http://www.pdp-11.nl/peripherals/disk/rl-info.html 40 sectors per track, 256 byte sectors. RL01s have 256 tracks per surface, RL02s have 512 tracks per surface (different heads, and either different boards inside, or same boards but different jumper settings depending on the revision). As a result, one can rig RL02s to (safely) read RL01 packs, but I've never done it myself). -ethan

On 12/19/11 11:46 AM, jim s wrote: They are actually IBM 5440 physical packaging, first used on System/3. The cylinder positioning uses an embedded servo, on track is hard sectored.

Is this the drive that is about 20mb or so on the platter? CDC had a drive that had one platter like this over 2 or 3 fixed and was 80mb total. It used winchester heads, I think. since the platter on top was spun by the same spindle as the fixed ones there had to be some different method of finding the data for the removable packs. I never looked at the pack for sector marks. I vaguely recall one of the CDC drives having a physical index, but the use of it in formatting data was optional. We had a controller that would get on track when formatting and lay down the sectors with 0 data payload, and when we would do our verification, we would first re-record the format aligned with the index mark, then precess by 1/2 sector for each retry. The dropouts were guaranteed to be permanent write splice errors, so we didn't worry about anything but getting a good track laid down if the first guess failed. The controller interface and drive was SMD in that case. Jim

On 12/19/2011 11:00 AM, Ethan Dicks wrote: Here are the photos from the auction http://photobucket.com/rl02 picture "data02" and "data04" have the hub in view. Way more than either 12 or 16 sectors. The 40 mentioned elsewhere in your reply, but not for RL02 seems to fit, but I'm not sure I can count how many notches are there. Jim

I have one or two of the RL8-A controllers left. I even know where they are , but I can't get to them very easily right now. They are getting hard to find, unlike the Uni-bus and both Q-bus versions. Paul On 12/19/11, Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 12:56 AM, Adrian Stoness <tdk.knight at gmail.com> wrote: RL02 drives were common at DEC sites (more common in my experience than RL01s, for example), but RL8A cards were somewhat unusual. I bought mine in the early 1980s for $600 to use with an RL01 (the availability of which dried up right after I got it). I have not seen an RL8A listed as available (for any price, even "$CALL") on reseller sites since about 1997 (from the same sites that _do_ have CPUs and MOS memory cards and other "common" OMNIBUS parts for sale). -ethan

On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 4:57 PM, Henk Gooijen <henk.gooijen at hotmail.com> wrote: It's been over 10 years since I gave the drive I had a new home. It's entirely possible that it was badged Perkin-Elmer (both starting with "P", after all. I got it from a friend who was moving and never did anything with it, so about all I remember for certain is that it was at least as large as an RL02 (there's a chance it was taller or had an external PSU), and the body was black-painted steel (not brushed aluminum or plated steel). I don't even recall if the faceplate was white or black or what. I hate to disagree with you, but mine look just like the ones at the bottom of this page... http://www.pdp-11.nl/peripherals/disk/rl-info.html In person (i.e., with better lighting), the accent parts are a dark, chocolate brown. -ethan

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 12/20/2011 10:43 AM, Henk Gooijen wrote: Henk... I just visited your site for the first time. It's spectacular! I have some DEC stuff in my storage lockers that someday will be brought out and reconditioned. Your site really is an excellent resource. Best regards, Barry

On 12/20/11 9:09 AM, "Alexandre Souza - Listas" <pu1bzz.listas at gmail.comwrote: That is a pretty cool call sign, if I say so myself - Ian K7PDP ;-)

On 12/21/2011 04:38 AM, Pete Turnbull wrote: My fiancee' and I have the exact same disagreement about Cray J90 racks. We'll both be standing in front of one, I'll say "this is brown!" and she'll say "you're nuts, that's gray!" I've used RL01s for most of my life, I have quite a few packs here; they look distinctly brown to me. I will ask my fiancee' what color she thinks they are the next time an opportunity arises. Is there some difference in visual perception going on here? -Dave -- Dave McGuire New Kensington, PA

On 12/21/2011 12:02 PM, Brian L. Stuart wrote: This is the strangest thing. Have you seen any of the earlier 8000-series VAXen (8700, 8800, etc) with the dark bar up to and the raised light-colored lettering? If so, what color do you perceive for that dark bar? -Dave -- Dave McGuire New Kensington, PA

It was thus said that the Great Dave McGuire once stated: Could be. I know that I see slightly different hues out each eye. It's only noticable in bright light though. I attribute this oddity to stupidity on my part [1] as a kid. -spc (And I find that M.A.S.H. looks funny [2] in color) [1] I had a telescope as a kid, and there was this huge warning not to look directly at the sun through it. Yup, there's a good reason for that warning. [2] I had a small B&W television set as a kid. M.A.S.H. was one of my favorite shows and thus, I always saw it in B&W. So now, it just looks "odd" to me in color. I don't have this issue with any other show.

On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 12:55 PM, <schoedel at kw.igs.net> wrote: Not in my case - I've owned RL01 packs since I was 19. I thought they looked dark brown then and look dark brown now. And I know (i.e., have been tested) I am not colorblind. It's also possible that since I run them at home (under incandescent light and sunlight) and some may have only seen them in data centers (cool white florescent) there's a perception difference based on input spectrum. I do not own a spectrophotometer, but a gray card wouldn't be hard to score. -ethan

On 12/21/2011 01:09 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote: Same response here. -Dave -- Dave McGuire New Kensington, PA

At 11:55 AM 12/21/2011, schoedel at kw.igs.net wrote: Plastics can change color over time, depending on what sun and chemicals they were exposed to, and different batches of plastic can change differently. - John

----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave McGuire" <mcguire at neurotica.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 4:56 PM Subject: Re: rl02 disks for cheap on ebay Going OT, but there have been studies about colour. For example, IIRC, blue causes us to wake up and/or stay awake. So if you are out at a restaurant/club at night and it's lit in blue, don't be surprised if you feel wide awake and very energetic. On the other hand red (or was it purple?) causes us to perceive a period of time to be quicker than it is (up to 1/3 quicker). It is my personal belief that whilst we all know about the rods and cones in our eyes, that we each have a variation in the number of each. Thus what I see as red, may be interpreted by someone else as a slightly darker red. Along those lines there has been atleast one study, where a computer screen displayed something like 12 cubes all in a circle (like the face of a clock). 11 of the squares were the same colour and one was a different colour. They then surveyed lots of people (including one remote tribe) and the results were interesting. For example on one occasion the 11 squares were green and the different coloured one was blue. However, alot of the tribesmen (and women) struggled to tell the difference. The theory was that if you have never been exposed to a particular colour before (or not very often), then the brain would never learn to recognise and/or interpret it. Plus, regardless of the cones/rods idea, the data from our eyes may be interpreted slightly differently by our brains. FYI, I know all this because I watched a documentary (Horizon on the BBC?) about it around half a year ago. On a slightly relevant note, consider 2 colour photocopiers. If you photocopy the same colour image on both, do both copiers give exactly the same output colourwise? Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk

----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Caroline" <dave.thearchivist at gmail.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Friday, December 23, 2011 1:57 PM Subject: Re: OT: Colours, perception of (was Re: rl02 disks for cheap on ebay) No arguing here :) I wear glasses (and so did a mate at school), but I can't think of any women I know (or have known) that wear glasses. Ahh, I see :) Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk

I do find it to be sexy :) I love glasses-wearing girls ;)

On Dec 24, 2011, at 7:22 AM, "Alexandre Souza - Listas" <pu1bzz.listas at gmail.com> wrote: Ohhhh yes, same here. :) -- Dave McGuire New Kensington, PA

On Fri, 23 Dec 2011, Andrew Burton wrote: Gotta URL? Vegas casinos are about the only ones who've acted on any such information. They have NOT repainted blue. Have you EVER seen a hospital "Waiting Room" that was red? "up to" must be VERY significant, if that is not several orders of magnitude exaggerated. Absolutely! I used to have a BLUE Ford Falcon. Almost Navy Blue. Yet, a significant number of people referred to it as "green"! I am buying a Prius V. It is "Blue Ribbon Metallic", which to me seems a little more purplish than Navy Blue. They tried to interest me in one that they insisted was "Sky Blue". "Ice Blue" perhaps. Nobody could call it "SKY BLUE" who lives anywhere that ever gets a non-overcast day. I told them that if my skies weren't bluer than that, then I would move to a sunnier climate. ("Sky blue" IS an established color name, and is included in X11) Hence somebody from Seattle might not recognize "sky blue" Difficult to obtain here. Even Hyperland (pre WWW BBC documetary about the future of the internet, done by Douglas Adams, Tom Baker, and Ted Nelson!) has only been available here as a mediocre quality pirated version :-( In color REPRODUCTION, it's a little easier. "Copy" an "18% Neutral Gray" card (available from professional photgraphy supply houses). The result provides a visual (and quantifiably measurable!) referrent to exactly how much and in what ways the color was altered/corrupted. NB: Kodak sells "18% Gray"; British suppliers have "18% Grey". Those look visually as though they are both the same color AND colour. There are also readily available color patches to use. Back when I was an "Environmental Systems Analyst" (needs to be in quotes), I solved a problem for the Michigan water pollution authorities by giving them one of my copies of the "Kodak Color Dataguide" (Sorry, no ISBN), so that they could leave it open to page 10 and 11 in the corenr of the pictures that their field agents took. The inclusion of 18% GRAY, Grayscale, and "Color Control Patches" in the pictures enabled them to prevent the automatic processing form "correcting" the colors in the pictures. NB: I would not have parted with it if I didn't have a spare! It is FUN! Also, read through "Color As Seen And Photographed". Here's another puzzle for you: Your screen (computer, NTSC/PAL/SECAM, etc.) simulates colors by mixing varying amounts of Red, Green, and Blue. That method works, even if the spectrum used has extremely sharp peaks! It can produce orange, yellow, indigo, and violet, even though there is NO light of those exact specific frequencies! For X11 color names and specs, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X11_color_names is adequate for non-critical use, and check out the links! Pantone is the acknowledged form of color matching for any serious usage. "What color is it? Specify the Pantone number." -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com

On 23 Dec 2011 at 17:02, Mouse wrote: This brings to mind the Land color system using white and red light. --Chuck

On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 22:30, Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote: Look up 'melatonin' and blue light via the Famous Web Search Engine and there's lots of stuff. One is here: http://www.denvernaturopathic.com/bluelightandmelatonin.htm and there are others, but it's maybe a good idea to not only read the popular-press versions.. it's more complicated than that. There are a number of studies which show that it's not as easy as 'see some blue light = your nocturnal period is disrupted' as would be the conclusion http://www.mendeley.com/research/indirect-blue-light-does-not-suppress-noct… says something about that, and the papers it refers also seem to (from a casual glance) to say that it's not as simple as 'blue=awake'. The interesting thing though is the discovery that there are indeed blue-sensitive receptors in the eye which are independent of the other three receptors and is only about detecting the existence of bluish light, and its purpose seems to about resetting/syncing the bodyclock cycle. -Tor

. . . and a simple experiment, . . . if you see a driver of a car who seems to be drowsy and a bit out of it, shining a flashing blue light in their back window will wake him up and raise his heartrate! (that might not be entirely due to "blue receptors")

On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Vincent Slyngstad <vrs at msn.com> wrote: nice site

Maybe it is. To me the handles on RL01 (and RK06) packs are distinctly brown (those on RL02s and RK07s are blue). -tony

On Tue, 20 Dec 2011, Henk Gooijen wrote: The colour of the RL01 on that page is clearly dark brown in my opinion, the same colour as that of our RL01 packs. Christian

Oeh, VT05! Prachtding lijkt me dat.. groet, Sander Reiche On Dec 20, 2011, at 18:18, "Henk Gooijen" <henk.gooijen at hotmail.com> wrote: