14 Apr
2010
14 Apr
'10
4:01 p.m.
I've been reading the HP Integral service manual that Al kindly put on
Bitsavers [1], It's a strange manual in that it includes schematics of
the main logic boards. Why, I don't know, other comtemporary HP computer
service manuals didn't. Not that I'm complaining...
Anyway, various thoughts occured to me as I remember some
thignn about that machine
1) Did HP ever produce the CS/80, SS/80 or Amigo drive exerciser software
to run on the Integral? It seems it would be the ideal machine for use as
a drive tester since it's so easily portable.
2) The later version of the OS ROM module has a space for an option ROM
PCB. It seems like this would be trivial to recreate (schematics of the
ROM Mmodule, inclding the pinouts of the option board connectors are
certainly in 'my' Integral schematics). If enough people are interesd,
it might be worth laying out a PCB...
3) The manual mentions that the Integral expansion bus was an
implementation of some other HP standard bus, but only rows A and C. What
other machine(s) used a similar bus? I can't think of any.
[1] I've also been reading the HP9000/200 Pascal 3.0 system
docuementation. A wonderful mine of information, but oh so annoying to
read on a screen...
-tony
14 Apr
14 Apr
4:51 p.m.
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 1:01 PM, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
2) The later version of the OS ROM module has a space for an option ROM
PCB. It seems like this would be trivial to recreate (schematics of the
ROM Mmodule, inclding the pinouts of the option board connectors are
certainly in 'my' Integral schematics). If enough people are interesd,
it might be worth laying out a PCB...
I had an OS ROM module with BASIC in ROM on the daughter card. I no
longer have an Integral. Would it be any easier or more difficult to
create a whole new ROM module board vs. creating a daughter card to
fit an existing ROM module board? I suppose you might not have space
to fit all of the ROMs on a single board if you wanted to use through
hole components.
When I still had my Integral I was thinking it would be interesting if
someone could create a new ROM board for the expansion slots that
could be loaded with the contents of the Software Development ROM
module.
If someone has an Integral that is completely missing the OS ROM
module I think I have a spare one left (one without the BASIC ROM
daughter card).
-Glen
7:02 p.m.
Glen Slick wrote:
When I still had my Integral I was thinking it would
be interesting if
someone could create a new ROM board for the expansion slots that
could be loaded with the contents of the Software Development ROM
module.
Is there already a dump of the Software Engineering ROM Module
(82987A)? I've got several Integrals but don't have that module to
dump. If a dump were to become available, I'd be willing to design a
new board with a flash memory chip. Maybe with expansion RAM as well.
Eric
7:28 p.m.
On 4/14/10 4:02 PM, Eric Smith wrote:
Is there already a dump of the Software Engineering
ROM Module (82987A)?
The sw engr rom is on pete's site
www.coho.org/~pete/downloads/IPC
What about a dump of the main rom?
18 Apr
18 Apr
2:53 p.m.
Al Kossow wrote:
On 4/14/10 4:02 PM, Eric Smith wrote:
I'd also be interested in a dump of the main ROM.
Is there already a dump of the Software
Engineering ROM Module (82987A)?
The sw engr rom is on pete's site
www.coho.org/~pete/downloads/IPC
What about a dump of the main rom?
15 Apr
15 Apr
5:05 a.m.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] Namens Al Kossow
Verzonden: donderdag 15 april 2010 1:33
Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Onderwerp: Re: HP Integral questions
On 4/14/10 4:02 PM, Eric Smith wrote:
Yep, HP made 2 ROM version a version 1.0 which was based on BSD III
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hp-fix/3299632917/in/set-72157623014583339/
And they made a HP-UX 5.0 which was based on BSD V, the most usefull
version.
The system V is sold as update for the HP-UX 1.0.
I'm not sure if it's sold much but the most Integrals I know of are running
the HP-UX 5.0 version.
-Rik
Is there already a dump of the Software
Engineering ROM
Module (82987A)?
Would there have been two different versions for the SysIII
and SysV versions of HP-UX?
3:36 p.m.
Yep, HP made 2 ROM version a version 1.0 which was
based on BSD III
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hp-fix/3299632917/in/set-72157623014583339/
And they made a HP-UX 5.0 which was based on BSD V, the most usefull
version.
The system V is sold as update for the HP-UX 1.0.
I'm not sure if it's sold much but the most Integrals I know of are running
the HP-UX 5.0 version.
FWWI, both my Integrals are running 5.0.
From what I've read, the HPUC 1.0 module was very
different inside. It
was 2 PCBs (presumably with lower-capacity EPROMs) and they
connected
using different connectors to the OS->option board connectors in the
later module. The option board could (obvisouly) only be used with the
HPUX 5.0 module
I don't know if the ROM PCB that fits in an expansion slot had different
contets for the 2 OS versions. It may well not have done. This PCB
appears ad a read-only disk to HPUX, and since (AFAIK) the disk-based
software ran on both versions of the OS< the ROM software may well have
done too. Certainly the physical PCB, buffers, decode logic, etc would be
the same.
And anothe question : The service manual refers to a PSU test tool. This
appears to eb some kind of dummy load device. I don't suppose anyone has
one....
-tony
16 Apr
16 Apr
4:49 a.m.
On Thu, 15 Apr 2010, Rik Bos wrote:
Yep, HP made 2 ROM version a version 1.0 which was
based on BSD III
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hp-fix/3299632917/in/set-72157623014583339/
And they made a HP-UX 5.0 which was based on BSD V, the most usefull
Never heard of BSD III or BSD V (you know, BSD is not UNIX ;-)
Christian
17 Apr
17 Apr
4:11 a.m.
I wrote:
Is there already a dump of the Software Engineering
ROM Module (82987A)?
Al Kossow wrote:
Would there have been two different versions for the
SysIII
and SysV versions of HP-UX?
Rik Bos wrote:
Yep, HP made 2 ROM version a version 1.0 which was
based on BSD III
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hp-fix/3299632917/in/set-72157623014583339/
And they made a HP-UX 5.0 which was based on BSD V, the most usefull
version.
The question wasn't whether the main ROM came in 1.0 (System III) and
5.0 (System V) versions (neither of which is BSD, though 5.0 contains
some BSD-derived code, and 1.0 might as well). The question is whether
the 82987A Software Engineering ROM came in two versions for use with
the System III and System V main ROMs.
Eric
2:54 p.m.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] Namens Eric Smith
Verzonden: zaterdag 17 april 2010 10:12
Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Onderwerp: Re: HP Integral questions
I wrote:
014583339/
Is there already a dump of the Software
Engineering ROM
Module (82987A)?
Al Kossow wrote:
Would there have been two different versions for
the
SysIII > and SysV versions of HP-UX?
Rik Bos wrote:
Yep, HP made 2 ROM version a version 1.0 which
was based
on BSD III >
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hp-fix/3299632917/in/set-72157623 And they made
a HP-UX 5.0 which was based on BSD V, the
most usefull > version.
The question wasn't whether the main ROM came in 1.0 (System
III) and 5.0 (System V) versions (neither of which is BSD,
though 5.0 contains some BSD-derived code, and 1.0 might as
well). The question is whether the 82987A Software
Engineering ROM came in two versions for use with the System
III and System V main ROMs.
Eric
15 Apr
15 Apr
2:45 p.m.
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 1:01 PM, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
I think it would be easier/better to make the daughterboard. I can think
of several reasons for this :
It's what HP originally designed (and I prefer to keep machines as
original as possible unless there are very good reasons not to do so)
The ROM module connector carries signals for 4 banks of 128K*16 bit ROMs
(IIRC). That is 17 address lines, 16 data lines and 4 chip selects. The
OS ROM PCB (at least the System V one) carreis 4 ROMs, each 128*8 bits,
using 2 of the chip selects and the optional daughter board carries the
other 4 ROms using the other 2 chip selects. Yes it would be trivial to
re-encode the chip-selects back to 2 mroe address lines, but why bother?
I don;t know what the largest easyily-obtainable EPROM is now.
The OS ROM PCB connects to the rest of the machine by having 2 rows of
plated-through holes which are then gold plated and which fit over pins on
the Logic A PCB. Making this would be impossible at home, and it may be
non-trivial to get it done commercially and have it relable after any
insertions/removeals. The option board connects to the OS ROM PCB by a
pair of header connectors that would be easy to obtain and solder to the PCB.
You would have to copy the OS into the new ROMs if you made an all-in-one
PCB. I don't know about copyright issues here. And you'd have to copy the
OS into every ROM set you wanted to use (rather than having several
daughterboasrds which you could just fit into the OS module if you wanted
to change the option ROMs.
The option PCB was just ROMs, nothing else. I see no reason not to keep
it like that.
2) The later version of the OS ROM module has a space for an option ROM
PCB. It seems like this would be trivial to recreate (schematics of the
ROM Mmodule, inclding the pinouts of the option board connectors are
certainly in 'my' Integral schematics). If enough people are interesd,
it might be worth laying out a PCB...
I had an OS ROM module with BASIC in ROM on the daughter card. I no
longer have an Integral. Would it be any easier or more difficult to
create a whole new ROM module board vs. creating a daughter card to
fit an existing ROM module board? I suppose you might not have space
to fit all of the ROMs on a single board if you wanted to use through
hole components. When I still had my Integral I was thinking it would
be interesting if
someone could create a new ROM board for the expansion slots that
could be loaded with the contents of the Software Development ROM
module.
The scheamtics of the HP EPROM PCB are available. IIRC, it's just simple
logic (address decoders, buffers) and could easilty be reproducted. The
other one worht reproducing would be the serial PCB which is again very
simple.
-tony
5183
days inactive
5187
days old
11 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
andreww591＠gmail.com -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cc＠informatik.uni-stuttgart.de -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
hp-fix＠xs4all.nl