11 Oct
2002
11 Oct
'02
4:55 p.m.
I have the possibility to pick up the following:
Sun 600-2575-06 : 10" square by about 4" tall. Has drive and a whole
lot of memory . . . .
Sun Sparc Station 1 Model 147 p/n 608-2217-01 : 15" square by about 3"
tall. Guess this is the pizza box model
I only looked at both briefly, and not have any detailed info at this
time.
I can get matching monitors, but don't think there is a keyboard/mouse
available. I was wondering if you can power them up
w/o keyboard/mouse, just box and monitor to verify basic operation,
whether dead or alive.
Gary Hildebrand
St. Joseph, MO
11 Oct
11 Oct
6:01 p.m.
On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote:
I have the possibility to pick up the following:
Sun 600-2575-06 : 10" square by about 4" tall. Has drive and a whole
lot of memory . . . .
Sounds like an IPX, IPC or LX - I'll have to look at mine to see what
model # it has on it. Either way, there should be a tag with the model on
the front (Unless it has fallen off or something). It's the "Lunch Box"
style of case.
Sun Sparc Station 1 Model 147 p/n 608-2217-01 :
15" square by about 3"
tall. Guess this is the pizza box model
I can get matching monitors, but don't think there is a keyboard/mouse
available. I was wondering if you can power them up
w/o keyboard/mouse, just box and monitor to verify basic operation,
whether dead or alive.
You can hook up a serial terminal to either (using port "A"), but if
you're going to do that to the Lunch Box style one, you'll need a DIN-8 to
DB-25 adaptor. Fortunately, one from a MAC will work just fine. Also,
don't forget about putting a null modem in line with it.
If you don't have a keyboard connected, the Sparc will default to the
serial port, so you probably won't be able to see anything of use on the
monitor.
--
"This fucking university has shown time and time again that it is
completely fucking incompetent when it comes to employing technology"
-- Anonymous
http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif
6:45 p.m.
On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote:
The only reference turned up in Google for that number is in association
with a Sparc IPC. Nice little Unix box; NetBSD ran like a dream on the
one I had. The battery backed NVRAM can be problematic if the battery
is dead. There's an excellent FAQ on this which you might find useful:
http://www.squirrel.com/squirrel/sun-nvram-hostid.faq.html
-brian.
On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote:
I have the
possibility to pick up the following:
Sun 600-2575-06 : 10" square by about 4" tall. Has drive and a whole
lot of memory . . . .
Sounds like an IPX, IPC or LX - I'll have to look at mine to see what
model # it has on it. Either way, there should be a tag with the model on
the front (Unless it has fallen off or something). It's the "Lunch Box"
style of case.
7:53 p.m.
Patrick Finnegan wrote:
Sounds like an IPX, IPC or LX - I'll have to look
at mine to see what
model # it has on it. Either way, there should be a tag with the model on
the front (Unless it has fallen off or something). It's the "Lunch Box"
style of case
Well, that got me closer to home. It is an IPC and looks like it isn't
really worth the time and effort. Just wonering how well they run Linux
with X. If I can find a keyboard and mouse, I may pick it up if it is
really cheap. I'm guesstimating it had 8 of the 12 memory banks filled,
so that has to be either 8 meg or 32.
Looks like a really low grade Sun, with the usual killer gfx output.
Gary Hildebrand
St. Joseph, MO
8:10 p.m.
From: Gary Hildebrand
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 12:51 AM
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Sun Sparc ID
Patrick Finnegan wrote:
On a Sun4c system like the IPC, the canonical wisdom is to avoid Linux
because of performance issues related to problems in the memory management
code. The better bet is NetBSD (go with 1.5.3) or OpenBSD.
Sounds like an IPX, IPC or LX - I'll have to
look at mine to see what
model # it has on it. Either way, there should be a tag with
the model on
the front (Unless it has fallen off or
something). It's the "Lunch Box"
style of case
Well, that got me closer to home. It is an IPC and looks like it isn't
really worth the time and effort. Just wonering how well they run Linux
with X. Looks like a really low grade Sun, with the usual
killer gfx output.
IIRC, IPCs had mono onboard video.
<<<john>>>
12 Oct
12 Oct
6:43 a.m.
--- John Ruschmeyer <jruschme(a)netzero.net> wrote:
Agreed. Linux on sun4c is a *dog* (I tried to install Suse on a 1+)
On a 32MB machine, Solaris 2.5.1 runs faster.
Yes. A BW2 frame buffer. CG3s (basic Sun video) and CG6s (mildly
accelerated) are inexpensive to free. They are both 8-bit. You
probably don't want to deal with 24-bit graphics on hardware that old.
It's slow as molasses in January, but it does exist.
If the IPC was free and you had a burning desire to play with a SPARC,
by all means go for it. For people who want to learn Solaris (friends
who are looking to enhance their career opportunities), I'm recommending
OT hardware - SPARC5, Ultra 1/170e, etc. To put prices into perspective,
I picked up an as-is SPARC 5/110 at Dayton for $40, with 3 x 32MB (the
cheap bastards), 5 x 8MB, no disk, drive sled, 100BaseTX/Wide SCSI
and a dead PSU. Obviously, I paid too much, but I did get a couple of
$10 DIMMs, a sled, a 100BaseTX card, and a spare motherboard for my
troubles. I would not pay anywhere near half that for sun4c hardware.
-ethan
__________________________________________________
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Well, that got
me closer to home. It is an IPC and looks like it isn't
really worth the time and effort. Just wonering how well they run
Linux with X.
On a Sun4c system like the IPC, the canonical wisdom is to avoid Linux
because of performance issues related to problems in the memory
management code. The better bet is NetBSD (go with 1.5.3) or OpenBSD. Looks like a
really low grade Sun, with the usual killer gfx output.
IIRC, IPCs had mono onboard video.
7:50 a.m.
Ethan Dicks wrote:
Okay, I'll explain that to the present owner. I looked at e-greed and
they were commanding <$10. This one may have another frame buffer card,
as there are two of those 13W3 connectors on the back.
Gary HIldebrand
St. Joseph, MO
IIRC, IPCs had
mono onboard video.
Yes. A BW2 frame buffer. CG3s (basic Sun video) and CG6s (mildly
accelerated) are inexpensive to free. They are both 8-bit. You
probably don't want to deal with 24-bit graphics on hardware that old.
It's slow as molasses in January, but it does exist.
If the IPC was free and you had a burning desire to play with a SPARC,
by all means go for it. For people who want to learn Solaris (friends
who are looking to enhance their career opportunities), I'm recommending
OT hardware - SPARC5, Ultra 1/170e, etc. To put prices into perspective,
I picked up an as-is SPARC 5/110 at Dayton for $40, with 3 x 32MB (the
cheap bastards), 5 x 8MB, no disk, drive sled, 100BaseTX/Wide SCSI
and a dead PSU. Obviously, I paid too much, but I did get a couple of
$10 DIMMs, a sled, a 100BaseTX card, and a spare motherboard for my
troubles. I would not pay anywhere near half that for sun4c hardware.
-ethan 
8:32 a.m.
--- John Ruschmeyer <jruschme(a)netzero.net>
wrote:
Agreed. Linux on sun4c is a *dog* (I tried to install Suse on a 1+)
On a 32MB machine, Solaris 2.5.1 runs faster.
OpenBSD is likely to be a good choice. I've got a SparcBook 3GS that I
accidentally trashed the Solaris install on (of course I don't have a copy
of Tadpole's Solaris 2.5.1). I couldn't believe how snappy OpenBSD fells
on it!
Well,
that got me closer to home. It is an IPC and looks like it isn't
really worth the time and effort. Just wonering how well they run
Linux with X.
On a Sun4c system like the IPC, the canonical wisdom is to avoid Linux
because of performance issues related to problems in the memory
management code. The better bet is NetBSD (go with 1.5.3) or OpenBSD. accelerated) are inexpensive to free. They are both
8-bit. You
probably don't want to deal with 24-bit graphics on hardware that old.
It's slow as molasses in January, but it does exist.
If you want 24-Bit graphics, connecting over the net might be the best
answer. That's how I get it for my Sparc 20 and VMS systems.
If the IPC was free and you had a burning desire to
play with a SPARC,
by all means go for it. For people who want to learn Solaris (friends
who are looking to enhance their career opportunities), I'm recommending
OT hardware - SPARC5, Ultra 1/170e, etc. To put prices into perspective,
Personally I only recommend Sparc 5's for OpenBSD (they're single processor
systems and OpenBSD will only run on single processor Sparc's). For
Solaris I'd recommend Sparc 10's and 20's as it's getting to where
they're
almost free, or if you either get lucky or are willing to spend a little go
for an Ultra 1, 2 or 5. If you get an Ultra 1, try and get one of the E's.
Now all this talk of Sparc's reminds me of what I was meaning to work on
this morning... Building the second Sparc 20/712 I just finished
collecting the parts for :^)
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
12:49 p.m.
New subject: Sun clones, was Re: Sun Sparc ID
I see people on the list understand these little pizza-box machines.
I'll have to confess to total ignorance of
the Sun workstations (having been a Domain OS user), but while removing
some test equipment that had been left behind when a large company
moved, I grabbed the following Sun clones:
(they need homes, as the space they are taking up is worth more to me
than they are...)
Axil 311, loaded.
TI SuperSPARC TMS390 CPU, one ST31200N HDD with 2 drive sleds, floppy, 8
slots for 168(?) pin simms, 7 simms installed. S-bus cards include an
Antares Microsystems SCSI/TWP Ethernet II board, an Aurora Technologies
400S multi-port serial I/O, and a color video board with LSI Logic SPARC
SGX video chip.
Axil 320, no so loaded, but interesting.
TI SuperSPARC TMS390 CPU with TMS390 cache controller, one ST32171N HDD
with 2 drive sleds, floppy, 8 slots for 168(?) pin simms with 2 SEC
KMM3144C400BS-6ES simms installed. S-bus cards include Antares
Microsystems 10base-T Ethernet, and an Axil Workstations color video
board with a SunGX video chip.
The motherboard on the 320 is interesting, the simm slots have
extensions for even wider simm modules. There are four of these
extensions but only 2 are populated with contacts, each adding 36
contacts to the simm slot. I've never seen a simm like this. The simm
modules installed do not use these extended contacts. The motherboard
has a sticker reading 705-0004-01 rev-50 320 W/64MB. There is also a
very large QFP chip marked Axil Computer with the number 100-0188-01
just behind the CPU daughterboard. This differs from the 311 which uses
a LSI L64860HC-40 SPARC EMC device in a ceramic BGA package in the same
location. The 311 also lacks the simm socket extensions although the
silk screen and PCB are designed to accomodate them.
I ~beleive~ I also have a single keyboard, mouse and color video cable.
No monitors.
I'm not really sure these are quite old-enough to be on topic, but after
reading that people on the list were missing power supplies, drives,
sleds, and video boards, I thought I should offer these up as parts
machines if nothing else.
These Axil machines sure appear to be mechanically identical to real Sun
pizza boxes, and I suspect that all the parts are fully interchangable
with the real McCoy. The power supplies do say Axil computer, but they
are off-shore imports so they are probably fully compatible 'clones',
but I'm guessing here.
I dunno what they are, but I know they are in the way!
13 Oct
13 Oct
5:44 a.m.
New subject: Sun clones, was Re: Sun Sparc ID
From: Bob Shannon
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 5:53 PM
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Sun clones, was Re: Sun Sparc ID
I see people on the list understand these little pizza-box machines.
I'll have to confess to total ignorance of
the Sun workstations (having been a Domain OS user), but while removing
some test equipment that had been left behind when a large company
moved, I grabbed the following Sun clones:
(they need homes, as the space they are taking up is worth more to me
than they are...)
Axil 320, no so loaded, but interesting.
The motherboard on the 320 is interesting, the simm slots have
extensions for even wider simm modules. There are four of these
extensions but only 2 are populated with contacts, each adding 36
contacts to the simm slot. I've never seen a simm like this. The simm
modules installed do not use these extended contacts.
It sounds a lot like the DIMM sockets in the Sparc 20. If so, the slots with
the extensions can accomodate three kinds of DIMMS:
- Regular Sparc 10/20/... memory DIMMS
- 4mb or 8mb VDIMM (VRAM for onboard 24-bit framebuffer)
- 2mv NVRAM DIMM used by the Prestoserve software
I'm curious... how much do you want for it?
<<<john>>>
5:48 a.m.
New subject: Sun clones, was Re: Sun Sparc ID
I seem to have forgotten to say where the Axil machines are located!
I'm in centeral Massachusettes, about 30 minutes north of Worcester, or
a bit over an hour west of Boston.
I've set no specific asking prices. Any offers or trades will be
welcome, but I'd really rather not have to ship these
things, as their size and shape are a very poor fit for any common boxes.
I've got nothing in them, and I don't beleive they are at all valuable.
So if someone is going to come and take them away I'll be happy to see
them go. If I have to try to pack and ship them then there is a
hasstle-factor and trades become more attractive.
You know, I really ought to get my collection into a more presentable
state, should near-by collectors want to drop in to see some of my
less-common working systems. I've been working on a sort of
spring-cleaning, well, since last spring anyway. This is why all sorts
of things I'd nearly fogotten (like lisp machines, 1801's, RM503's, etc)
have been turning up and are being offered on the list.
Maybe by next spring it might be nearly presentable!
15 Oct
15 Oct
4:36 a.m.
On 10/11/02, Patrick Finnegan scribbled:
On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote:
:
I have the possibility to pick up the following:
Sun 600-2575-06 : 10" square by about 4" tall. Has drive and a whole
lot of memory . . . .
Sounds like an IPX, IPC or LX - I'll have to look at mine to see what
model # it has on it...
You can hook up a serial terminal to either (using port "A"), but if
you're going to do that to the Lunch Box style one, you'll need a DIN-8 to
DB-25 adaptor. Fortunately, one from a MAC will work just fine. Also,
don't forget about putting a null modem in line with it.
The SparcStation LX does have a DB-25 serial port on it. It's the
2 port combination version. I hooked mine up to a VT520 using a DEC
H8571-E DB25-MMJ adaptor.
BTW, I just noticed, my VT520 can have up to 4 sessions, but it
has only 3 serial lines. I assume it could use the printer port for the
4th session?
--
--- David A. Woyciesjes
--- C & IS Support Specialist
--- Yale University Press
--- (203) 432-0953
--- ICQ # - 905818
11 Oct
11 Oct
7:19 p.m.
--- Gary Hildebrand <ghldbrd(a)ccp.com> wrote:
I have the possibility to pick up the following:
Sun 600-2575-06 : 10" square by about 4" tall. Has drive and a whole
lot of memory . . . .
Don't recognize that number. 10"x10"x4" sounds like an
IPC/IPX/LX/Classic
enclosure. IPCs and IPXs are sun4c architecture (eqiv to SPARC 1+ and
SPARC 2, respectively), the LX and Classic are sun4m and can run Solaris
8 and 9 (with enough parity 72pin SIMMs - 64MB at least to run the
installer).
Sun Sparc Station 1 Model 147 p/n 608-2217-01 :
15" square by about 3"
tall. Guess this is the pizza box model
Sun 4c, runs Linux, SunOS, Solaris (poorly) - 12MHz? original SPARC
processor. Like an IPC or SPARC 1+, but not as fast. Uses 30 pin
parity memory. May not like 3 chip PC SIMMs. Prefers 9 chip SIMMs.
Can take 1MB, probably takes 4MB (mine did).
I only looked at both briefly, and not have any
detailed info at this
time.
s'ok...
I can get matching monitors, but don't think there
is a keyboard/mouse
available. I was wondering if you can power them up
w/o keyboard/mouse, just box and monitor to verify basic operation,
whether dead or alive.
Yes. You can power any of them up with a terminal on the correct
serial port (can't remember A vs B and can't easily look up at the
moment). Default is 9600 baud, probably 8n1. It _is_ possible for the
EEPROM settings to look for a keyboard/framebuffer only, but typical
settings are to use framebuffer if a keyboard is found, or else use the
serial port for a serial console.
Most sun4c machines (SPARC 1, 1+, 2, IPC, IPX, ELC...) have old enough
clock batteries that they are dead. The "problem" is that the system
ID and the ethernet address are in the battery-backed-up SRAM. There
is a magical bar code and alpha-numeric code on the lid that only Sun
can reverse into a system ID (which is an 8-bit machine-type code plus
the lower 24 bits of the ethernet address).
The Suns-at-Home list just posted a Fourth command to enter at the "OK"
ROM prompt that converts an ELC's (and maybe one other model's) code back
into a 24-bit number (treat the chars as a Base-24 number and subtract an
offset and convert to hex), but mostly, if the battery dies, the hardware
address will be FF:FF:FF:FF:FF:FF rather than 08:00:20:X:Y:Z and the
original is lost forever. If you have any router or system logs with the
old MAC address, you can copy it to a new chip.
BTW, there was apparently a mask-shrink and the new die doesn't like
to play with some ancient Suns.
At this point, sun4c machines are at the "hauled away as a nuisance"
level because of the lack of support of sun4c in recent editions of
Solaris, and the max memory is 64MB except for the SPARC 2 which can
take 128MB with a rare and expensive add-in board.
I'll be glad to answer what I can, but in the meantime, here are a couple
of key URLs for new or potential Sun owners...
http://www.squirrel.com/squirrel/sun-nvram-hostid.faq.html
(how to recover from a dead NVRAM)
http://www.sunhelp.org/
(general help)
-ethan
__________________________________________________
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Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
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12 Oct
12 Oct
10:24 a.m.
On 11 Oct, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Sun 4c, runs Linux, SunOS, Solaris (poorly) -
NetBSD and OpenBSD. I run NetBSD in the 1.3 / 1.4 days on a 64 MB SS1+
with the double slot CGSIX. Nice machine. The case design is IMHO the
nicest I have seen up to this time. (And I have lots of old *ix
workstations.) As already stated Linux does not run well on sun4c
machines due to MMU issues.
12MHz?
SS1 = 20 MHz
SS1+ = 25 MHz
SS2 = 40MHz
IPC = 25 MHz, on board mono FB
IPX = 40MHz, CGSIX on board 8 bit color FB
The slowest SPARC was the 4/110 with 14.28 MHz.
original SPARC processor.
SPARC V7. The first
SPARC version that Sun used in products. AFAIK
there where some academical predecessors.
Uses 30 pin parity memory. May not like 3 chip PC
SIMMs.
May depend on the SIMMs / RAM chips and the refresh cycles they need.
My SS1+ was happy with 3 chip SIMMs.
Prefers 9 chip SIMMs. Can take 1MB, probably takes 4MB
(mine did).
All SPARCstations should be able to take 4 MB SIMMs as the SS1 can take
them. (According to the sun.hardware.FAQ file.)
If you have any router or system logs with the
old MAC address, you can copy it to a new chip.
I prefere to do some surgery to
attach a new battery. Much cheaper.
(And I get more geek points for it. ;-) )
--
tschuess,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz
7946
days inactive
7950
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13 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
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bshannon＠tiac.net -
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ghldbrd＠ccp.com -
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jruschme＠netzero.net -
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