25 Nov
1998
25 Nov
'98
2:44 p.m.
The basic elf was an 8bit address only design. The high order bites were
not latched.
It's memory was 256bytes (2101s) and an optional 32byte fuse prom. When
the prom was enabled it overlayed the first 32 bytes. The upper address
bytes were meaningless as no logic saw them. Very limiting design.
< > > o Circuit to ghost EPROM at $0000 until first address access at
$80
< >
< > I still would go for a better decoding - just the high bit is to short
< > Maybe there are some spare gates to use ?
<
< Wait a minute. We have been having an extensive offline conversation
< and you said that 32K of RAM and 32K of ROM is enough. It can be more o
< of either, at a cost of gates and complexity.
The VIP had 512bytes at 8000 and up to 4k at 0-0fffh/
< > Esential to be as close as possible to the original design.
<
< One vote for, several against or abstaining.
if you stay close to the quest design you cannot have much (and none of
the options) all of the options are desirable as most people added them
somehow or another.
< I'm not inclined to do dual 1852's. We you and I have discussed, the 18
< uses three ports, the switch/display is another port, leaving three lef
< over. While ports are scarce, they are no so scarce as to overshadow th
< benefits of a bit-programmable I/O port.
Use port one to select banks of ports (RCA app note). Then ports are
cheap and it only takes another latch.
ARE 1852 available and what do they offer over a simple cheap port.
< > Data transfer via Q is way more fun (Hi Alison :).
< > And since we don't need high speed transfer (2400 is ridicoulous i
< > we can do 110 :) a complete software solution is a great thing to do.
<
< I have no problems in principle with a software UART, but I do have
< something to say about the speed. 2400 baud is *not* a ridiculous
< speed, especially if you want to talk to an external device that has
< a fixed clock, say, a serial-to-LCD board. The other issue with a
< software UART is timing. If you use a hardware UART, it needs a
< crystal of a particular frequency, but the CPU does not. You can then
< "clock chip" the 1802 up (to use a Mac term) and not recode your serial
< routines.
Use the q led and EF1 for casette port. Uart for TTY/term.
< I still have yet to hear why the 1855 Multiply/Divide Unit is worth
< the real estate. Sure, it's a neat chip, but unless it has a purpose,
< I can't see including it.
Never mind finding it.
< but if I maximize the appeal of the standard I/O ports, I'm likely to se
< a few dozen. If I can't sell 60, I can't afford to invest in 100 PCBs.
And if its only the quest design I have one already. It's appeal wears
off real fast and it's was not designed with expansion in mind.
Allison
25 Nov
25 Nov
3:31 p.m.
The basic elf was an 8bit address only design. The high order bites were
not latched.
Yes.
It's memory was 256bytes (2101s) and an optional
32byte fuse prom. When
the prom was enabled it overlayed the first 32 bytes. The upper address
bytes were meaningless as no logic saw them. Very limiting design.
Yes. The point of the "99" is to use modern SRAM (among other things)
where originals are not widely available.
< > > o Circuit to ghost EPROM at $0000
until first address access at
$80
< >
What's the '$80' for?
< ... 32K of RAM and 32K of ROM is enough.
< of either, at a cost of gates and complexity.
The VIP had 512bytes at 8000 and up to 4k at 0-0fffh/
Yes. The point here was for me to affirm that I wanted to split the
memory map at $8000 between RAM space and ROM space. If someone wants
to stick in a 6116, no problem. I'm planing on wiring the RAM and ROM
sockets to take 24 and 28 pin parts.
< One vote for, several against or abstaining.
if you stay close to the quest design you cannot have much (and none of
the options) all of the options are desirable as most people added them
somehow or another.
I don't think you answered the same question I did. The "essential" thing
and the thing that there was only one vote in favor of was having the 2101
sockets IN ADDITION TO the 62256 socket. So far, only one person, Hans,
has asserted that the 2101 sockets are a good thing. I am going to deviate
from the Quest design, but in such a way that should
someone choose to,
they can leave out the advanced parts and have something that
still works.
Use port one to select banks of ports (RCA app note).
Then ports are
cheap and it only takes another latch.
I've seen the app note. It's easy enough to build, but makes all I/O more
cumbersome. I'll consider it.
ARE 1852 available and what do they offer over a
simple cheap port.
Yes they are, and between $6 and $10 each. They integrate line drivers
and some strobing functions into one chip. You can also make them either
input or output, depending on the state of one pin. Theoretically, you
could wire that pin to Q or a switch or flip flip and reverse the data
direction, but I'm positive about that.
Use the q led and EF1 for casette port. Uart for
TTY/term.
< I still have yet to hear why the 1855
Multiply/Divide Unit is worth
< the real estate. Sure, it's a neat chip, but unless it has a purpose,
< I can't see including it.
Never mind finding it.
It's still a manufactured Harris part, but I haven't done to research to
find out how much it is.
< but if I maximize the appeal of the standard I/O
ports, I'm likely to se
< a few dozen. If I can't sell 60, I can't afford to invest in 100 PCBs.
And if its only the quest design I have one already. It's appeal wears
off real fast and it's was not designed with expansion in mind.
Not everyone has a Quest Elf. I, too, want to go beyond it, but for
aesthetic reasons, I want to stay close to the original. My vision is
a compromise between what we had in 1977 and what we would have wanted
if we could have gotten it for the same price. When I built my Elf, I
followed a friend's advice and installed a wire-wrap socket for the CPU.
He rolled his own I/O ports, with relay drivers and built a robot. I
never did add anthing to mine, and quickly ran out of things to do with it.
I always wanted an Elf II, but couldn't afford the board. I wish now I
had saved for it. I got a 32k PET instead. Ah, well; choices. In any
case, I liked the slots idea on the Elf II, but I don't recall too much
materializing for it. The Elf II at the Computer Museum of America in
San Diego has a plexiglass box over the boards and all the slots full.
One was memory. I don't know about the other two. For that matter, there
weren't that many VIP boards, either. Anyone have any that they want to
move?
-ethan
9525
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