13 May
2019
13 May
'19
2:58 p.m.
On 5/13/19 11:58 AM, Grant Taylor wrote:
On May 12, 2019, at 10:17 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I don't want to get into a long discussion; I merely wanted to point out
that you're unlikely to find the term "gaming adapter" in Linux tech
docs as they're not written for that audience. And it's very likely that
something with the Debian kernel will be used on an OPZ.
--Chuck
Don't know a thing about gaming and never
wanted to--wrong generation, I guess.
Perhaps ?gaming adapter? is the wrong term for this audience.
Let me describe it as a type of switch that you plug the wired computer into, go to a
management webpage there on and give it the wireless network information.<snip>
13 May
13 May
3:47 p.m.
On 5/13/19 3:58 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
I don't want to get into a long discussion; I
merely wanted to point
out that you're unlikely to find the term "gaming adapter" in Linux
tech docs as they're not written for that audience. And it's very
likely that something with the Debian kernel will be used on an OPZ.
You /might/ not find the term in a Linux tech doc. But I'd be somewhat
surprised if you didn't.
The first eight hits on a google search for "gaming adapter" are
directly relevant.
Spend a few minutes looking at any of them and it should become clear
that any Ethernet connected computer / device / game console / printer /
etc. can be put onto wireless. Knowing that, it should be possible to
realize that any standard wired Ethernet card that Linux supports will work.
1) Connect the computer to the gaming adapter with a 1 ~ 3 foot
Ethernet cable.
2) Open a web browser to the gaming adapter's configuration interface.
3) Configure the gaming adapter for the wireless network.
4) (Maybe) reboot or obtain a new IP.
5) Use the wired computer on the wireless network via the gaming adapter.
ProTip: Plug the gaming adapter into a switch if you want multiple
wired computers to be able to use the wireless.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
6:52 p.m.
On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 5:47 PM Grant Taylor via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 5/13/19 3:58 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
<
I don't want to get into a long discussion; I
merely wanted to point
out that you're unlikely to find the term "gaming adapter" in Linux
tech docs as they're not written for that audience.
You /might/ not find the term in a Linux tech doc. But I'd be somewhat
surprised if you didn't. The first eight hits on a google search for
"gaming adapter" are
directly relevant.
I had to google "gaming adapter" because I had never heard the term
before, and I've been working with 802.11 since 2001 when all we had
was 2mbps.
I don't have a game console to hook up, and if I did, I'd run a
wire... so "gaming adapter" was a null term for me prior to this
thread.
-ethan
7:54 p.m.
On 5/13/19 7:52 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
I had to google "gaming adapter" because I
had never heard the term
before, and I've been working with 802.11 since 2001 when all we had
was 2mbps.
Maybe it's a regional term. I've heard other people use it in multiple
states here in the U.S.A.
But you did look it up, and I'm guessing you now have an idea where it
could be used, even for things other than gaming consoles.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
14 May
14 May
9:36 a.m.
On Tue, 14 May 2019 at 04:54, Grant Taylor via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Maybe it's a regional term. I've heard other people use it in multiple
states here in the U.S.A.
Hi, welcome to ClassicCmp. This is an international list with members
in dozens of countries and dozens of native languages.
You are _not_ winning any friends here. In fact the reverse is true.
But you did look it up, and I'm guessing you now
have an idea where it
could be used, even for things other than gaming consoles.
No, not really. Some kind of toy attachment. Not really relevant to
the discussion, AFAICS.
Please stop digging that hole you're in.
--
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
11:02 a.m.
On 5/14/19 10:36 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
Some kind of toy attachment. Not really relevant to
the discussion,
AFAICS.
The OP wanted a way to get a computer on the network, preferably
wireless, or wired.
The type of device I suggested very early did exactly what the OP
wanted. Said device took a wired connection and bridged it to the
wireless network. That seems very relevant to me.
I suspect the conversation would have gone differently if I didn't call
the device a "gaming adapter" and instead called it a "client ap" /
"network bridge" / "wired to wireless converter" or just about
anything
else that didn't have the word "game" in it.
I called it a "gaming adapter" ? while saying "broadly" to allow room
for interpretation / difference of opinion / etc ? because that's what
I've frequently heard them called in man different areas in the U.S.
I'm not saying that's the proper or best name. I am saying that's what
I and many people in the circles that I travel know them as. Or at
least know that multiple different devices can function as a "gaming
adapter".
I was taken aback at some of the responses that I perceived as "I don't
have anything to do with gaming and anything related gaming can't
possibly solve my problem or fulfill my need". This is particularly
surprising because I'm used to the cctalk community being open minded
and realizing that the exact same thing, or different things that do the
same function can go by many different names / descriptions. Further, I
think many in the cctalk community are likely known among their friends
for taking something and using it for something completely tangential to
it's original purpose.
I am thankful that it seems like there's been nothing more than ruffled
feathers. I'm grateful that we have all been adults and not restored to
name calling or mud slinging.
I have found this conversation to be eye opening in a number of
different ways. I knew, but have seen confirmation in the thread, that
different people know things as different names, and describe things
based on what they know. More power to them. I've also expanded my
working definitions of things.
I still maintain that the device that connects a device with a wired
Ethernet connection to a Wireless network is relevant to the discussion.
I and many people I talk to classify that device as a "gaming adapter."
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
11:16 a.m.
On Tue, 14 May 2019 at 20:02, Grant Taylor via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
The OP wanted a way to get a computer on the network, preferably
wireless, or wired.
No, not really. The OP was trying to get wifi working on Win98. That's
not the same thing.
You jumped to a conclusion.
Then, you declared, rudely, the OP that they should buy something, by
repeatedly, derisively, using a name that might be meaningful to
millennial gamers, but is _not_ to a bunch of old-timer high-level
techies.
Also, your idea meant going out and spending money on something new,
when this is a community of people who you could reasonably expect to
favour the approach of doing something difficult but functional with
existing tech that they already own.
You told someone who is trying to do something on a 20-25 year old OS
in order that they can connect to a 40 year old OS, that they should
be buying a peripheral for a games console.
The type of device I suggested
[1] You did not "suggest". You hectored, rudely.
very early did exactly what the OP
wanted.
[2] You did not _explain_ that. You just repeated some buzzword phrase
nobody else here knows.
Said device took a wired connection and bridged it to
the
wireless network. That seems very relevant to me.
[3] You didn't explain that, either.
I suspect the conversation would have gone differently
if I didn't call
the device a "gaming adapter" and instead called it a "client ap" /
"network bridge" / "wired to wireless converter" or just about
anything
else that didn't have the word "game" in it.
You mean if you addressed the OP and the rest of us as competent
adults instead of poking fun?
Shock horror, yeah, that might have worked better.
I called it a "gaming adapter" ? while
saying "broadly" to allow room
for interpretation / difference of opinion / etc ? because that's what
I've frequently heard them called in man different areas in the U.S.
WE ARE NOT ALL AMERICAN.
I'm not saying that's the proper or best name.
Yeah you were.
I was taken aback at some of the responses that I
perceived as "I don't
have anything to do with gaming and anything related gaming can't
possibly solve my problem or fulfill my need". This is particularly
surprising because I'm used to the cctalk community being open minded
They are, until someone comes along and starts implying they are
stupid, which is what you did.
I have found this conversation to be eye opening in a
number of
different ways. I knew, but have seen confirmation in the thread, that
different people know things as different names, and describe things
based on what they know. More power to them. I've also expanded my
working definitions of things.
Good. Have you worked out _why_ people were upset with you? Have you
worked out what you did and how not to do it again? Have you decided
to change?
Look, *I* am someone who has, justly, been told off for being rude and
dismissive here. I very much fear that I have caused people to quit
the list, and I bitterly regret that.
But I have tried hard to *learn* from that, and I do not want to do it again.
Whereas you seem to feel that you were in the right all along and
we've overreacted.
I think you should reconsider and try to use this as a learning experience.
--
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
11:58 a.m.
On 5/14/19 12:16 PM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
No, not really. The OP was trying to get wifi working
on Win98. That's
not the same thing.
The letter of what the OP wanted was WiFi. I took the spirit of what
the OP wanted was network.
You jumped to a conclusion.
No I did not.
I responded to comment where someone else said "you may want to consider
? using a cheap wifi-equipped micro as a network bridge".
I stated "IMHO the OPZ would be functioning as what I think are commonly
called 'gaming adapters'. It functions as the wireless client to
connect the wired Ethernet client." The key points being:
- "IMHO" meaning in my humble opinion
- "functioning as" meaning doing the same / similar thing as
- "what I /think/" as in what I believe but could be wrong about
- "commonly called" as in not always
- "it functions as a wireless client to connect the wired Ethernet
client." as in it's a way to connect a wired only device to a wireless
network.
Then, you declared, rudely, the OP that they should
buy something,
How does "OPZ would be functioning as" translate to the OP should buy
something?
by repeatedly, derisively, using a name that might be
meaningful to
millennial gamers,
Many of the people in my community are decidedly outside of the
millennial gamers group and know what a gaming adapter is.
I have no idea what age range people on this mailing list are?I honestly
don't care?but I strongly suspect that more people now know what a
gaming adapter is than did so before the start of this thread.
but is _not_ to a bunch of old-timer high-level
techies.
Please don't conflate age with level of techies.
I've worked with all four combinations of the binary young / old vs
techie / non-techie.
Also, your idea meant going out and spending money on
something new,
No, it did not.
when this is a community of people who you could
reasonably expect to
favour the approach of doing something difficult but functional with
existing tech that they already own.
That's one of the reasons that I enjoy this community. I re-use things
for different purposes all the time. I enjoy seeing how others solve
their problems.
You told someone who is trying to do something on a
20-25 year old OS
in order that they can connect to a 40 year old OS, that they should be
buying a peripheral for a games console.
No I did not.
[1] You did not "suggest". You hectored,
rudely.
I disagree.
I was not intend to be rude. I apologize to anyone that thought I was rude.
[2] You did not _explain_ that. You just repeated some
buzzword phrase
nobody else here knows.
I disagree.
My original comment stated "It functions as the wireless client to
connect the wired Ethernet client."
[3] You didn't explain that, either.
See above.
You mean if you addressed the OP and the rest of us as
competent adults
instead of poking fun?
I continue to believe that I have addressed everyone in this thread as
competent adults.
I did not intentionally try to poke fun at anyone.
Believe me, when I say that I'm much more of an ass hole if I want to be
and try to poke at someone.
Shock horror, yeah, that might have worked better.
WE ARE NOT ALL AMERICAN.
What does American have to do with this?
Are you implying that American ~> U.S. English dialect is different than
other English dialects around the world and that those differences were
part of a breakdown in communications?
Yeah you were.
No, I was not. See the bullet points above.
They are, until someone comes along and starts
implying they are stupid,
which is what you did.
How did I imply that anyone is stupid?
I apologize if I did so. That was certainly not my intent.
Good. Have you worked out _why_ people were upset with
you?
No.
Have you worked out what you did and how not to do it
again?
No.
The only thing that I wish I had done differently was not used the
phrase "gaming adapter". I see no problems with anything else that I've
done.
Have you decided to change?
Not yet.
I'm still open to feedback & critique.
Look, *I* am someone who has, justly, been told off
for being rude and
dismissive here. I very much fear that I have caused people to quit the
list, and I bitterly regret that.
I think some of your comments have been curt. But I don't consider
"curt" to be "rude".
But I have tried hard to *learn* from that, and I do
not want to do
it again.
Good for you.
Whereas you seem to feel that you were in the right
all along and we've
overreacted.
I'm not saying I am in the right. I am saying that I don't think I'm in
the wrong.
To me, there is a relatively neutral state in the middle, which is where
I think I am.
I think you should reconsider and try to use this as a
learning
experience.
I try to learn from things that I experience daily. I think most people
do too.
There is a reason that I'm trying to defuse what I am currently chalking
up to miscommunication based on a number of misunderstandings on
multiple people's part. I'm trying to turn this into a constructive
conversation to learn from and avoid this type of issue in the future.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
12:04 p.m.
Perhaps this discussion would be a good candidate for private email?
On May 14, 2019 at 1:58 PM Grant Taylor via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 5/14/19 12:16 PM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away." --? Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"The names of global variables should start with? ? // "? --?https://isocpp.org
No, not really. The OP was trying to get wifi
working on Win98. That's
not the same thing.
The letter of what the OP wanted was WiFi. I took the spirit of what
the OP wanted was network.
You jumped to a conclusion.
No I did not.
I responded to comment where someone else said "you may want to consider
? using a cheap wifi-equipped micro as a network bridge".
I stated "IMHO the OPZ would be functioning as what I think are commonly
called 'gaming adapters'. It functions as the wireless client to
connect the wired Ethernet client." The key points being:
- "IMHO" meaning in my humble opinion - "functioning as" meaning
doing the same / similar thing as - "what I /think/" as in what I believe but
could be wrong about - "commonly called" as in not always - "it functions
as a wireless client to connect the wired Ethernet
client." as in it's a way to connect a wired only device to a wireless
network.
Then, you declared, rudely, the OP that they
should buy something,
How does "OPZ would be functioning as" translate to the OP should buy
something?
by repeatedly, derisively, using a name that
might be meaningful to
millennial gamers,
Many of the people in my community are decidedly outside of the
millennial gamers group and know what a gaming adapter is.
I have no idea what age range people on this mailing list are?I honestly
don't care?but I strongly suspect that more people now know what a
gaming adapter is than did so before the start of this thread.
but is _not_ to a bunch of old-timer high-level
techies.
Please don't conflate age with level of techies.
I've worked with all four combinations of the binary young / old vs
techie / non-techie.
Also, your idea meant going out and spending
money on something new,
No, it did not.
when this is a community of people who you could
reasonably expect to
favour the approach of doing something difficult but functional with
existing tech that they already own.
That's one of the reasons that I enjoy this community. I re-use things
for different purposes all the time. I enjoy seeing how others solve
their problems.
You told someone who is trying to do something on
a 20-25 year old OS
in order that they can connect to a 40 year old OS, that they should be
buying a peripheral for a games console.
No I did not.
[1] You did not "suggest". You
hectored, rudely.
I disagree.
I was not intend to be rude. I apologize to anyone that thought I was rude.
[2] You did not _explain_ that. You just repeated
some buzzword phrase
nobody else here knows.
I disagree.
My original comment stated "It functions as the wireless client to
connect the wired Ethernet client."
[3] You didn't explain that, either.
See above.
You mean if you addressed the OP and the rest of
us as competent adults
instead of poking fun?
I continue to believe that I have addressed everyone in this thread as
competent adults.
I did not intentionally try to poke fun at anyone.
Believe me, when I say that I'm much more of an ass hole if I want to be
and try to poke at someone.
Shock horror, yeah, that might have worked
better.
WE ARE NOT ALL AMERICAN.
What does American have to do with this?
Are you implying that American ~> U.S. English dialect is different than
other English dialects around the world and that those differences were
part of a breakdown in communications?
Yeah you were.
No, I was not. See the bullet points above.
They are, until someone comes along and starts
implying they are stupid,
which is what you did.
How did I imply that anyone is stupid?
I apologize if I did so. That was certainly not my intent.
Good. Have you worked out _why_ people were upset
with you?
No.
Have you worked out what you did and how not to
do it again?
No.
The only thing that I wish I had done differently was not used the
phrase "gaming adapter". I see no problems with anything else that I've
done.
Have you decided to change?
Not yet.
I'm still open to feedback & critique.
Look, *I* am someone who has, justly, been told
off for being rude and
dismissive here. I very much fear that I have caused people to quit the
list, and I bitterly regret that.
I think some of your comments have been curt. But I don't consider
"curt" to be "rude".
But I have tried hard to *learn* from that, and I
do not want to do
it again.
Good for you.
Whereas you seem to feel that you were in the
right all along and we've
overreacted.
I'm not saying I am in the right. I am saying that I don't think I'm in
the wrong.
To me, there is a relatively neutral state in the middle, which is where
I think I am.
I think you should reconsider and try to use this
as a learning
experience.
I try to learn from things that I experience daily. I think most people
do too.
There is a reason that I'm trying to defuse what I am currently chalking
up to miscommunication based on a number of misunderstandings on
multiple people's part. I'm trying to turn this into a constructive
conversation to learn from and avoid this type of issue in the future.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die 
2:26 a.m.
On 13/05/2019 23:47, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote:
On 5/13/19 3:58 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
Hmm. I've been a network manager for over 20 years, supporting tens of
thousands of staff and students at a university where there's a lot of
gaming activity and I've never heard the term gaming adapter before.
The term could mean many things...
I don't want to get into a long discussion; I
merely wanted to point
out that you're unlikely to find the term "gaming adapter" in Linux
tech docs as they're not written for that audience.
You /might/ not find the term in a Linux tech doc.? But I'd be somewhat
surprised if you didn't. The first eight hits on a google search for
"gaming adapter" are
directly relevant.
The first few hits I get refer to a USB device to connect to a console
to give it WiFi capability. That's not what Charles described, and what
you referred to, which is a network bridge.
--
Pete
Pete Turnbull
2052
days inactive
2053
days old
9 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
cclist＠sydex.com -
cctalk＠gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
lproven＠gmail.com -
pete＠dunnington.plus.com -
wrcooke＠wrcooke.net