10 Mar
2000
10 Mar
'00
1:58 a.m.
Another thing to keep in mind about these jobs is that not only is the
summer vacation long, but there are plenty of days without kids in the
building, when most teachers go skiing or golfing, or hot-tubbing, and the
workday for most of them is less than 6 hours.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com>
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Date: Friday, March 10, 2000 8:13 AM
Subject: OT: Re: languages
At 04:20 PM 3/9/00 -0500, Carlos Murillo-Sanchez
wrote:
What other profession is there with an entry
salary of
about $28K, and a top salary (after 20+ years) of less than $70K ?
Actually, there are lots of jobs like that. Also, have you
forgotten the nice long summer vacation?
- John
10 Mar
10 Mar
4:38 a.m.
New subject: languages (Teachers)
On Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 08:58:43AM -0700, Richard Erlacher wrote:
Another thing to keep in mind about these jobs is that
not only is the
summer vacation long, but there are plenty of days without kids in the
building, when most teachers go skiing or golfing, or hot-tubbing, and the
workday for most of them is less than 6 hours.
Dick
I think it's extremely unfair to label all teachers like this.
You make them sound lazy. I know only one highschool teacher today,
but I do know he works his ass off. He does NOT take the summer off,
he takes summer teaching contracts to make ends meet. After teaching
his classes he has, further courses of his own to attend, papers to
grade, lesson plans to work out, staff meetings, conference meetings,
parent-teacher meetings, and inbetween tons of shit none of us
would want to deal with dumped on him. Sometimes he doesn't get
home until 11:00 -- and neither do I, but at least I get paid for it.
I attended public school between 1979 and 1992, in both California
and Connecticut. We moved around frequently, and I was in 8
different schools during that time. That's a lot of different school
systems, and a lot of different teachers. Yes, I had some that were
merely doing their job, not going the extra mile. And I think I
can probably put my finger on exactly one who I would honestly call
lazy (everybody has a teacher horror story to tell). But those who
stand out in my mind were the genuine heros. They were IN to what
they did. They LOVED the kids. They latched on to us and energized
us and really taught us. They made us solve problems, they made us
work together, they made us look forward to their classes every day.
They had a passion for what they did, and God bless them for it.
I can't think of a more honorable profession.
-Seth
5:23 a.m.
New subject: languages (Teachers)
I agree. My neighbor is a HS teacher, History/Political Science and JV
Basketball. He has a PhD, works 10 hours a day, and doesn't take summers
off. Many of the days when kids have the day off, he's in school. If that
weren't enough, he's involved in a home-schooling program for families in
poor areas who want a better education for their children than the
under-funded public schools provide, visiting 4 families once a week each.
In my experience, he's not much of an exception, but rather just above
average. With a few exceptions, the teachers I had from kindergarten
through two years in community college were dedicated, caring, intelligent
professionals. Heroes for many children who's lives they've changed.
I've held my tongue thus far about these blanket statements which have
been thrown out haphazardly with no specific factual references to qualify
them, but this is ridiculous. I don't know what the economic situation is
in your part of the country, but "most teachers" that I know can't afford
ski-trips, country club memberships, or hot tubs. Certainly not at the
rate that similarly-educated persons in other professions seem to be able
to.
Please think before you make inflammatory statements like this, or at
least bring some kind of solid evidence to the table with you.
Aaron
On Fri, 10 Mar 2000, sjm wrote:
On Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 08:58:43AM -0700, Richard Erlacher wrote:
Another thing to keep in mind about these jobs is
that not only is the
summer vacation long, but there are plenty of days without kids in the
building, when most teachers go skiing or golfing, or hot-tubbing, and the
workday for most of them is less than 6 hours.
Dick
I think it's extremely unfair to label all teachers like this.
You make them sound lazy. I know only one highschool teacher today,
but I do know he works his ass off. He does NOT take the summer off,
he takes summer teaching contracts to make ends meet. After teaching
his classes he has, further courses of his own to attend, papers to
grade, lesson plans to work out, staff meetings, conference meetings,
parent-teacher meetings, and inbetween tons of shit none of us
would want to deal with dumped on him. Sometimes he doesn't get
home until 11:00 -- and neither do I, but at least I get paid for it.
I attended public school between 1979 and 1992, in both California
and Connecticut. We moved around frequently, and I was in 8
different schools during that time. That's a lot of different school
systems, and a lot of different teachers. Yes, I had some that were
merely doing their job, not going the extra mile. And I think I
can probably put my finger on exactly one who I would honestly call
lazy (everybody has a teacher horror story to tell). But those who
stand out in my mind were the genuine heros. They were IN to what
they did. They LOVED the kids. They latched on to us and energized
us and really taught us. They made us solve problems, they made us
work together, they made us look forward to their classes every day.
They had a passion for what they did, and God bless them for it.
I can't think of a more honorable profession.
-Seth
5:24 a.m.
New subject: languages (Teachers)
>> On Fri, 10 Mar 2000, sjm wrote:
>>> lazy (everybody has a teacher horror story to tell). But those who
>>> stand out in my mind were the genuine heros. They were IN to what
>>> they did. They LOVED the kids. They latched on to us and energized
>>> us and really taught us. They made us solve problems, they made us
Yup... Most are not in it for the money.
George Rachor
=========================================================
George L. Rachor Jr. george(a)racsys.rt.rain.com
Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com
United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX
6:10 a.m.
New subject: languages (Teachers)
On Fri, 10 Mar 2000, George Rachor wrote:
>>> On Fri, 10 Mar 2000, sjm wrote:
>>>> lazy (everybody has a teacher horror story to tell). But those who
>>>> stand out in my mind were the genuine heros. They were IN to what
>>>> they did. They LOVED the kids. They latched on to us and energized
>>>> us and really taught us. They made us solve problems, they made us
True.
My father was a construction contractor and used to have several teachers
that worked for him during the busy summer months so they could make
what my mother did as a LPN (2years college).
When I left DEC I looked at teaching, I needed a masters in teaching over
any technical degrees and could expect to make 10-20thousand less a year.
It's pretty sad that that the average teacher has 4-6 years of college
education and makes less than the average person with that kind of time in
a technical degreee.
Allison
6:14 a.m.
New subject: languages (Teachers)
Bravo Seth,
Dick's comment just went too far. my neighbor is an Art teacher in a
local High School and believe me---if she's not at work, she's either
grading papers, planning next weeks work or staying after class to work
with other kids. SOME are really dedicated to the profession!
sjm wrote:
On Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 08:58:43AM -0700, Richard Erlacher wrote:
Another thing to keep in mind about these jobs is
that not only is the
summer vacation long, but there are plenty of days without kids in the
building, when most teachers go skiing or golfing, or hot-tubbing, and the
workday for most of them is less than 6 hours.
Dick
I think it's extremely unfair to label all teachers like this.
You make them sound lazy. I know only one highschool teacher today,
but I do know he works his ass off. He does NOT take the summer off,
he takes summer teaching contracts to make ends meet. After teaching
his classes he has, further courses of his own to attend, papers to
grade, lesson plans to work out, staff meetings, conference meetings,
parent-teacher meetings, and inbetween tons of shit none of us
would want to deal with dumped on him. Sometimes he doesn't get
home until 11:00 -- and neither do I, but at least I get paid for it.
I attended public school between 1979 and 1992, in both California
and Connecticut. We moved around frequently, and I was in 8
different schools during that time. That's a lot of different school
systems, and a lot of different teachers. Yes, I had some that were
merely doing their job, not going the extra mile. And I think I
can probably put my finger on exactly one who I would honestly call
lazy (everybody has a teacher horror story to tell). But those who
stand out in my mind were the genuine heros. They were IN to what
they did. They LOVED the kids. They latched on to us and energized
us and really taught us. They made us solve problems, they made us
work together, they made us look forward to their classes every day.
They had a passion for what they did, and God bless them for it.
I can't think of a more honorable profession.
-Seth 
7:01 a.m.
New subject: languages (Teachers)
My wife's a teacher, and she, too, is waaaaay overworked and wayyyy underpaid.
Actually, Dick seems to be describing the life of a Silicon Valley engineer
these days.... ;-)
-Mike
On Fri, 10 Mar 2000, Craig Smith wrote:
Bravo Seth,
Dick's comment just went too far. my neighbor is an Art teacher in a
local High School and believe me---if she's not at work, she's either
grading papers, planning next weeks work or staying after class to work
with other kids. SOME are really dedicated to the profession!
sjm wrote:
On Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 08:58:43AM -0700, Richard Erlacher wrote:
Another thing to keep in mind about these jobs is
that not only is the
summer vacation long, but there are plenty of days without kids in the
building, when most teachers go skiing or golfing, or hot-tubbing, and the
workday for most of them is less than 6 hours.
Dick
I think it's extremely unfair to label all teachers like this.
You make them sound lazy. I know only one highschool teacher today,
but I do know he works his ass off. He does NOT take the summer off,
he takes summer teaching contracts to make ends meet. After teaching
his classes he has, further courses of his own to attend, papers to
grade, lesson plans to work out, staff meetings, conference meetings,
parent-teacher meetings, and inbetween tons of shit none of us
would want to deal with dumped on him. Sometimes he doesn't get
home until 11:00 -- and neither do I, but at least I get paid for it.
I attended public school between 1979 and 1992, in both California
and Connecticut. We moved around frequently, and I was in 8
different schools during that time. That's a lot of different school
systems, and a lot of different teachers. Yes, I had some that were
merely doing their job, not going the extra mile. And I think I
can probably put my finger on exactly one who I would honestly call
lazy (everybody has a teacher horror story to tell). But those who
stand out in my mind were the genuine heros. They were IN to what
they did. They LOVED the kids. They latched on to us and energized
us and really taught us. They made us solve problems, they made us
work together, they made us look forward to their classes every day.
They had a passion for what they did, and God bless them for it.
I can't think of a more honorable profession.
-Seth 
7:06 a.m.
New subject: languages (Teachers)
sjm <sethm(a)loomcom.com> wrote:
lazy (everybody has a teacher horror story to tell).
But those who
stand out in my mind were the genuine heros. They were IN to what
they did. They LOVED the kids. They latched on to us and energized
us and really taught us. They made us solve problems, they made us
work together, they made us look forward to their classes every day.
They had a passion for what they did, and God bless them for it.
I can't think of a more honorable profession.
-Seth
Hi
While it is true that they would have to love the
kids to work for such low pay and many work vary hard
at what they do, I have myself seen some things that
I have to question. I was once asked by a friend to
help with some math homework. After looking over the
questions, I found that I couldn't answer any of them.
It wasn't that they were too hard, it was that they
were too ambiguous. After some more talking with the
student, I found that these were some of the "don't
make the student feel bad by having the wrong answer"
type questions. They were designed so that almost any
answer could be considered correct.
The problem of getting more pay has to be balance with
the quality ( not the effort or the desire ) of the
product supplied. I would hate to be a really good
teacher in todays school system. Any effort I made
to actually teach things to the students would be
immediately scorned by the rest of my peers.
IMHO
Dwight
5:18 a.m.
Not to be contrary, but...
My father is a teacher at a high school in my home town. The school says
they don't have the funding to buy textbooks for the classes they are asking
him to teach -- he's got to make it up on his own lessons. He hasn't had his
own classroom in three years. All his class preparation, test development
and grading, lesson plans and the like get done at home because he's got no
other place to do them and no time while at school. For a while he was also
teaching microbiology at the community college to make ends meet.
It's not all hot tubs and golf... :-)
Cheers,
Chris
Richard Erlacher wrote:
Another thing to keep in mind about these jobs is that
not only is the
summer vacation long, but there are plenty of days without kids in the
building, when most teachers go skiing or golfing, or hot-tubbing, and the
workday for most of them is less than 6 hours.
Dick
6:49 a.m.
Richard Erlacher wrote:
Another thing to keep in mind about these jobs is that not only is the
summer vacation long, but there are plenty of days without kids in the
building, when most teachers go skiing or golfing, or hot-tubbing, and the
workday for most of them is less than 6 hours.
Another thing about those jobs are the hours spent at home designing lesson
plans, quizes, exams, and grading same. The ratio I was told and found to be
true was about 3:1; 3 hours outside the classroom per 1 hour classroom time.
Also as in ANY profession, there are those who work for a paycheck and those
who work to accomplish something.
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