31 Mar
2013
31 Mar
'13
5:14 p.m.
6030 days ain't too shabby. :)
http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1199529
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
1 Apr
1 Apr
6:58 a.m.
On 03/31/2013 08:14 PM, geneb wrote:
6030 days ain't too shabby. :)
http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1199529
g.
Nice...
--
--- Dave Woyciesjes
--- ICQ# 905818
--- AIM - woyciesjes
--- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/
--- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/
Registered Linux user number 464583
"Computers have lots of memory but no imagination."
"The problem with troubleshooting is that trouble shoots back."
- from some guy on the internet.
11:39 p.m.
On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 4:58 PM, Dave Woyciesjes <woyciesjes at sbcglobal.net>wrote:
On 03/31/2013 08:14 PM, geneb wrote:
> 6030 days ain't too shabby. :)
>
>
http://arstechnica.com/civis/**viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1199529<http://a…
>
> g.
>
> Nice...
Indeed. 16.5 years is really something to aspire to. One of my oldest
server is almost at 6 years - 10.5 years to go (!!)
2 Apr
2 Apr
7:36 a.m.
How can anybody get amazing uptime, if the suits and contracts dismantle
"obsolete" four year old systems?
Surely it will be less than 4 years before Apple declares the current
models "obsolete", and the 13,000 iPads need to be replaced.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
7:42 a.m.
On 04/02/2013 10:36 AM, Fred Cisin wrote:
How can anybody get amazing uptime, if the suits and
contracts dismantle
"obsolete" four year old systems?
Surely it will be less than 4 years before Apple declares the current
models "obsolete", and the 13,000 iPads need to be replaced.
Smart people get the amazing uptime. Sheep, and people who work in
companies whose purchasing agents who get kickbacks from salesmen...they don't.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
8:04 a.m.
Has it had a kernel update ever? Uptime can often mean vulnerable services too.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com>
Sender: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.orgDate: Tue, 02 Apr 2013 10:42:37
To: General Discussion On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Amazing uptime...
On 04/02/2013 10:36 AM, Fred Cisin wrote:
How can anybody get amazing uptime, if the suits and
contracts dismantle
"obsolete" four year old systems?
Surely it will be less than 4 years before Apple declares the current
models "obsolete", and the 13,000 iPads need to be replaced.
Smart people get the amazing uptime. Sheep, and people who work in
companies whose purchasing agents who get kickbacks from salesmen...they don't.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
8:11 a.m.
Theoretically, yes...but the kernel is a relatively small portion of the
code, and individual services (and sometimes even device drivers, network
stacks, etc) can be patched and/or replaced at will without rebooting on most
systems.
-Dave
On 04/02/2013 11:04 AM, Sam O'nella wrote:
Has it had a kernel update ever? Uptime can often mean
vulnerable services too.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com>
Sender: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.orgDate: Tue, 02 Apr 2013 10:42:37
To: General Discussion On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Amazing uptime...
On 04/02/2013 10:36 AM, Fred Cisin wrote:
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
How can anybody get amazing uptime, if the suits
and contracts dismantle
"obsolete" four year old systems?
Surely it will be less than 4 years before Apple declares the current
models "obsolete", and the 13,000 iPads need to be replaced.
Smart people get the amazing uptime. Sheep, and people who work in
companies whose purchasing agents who get kickbacks from salesmen...they don't.
-Dave
8:33 a.m.
Were I used to work we had a Novell 4.1 server that had been up for five
plus years. I was the one who drew the short straw when in needed to be
moved.
Despite everyone's fears, it did come back up no problem. I miss Novell.
On Apr 2, 2013 4:27 PM, "Dave McGuire" <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
Theoretically, yes...but the kernel is a relatively small portion of the
code, and individual services (and sometimes even device drivers, network
stacks, etc) can be patched and/or replaced at will without rebooting on
most
systems.
-Dave
On 04/02/2013 11:04 AM, Sam O'nella wrote:
Has it had a kernel update ever? Uptime can often
mean vulnerable
services too.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com>
Sender: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.orgDate: Tue, 02 Apr 2013 10:42:37
To: General Discussion On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts<
cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and
Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Amazing uptime...
On 04/02/2013 10:36 AM, Fred Cisin wrote:
don't.
How can anybody get amazing uptime, if the suits
and contracts dismantle
"obsolete" four year old systems?
Surely it will be less than 4 years before Apple declares the current
models "obsolete", and the 13,000 iPads need to be replaced.
Smart people get the amazing uptime. Sheep, and people who work in
companies whose purchasing agents who get kickbacks from salesmen...they
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
8:45 a.m.
Does the phrase "planned obsolescence" mean anything to anybody?
________________________________
From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com>
To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, 2 April 2013, 16:11
Subject: Re: Amazing uptime...
? Theoretically, yes...but the kernel is a relatively small portion of the
code, and individual services (and sometimes even device drivers, network
stacks, etc) can be patched and/or replaced at will without rebooting on most
systems.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? -Dave
On 04/02/2013 11:04 AM, Sam O'nella wrote:
Has it had a kernel update ever? Uptime can often mean
vulnerable services too.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com>
Sender: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.orgDate: Tue, 02 Apr 2013 10:42:37
To: General Discussion On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
? <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Amazing uptime...
On 04/02/2013 10:36 AM, Fred Cisin wrote:
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
How can anybody get amazing uptime, if the suits
and contracts dismantle
"obsolete" four year old systems?
Surely it will be less than 4 years before Apple declares the current
models "obsolete", and the 13,000 iPads need to be replaced.
? Smart people get the amazing uptime.? Sheep, and people who work in
companies whose purchasing agents who get kickbacks from salesmen...they don't.
? ? ? ? ? ? -Dave
9:13 a.m.
On Apr 2, 2013, at 11:45 AM, R SMALLWOOD <rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com> wrote:
Does the phrase "planned obsolescence" mean
anything to anybody?
Don't get me started. Look at the upgrade chain for commercial Solaris these days.
What you can/can't run Solaris 10 on, Solaris 11 on, etc. But that's another
thread all on its own.
I'm an ex-HP/ArcSight guy who now does ArcSight consulting with a small firm, and we
have a lot of great customers. That said, some of those customers are using older (3-5
years old) appliance hardware which was sold by ArcSight (pre-HP.) The hardware works fine
and is sized appropriately for their needs, but HP won't support the latest software
upgrades on it, and those software upgrades are required to avoid a nasty XSS bug. So I
can't upgrade a keep a customer's system secure because they aren't running
the most recent ($$$) hardware. It doesn't help that the original hardware ArcSight
used for their appliances was Dell-based, and now being owned by HP it's kind of a
black eye for HP to keep supporting Dell-based HW.
Meanwhile I'm trying to be a good partner/VAR/trusted advisor to my customers, but the
vendor has totally put the squeeze on me. Yes, you really don't need new hardware for
your environment due to capacity issues, but you do if you want to ensure the product you
use for security monitoring is secure, you need to fork out $50k+.
9:43 a.m.
On 04/02/2013 12:13 PM, Jonathan Katz wrote:
On Apr 2, 2013, at 11:45 AM, R SMALLWOOD
<rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com> wrote:
Damn suits. This is what happens when our society allows people who
are better suited to being late-shift fast food restaurant managers, or
perhaps just bank robbers, get into upper management.
Of course it's more common than not.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Does the phrase "planned obsolescence"
mean anything to anybody?
Don't get me started. Look at the upgrade chain for commercial Solaris these days.
What you can/can't run Solaris 10 on, Solaris 11 on, etc. But that's another
thread all on its own.
I'm an ex-HP/ArcSight guy who now does ArcSight consulting with a small firm, and we
have a lot of great customers. That said, some of those customers are using older (3-5
years old) appliance hardware which was sold by ArcSight (pre-HP.) The hardware works fine
and is sized appropriately for their needs, but HP won't support the latest software
upgrades on it, and those software upgrades are required to avoid a nasty XSS bug. So I
can't upgrade a keep a customer's system secure because they aren't running
the most recent ($$$) hardware. It doesn't help that the original hardware ArcSight
used for their appliances was Dell-based, and now being owned by HP it's kind of a
black eye for HP to keep supporting Dell-based HW.
Meanwhile I'm trying to be a good partner/VAR/trusted advisor to my customers, but
the vendor has totally put the squeeze on me. Yes, you really don't need new hardware
for your environment due to capacity issues, but you do if you want to ensure the product
you use for security monitoring is secure, you need to fork out $50k+.
9:53 a.m.
On Tue, 2 Apr 2013, Dave McGuire wrote:
Damn suits. This is what happens when our society
allows people who
are better suited to being late-shift fast food restaurant managers, or
perhaps just bank robbers, get into upper management.
But, by putting them into upper management (and college administration),
we've maintained a much better class of late-shift fast food restaurant
managers and bank robbers.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
6:59 p.m.
New subject: planned obsolescence is poor engineering, too - Re: Amazing uptime...
On 02/04/13 12:43 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 04/02/2013 12:13 PM, Jonathan Katz wrote:
This should offend any engineer, who if she is any good, is well trained
in parsimony of solutions.
--Toby
On Apr 2, 2013, at 11:45 AM, R SMALLWOOD
<rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com> wrote:
Damn suits. This is what happens when our society allows people who are
better suited to being late-shift fast food restaurant managers, or
perhaps just bank robbers, get into upper management. Does the phrase "planned obsolescence"
mean anything to anybody?
Don't get me started. Look at the upgrade chain for commercial Solaris
these days. ... Yes, you
really don't need new hardware for your environment due to capacity
issues, but you do if you want to ensure the product you use for
security monitoring is secure, you need to fork out $50k+.
Of course it's more common than not.
-Dave
7:12 p.m.
New subject: planned obsolescence is poor engineering, too - Re: Amazing uptime...
On 04/02/2013 09:59 PM, Toby Thain wrote:
Damn suits. This is what happens when our society allows people who are
better suited to being late-shift fast food restaurant managers, or
perhaps just bank robbers, get into upper management.
This should offend any engineer, who if she is any good, is well trained in
parsimony of solutions.
Yes. I had an argument a few days ago with an "engineer" (who is a
salesman who apparently USED to be an engineer) who loves the fact that
people send huge HTML-laden emails around, because he SELLS STORAGE SYSTEMS.
I thought I'd vomit. But I flamed him to the waterline instead.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Does the
phrase "planned obsolescence" mean anything to anybody?
Don't get me started. Look at the upgrade chain for commercial Solaris
these days. ... Yes, you
really don't need new hardware for your environment due to capacity
issues, but you do if you want to ensure the product you use for
security monitoring is secure, you need to fork out $50k+. 
7:50 p.m.
New subject: planned obsolescence is poor engineering, too - Re: Amazing uptime...
On Tue, 2 Apr 2013, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 04/02/2013 09:59 PM, Toby Thain wrote:
This should offend any engineer, who if she is any good, is well trained in
parsimony of solutions.
Yes. I had an argument a few days ago with an "engineer" (who is a
salesman who apparently USED to be an engineer) who loves the fact that
people send huge HTML-laden emails around, because he SELLS STORAGE SYSTEMS.
I thought I'd vomit. But I flamed him to the waterline instead.
It's times like that I think it would be a really handy ability to vomit
on demand. "You make me sick! <huaggghhhh!!!> See!"
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
> Does the phrase "planned obsolescence"
mean anything to anybody?
Don't get me started. Look at the upgrade chain for commercial Solaris
these days. ... Yes, you
really don't need new hardware for your environment due to capacity
issues, but you do if you want to ensure the product you use for
security monitoring is secure, you need to fork out $50k+.
Damn suits. This is what happens when our society allows people who are
better suited to being late-shift fast food restaurant managers, or
perhaps just bank robbers, get into upper management.
8:48 p.m.
New subject: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering, too - Re: Amazing uptime...
On 02/04/13 10:50 PM, David Griffith wrote:
On Tue, 2 Apr 2013, Dave McGuire wrote:
Pretty sure there are substances that can make this happen. Just need to
keep a capsule in your pocket.
--Toby
... I had an argument a few days ago with an
"engineer" (who is a
salesman who apparently USED to be an engineer) who loves the fact that
people send huge HTML-laden emails around, because he SELLS STORAGE
SYSTEMS.
I thought I'd vomit. But I flamed him to the waterline instead.
It's times like that I think it would be a really handy ability to vomit
on demand. "You make me sick! <huaggghhhh!!!> See!"
9:55 p.m.
New subject: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering, too - Re: Amazing uptime...
On Tue, 2 Apr 2013, Toby Thain wrote:
On 02/04/13 10:50 PM, David Griffith wrote:
I can think of several, but none have the sort of instant reaction that is
required for this application. A former coworker of mine had such a
reaction to liquid Pepto-Bismol. For some reason, someone kept a bottle
of the stuff in the IT office fridge. One day he complained about
something that would be ordinarily treated with Pepto-Bismol. Someone
offered him the bottle. He politely declined and told us of his unique
reaction: swallow a tiny bit -- instant barf-o-matic. Oddly, he could
take the chewables just fine.
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
On Tue, 2 Apr 2013, Dave McGuire wrote:
Pretty sure there are substances that can make this happen. Just need to
keep a capsule in your pocket. ... I had an argument a few days ago with an
"engineer" (who is a
salesman who apparently USED to be an engineer) who loves the fact that
people send huge HTML-laden emails around, because he SELLS STORAGE
SYSTEMS.
I thought I'd vomit. But I flamed him to the waterline instead.
It's times like that I think it would be a really handy ability to vomit
on demand. "You make me sick! <huaggghhhh!!!> See!" 
10:08 p.m.
New subject: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering, too - Re: Amazing uptime...
I can think of several, but none have the sort of
instant reaction that is
required for this application.
Ipecac is very fast, in many people as close to instant as you can get.
--
Will
11:44 p.m.
New subject: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering, too - Re: Amazing uptime...
Finger down your throat seems to work well for the fashion industry
On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 1:08 AM, William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com>wrote:
--
Joseph Giliberti
InfoAge Science / History Learning Center and Museum
Get more information at http://www.infoage.org
I can think of
several, but none have the sort of instant reaction that
is
required for this application.
Ipecac is very fast, in many people as close to instant as you can get.
--
Will
3 Apr
3 Apr
2:20 p.m.
New subject: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering, too - Re: Amazing uptime...
On 4/2/13 11:44 PM, "Joe Giliberti" <starbase89 at gmail.com> wrote:
Finger down your throat seems to work well for the
fashion industry
On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 1:08 AM, William Donzelli
<wdonzelli at gmail.com>wrote:
--
Joseph Giliberti
InfoAge Science / History Learning Center and Museum
Get more information at http://www.infoage.org
OK, this is quickly becoming the weirdest thread I've seen on
ClassicCmp... this week. -- Ian
I can
think of several, but none have the sort of instant reaction
that
is
required for this application.
Ipecac is very fast, in many people as close to instant as you can get.
--
Will
2:38 p.m.
New subject: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering, too - Re: Amazing uptime...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On 03/04/13 22:20, Ian King wrote:
On 4/2/13 11:44 PM, "Joe Giliberti"
<starbase89 at gmail.com> wrote:
?and it's only Wednesday.
- --
Mateusz K.
Finger down your throat seems to work well for
the fashion
industry
On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 1:08 AM, William Donzelli
<wdonzelli at gmail.com>wrote:
-- Joseph Giliberti InfoAge Science / History Learning Center and
Museum Get more information at http://www.infoage.org
OK, this is quickly becoming the weirdest thread I've seen on
ClassicCmp... this week. -- Ian
I can
think of several, but none have the sort of instant
reaction
that is
required for this application.
Ipecac is very fast, in many people as close to instant as you
can get.
-- Will
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3:02 p.m.
New subject: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering, too - Re: Amazing uptime...
On 04/03/2013 05:20 PM, Ian King wrote:
On 4/2/13 11:44 PM, "Joe Giliberti"
<starbase89 at gmail.com> wrote:
Yeah, I was gonna say I've seen wierder. Something about Intel Macs
being worth the price we are charged for them...
--
--- Dave Woyciesjes
--- ICQ# 905818
--- AIM - woyciesjes
--- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/
--- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/
Registered Linux user number 464583
"Computers have lots of memory but no imagination."
"The problem with troubleshooting is that trouble shoots back."
- from some guy on the internet.
Finger down your throat seems to work well for
the fashion industry
On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 1:08 AM, William Donzelli
<wdonzelli at gmail.com>wrote:
OK, this is quickly becoming the weirdest thread I've seen on
ClassicCmp... this week. -- Ian
I can
think of several, but none have the sort of instant reaction
that
is
required for this application.
Ipecac is very fast, in many people as close to instant as you can get.
3:56 p.m.
New subject: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering, too - Re: Amazing uptime...
On Wed, 3 Apr 2013, Dave Woyciesjes wrote:
On 04/03/2013 05:20 PM, Ian King wrote:
Hahahahahahahahahahah *gasps* ahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Good one!
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
On 4/2/13 11:44 PM, "Joe Giliberti"
<starbase89 at gmail.com> wrote:
Yeah, I was gonna say I've seen wierder. Something about Intel Macs
being worth the price we are charged for them... Finger down your throat seems to work well for
the fashion industry
On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 1:08 AM, William Donzelli
<wdonzelli at gmail.com>wrote:
OK, this is quickly becoming the weirdest thread I've seen on
ClassicCmp... this week. -- Ian
> I can think of several, but none have the
sort of instant reaction
that
is
> required for this application.
Ipecac is very fast, in many people as close to instant as you can get.
6:25 p.m.
New subject: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering, too - Re: Amazing uptime...
geneb <geneb at deltasoft.com> wrote:
On Wed, 3 Apr 2013, Dave Woyciesjes wrote:
Yeah, I was gonna say I've seen wierder. Something about Intel Macs
being worth the price we are charged for them...
Hahahahahahahahahahah *gasps* ahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Good one!
g.
I'm guessing you recall that thread from (almost exactly) 7 years ago?
;)
--
--- Dave Woyciesjes
--- ICQ# 905818
--- AIM - woyciesjes
--- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/
--- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/Registered Linux user
number 464583
"Computers have lots of memory but no imagination."
"The problem with troubleshooting is that trouble shoots back."
- from some guy on the internet.
On 04/03/2013 05:20 PM, Ian King wrote:
> On 4/2/13 11:44 PM, "Joe Giliberti" <starbase89 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Finger down your throat seems to work well for the fashion industry
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 1:08 AM, William Donzelli
>> <wdonzelli at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>>> I can think of several, but none have the sort of instant
reaction
>>> that
>>> is
>>>> required for this application.
>>>
>>> Ipecac is very fast, in many people as close to instant as you can
get.
>
OK, this is quickly becoming the weirdest thread I've seen on
ClassicCmp... this week. -- Ian
4 Apr
4 Apr
6:03 a.m.
New subject: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering, too - Re: Amazing uptime...
On Wed, 3 Apr 2013, Dave Woyciesjes wrote:
I'm guessing you recall that thread from (almost exactly) 7 years ago?
;)
Actually, I was laughing at the idea that _any_ Mac is worth what you paid
for it new. :)
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Yeah, I was gonna say I've seen wierder.
Something about Intel Macs
being worth the price we are charged for them...
Hahahahahahahahahahah *gasps* ahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Good one!
g.
7:08 a.m.
New subject: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering, too - Re: Amazing uptime...
On 04/04/2013 09:03 AM, geneb wrote:
Even if the Mac's sticker price is more than the peecee's (and I saw
one comment in this thread which implies it isn't, though I am familiar
with neither's price point myself), this does not necessarily make the
Mac overpriced. I've never seen an Intel-CPU Mac. But I've seen
recent PowerPC Macs, and if they stick to the same level of quality,
the Intel Mac is worth signifcantly more money than a commodity peecee
with similar paper specs.
/~\ The ASCII der Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
--
--- Dave Woyciesjes
--- ICQ# 905818
--- AIM - woyciesjes
--- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/
--- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/
Registered Linux user number 464583
"Computers have lots of memory but no imagination."
"The problem with troubleshooting is that trouble shoots back."
- from some guy on the internet.
On Wed, 3 Apr 2013, Dave Woyciesjes wrote:
I'm guessing you recall that thread from (almost exactly) 7 years ago?
;)
Actually, I was laughing at the idea that _any_ Mac is worth what you
paid for it new. :)
g.
:) I'm currently trying to clean out my email boxes of the old crap....
A little history:
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: OT: Intel Mac dual booting now officially supported
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 15:37:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: der Mouse <mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca>
Reply-To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Yeah, I was gonna say I've seen wierder.
Something about Intel Macs
being worth the price we are charged for them...
Hahahahahahahahahahah *gasps* ahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Good one!
g. So now what is
the difference between an Intel Mac and PC?
the mac is still horribly over priced.
5:58 p.m.
New subject: How to buy a cheap Mac - Re: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering
On 04/04/13 9:03 AM, geneb wrote:
On Wed, 3 Apr 2013, Dave Woyciesjes wrote:
I'm guessing you recall that thread from (almost exactly) 7 years ago?
;)
Actually, I was laughing at the idea that _any_ Mac is worth what you
paid for it new. :)
The way to buy Macs is refurb/used. Will save a fortune, and you get the
same great hardware.
--Toby
Yeah, I was gonna say I've seen wierder. Something
about Intel Macs
being worth the price we are charged for them...
Hahahahahahahahahahah *gasps* ahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Good one!
g.
g.
7:01 p.m.
New subject: How to buy a cheap Mac - Re: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering
On 4/4/13 6:58 PM, Toby Thain wrote:
On 04/04/13 9:03 AM, geneb wrote:
I can attest to that! Bought my Mac-Pro off E-Bay almost 2 years ago for
$650 + shipping. It's a first generation Intel (2006), and runs
everything I can throw at it, plus Windows XP Pro in a virtual machine
on a second screen for stuff that just won't work on OSX. I have had
pretty much *zero* problems with it, and compared to all the windoze
boxes I've owned, that's saying a lot! Only thing I've done is add a
couple extra drives and more memory. With a pair of Intel Xeon
dual-cores at 2.0 Ghz, it's pretty snappy. ;)
--
Dave Land
Land Computer Service
Check out my site at http://www.landcomp.net
On Wed, 3 Apr 2013, Dave Woyciesjes wrote:
Actually, I was laughing at the idea that _any_ Mac is worth what you
paid for it new. :)
The way to buy Macs is refurb/used. Will save a fortune, and you get the
same great hardware.
--Toby > Yeah,
I was gonna say I've seen wierder. Something about Intel Macs
> being worth the price we are charged for them...
Hahahahahahahahahahah *gasps* ahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Good one!
g.
I'm guessing you recall that thread from (almost exactly) 7 years ago?
;)
7:27 p.m.
New subject: How to buy a cheap Mac - Re: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering
On 04/04/13 10:01 PM, Dave Land wrote:
On 4/4/13 6:58 PM, Toby Thain wrote:
In 2011, I got my 2009, 8 x 3GHz core Mac Pro for half Apple's *refurb*
price (ebay again).
Pretty sure you can find them in dumpsters by now. That's how I got
*two* dual processor Mac G5 workstations.
--Toby
On 04/04/13 9:03 AM, geneb wrote:
I can attest to that! Bought my Mac-Pro off E-Bay almost 2 years ago for
$650 + shipping. It's a first generation Intel (2006), and runs On Wed, 3 Apr 2013, Dave Woyciesjes wrote:
The way to buy Macs is refurb/used. Will save a fortune, and you get the
same great hardware.
--Toby >> Yeah, I was gonna say I've seen
wierder. Something about Intel Macs
>> being worth the price we are charged for them...
>
>
> Hahahahahahahahahahah *gasps* ahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
>
> Good one!
>
> g.
I'm guessing you recall that thread from (almost exactly) 7 years ago?
;)
Actually, I was laughing at the idea that _any_ Mac is worth what you
paid for it new. :) everything I can throw at it, plus Windows XP Pro in a
virtual machine
on a second screen for stuff that just won't work on OSX. I have had
pretty much *zero* problems with it, and compared to all the windoze
boxes I've owned, that's saying a lot! Only thing I've done is add a
couple extra drives and more memory. With a pair of Intel Xeon
dual-cores at 2.0 Ghz, it's pretty snappy. ;)
7:49 p.m.
New subject: How to buy a cheap Mac - Re: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:27 PM, Toby Thain <toby at telegraphics.com.au> wrote:
In 2011, I got my 2009, 8 x 3GHz core Mac Pro for half
Apple's *refurb*
price (ebay again).
Nice.
Pretty sure you can find them in dumpsters by now.
That's how I got *two*
dual processor Mac G5 workstations.
I used to see a lot of G3s being discarded, but those dried up a
couple of years back. Right now, I see more G4s than anything else,
but G5s are definitely being left out on the curbs around here
(Columbus, OH).
Intel Macs are still going for hundreds in these parts, even old ones.
University surplus pretty much doesn't have any priced under $500 and
they all sell quickly.
-ethan
8:15 p.m.
New subject: G5s now dumpster fruit - Re: How to buy a cheap Mac - Re: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering
On 04/04/13 10:49 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:27 PM, Toby Thain<toby at
telegraphics.com.au> wrote:
Sad. Great machines. A G5 is my main home desktop/dev box. Runs like a
dream.
--T
In 2011, I got my 2009, 8 x 3GHz core Mac Pro for
half Apple's *refurb*
price (ebay again).
Nice.
Pretty sure you can find them in dumpsters by
now. That's how I got *two*
dual processor Mac G5 workstations.
I used to see a lot of G3s being discarded, but those dried up a
couple of years back. Right now, I see more G4s than anything else,
but G5s are definitely being left out on the curbs around here (Columbus, OH).
Intel Macs are still going for hundreds in these parts, even old ones.
University surplus pretty much doesn't have any priced under $500 and
they all sell quickly.
-ethan
8:47 p.m.
New subject: G5s now dumpster fruit - Re: How to buy a cheap Mac - Re: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering
----- Original Message -----
From: "Toby Thain" <toby at telegraphics.com.au>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2013 11:15 PM
Subject: G5s now dumpster fruit - Re: How to buy a cheap Mac - Re: Emetics -
Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering
On 04/04/13 10:49 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:27 PM, Toby Thain<toby at telegraphics.com.au>
> wrote:
>> In 2011, I got my 2009, 8 x 3GHz core Mac Pro for half Apple's *refurb*
>> price (ebay again).
>
> Nice.
>
>> Pretty sure you can find them in dumpsters by now. That's how I got
>> *two*
>> dual processor Mac G5 workstations.
>
> I used to see a lot of G3s being discarded, but those dried up a
> couple of years back. Right now, I see more G4s than anything else,
> but G5s are definitely being left out on the curbs around here
G5 towers or the buggy imacs? I pretty much ended my Mac collecting at the
last machine that would boot OS 9.x (a G4 MDD), but I would rescue a G5
tower just because I like the case.
Most of the G3's have been recycled, G4's are being dumped lately so I
expect G5s to be dumped soon as well (especially since Apple OS has not
supported PPC in a long time).
10:15 p.m.
New subject: G5s now dumpster fruit - Re: How to buy a cheap Mac - Re: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering
On 04/04/13 11:47 PM, TeoZ wrote:
----- Original Message ----- From: "Toby Thain" <toby at
telegraphics.com.au>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2013 11:15 PM
Subject: G5s now dumpster fruit - Re: How to buy a cheap Mac - Re:
Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering
Like I said, I was finding G5s in the dumpster a year ago. And about
eight G4 towers.
Yes the G5 case design and interior is just lovely. A warning to anyone
still running them: The power supplies can be very hard to replace, so
stockpile working systems and parts.
--T
On 04/04/13 10:49 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:27 PM, Toby Thain<toby at telegraphics.com.au>
> wrote:
>> In 2011, I got my 2009, 8 x 3GHz core Mac Pro for half Apple's *refurb*
>> price (ebay again).
>
> Nice.
>
>> Pretty sure you can find them in dumpsters by now. That's how I got
>> *two*
>> dual processor Mac G5 workstations.
>
> I used to see a lot of G3s being discarded, but those dried up a
> couple of years back. Right now, I see more G4s than anything else,
> but G5s are definitely being left out on the curbs around here
G5 towers or the buggy imacs? I pretty much ended my Mac collecting at
the last machine that would boot OS 9.x (a G4 MDD), but I would rescue a
G5 tower just because I like the case.
Most of the G3's have been recycled, G4's are being dumped lately so I
expect G5s to be dumped soon as well (especially since Apple OS has not
supported PPC in a long time). 
5 Apr
5 Apr
3:41 a.m.
New subject: G5s now dumpster fruit - Re: How to buy a cheap Mac - Re: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering
>> Pretty sure you can find them in dumpsters by
now. That's how I got *two*
>> dual processor Mac G5 workstations.
Yeah. In US ;(
I wish I could get a G5 for free here. Or at least in affordable price.
--
Ola Hughson
4:47 a.m.
New subject: G5s now dumpster fruit - Re: How to buy a cheap Mac - Re: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering
On 5 April 2013 11:41, Ola Hughson <f.helyanvy at gmail.com> wrote:
I don't know where "here" is, but my dual-proc PCI-X G5 was given to
me almost exactly a year ago - Easter 2012 - by a friend. I rarely use
it & am considering eBaying it off. I wanted to make a server of it,
but it only takes 2 drives internally, despite its considerable
physical size, & any power/space/cost gains would be offset if I
attached loads of external drives to it.
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884
>> Pretty
sure you can find them in dumpsters by now. That's how I got *two*
>> dual processor Mac G5 workstations.
Yeah. In US ;(
I wish I could get a G5 for free here. Or at least in affordable price.
5:05 a.m.
New subject: G5s now dumpster fruit - Re: How to buy a cheap Mac - Re: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering
2013/4/5 Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com>:
On 5 April 2013 11:41, Ola Hughson <f.helyanvy at
gmail.com> wrote:
I don't know where "here" is
Warsaw, Poland.
--
Ola Hughson
>>
Pretty sure you can find them in dumpsters by now. That's how I got *two*
>> dual processor Mac G5 workstations.
Yeah. In US ;(
I wish I could get a G5 for free here. Or at least in affordable price.
6:07 a.m.
New subject: G5s now dumpster fruit - Re: How to buy a cheap Mac - Re: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering
On 5 April 2013 13:05, Ola Hughson <f.helyanvy at gmail.com> wrote:
2013/4/5 Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com>:
Aha! I have not visited - only Krak?w, a beautiful city.
Well, G5s seem to be down to around ?150 or so in Britain now and
surface shipping would be fairly cheap.
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884
On 5 April 2013 11:41, Ola Hughson <f.helyanvy
at gmail.com> wrote:
I don't know where "here" is
Warsaw, Poland. >>
Pretty sure you can find them in dumpsters by now. That's how I got *two*
>> dual processor Mac G5 workstations.
Yeah. In US ;(
I wish I could get a G5 for free here. Or at least in affordable price.
8:33 a.m.
New subject: G5s now dumpster fruit - Re: How to buy a cheap Mac - Re: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering
2013/4/5 Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com>:
Well, G5s seem to be down to around ?150 or so in
Britain now and
surface shipping would be fairly cheap.
In a specific definition of "cheap". I am trying to get a box (Solaris
2.x media + manuals, sun shoebox and some other things) from UK here.
I already paid half of the shipping cost (or so), but I cannot pay
more now. (As in, a friend says that getting IBAN number would be
troublesome, and he lost his PayPal account.)
I've been thinking, however , about people who live nearby him and DO
have PayPal (nearby Manchester), so I could send money to them and
they would just meet and give it. I haven't really found anyone yet.
And if I had a car/could ask a friend to go here by car, he would have
to take two more things :x (or at least one).
Oh, and I earn around ?250 each month.
And You are right. Krak?w is beautiful :) I am considering eventually
moving there.
--
Ola Hughson
9:16 a.m.
New subject: G5s now dumpster fruit - Re: How to buy a cheap Mac - Re: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering
On 5 April 2013 16:33, Ola Hughson <f.helyanvy at gmail.com> wrote:
2013/4/5 Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com>:
[Nod] I am intimately familiar with the problem!
Well, G5s seem to be down to around ?150 or so in
Britain now and
surface shipping would be fairly cheap.
In a specific definition of "cheap". I am trying to get a box (Solaris
2.x media + manuals, sun shoebox and some other things) from UK here.
I already paid half of the shipping cost (or so), but I cannot pay
more now. (As in, a friend says that getting IBAN number would be
troublesome, and he lost his PayPal account.)
I've been thinking, however , about people who live nearby him and DO
have PayPal (nearby Manchester), so I could send money to them and
they would just meet and give it. I haven't really found anyone yet.
And if I had a car/could ask a friend to go here by car, he would have
to take two more things :x (or at least one).
Oh, and I earn around ?250 each month.
Currently, that is more than me, if that is any consolation. And
London is *expensive*.
I believe people still travel regularly between the UK and Poland by
coach. Could someone carry a wheely-bag piece of luggage for you with
equipment in it? I moved a Mac & its 17" monitor to the Isle of Man
that way... Cheaper than any alternative I could find.
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884
6:19 a.m.
New subject: G5s now dumpster fruit - Re: How to buy a cheap Mac - Re: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:15 PM, Toby Thain <toby at telegraphics.com.au>wrote:
Sad. Great machines. A G5 is my main home desktop/dev
box. Runs like a
dream.
One of my friends' father has been using a third gen G3 iMac for browsing
the web since they first came out. It was all he really needed. Last
December the web site he mainly uses switched to HTML5 so the ancient
browser he had on there couldn't render the site properly.
So my friend "upgraded" him to a G5 iMac, that's five years old. Runs
everything his dad needs again and is comparatively fast.
Note the old G3 iMac is still running fine, it just can't run the latest
browser.
Along with my collection of old Macs, I have a beige G3 and an AGP G4 that
still run fine, after some regular maintenance.
7:54 a.m.
New subject: Browsers are the stumbling point (was Re: G5s now dumpster fruit, etc.)
On 4/5/13 6:19 AM, "Jason McBrien" <jbmcb1 at gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:15 PM, Toby Thain
<toby at telegraphics.com.au>wrote:
That?s what's truly sad: it's not that the computer isn't capable, but the
browser is not! My family and I use dual G4 Powermacs, which are
wonderful machines. But once the browser protocols migrate from what
their browsers can support, they might as well be doorstops from my
family's perspective. -- Ian
Sad. Great machines. A G5 is my main home
desktop/dev box. Runs like a
dream.
One of my friends' father has been using a third gen G3 iMac for browsing
the web since they first came out. It was all he really needed. Last
December the web site he mainly uses switched to HTML5 so the ancient
browser he had on there couldn't render the site properly.
So my friend "upgraded" him to a G5 iMac, that's five years old. Runs
everything his dad needs again and is comparatively fast.
Note the old G3 iMac is still running fine, it just can't run the latest
browser.
8:08 a.m.
New subject: Browsers are the stumbling point (was Re: G5s now dumpster fruit, etc.)
On 04/05/2013 10:54 AM, Ian King wrote:
That?s what's truly sad: it's not that the
computer isn't capable, but the
browser is not! My family and I use dual G4 Powermacs, which are
wonderful machines. But once the browser protocols migrate from what
their browsers can support, they might as well be doorstops from my
family's perspective. -- Ian
I was gonna say "fortunately there's more to the Internet than web
browsing", but then I suppose for most people that's just not the case.
Indeed most nontechnical people nowadays have no idea of how a computer could
be useful without a web browser, or without an Internet connection.
"How do you click on links?" was a question I got from a young person (but
not a child) at VCF-East last year, while he was going "oooh ahhh" over my
PDP-11.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
8:22 a.m.
New subject: Browsers are the stumbling point (was Re: G5s now dumpster fruit, etc.)
On 5 April 2013 15:54, Ian King <IanK at vulcan.com> wrote:
On 4/5/13 6:19 AM, "Jason McBrien"
<jbmcb1 at gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks to ClassicCmp's very own Cameron Kaiser, there's TenFourFox for
PPC Mac users running Tiger, and if you're on a later G4 or G5 with
Leopard, there's Aurora. Both make these older machines far more
practical today.
http://www.floodgap.com/software/tenfourfox/
http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/43362/aurorafox
OS X 10.4 has quite low hardware requirements - it runs fine on
well-specced G3 Macs.
But then again, the modern Web has higher CPU demands than you might
expect. I think a gigaHertz-class machine really is the entry level
these days. A good fast high-spec 500-750MHz machine can be usable but
it will be a little laggy and require some patience.
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:15 PM, Toby Thain
<toby at telegraphics.com.au>wrote:
That? what's truly sad: it's not that the computer isn't capable, but the
browser is not! My family and I use dual G4 Powermacs, which are
wonderful machines. But once the browser protocols migrate from what
their browsers can support, they might as well be doorstops from my
family's perspective. -- Ian Sad. Great machines. A G5 is my main home
desktop/dev box. Runs like a
dream.
One of my friends' father has been using a third gen G3 iMac for browsing
the web since they first came out. It was all he really needed. Last
December the web site he mainly uses switched to HTML5 so the ancient
browser he had on there couldn't render the site properly.
So my friend "upgraded" him to a G5 iMac, that's five years old. Runs
everything his dad needs again and is comparatively fast.
Note the old G3 iMac is still running fine, it just can't run the latest
browser.
10:22 a.m.
New subject: Browsers are the stumbling point (was Re: G5s now dumpster fruit, etc.)
On 4/5/13 8:22 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
But then again, the modern Web has higher CPU demands
than you might
expect.
eBay, in particular. A 2GHz dual G5 is now too slow to be useful to browse a
category even with TenFourFox due to Javascript bloat. I get through a page or
two and give up in disgust.
10:27 a.m.
New subject: Browsers are the stumbling point (was Re: G5s now dumpster fruit, etc.)
On 04/05/2013 01:22 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
PROGRESS! ...or something.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
But then
again, the modern Web has higher CPU demands than you might
expect.
eBay, in particular. A 2GHz dual G5 is now too slow to be useful to
browse a
category even with TenFourFox due to Javascript bloat. I get through a
page or
two and give up in disgust. 
10:36 a.m.
New subject: Browsers are the stumbling point (was Re: G5s now dumpster fruit, etc.)
-----Original Message-----
From: Al Kossow
On 4/5/13 8:22 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
> But then again, the modern Web has higher CPU
demands than you might
> expect.
eBay, in particular. A 2GHz dual G5 is now too slow to
be useful to browse
a
category even with TenFourFox due to Javascript bloat.
What browser? I've found that in many cases the only browser that will
provide a fully functional site is Safari. (And it too has its
limitations.)
Jim
11:01 a.m.
New subject: Browsers are the stumbling point (was Re: G5s now dumpster fruit, etc.)
On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 1:22 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
On 4/5/13 8:22 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
When Javascript changed to 64-bit ints, it really pummelled CPU and
memory requirements on 32-bit machines.
-ethan
But then again, the modern Web has higher CPU
demands than you might
expect.
eBay, in particular. A 2GHz dual G5 is now too slow to be useful to browse a
category even with TenFourFox due to Javascript bloat. I get through a page
or two and give up in disgust.
4:43 p.m.
New subject: Browsers are the stumbling point (was Re: G5s now dumpster fruit, etc.)
On 05/04/13 1:22 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
On 4/5/13 8:22 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
Odd, I seem to manage okay on this dual 2.5 with Tenfourfox - ebay,
quora, twitter, etc.
--Toby
But then again, the modern Web has higher CPU
demands than you might
expect.
eBay, in particular. A 2GHz dual G5 is now too slow to be useful to
browse a
category even with TenFourFox due to Javascript bloat. I get through a
page or
two and give up in disgust.
5:33 p.m.
New subject: Browsers are the stumbling point (was Re: G5s now dumpster fruit, etc.)
On 4/5/13 5:43 PM, Toby Thain wrote:
On 05/04/13 1:22 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
You could always reload it with PPC Linux if you want to 'modernize' it,
but then again the G5's were major power hogs for the amount of work you
could get out of them. Up to 160 watts at idle and 950 watts or more
running full bore for the Quad. I guess it depends how much you like to
pay per month on your electric bill. :)
--
Dave Land
Land Computer Service
Check out my site at http://www.landcomp.net
On 4/5/13 8:22 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
Odd, I seem to manage okay on this dual 2.5 with Tenfourfox - ebay,
quora, twitter, etc.
--Toby
But then again, the modern Web has higher CPU
demands than you might
expect.
eBay, in particular. A 2GHz dual G5 is now too slow to be useful to
browse a
category even with TenFourFox due to Javascript bloat. I get through a
page or
two and give up in disgust.
5:52 p.m.
New subject: Browsers are the stumbling point (was Re: G5s now dumpster fruit, etc.)
On 04/05/2013 08:33 PM, Dave Land wrote:
You could always reload it with PPC Linux if you want
to 'modernize' it, but
then again the G5's were major power hogs for the amount of work you could
get out of them. Up to 160 watts at idle and 950 watts or more running full
bore for the Quad. I guess it depends how much you like to pay per month on
your electric bill. :)
Oh good heavens. That's nothin'.
But in terms of bang for the watt, it really isn't all that easy to beat a G5.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
6:01 p.m.
New subject: LinuxPPC - Re: Browsers are the stumbling point (was Re: G5s now dumpster fruit, etc.)
On 05/04/13 8:33 PM, Dave Land wrote:
On 4/5/13 5:43 PM, Toby Thain wrote:
That's what I used circa 2001, on PPC604. Pretty zippy, too.
--Toby
On 05/04/13 1:22 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
You could always reload it with PPC Linux if you want to 'modernize' it,
On 4/5/13 8:22 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
Odd, I seem to manage okay on this dual 2.5 with Tenfourfox - ebay,
quora, twitter, etc.
--Toby
But then again, the modern Web has higher CPU
demands than you might
expect.
eBay, in particular. A 2GHz dual G5 is now too slow to be useful to
browse a
category even with TenFourFox due to Javascript bloat. I get through a
page or
two and give up in disgust. but then again the G5's were major power hogs for
the amount of work you
could get out of them. Up to 160 watts at idle and 950 watts or more
running full bore for the Quad. I guess it depends how much you like to
pay per month on your electric bill. :)
11:21 a.m.
New subject: Browsers are the stumbling point (was Re: G5s now dumpster fruit, etc.)
At 2:54 PM +0000 4/5/13, Ian King wrote:
That's what's truly sad: it's not that the
computer isn't capable, but the
browser is not! My family and I use dual G4 Powermacs, which are
wonderful machines. But once the browser protocols migrate from what
their browsers can support, they might as well be doorstops from my
family's perspective. -- Ian
The reason I upgraded from a 8500/180 to a G4/450 (2nd sold in the
area, such an early model it was running System 8.6), and then from
the G4/450 to a Rev.0 dual 2Ghz G5 was due to the speed at which I
could surf. The reason I moved from the G5 to a late-2010 Mac Pro
was because the G5 died after about seven years.
With both the G5 PowerMac and the Mac Pro, the most important aspects
were the amount of RAM and the number of HD's they can handle. In
fact when I bought the dual 2.4Ghz 4-core (8-cores total) Mac Pro,
until I took it above the stock 6Gb RAM, it was slower than the
ancient G5. It would be nice if Apple would sell systems with enough
RAM to run the OS. With the G4, I kept it running for a couple
years, by doing my surfing on a Pentium 4 box I had.
Zane
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Photographer |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| My flickr Photostream |
| http://www.flickr.com/photos/33848088 at N03/ |
| My Photography Website |
| http://www.zanesphotography.com |
11:28 a.m.
New subject: Browsers are the stumbling point (was Re: G5s now dumpster fruit, etc.)
On 04/05/2013 02:21 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote:
I ran my G5 for a very long time for the same reason.
That's
what's truly sad: it's not that the computer isn't capable, but
the
browser is not! My family and I use dual G4 Powermacs, which are
wonderful machines. But once the browser protocols migrate from what
their browsers can support, they might as well be doorstops from my
family's perspective. -- Ian
The reason I upgraded from a 8500/180 to a G4/450 (2nd sold in the area,
such an early model it was running System 8.6), and then from the G4/450
to a Rev.0 dual 2Ghz G5 was due to the speed at which I could surf. The
reason I moved from the G5 to a late-2010 Mac Pro was because the G5
died after about seven years.
With both the G5 PowerMac and the Mac Pro, the most important aspects
were the amount of RAM and the number of HD's they can handle. In fact
when I bought the dual 2.4Ghz 4-core (8-cores total) Mac Pro, until I
took it above the stock 6Gb RAM, it was slower than the ancient G5. It
would be nice if Apple would sell systems with enough RAM to run the
OS.
There is NEVER enough ram to run OS X. That's the main reason why I
dumped it after so many years.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
12:18 p.m.
New subject: Browsers are the stumbling point (was Re: G5s now dumpster fruit, etc.)
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Dave McGuire
Sent: Friday, April 05, 2013 1:29 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Browsers are the stumbling point (was Re: G5s now dumpster
fruit, etc.)
On 04/05/2013 02:21 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote:
> That's what's truly sad: it's not that
the computer isn't capable,
> but the browser is not!
This is the exact reason one of our home pages is straight HTML, W3C
certified. We can test old NIC cards on Win 95 or 98 with no problem! Yes,
the page could look a lot better and still be straight HTML; maybe when I
get time I will re-do it.
There really is no reason that web pages have to be so all-consuming.
Designers seem to think that we want to be overloaded with visual
sensations. Personally, I would much rather get the info I need, and not be
pestered with ads and garbage.
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3267 / Virus Database: 3162/6224 - Release Date: 04/04/13
12:23 p.m.
New subject: Browsers are the stumbling point (was Re: G5s now dumpster fruit, etc.)
On Apr 5, 2013, at 3:18 PM, "Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus" <sales at
elecplus.com> wrote:
On 04/05/2013 02:21 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote:
Sure. Craigslist takes the same approach. It may look a little
bare-bones, but last I checked, I could still use it with Lynx
(assuming I didn't need to see photos, anyway).
- Dave
> That's what's truly sad: it's not
that the computer isn't capable,
> but the browser is not!
This is the exact reason one of our home pages is straight HTML, W3C
certified. We can test old NIC cards on Win 95 or 98 with no problem! Yes,
the page could look a lot better and still be straight HTML; maybe when I
get time I will re-do it.
There really is no reason that web pages have to be so all-consuming.
Designers seem to think that we want to be overloaded with visual
sensations. Personally, I would much rather get the info I need, and not be
pestered with ads and garbage.
12:37 p.m.
New subject: Browsers are the stumbling point (was Re: G5s now dumpster fruit, etc.)
On 04/05/2013 03:23 PM, David Riley wrote:
Sure. Craigslist takes the same approach. It may look a little
bare-bones, but last I checked, I could still use it with Lynx
(assuming I didn't need to see photos, anyway).
Yep. And it's FAST, and lets you get stuff done. I think most sites
nowadays are designed to dazzle and bamboozle you to the point where you'll
buy something that you otherwise might not have bought. (which is something
I wouldn't put past the suits, of course)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
> That's what's truly sad: it's not that
the computer isn't capable,
> but the browser is not!
This is the exact reason one of our home pages is straight HTML, W3C
certified. We can test old NIC cards on Win 95 or 98 with no problem! Yes,
the page could look a lot better and still be straight HTML; maybe when I
get time I will re-do it.
There really is no reason that web pages have to be so all-consuming.
Designers seem to think that we want to be overloaded with visual
sensations. Personally, I would much rather get the info I need, and not be
pestered with ads and garbage.
12:24 p.m.
New subject: Browsers are the stumbling point (was Re: G5s now dumpster fruit, etc.)
On 04/05/2013 03:18 PM, Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus wrote:
This is the exact reason one of our home pages is
straight HTML, W3C
certified. We can test old NIC cards on Win 95 or 98 with no problem! Yes,
the page could look a lot better and still be straight HTML; maybe when I
get time I will re-do it.
Bravo!
There really is no reason that web pages have to be so
all-consuming.
Designers seem to think that we want to be overloaded with visual
sensations. Personally, I would much rather get the info I need, and not be
pestered with ads and garbage.
Hear hear. I hate this "visual noise" generation that we seem to be mired
in.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
12:48 p.m.
New subject: Browsers are the stumbling point (was Re: G5s now dumpster fruit, etc.)
There really
is no reason that web pages have to be so
all-consuming. Designers seem to think that we want to be
overloaded with visual sensations. Personally, I would much rather
get the info I need, and not be pestered with ads and garbage.
Hear hear. I hate
this "visual noise" generation that we seem to be
mired in. 
12:53 p.m.
New subject: Browsers are the stumbling point (was Re: G5s now dumpster fruit, etc.)
On 4/5/2013 12:24 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
Hear hear. I hate this "visual noise"
generation that we seem to be mired in.
-Dave
There are some improvements that are on the way that have
moved the
browser graphic performance to the level of useful for in browser
graphics gaming, and it is all in javascript engine fiddling. I don't
think it will be going the other way any time soon.
Web pages as in hypertexted pages, or front ends to databases you are
all 100% right, give me something enhanced on the old fashioned text
terminal screen maybe, but not bloat, and be done. Too many pages are
way too busy.
but the performance I saw in a recent posting for running games leads me
to believe that there will be way more javascript stuff coming that
relies on that performance, and none of it will be supported in either
the mac G5 os's or in the earlier Intel mac os's.
I have a very nice macbook which is in that catagory, and is stuck in an
apple time warp that is the real disaster to contend with. if it had
been much more than the 100 bucks I gave for it and does run vnc for
remoting into my computing systems, I'd not have any user for it.
I'm waiting for an affordable take on the larger Chrome notebook with
the high density screen. That is really more useful than anything
else. Lots of small clear windows on a nice clear screen.
jim
12:44 p.m.
New subject: Browsers are the stumbling point (was Re: G5s now dumpster fruit, etc.)
On 5 April 2013 15:18, Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus <sales at elecplus.com>wrote:
This is the exact reason one of our home pages is
straight HTML, W3C
certified.
I like web designs like that. For the specific reason designs that are
plain HTML are far, far more accessible then a flash filled monstrosity.
There really is no reason that web pages have to be so
all-consuming.
There is a perfectly valid reason for such horrendous design: Pandering to
the kiddies with far too much of mommy and daddy's money and with the
average intelligence of a pistachio.
Cheers,
Christian
1:07 p.m.
New subject: Browsers are the stumbling point (was Re: G5s now dumpster fruit, etc.)
On 04/05/2013 03:44 PM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:
Nicely put. :-)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
There really
is no reason that web pages have to be so all-consuming.
There is a perfectly valid reason for such horrendous design: Pandering to
the kiddies with far too much of mommy and daddy's money and with the
average intelligence of a pistachio.
2:37 p.m.
New subject: Browsers are the stumbling point (was Re: G5s now dumpster fruit, etc.)
On Fri, 5 Apr 2013, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:
There is a perfectly valid reason for such horrendous
design: Pandering to
the kiddies with far too much of mommy and daddy's money and with the
average intelligence of a pistachio.
That is an insult to pistachios.
2:54 p.m.
New subject: Browsers are the stumbling point (was Re: G5s now dumpster fruit, etc.)
This here is actually quite relevant to my experience with trying to browse
the web last night on a 20" iMac G5 (2.1 GHz, 1.5 gigs ram, Leopard), as it
was dreadfully slow with Ten Four Fox, and Safari was too old to be worth
bothering with. I guess this is why I found the iMac on the side of the
road, it's a bit too slow to be useful for anything other than using the
old Wacom tablet with Photoshop CS3 (and it's slow at that).
5:06 p.m.
New subject: Browsers are the stumbling point (was Re: G5s now dumpster fruit, etc.)
On Apr 5, 2013, at 17:37, Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote:
On Fri, 5 Apr 2013, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:
Yeah, be nice to pistachios! They're perfectly smart,
they're just a little nuts.
- Dave
There is a perfectly valid reason for such
horrendous design: Pandering to
the kiddies with far too much of mommy and daddy's money and with the
average intelligence of a pistachio.
That is an insult to pistachios.
4:41 p.m.
New subject: PowerPC can run new Firefox - Re: Browsers are the stumbling point (was Re: G5s now dumpster fruit, etc.)
On 05/04/13 10:54 AM, Ian King wrote:
On 4/5/13 6:19 AM, "Jason McBrien"<jbmcb1
at gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks to the efforts of Cameron Kaiser, you can run the latest Firefox
on G4 and G5, if you wish: http://tenfourfox.com
And Safari on OS X 10.5 is very modern.
Unfortunately they never got all the bugs out of PowerPC Opera before it
was discontinued.
--Toby
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:15 PM, Toby Thain
<toby at telegraphics.com.au>wrote:
That?s what's truly sad: it's not that the computer isn't capable, but the
browser is not! My family and I use dual G4 Powermacs, which are
wonderful machines. But once the browser protocols migrate from what
their browsers can support, they might as well be doorstops from my
family's perspective. -- Ian Sad. Great machines. A G5 is my main home
desktop/dev box. Runs like a
dream.
One of my friends' father has been using a third gen G3 iMac for browsing
the web since they first came out. It was all he really needed. Last
December the web site he mainly uses switched to HTML5 so the ancient
browser he had on there couldn't render the site properly.
So my friend "upgraded" him to a G5 iMac, that's five years old. Runs
everything his dad needs again and is comparatively fast.
Note the old G3 iMac is still running fine, it just can't run the latest
browser.
4 Apr
4 Apr
10:29 p.m.
New subject: How to buy a cheap Mac - Re: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering
I inherited a G5 tower from a non-profit org. They had retired it in favor of newer
hardware.
First thing I did with it was to archive their data.
I was in the process of setting it up for my use. Got it personalized then went to power
it on the next weekend and it wouldn't start?? No screen and an increasing fan
noise?..
Was their a common problem with these? And yes I flushed the pram and tried a new
battery.
George Rachor
george at rachors.com
Bummer. Would have been a nice box.
On Apr 4, 2013, at 7:27 PM, Toby Thain <toby at telegraphics.com.au> wrote:
On 04/04/13 10:01 PM, Dave Land wrote:
On 4/4/13 6:58 PM, Toby Thain wrote:
In 2011, I got my 2009, 8 x 3GHz core Mac Pro for half Apple's *refurb* price (ebay
again).
Pretty sure you can find them in dumpsters by now. That's how I got *two* dual
processor Mac G5 workstations.
--Toby
On 04/04/13 9:03 AM, geneb wrote:
I can attest to that! Bought my Mac-Pro off E-Bay almost 2 years ago for
$650 + shipping. It's a first generation Intel (2006), and runs On Wed, 3 Apr 2013, Dave Woyciesjes wrote:
>>> Yeah, I was gonna say I've seen wierder. Something about Intel Macs
>>> being worth the price we are charged for them...
>>
>>
>> Hahahahahahahahahahah *gasps* ahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
>>
>> Good one!
>>
>> g.
>
> I'm guessing you recall that thread from (almost exactly) 7 years ago?
> ;)
Actually, I was laughing at the idea that _any_ Mac is worth what you
paid for it new. :)
The way to buy Macs is refurb/used. Will save a fortune, and you get the
same great hardware.
--Toby everything I can throw at it, plus Windows XP Pro
in a virtual machine
on a second screen for stuff that just won't work on OSX. I have had
pretty much *zero* problems with it, and compared to all the windoze
boxes I've owned, that's saying a lot! Only thing I've done is add a
couple extra drives and more memory. With a pair of Intel Xeon
dual-cores at 2.0 Ghz, it's pretty snappy. ;)
5 Apr
5 Apr
12:20 a.m.
New subject: How to buy a cheap Mac - Re: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Rachor" <george at rachors.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, April 05, 2013 1:29 AM
Subject: Re: How to buy a cheap Mac - Re: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence
is poor engineering
I inherited a G5 tower from a non-profit org. They had
retired it in favor
of newer hardware.
First thing I did with it was to archive their data.
I was in the process of setting it up for my use. Got it personalized
then went to power it on the next weekend and it wouldn't start?? No
screen and an increasing fan noise?..
Was their a common problem with these? And yes I flushed the pram and
tried a new battery.
George Rachor
george at rachors.com
Bad capacitors, bad power supplies, leaking coolant destroying motherboards
(on the water cooled models).
9 a.m.
New subject: How to buy a cheap Mac - Re: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering
On 04/04/2013 08:58 PM, Toby Thain wrote:
On 04/04/13 9:03 AM, geneb wrote:
Great?
[chuckle]
;)
--
--- Dave Woyciesjes
--- ICQ# 905818
--- AIM - woyciesjes
--- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/
--- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/
Registered Linux user number 464583
"Computers have lots of memory but no imagination."
"The problem with troubleshooting is that trouble shoots back."
- from some guy on the internet.
On Wed, 3 Apr 2013, Dave Woyciesjes wrote:
Actually, I was laughing at the idea that _any_ Mac is worth what you
paid for it new. :)
The way to buy Macs is refurb/used. Will save a fortune, and you get the
same great hardware.
> Yeah,
I was gonna say I've seen wierder. Something about Intel Macs
> being worth the price we are charged for them...
Hahahahahahahahahahah *gasps* ahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Good one!
g.
I'm guessing you recall that thread from (almost exactly) 7 years ago?
;)
12:27 a.m.
New subject: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering, too - Re: Amazing uptime...
On Apr 4, 2013, at 6:03 AM, geneb <geneb at deltasoft.com> wrote:
Actually, I was laughing at the idea that _any_ Mac is
worth what you paid for it new. :)
It depends on what you do. My late-2010 Mac Pro was definitely worth what I paid for it.
Then again, I use it for the latest version of photoshop.
Zane
3 Apr
3 Apr
2:46 p.m.
New subject: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering, too - Re: Amazing uptime...
You need to be careful with ipecac, though. Too much can cause cardiac damage.
On 4/3/13, William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> wrote:
--
Joseph Giliberti
InfoAge Science / History Learning Center and Museum
Get more information at http://www.infoage.org
I can think of
several, but none have the sort of instant reaction that
is
required for this application.
Ipecac is very fast, in many people as close to instant as you can get.
--
Will
3:56 p.m.
New subject: Emetics - Re: planned obsolescence is poor engineering, too - Re: Amazing uptime...
On Wed, 3 Apr 2013, Joe Giliberti wrote:
You need to be careful with ipecac, though. Too much
can cause cardiac damage.
I think that's removed once you hit VP of Marketing or higher anyway.
Either way, Nothing of Value Was Lost.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
2 Apr
2 Apr
9:53 p.m.
New subject: planned obsolescence is poor engineering, too - Re: Amazing uptime...
On 04/02/2013 10:50 PM, David Griffith wrote:
Yes. I had an argument a few days ago with an "engineer" (who is a
salesman who apparently USED to be an engineer) who loves the fact that
people send huge HTML-laden emails around, because he SELLS STORAGE SYSTEMS.
I thought I'd vomit. But I flamed him to the waterline instead.
It's times like that I think it would be a really handy ability to vomit on
demand. "You make me sick! <huaggghhhh!!!> See!"
Yes! :-)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
>> Does
the phrase "planned obsolescence" mean anything to anybody?
>
> Don't get me started. Look at the upgrade chain for commercial Solaris
> these days. ... Yes, you
> really don't need new hardware for your environment due to capacity
> issues, but you do if you want to ensure the product you use for
> security monitoring is secure, you need to fork out $50k+.
Damn suits. This is what happens when our society allows people who are
better suited to being late-shift fast food restaurant managers, or
perhaps just bank robbers, get into upper management.
This should offend any engineer, who if she is any good, is well trained in
parsimony of solutions.
3 Apr
3 Apr
5:36 a.m.
New subject: planned obsolescence is poor engineering, too - Re: Amazing uptime...
On Tue, 2 Apr 2013, David Griffith wrote:
Bah. Why go to that level of discomfort on yourself? A little spritz of
Ipecac would really improve the flavor of his/her coffee...
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
SYSTEMS.
I thought I'd vomit. But I flamed him to the waterline instead.
It's times like that I think it would be a really handy ability to vomit on
demand. "You make me sick! <huaggghhhh!!!> See!"
2 Apr
2 Apr
6:57 p.m.
New subject: Planned obsolescence, and other crimes - Re: Amazing uptime...
On 02/04/13 12:13 PM, Jonathan Katz wrote:
On Apr 2, 2013, at 11:45 AM, R
SMALLWOOD<rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com> wrote:
That kind of tying hardware upgrade to a purely arbitrary software
decision should be illegal, period.
That it is not, is a sign of how far things are out of whack. Waste
might have been acceptable for a few recent decades, but it won't always
be acceptable, or even possible.
--Toby
Does the phrase "planned obsolescence"
mean anything to anybody?
Don't get me started. Look at the upgrade chain for commercial
Solaris these days. What you can/can't run Solaris 10 on, Solaris 11
on, etc. But that's another thread all on its own.
I'm an ex-HP/ArcSight guy who now does ArcSight consulting with a
small firm, and we have a lot of great customers. That said, some of
those customers are using older (3-5 years old) appliance hardware
which was sold by ArcSight (pre-HP.) The hardware works fine and is
sized appropriately for their needs, but HP won't support the latest
software upgrades on it, and those software upgrades are required to
avoid a nasty XSS bug. So I can't upgrade a keep a customer's system
secure because they aren't running the most recent ($$$) hardware. It doesn't help that the original hardware ArcSight
used for their
appliances was Dell-based,...
3 Apr
3 Apr
2:08 a.m.
Its funny you should mention Solaris. In addition to my main DEC collection I have a few
Sun systems including a nice E3000 server.
I have a kosher original SUN copy of? Solaris 9 .
You can get Solaris 10 but its on DVD iso images and the E3000 only has a CD and I would
need? a SCSI DVD to load it.?
?
Oracle have now made Oracle Linux (PC version) downloadable for free.
I did it and it works just fine.
?
There's a promise of Oracle Linux for Sparc and that would really bring the SUN
systems to life.
________________________________
From: Jonathan Katz <jon at jonworld.com>
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, 2 April 2013, 17:13
Subject: Re: Amazing uptime...
On Apr 2, 2013, at 11:45 AM, R SMALLWOOD <rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com> wrote:
Does the phrase "planned obsolescence" mean
anything to anybody?
Don't get me started. Look at the upgrade chain for commercial Solaris these days.
What you can/can't run Solaris 10 on, Solaris 11 on, etc. But that's another
thread all on its own.
I'm an ex-HP/ArcSight guy who now does ArcSight consulting with a small firm, and we
have a lot of great customers. That said, some of those customers are using older (3-5
years old) appliance hardware which was sold by ArcSight (pre-HP.) The hardware works fine
and is sized appropriately for their needs, but HP won't support the latest software
upgrades on it, and those software upgrades are required to avoid a nasty XSS bug. So I
can't upgrade a keep a customer's system secure because they aren't running
the most recent ($$$) hardware. It doesn't help that the original hardware ArcSight
used for their appliances was Dell-based, and now being owned by HP it's kind of a
black eye for HP to keep supporting Dell-based HW.
Meanwhile I'm trying to be a good partner/VAR/trusted advisor to my customers, but the
vendor has totally put the squeeze on me. Yes, you really don't need new hardware for
your environment due to capacity issues, but you do if you want to ensure the product you
use for security monitoring is secure, you need to fork out $50k+.
7:03 a.m.
On 3 April 2013 10:08, R SMALLWOOD <rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com> wrote:
Its funny you should mention Solaris. In addition to
my main DEC collection I have a few Sun systems including a nice E3000 server.
I have a kosher original SUN copy of Solaris 9 .
You can get Solaris 10 but its on DVD iso images and the E3000 only has a CD and I would
need a SCSI DVD to load it.
Could you not install it over the network? That's how I got Red Hat
4.2 onto my SPARCstation IPX back in the 1990s.
Oracle have now made Oracle Linux (PC version)
downloadable for free.
I did it and it works just fine.
There's a promise of Oracle Linux for Sparc and that would really bring the SUN
systems to life.
Oracle Linux is basically CentOS with the name changed. CentOS is Reh
Hat Enterprise Linux recompiled from the sources that RH publish.
Scientific Linux is the same.
Oracle Linux is primarily an effort by Oracle to stab Red Hat in the
back. Hidebound corporates who would not touch a Free OS such as
CentOS are reassured by the Oracle name and the support contracts.
So if either CentOS or Scientific Linux are available on SPARC, just
use them. No point waiting for Oracle & no reason to use Oracle's
version.
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884
8:30 a.m.
Last time our company was looking at a requirement to use oracle with some other tools we
looked at oracle linux and yes its just redhat certified to work with oracle. The funny
part was it was slightly cheaper than redhat for its licensing so we were going to go with
OEL just for that however we luckily ended up not needing that product afterall.
There was also another redhat knockoff called white box linux which was the similar goal
as centos (strip out corporate packages and get it back to opensource). Yet another dead
distro that for a while was looking good.
-----Original Message-----
From: Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com>
Sender: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.orgDate: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 15:03:16
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Amazing uptime...
On 3 April 2013 10:08, R SMALLWOOD <rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com> wrote:
Its funny you should mention Solaris. In addition to
my main DEC collection I have a few Sun systems including a nice E3000 server.
I have a kosher original SUN copy of Solaris 9 .
You can get Solaris 10 but its on DVD iso images and the E3000 only has a CD and I would
need a SCSI DVD to load it.
Could you not install it over the network? That's how I got Red Hat
4.2 onto my SPARCstation IPX back in the 1990s.
Oracle have now made Oracle Linux (PC version)
downloadable for free.
I did it and it works just fine.
There's a promise of Oracle Linux for Sparc and that would really bring the SUN
systems to life.
Oracle Linux is basically CentOS with the name changed. CentOS is Reh
Hat Enterprise Linux recompiled from the sources that RH publish.
Scientific Linux is the same.
Oracle Linux is primarily an effort by Oracle to stab Red Hat in the
back. Hidebound corporates who would not touch a Free OS such as
CentOS are reassured by the Oracle name and the support contracts.
So if either CentOS or Scientific Linux are available on SPARC, just
use them. No point waiting for Oracle & no reason to use Oracle's
version.
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884
9:52 a.m.
On 3 April 2013 16:30, Sam O'nella <barythrin at gmail.com> wrote:
Last time our company was looking at a requirement to use oracle with some other tools we
looked at oracle linux and yes its just redhat certified to work with oracle. The funny
part was it was slightly cheaper than redhat for its licensing so we were going to go with
OEL just for that however we luckily ended up not needing that product afterall.
There was also another redhat knockoff called white box linux which was the similar goal
as centos (strip out corporate packages and get it back to opensource). Yet another dead
distro that for a while was looking good.
Indeed. yes, White Box Linux was another version, but there are still
two FOSS rebuilds of RHEL so we're not doing too badly.
Also, may I suggest that you stick to plain-text emails and
bottom-quote on the list, please?
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884
10:29 a.m.
New subject: Solaris, was Re: Amazing uptime...
On 04/03/2013 05:08 AM, R SMALLWOOD wrote:
Its funny you should mention Solaris. In addition to
my main DEC
collection I have a few Sun systems including a nice E3000 server. I have
a kosher original SUN copy of Solaris 9 . You can get Solaris 10 but its
on DVD iso images and the E3000 only has a CD and I would need a SCSI DVD
to load it.
This is OH so very off-topic.
You can do a "Jumpstart" install (a very highly-automated form of network
installation )if you have another running Solaris system. If you're
unfamiliar with that and want to do it, contact me privately, I can help.
Oracle have now made Oracle Linux (PC version)
downloadable for free. I
did it and it works just fine.
Yuck. I mean, I'm sure it runs great, but it's like Linux of a decade ago.
There's a promise of Oracle Linux for Sparc and
that would really bring
the SUN systems to life.
But Linux is nowhere near able to take advantage of the architectural
strengths of that system. I'm not knocking it; my main desktop system was a
4/610MP (Sun never sold that config, but if they did, that would've been the
model number) running Linux, about fifteen years ago. It was great. But
Solaris wasn't mature enough to run (for real) at that time...Nowadays, it
will really put that hardware (even though the E3K is a bit older) through
its paces very, very well.
Further, you can run OpenSXCE on there, and see what ultra-modern Solaris
can do. That would be neat to try.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
11:08 a.m.
New subject: Solaris, was Re: Amazing uptime...
On Apr 3, 2013, at 1:29 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
You can do a "Jumpstart" install (a very
highly-automated form of network
installation )if you have another running Solaris system. If you're
unfamiliar with that and want to do it, contact me privately, I can help.
You can actually jumpstart from an OSX system and a Linux box. There are various tutorials
on this.
And now Sun gear is becoming vintage hardware (gasp) and Solaris and SunOS Vintage OSes.
So it is OT :D I find it hard to believe the E3000 in my basement could be considered
vintage. It is circa 1996 so it's 17 years old :)
11:19 a.m.
New subject: Solaris, was Re: Amazing uptime...
On 04/03/2013 02:08 PM, Jonathan Katz wrote:
Oh that's neat, I didn't know that!
You can do a
"Jumpstart" install (a very highly-automated form of
network installation )if you have another running Solaris system.
If you're unfamiliar with that and want to do it, contact me
privately, I can help.
You can actually jumpstart from an OSX system and a Linux box. There
are various tutorials on this. And now Sun gear is becoming vintage hardware (gasp)
and Solaris and
SunOS Vintage OSes.
No more so than "all Fords are antiques, because there are antique
Fords". Brand new SPARC-based Suns (regardless of the company name on
the sticker) were introduced within the past few weeks, the
UltraSPARC-T5 is pretty damn impresssive. And Solaris...well, there was
a new Solaris release not too long before that.
Unless you just meant "really old Suns" or "really old releases of
Solaris", of course.
So it is OT :D I find it hard to believe the
E3000 in my basement could be considered vintage. It is circa 1996 so
it's 17 years old :)
There's more to "vintage" than just "being old". "We know
it when we
see it". While I love E3Ks and consider them to be cool, I'd
(personally) never consider them to be "vintage". IMO.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
11:27 a.m.
New subject: Solaris, was Re: Amazing uptime...
I don't draw any distinction related to age.
I have everything from a 1972 PDP 8/e to much more recent systems.
My interest is to get?redundant systems?running and keep them running.
?
Some I worked with when they were current and some are just plain interesting.
?
?
________________________________
From: Jonathan Katz <jon at jonworld.com>
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, 3 April 2013, 19:08
Subject: Re: Solaris, was Re: Amazing uptime...
On Apr 3, 2013, at 1:29 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
? You can do a "Jumpstart" install (a very
highly-automated form of network
installation )if you have another running Solaris system.? If you're
unfamiliar with that and want to do it, contact me privately, I can help.
You can actually jumpstart from an OSX system and a Linux box. There are various tutorials
on this.
And now Sun gear is becoming vintage hardware (gasp) and Solaris and SunOS Vintage OSes.
So it is OT :D I find it hard to believe the E3000 in my basement could be considered
vintage. It is circa 1996 so it's 17 years old :)
2 Apr
2 Apr
8:30 a.m.
On Tue, 2 Apr 2013, Sam O'nella wrote:
Has it had a kernel update ever? Uptime can often mean
vulnerable
services too.
It is possible to design a system that does not require rebooting when
replacing a component that is not currently in use.
If the interface of the component is adequately stabilized and documented,
that "not in use" could even be an interrupt.
Memory space garbage collection, when properly done, does NOT require
rebooting.
But systems that screw up on releasing allocated resources when they
are no longer needed, NEED a complete restart periodically.
Can the 13184 iPads be hot-swapped?
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
3 Apr
3 Apr
2:29 p.m.
On 4/2/13 8:30 AM, "Fred Cisin" <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote:
On Tue, 2 Apr 2013, Sam O'nella wrote:
As I understand it, a certain large software company of my acquaintance
uses the mandatory reboot as a convenience, rather than determining
whether affected components are in fact in use. Easier for the programmer
- sorry, user! You don't matter.
Has it had a kernel update ever? Uptime can often
mean vulnerable
services too.
It is possible to design a system that does not require rebooting when
replacing a component that is not currently in use.
If the interface of the component is adequately stabilized and documented,
that "not in use" could even be an interrupt.
Memory space garbage collection, when properly done, does NOT require
rebooting.
But systems that screw up on releasing allocated resources when they
are no longer needed, NEED a complete restart periodically.
2:47 p.m.
On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 5:29 PM, Ian King <IanK at vulcan.com> wrote:
As I understand it, a certain large software company
of my acquaintance
uses the mandatory reboot as a convenience, rather than determining
whether affected components are in fact in use. Easier for the programmer
- sorry, user! You don't matter.
And if you ever lived through a fresh install of Windows 2000 on blank
hardware, you can probably relate to this "joke" we came up with during
the endless cycles of hardware detect/reboot along the way...
"Windows has detected mouse movement. Windows will reboot to commit
this change"
-ethan
4:01 p.m.
------ Original Message ------
From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: 03/04/2013 22:47:48
Subject: Re: Amazing uptime...
On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 5:29 PM, Ian King <IanK at
vulcan.com> wrote:
Whilst some re-boots are still needed Microsoft put a lot of work into
reducing the number needed to install Windows. At 2008R2 it will
sometimes install with a single re-boot. Windows/2000 is ver 10 years
old now, is it "Vintage" yet????
As I understand it, a certain large software
company of my
acquaintance
uses the mandatory reboot as a convenience, rather than determining
whether affected components are in fact in use. Easier for the
programmer
- sorry, user! You don't matter.
And if you ever lived through a fresh install of Windows 2000 on blank
hardware, you can probably relate to this "joke" we came up with during
the endless cycles of hardware detect/reboot along the way...
"Windows has detected mouse movement. Windows will reboot to commit
this change"
-ethan
Dave
G4UGM
5:35 p.m.
On Wed, 3 Apr 2013, Ethan Dicks wrote:
On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 5:29 PM, Ian King <IanK at
vulcan.com> wrote:
My favourite tidbit of this sort of thing is this:
"Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your computer.
Press any key to reboot."
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
As I understand it, a certain large software
company of my acquaintance
uses the mandatory reboot as a convenience, rather than determining
whether affected components are in fact in use. Easier for the programmer
- sorry, user! You don't matter.
And if you ever lived through a fresh install of Windows 2000 on blank
hardware, you can probably relate to this "joke" we came up with during
the endless cycles of hardware detect/reboot along the way...
"Windows has detected mouse movement. Windows will reboot to commit
this change" 
11:54 p.m.
On Wed, Apr 03, 2013 at 06:15:38PM -0700, Fred Cisin wrote:
Those don't surpass the real one:
"No keyboard. Press any key to continue."
This reminds me of one of the most amusing looks I ever received from a PC
tech. I was working as a data entry clerk in freight bill entry somewhere
near the end of the last century. My PC was running a version of Windoze
that would boot without a mouse. I think it was Windoze 95. Anyway, PC
techs from the home office were at the terminal I worked at doing something
to all the PCs. When a tech got to mine he looked around and said, "Um ...
where's your mouse?" When I pointed to the bottom drawer of my desk I think
he almost went into shock. He was lost without a mouse.
To keep this slightly on topic at that time freight bill entry clerks
entered bills into Synergy, a text DOS based program. Each Synergy server
"entered" freight bills into TFMS, a CICS based freight bill rating package,
via three Attachmate sessions. We had four Synergy servers back then. As
for the mainframe Synergy was "entering" bills into we were running MVS on
an IBM 3090. At least I think it was a 3090, I'm not positive. I
eventually made my way from data entry into mainframe operations, and I'm
still working as an operator. Just before I moved into operations we
upgraded to OS/390, and to a large refrigerator sized mainframe with a
yellow "speed bump." I can't remember the model number. We're now
running
z/OS on a 2086 with a copper "speed bump." I wish I had made it into
operations back when the mainframe and its peripherals filled the computer
room.
Sadly we eventually downgraded from the DOS based Synergy to a Windoze
version. I heard it slowed down freight bill entry clerks quite a bit. If
that wasn't bad enough we've now outsourced our freight bill entry to a
company in The Philippines. Aaaaarrrrrggggg!!
--
Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://Lassie.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX
What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
4 Apr
4 Apr
12:47 a.m.
On 04/04/2013 07:54, Kevin Monceaux wrote:
On Wed, Apr 03, 2013 at 06:15:38PM -0700, Fred Cisin
wrote:
I remember being shown an app some one had written to run on Windows
that they wanted to make like DOS.
They wanted to stop everything happening while they waited for a
response from the mainframe.
Well its rather hard to do in a message switch like Windows where each
program has a message queue.
They had removed the mouse and made the app full screen and said they
didn't think any one could now re-size it to do anything else.
Sadly for them the keyboard was the a new style Compaq with the short
space bar and the "alt" key next to it,
I gently brushed the space bar, making sure I grazed the alt key first
to reveal the system menu, with the move and re-size options.
Oh were they upset!
--
Dave Wade G4UGM
Illegitimi Non Carborundum
Those don't surpass the real one:
"No keyboard. Press any key to continue."
This reminds me of one of the
most amusing looks I ever received from a PC
tech. I was working as a data entry clerk in freight bill entry somewhere
near the end of the last century. My PC was running a version of Windoze
that would boot without a mouse. I think it was Windoze 95. Anyway, PC
techs from the home office were at the terminal I worked at doing something
to all the PCs. When a tech got to mine he looked around and said, "Um ...
where's your mouse?" When I pointed to the bottom drawer of my desk I think
he almost went into shock. He was lost without a mouse.
To keep this slightly on topic at that time freight bill entry clerks
entered bills into Synergy, a text DOS based program. Each Synergy server
"entered" freight bills into TFMS, a CICS based freight bill rating package,
via three Attachmate sessions. We had four Synergy servers back then. As
for the mainframe Synergy was "entering" bills into we were running MVS on
an IBM 3090. At least I think it was a 3090, I'm not positive. I
eventually made my way from data entry into mainframe operations, and I'm
still working as an operator. Just before I moved into operations we
upgraded to OS/390, and to a large refrigerator sized mainframe with a
yellow "speed bump." I can't remember the model number. We're now
running
z/OS on a 2086 with a copper "speed bump." I wish I had made it into
operations back when the mainframe and its peripherals filled the computer
room.
Sadly we eventually downgraded from the DOS based Synergy to a Windoze
version. I heard it slowed down freight bill entry clerks quite a bit. If
that wasn't bad enough we've now outsourced our freight bill entry to a
company in The Philippines. Aaaaarrrrrggggg!!
1:28 a.m.
That's a POST error message - nothing to do with Windows.
________________________________
From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com>
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, 4 April 2013, 2:15
Subject: Re: Amazing uptime...
Those don't surpass the real one:
"No keyboard.? Press any key to continue."
"Windows
has detected mouse movement.? Windows will reboot to commit
this change"
"Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your
computer.
Press any key to reboot." 
12:28 p.m.
Those don't surpass the real one:
"No keyboard. Press any key to continue."
IIRC the original message was somethign like
'Keyboard Failure Press F1 to continue'
and it makes rrther more sense. It means the keybaord failed the POST, a
key stuck down wil lcasue that. And in that case, it alerts the user to
get the keybaord fixed (or it alerts the hacker to take the keybaord to
bits), but pressing F1 (assuming that's not rhe faulty eky) wil ltehn
causew the system to boot and you can use it apart from the stuck key.
-tony
1:27 p.m.
On 04/03/2013 08:15 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
Those don't surpass the real one:
"No keyboard. Press any key to continue."
:-)
"Cannot delete <filename>: There is not enough free disk space. Delete one
or more files to free disk space, and then try again" has always made me
chuckle. I think that was Win95 (possibly NT4).
"Windows has detected mouse movement. Windows
will reboot to commit
this change"
"Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your
computer.
Press any key to reboot."
1:46 p.m.
On Thu, 4 Apr 2013, Jules Richardson wrote:
On 04/03/2013 08:15 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
Those don't surpass the real one:
"No keyboard. Press any key to continue."
:-)
"Cannot delete <filename>: There is not enough free disk space. Delete one or
more files to free disk space, and then try again" has always made me
chuckle. I think that was Win95 (possibly NT4).
My all time favorite windows error:
Error: The operation completed successfully.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
"Windows has detected mouse movement. Windows
will reboot to commit
this change"
"Windows has detected that a gnat has farted near your
computer.
Press any key to reboot."
2:23 p.m.
"Cannot delete <filename>: There is not
enough free disk space. Delete one
or more files to free disk space, and then try again" has always made me
chuckle. I think that was Win95 (possibly NT4).
During Windoze 3.10 installation, SMARTDRV was installed. NO, you did not
get a choice, nor configuration options, and it was set for write
cacheing.
"Sector not found during write\nRetry?"
(during one of the last couple of files)
Normally, it could be easily handled by "Ignore", noting which file write
had failed, renaming that file SECTORS.BAD and then manually installing
THAT file. But,
Because wrtite caching was enabled, SMARTDRV had long ago told the
installer that the write had been done. SUCCESSFULLY Therefore,
"Ignore" was not an option.
"Abort" was not an option.
"Fail" was not an option.
Control could be regained by power cycling the machine. But, because the
mode of write caching included re-arranged writes, the DIRectory entries
had not been written. Power cycling brought you all the way back to
before INSTALL.
SSTOR and SPINRITE could not find the drive fault!
But, it happened consistently, and at the same point.
Solution was to copy some dummy files to the disk, so that the fault would
occur at a different part of the INSTALL.
I encountered it during BETA of 3.10. I contacted Beta Support.
They said, "well, it's a hardware problem; we don't care about it."
I pointed out to them that a "hardware problem" during delayed writes was
a MAJOR disaster, and that we rely on the OS to enable us to recover or
work around them. "We absolutely need to have a way to disable
delayed writes." "Hardware fault; not our problem." They dropped me from
subsequent Beta programs, probably due to my bad attitude (MS "Beta"
wanted CHEERLEADERS, NOT faultfinders! For MY Beta testing, I hired a
guy who could break a crowbar in a sandbox) Not much later, MS had to
replace all of 6.00 with 6.2x due ENTIRELY to SMARTDRV delayed writes.
(NO, it was NEVER a problem with "compression". EVERY error being blamed
on "compression" was delayed writes." (cf. Swaine(Infoworld)/Gates
flames))
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
2 Apr
2 Apr
9:10 a.m.
------ Original Message ------
From: "Sam O'nella" <barythrin at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: 02/04/2013 16:04:41
Subject: Re: Amazing uptime...
Has it had a kernel update ever? Uptime can often mean
vulnerable
services too.
Its netware, it will stay up for ever. I have found "lost and forgotton"
netware servers in all sorts of odd places. I do remember one server
that was re-booted after a power outage and it failed to come back. They
had run out of disk space so had deleted some "old files" that no one
seemed to use. They were the drivers for the tape drive. Ho Hum....
Dave
G4UGM
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com>
Sender: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.orgDate: Tue, 02 Apr 2013 10:42:37
To: General Discussion On-Topic and Off-Topic
Posts<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Amazing uptime...
On 04/02/2013 10:36 AM, Fred Cisin wrote:
How can anybody get amazing uptime, if the suits
and contracts
dismantle
"obsolete" four year old systems?
Surely it will be less than 4 years before Apple declares the current
models "obsolete", and the 13,000 iPads need to be replaced.
Smart people get the amazing uptime. Sheep, and people who work in
companies whose purchasing agents who get kickbacks from
salesmen...they don't.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
8:09 a.m.
> How can anybody get amazing uptime, if the suits
and contracts dismantle
> "obsolete" four year old systems?
> Surely it will be less than 4 years before Apple declares the current
> models "obsolete", and the 13,000 iPads need to be replaced.
On Tue,
2 Apr 2013, Dave McGuire wrote:
Smart people get the amazing uptime. Sheep, and
people who work in
companies whose purchasing agents who get kickbacks from salesmen...they
don't.
How much trouble would we get into for hanging onto and using those 184
iPads, when the other 13,000 of the 13184 get crushed?
I guess that I know the answer to that - they tried to fire Monte for
dumpster diving, and before holding the hearing, they dumpstered his
collection and cleared his office and store-roomS.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
8:53 a.m.
It was thus said that the Great Fred Cisin once stated:
How can anybody get amazing uptime, if the suits and
contracts dismantle
"obsolete" four year old systems?
Surely it will be less than 4 years before Apple declares the current
models "obsolete", and the 13,000 iPads need to be replaced.
To get amazing uptimes, just ensure your servers are sealed behind
drywall:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/04/12/missing_novell_server_discovered_af…
-spc (Best personal uptime for a server---336 days)
9:16 a.m.
Sean Conner wrote:
It was thus said that the Great Fred Cisin once
stated:
I had something similar happen at IBM with a PS/2 Model 80.
Peace... Sridhar
How can anybody get amazing uptime, if the suits
and contracts dismantle
"obsolete" four year old systems?
Surely it will be less than 4 years before Apple declares the current
models "obsolete", and the 13,000 iPads need to be replaced.
To get amazing uptimes, just ensure your servers are sealed behind
drywall:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/04/12/missing_novell_server_discovered_af…
4281
days inactive
4285
days old
100 comments
37 participants
participants (37)
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cisin＠xenosoft.com -
dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com -
dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu -
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fuuzetsu＠fuuzetsu.co.uk -
geneb＠deltasoft.com -
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