I practically grew up with the surplus market. I've been buying and selling stuff related to it for nearly 20 years. I'd like to take a moment and add my own thoughts to the thread. Bear in mind that said thoughts are the product of late-night ramblings after a long day. Take them however you please, or ignore them. I won't mind either way. I hate to say it, but these days it all comes down to money. Many of the real 'tinkerers' of years past are gone, and some of those tinkerers, I'm convinced, ran (or helped to run) surplus stores during earlier (and, IMO, somewhat happier) times. Now, greed is running rampant, and its not limited to the surplus field either. Anyway... back in the 70's and early 80's, deals that most of us would consider pretty darn good were relatively easy to come by in both computing and military surplus hardware. It was not at all uncommon for dealers to help out folks they knew were truly interested, even if it meant selling something intact for a little less than they might have been able to get if they scrapped it out. During the late 80's to now, that mindset seemed to undergo a radical change. Surplus stuff was, and is, still available, but prices have shot through the roof in many cases, while the variety of stuff, and the quality thereof, have declined significantly. I blame this mainly on two things: The "PC Revolution" and the prevalent attitudes in our public school system. 1). The "PC Revolution." The advent of PCs did a lot to bring cheap computing power into the hands of home users. The problem here is that consumer pressure pushed PCs from well-built reliable systems into cheesy 'commodity' electronics that could be quickly and easily mass-produced. Such mass production and cheap availability removed much of the incentive folks once had to learn about basic electronics, digital circuitry, etc. This means demand for certain types of surplus, such as component parts and some types of test gear, slacked off. Why? Because those who might have gotten into the field as a hobby settled for buying consumer-grade crap off-the-shelf, no matter how cheesily it might have been built, instead of modifying existing equipment, or building their own device. In short: Somewhere along the line, quality, serviceability, functionality, and longevity became less important than cosmetic appearance and ease of operation. Surplus places are often choked with equipment that was never designed to last more than a couple of years. 2). Schools: The labels of 'geek,' 'nerd,' and other such epithets have been flying around our public school system for decades, along with a social climate that, for reasons I've still not figured out, seems to actively discourage curiousity, hands-on engineering skills, and pursuit of interests in the physical sciences. Fewer people in the sciences means fewer would-be engineers and technicians. This also means fewer people who are likely to want to tinker with anything other than "politically correct" technology (again, PCs, because they're often plug-and-pray). Where I'm going with this: Demand for 'commodity' surplus (PC parts) shoots on past demand for equipment that may be more reliable, or more rewarding as far as gaining a virtually free technical education goes, but that actually requires some degree of technical skill to repair or use. I believe these attitudes have spawned a new generation of surplus dealers who, in many cases, know darn little about what they may have except how much they can make off it if they scrap it, or sell the parts to another reseller. Greed is, unfortunately, running rampant, and many good machines have suffered, and likely will continue to suffer, as a result. The best possible thing I think we can all do is keep rescuing what you can. Keep educating those who are curious about what you do, why you do it, and why those who are curious should be interested in tech history. If you meet up with someone who shows interest in the field, point them in a good direction to develop it! The worst possible thing I think any of us can do is alienate the very people who have access to "classic" equipment, and the power to decide what's done with it. This includes spewing vitriol at dealers via E-mail or in person, or treating what any of us might consider a "dumb" question from a curious youngster or adult as just that. As has been said before, "The only truly stupid question is the one that you keep to yourself." There are, and will always be, exceptions. The fellow who brought out a perfectly usable piece of gear, only to beat it to bits with a sledgehammer in front of the buyer, should be shown no mercy whatsoever. There's just no excuse for wanton destruction or waste in the name of spite. People who show little interest in a system other than "Can it run Windows?" may be beyond help. HOWEVER... I would not be sitting here now and typing this had it not been for several very wise and patient people who inspired me to pursue electronics as both a hobby and career. If I can, within my lifetime, inspire even one other person to follow a similar course, and to fight back against peer pressure, I'll be a happy camper. Keep the peace(es). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."