3 Jan
2007
3 Jan
'07
noon
Hi all,
Today, Sellam and I confirmed Chuck Peddle as the keynote speaker for VCF
East 4.0. There will be other notable early Commodore computer people as
well. Just as VCF 9.0 celebrated the 30th anniversary of Apple, at East 4.0
we'll do Commodore!
The show is Saturday, June 9, starting at 9:30am. The Commodore panel will
be from 10:30-12 followed by Chuck et al signing autographs.
We still might expand the show to Sunday, June 10 as well. To be
determined.
Of course there will be plenty of other cool things and people beside
Peddle. For example, we found a guy who worked closely with John Mauchly,
and he might be a speaker for us. Talk about being one degree removed from
history!
- Evan
26 Jan
26 Jan
1:02 p.m.
New subject: VCF East 4.0 update -- Commodore Pet 30th bday party w/ Chuck Peddle
Another update for VCF East 4.0 .... In addition to Chuck Peddle, our panel
(in the morning of June 9) will feature Bil Herd, Bob Russell, and Dave
Haynie .... Along with several of the early models (and even some ultra-rare
prototypes) on display .... In case the panelists have a sudden urge to demo
anything.
ALSO: there WILL be a second day! The official dates are now June 9-10.
Location: InfoAge Science Center (www.infoage.org), Wall, N.J. ....
Sponsored once again by MARCH (www.midatlanticretro.org).
28 Jan
28 Jan
6:40 a.m.
New subject: Help with classic Apple powerbook/OS
I'm looking for a bit of help from someone knowledgeable on
MacOS 7 and/or 8.
I bought a Powerbook 150 years ago and my brother has been using
it for years in the studio to run the MIDI sequencer FreeStyle.
The PB 150 recently died and I bought a couple of Powerbook 540c
on eBay to replace it.
My current problem list:
1. My AppleCD 600e (which works fine on the PB 150) does
not show up on either of the PB 540c, so I have no way
to read CDs on the 540c machines.
2. FreeStyle uses FreeMidi to talk to a MIDI interface over
the modem/printer port. This was a complete pain to setup
on the PB 150 as there were bugs (possibly MacOS 7 related)
which made the natural automated MIDI configuration fail
to work and hang the computer.
Setting up FreeMidi on the 540c running MacOS 7.5 has
similar problems. Setting up FreeMidi on the 540c running
MacOS 8 does not have these problems (which is why I
think it is probably MacOS7 related). I am unable to make
either 540c talk properly to the MIDI interface such that
it sees the various MIDI keyboards, etc.
3. I thought that updating the version of FreeMidi from 1.3
to the latest 1.48 would be a good idea. The image size
is 4Mb, which does not fit onto a floppy. On my PC: I
downloaded HS Split for my PC and Chunk Joiner for the
Mac, split the FreeMidi 1.48 image into 4 chunks and
wrote it to PC floppies along with the Chunk Joiner binary.
After reading all of the files onto the MacOS7 540c, I
tried to run the Chunk Joiner program, but the 540c doesn't
think that the file is an executable. I have no idea how to
change this on a Mac.
4. I know very few people who use Macs and of them, most
have no clue about using older MacOS classic versions
or how to do the stuff I'm trying to do.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
--tnx
--tom
7:28 a.m.
New subject: Help with classic Apple powerbook/OS
I bought a Powerbook 150 years ago and my brother has
been using
it for years in the studio to run the MIDI sequencer FreeStyle.
The PB 150 recently died and I bought a couple of Powerbook 540c
on eBay to replace it.
My current problem list:
1. My AppleCD 600e (which works fine on the PB 150) does
not show up on either of the PB 540c, so I have no way
to read CDs on the 540c machines.
This sounds like an Extension problem. Do you have all the CD extensions
installed on the 540c? I don't remember them off the top of my head, but
they're things like Apple CD, Hi-Sierra, etc.
I assume you are using the same cable (HDI-30 to "Centronics" SCSI).
2. FreeStyle uses FreeMidi to talk to a MIDI interface
over
the modem/printer port. This was a complete pain to setup
on the PB 150 as there were bugs (possibly MacOS 7 related)
which made the natural automated MIDI configuration fail
to work and hang the computer.
Setting up FreeMidi on the 540c running MacOS 7.5 has
similar problems. Setting up FreeMidi on the 540c running
MacOS 8 does not have these problems (which is why I
think it is probably MacOS7 related). I am unable to make
either 540c talk properly to the MIDI interface such that
it sees the various MIDI keyboards, etc.
I haven't had much experience with FreeMIDI; I've always used Open Music
System. The current version is 2.3.8 but I don't remember if OMS is PPC only.
It is freely downloadable -- at worst it just won't install. I looked at my
backup installer in HexEdit and didn't see anything that implied it was PPC
only, but I really don't know for sure.
How did you get Mac OS 8 installed on the 540c without a CD??
3. I thought that updating the version of FreeMidi
from 1.3
to the latest 1.48 would be a good idea. The image size
is 4Mb, which does not fit onto a floppy.
I suspect this problem will be solved when you get the CD working :)
--
--------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ ---
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- This message will self-destruct in five seconds. Good luck, Jim. -- M:I ----
8:14 a.m.
New subject: Help with classic Apple powerbook/OS
Cameron Kaiser wrote:
I don't recall there being any extensions that were CD related. Would
they have come with the default OS install?
And how does an extension affect the ability to boot from the CD? I
would have thought that the boot ROM code would have to know about
the CD without the aid of an extension...
One 540c came with 7.5 installed and the other with 8.0. I have not
upgraded either OS, primarily because of the lack of 600e support.
How does the working CD solve my problem? I realize that I will be
able to write a large file on my PCs CD-RW, but will the MacOS be
able to read the file structure? And if it does, will it handle
the file type problem correctly? The new FreeMidi version is a .hqx
file. Will the OS know what to do with that or will I have to get
some Stuffit type thing to take it apart?
This is exceedingly frustrating, especially as Macs are touted as
being straight forward. I have to admit that in my experience over
the years, they have never lived up to that name, but then I guess
I try to do things which are less than mainstream.
Thanks for your help!
--tom
I bought a
Powerbook 150 years ago and my brother has been using
it for years in the studio to run the MIDI sequencer FreeStyle.
The PB 150 recently died and I bought a couple of Powerbook 540c
on eBay to replace it.
My current problem list:
1. My AppleCD 600e (which works fine on the PB 150) does
not show up on either of the PB 540c, so I have no way
to read CDs on the 540c machines.
This sounds like an Extension problem. Do you have all the CD extensions
installed on the 540c? I don't remember them off the top of my head, but
they're things like Apple CD, Hi-Sierra, etc. I assume you are using the same cable (HDI-30 to
"Centronics" SCSI).
Yes, I'm using the funny Apple SCSI cable. It is the same cable/setup
that works fine with the PB 150. Perhaps the 600e is just too new for
the 540c, but the PB 150 came out in 1994 and the PB 540c was certainly
in about that same time frame. The AppleCD 600e came out in 1995, so
maybe that is the problem. I guess I should pick up an AppleCD 300
to see if that works better.
2. FreeStyle
uses FreeMidi to talk to a MIDI interface over
the modem/printer port. This was a complete pain to setup
on the PB 150 as there were bugs (possibly MacOS 7 related)
which made the natural automated MIDI configuration fail
to work and hang the computer.
Setting up FreeMidi on the 540c running MacOS 7.5 has
similar problems. Setting up FreeMidi on the 540c running
MacOS 8 does not have these problems (which is why I
think it is probably MacOS7 related). I am unable to make
either 540c talk properly to the MIDI interface such that
it sees the various MIDI keyboards, etc.
I haven't had much experience with FreeMIDI; I've always used Open Music
System. The current version is 2.3.8 but I don't remember if OMS is PPC only.
It is freely downloadable -- at worst it just won't install. I looked at my
backup installer in HexEdit and didn't see anything that implied it was PPC
only, but I really don't know for sure.
How did you get Mac OS 8 installed on the 540c without a CD?? 3. I thought
that updating the version of FreeMidi from 1.3
to the latest 1.48 would be a good idea. The image size
is 4Mb, which does not fit onto a floppy.
I suspect this problem will be solved when you get the CD working :)
8:44 a.m.
New subject: Help with classic Apple powerbook/OS
> > 1. My AppleCD 600e (which works fine on the
PB 150) does
> > not show up on either of the PB 540c, so I have no way
> > to read CDs on the 540c machines.
This sounds
like an Extension problem. Do you have all the CD extensions
installed on the 540c? I don't remember them off the top of my head, but
they're things like Apple CD, Hi-Sierra, etc.
I don't recall there being any extensions that were CD related. Would
they have come with the default OS install? And how does an extension affect the ability to boot
from the CD? I
would have thought that the boot ROM code would have to know about
the CD without the aid of an extension...
It will boot from any generic SCSI device assuming it is an HFS file
system, including a CD, and exports a blocksize it can understand (you
use the "snag keys" to tell the Boot ROM to boot over external SCSI). However,
it will not be able to do "CD things" (like eject) in MacOS, or at least not
without a lot of work, and it will not understand other filesystems (i/o/w,
it will treat it like a slow read-only hard disk).
You *may* be able to get around this by having the CD plugged in, turned
on and the disc in, and then booting the Mac. If the CD in the drive does
not automatically appear as a mounted device, a tool like SCSIProbe or
Mt Everything will find it and may allow you to mount it without a driver.
However, the filesystem must still be HFS -- it will not read ISO 9660
without an extension. Also, you will have to mount and dismount it manually.
I assume you
are using the same cable (HDI-30 to "Centronics" SCSI).
Yes, I'm using the funny Apple SCSI cable. It is the same cable/setup
that works fine with the PB 150. Perhaps the 600e is just too new for
the 540c, but the PB 150 came out in 1994 and the PB 540c was certainly
in about that same time frame. The AppleCD 600e came out in 1995, so
maybe that is the problem. I guess I should pick up an AppleCD 300
to see if that works better. > > 2. FreeStyle uses FreeMidi to talk to a MIDI
interface over
[...]
> I haven't had much experience with FreeMIDI;
I've always used Open Music
> System.
[...]
How did you
get Mac OS 8 installed on the 540c without a CD??
One 540c came with 7.5 installed and the other with 8.0. I have not
upgraded either OS, primarily because of the lack of 600e support. > > 3. I thought that updating the version of
FreeMidi from 1.3
> > to the latest 1.48 would be a good idea. The image size
> > is 4Mb, which does not fit onto a floppy.
> I suspect this problem will be solved when you
get the CD working :)
How does the working CD solve my problem? I realize
that I will be
able to write a large file on my PCs CD-RW, but will the MacOS be
able to read the file structure? And if it does, will it handle
the file type problem correctly? The new FreeMidi version is a .hqx
file. Will the OS know what to do with that or will I have to get
some Stuffit type thing to take it apart?
As long as you put the .hqx on the CD, and the CD is ISO 9660, it will
work fine on the Mac. (Don't use Joliet long-filename extensions.) This
assumes you have, again, all the right extensions installed.
Once you copy the .hqx to the Mac, then StuffIt Expander will turn it
back into a proper binary with both resource forks intact, so yes, you
will need that on the other side. StuffIt Expander 5.5 should work on any
68K Mac running System 7 or later and will unStuff all but the latest
.sitx files. (For this reason, I don't use .sitx.)
This is exceedingly frustrating, especially as Macs
are touted as
being straight forward. I have to admit that in my experience over
the years, they have never lived up to that name, but then I guess
I try to do things which are less than mainstream.
I liken what you're doing to jumping onto another freeway from an overpass
... it takes a little while to get your legs back under you. :)
Plus, in an entirely Mac ecosystem like I have here (almost every system here
is a Mac from System 6 to Tiger 10.4.8, except the Commodores, of course, and
a couple DOS PCs), these tasks are easy. All of them support HFS, so
file interchange is a snap, and hardware of the same generation are often
interchangeable. It's jumping back and forth from a PC ecosystem to
a "couple token Macs" that causes problems because the interchange path is
much less smooth for both hardware and software, and people usually blame
the Mac because it's the different one (IMHO unjustifiably).
It's much easier to have a Mac ecosystem and a couple token PCs, because
Macs will read FAT, FAT32 and NTFS (and can write FAT and FAT32), and Macs
can speak most Windows protocols (natively in OS X, and with software in OS
9).
Granted, I'm at an advantage because I have a full LocalTalk network in
parallel to my Ethernet network, and a system entirely dedicated to serving
Classic clients. Your 150 would be happy as a clam in this world and would,
indeed, "just work." On the other hand, I do concede that it needed some
investment in time and hardware to set up, and it's worth it to me because
I have so many Classic Macs, but it might be worth it for others.
Doesn't make it any less frustrating for you, of course ...
Thanks for your help!
No sweat!
--
--------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ ---
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Po-Ching Lives! ------------------------------------------------------------
11:11 a.m.
New subject: Help with classic Apple powerbook/OS
At 10:14 AM -0600 1/28/07, Tom Uban wrote:
Cameron Kaiser wrote:
I don't recall there being any extensions that were CD related. Would
they have come with the default OS install?
Maybe, maybe not, it's been about 12 years so the memory is pretty
foggy about the CD-ROM extensions. However, the 540c would have
shipped with System 7.1, and had disk images for System 7.5 (I
believe 7.5.3) on the Hard Drive. The system shipped with only 4MB
RAM, which wasn't really enough to run System 7.5. To save RAM
things such as the CD-ROM extensions would have been left out if not
needed.
I bought
a Powerbook 150 years ago and my brother has been using
it for years in the studio to run the MIDI sequencer FreeStyle.
The PB 150 recently died and I bought a couple of Powerbook 540c
on eBay to replace it.
My current problem list:
1. My AppleCD 600e (which works fine on the PB 150) does
not show up on either of the PB 540c, so I have no way
to read CDs on the 540c machines.
This sounds like an Extension problem. Do you have all the CD extensions
installed on the 540c? I don't remember them off the top of my head, but
they're things like Apple CD, Hi-Sierra, etc. And how does an extension affect the ability to boot
from the CD? I
would have thought that the boot ROM code would have to know about
the CD without the aid of an extension...
The extensions are for the different formats, I think there are a
total of 4 extensions.
Yes, I'm using the funny Apple SCSI cable. It is the same cable/setup
that works fine with the PB 150. Perhaps the 600e is just too new for
the 540c, but the PB 150 came out in 1994 and the PB 540c was certainly
in about that same time frame. The AppleCD 600e came out in 1995, so
maybe that is the problem. I guess I should pick up an AppleCD 300
to see if that works better.
That isn't the problem, the 600e should work, it was out when I
bought my 520c new (I now have a 540c as it was cheaper than
replacing the dead screen on the 520c years ago).
One 540c came with 7.5 installed and the other with
8.0. I have not
upgraded either OS, primarily because of the lack of 600e support.
System 7.5.3 is a floppy install, while I believe System 8 is CD-ROM.
Do you have TCP/IP working on either system? If so download the
needed disk images from Apple, and copy them over the network.
How does the working CD solve my problem? I realize
that I will be
able to write a large file on my PCs CD-RW, but will the MacOS be
able to read the file structure? And if it does, will it handle
the file type problem correctly? The new FreeMidi version is a .hqx
file. Will the OS know what to do with that or will I have to get
some Stuffit type thing to take it apart?
Will the 600e drive read CD-RW disk? It might not even read CD-R's
(I honestly don't know, but that vintage of drive can have such
issues).
There is another way you can attempt this. Get a copy of ARDI
Executor http://www.ardi.com/ardi.php and use it to copy the data
from a PC to Mac formatted floppies. Back when I was
in the Navy, I
had a P90 laptop that I could get online under Windows 3.11 with via
a 14.4k PCMCIA modem, and I'd then boot into Linux and run Executor
to write Mac software I'd downloaded to Mac formatted floppies that
my PowerBook 520c would read. I had both a current PC laptop and a
current Mac laptop onboard ship for my last year in. The PC laptop
was actually the most powerful PC onboard during that time.
This is exceedingly frustrating, especially as Macs are
touted as
being straight forward. I have to admit that in my experience over
the years, they have never lived up to that name, but then I guess
I try to do things which are less than mainstream.
Audio software on Mac's of that Vintage are a serious PITA. The
other problem I think you're running into is a serious lack of the
install media that someone that bought the system new would have had.
Might not hurt to pick up a book on Mac's of that Vintage as well.
Today I'm debating trying to resurrect my PowerMac 8500/180, or just
going out and buying a new Firewire Audio interface for a project I
have. As the new interface is plug-and-play I'm leaning towards it,
besides I wouldn't have to find room to setup my old 8500.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
10:57 a.m.
New subject: Help with classic Apple powerbook/OS
On Sun, 2007-01-28 at 08:40 -0600, Tom Uban wrote:
I bought a Powerbook 150 years ago . . .
Holy Lord.... That's an OLD computer! <rimshot>
Unable to Resist,
Warren E. Wolfe
wizard at voyager.net
29 Jan
29 Jan
9:14 a.m.
New subject: Help with classic Apple powerbook/OS
LOL! It took me a few reads of that sentence before it
hit me over the head and now I cannot stop laughing...
--tom
Warren Wolfe wrote:
On Sun, 2007-01-28 at 08:40 -0600, Tom Uban wrote:
I bought a Powerbook 150 years ago . . .
Holy Lord.... That's an OLD computer! <rimshot>
Unable to Resist,
Warren E. Wolfe
wizard at voyager.net
6541
days inactive
6567
days old
8 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
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evan＠snarc.net -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
spectre＠floodgap.com -
uban＠ubanproductions.com -
wizard＠voyager.net