29 May
2012
29 May
'12
6:51 p.m.
Why would someone buy a vintage computer advertised as "for parts" and
then complain to the buyer that it doesn't work?
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
7:42 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Griffith" <dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu>
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 9:51 PM
Subject: a for-parts machine doesn't work
Why would someone buy a vintage computer advertised as "for parts" and
then complain to the buyer that it doesn't work?
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
Depends on how it was advertised I would think. Sellers like to say the
system worked until it was parted out making people think if you replace the
parts it will work again. If you state it is in unknown condition for parts
only then the buyer can't bitch.
11:47 p.m.
E-Bay has/had an item condition code that had to be selected when listing.
Many vintage sellers select "used" which implies it works, and then go onto
say it doesn't work in the description. This violates e-bay rules and e-bay
may find in favour of the buyer.
I hope this quote comes out in the right place but my smart phone wont let
me choose.
On 30 May 2012 03:45, "TeoZ" <teoz at neo.rr.com> wrote:
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Griffith" <dgriffi at
cs.csubak.edu>
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 9:51 PM
Subject: a for-parts machine doesn't work
Why would someone buy a vintage computer advertised as "for parts" and
then complain to the b...
Depends on how it was advertised I would think. Sellers like to say the
system worked until it was parted out making people think if you replace
the parts it will work again. If you state it is in unknown condition for
parts only then the buyer can't bitch.
30 May
30 May
11:37 a.m.
Depends on how it was advertised I would think.
Sellers like to say the
system worked until it was parted out making people think if you replace the
The one that amuses me is 'Worked fine the last ime I used it'. Of coruse
it did. You couldn't have used it if it wasn't working :-). It doesn't
mean it's not fialed since then (and inded that the seller hasn't tried
it, foudn it doesnt; work and is thuse selling it).
It's like 'No User Serviceable Parts Inside'. Technically that's true,
even for people like me. If I am servicing it, it's in bits all over the
bench so I can't be using it and thus am not a user.
-tony
1:30 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
:-)
Better than a user is telling you "I've already fastened all the loose
screws inside, but it doesn't wort eihter..."
..if the thing is a old radio and the loose screws are the filter coil
cores...
Regard,s
HroOlm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
Depends on how
it was advertised I would think. Sellers like to say the
system worked until it was parted out making people think if you replace the
The one that amuses me is 'Worked fine the last ime I used it'. Of coruse
it did. You couldn't have used it if it wasn't working :-). It doesn't
mean it's not fialed since then (and inded that the seller hasn't tried
it, foudn it doesnt; work and is thuse selling it).
It's like 'No User Serviceable Parts Inside'. Technically that's true,
even for people like me. If I am servicing it, it's in bits all over the
bench so I can't be using it and thus am not a user.
-tony
31 May
31 May
11 a.m.
Better than a user is telling you "I've
already fastened all the loose
screws inside, but it doesn't wort eihter..."
..if the thing is a old radio and the loose screws are the filter coil
cores...
'I've tightened up all the loose screws including those crumbly grey
ones'. Those being the ferrite cores, of course. Do that on certain old
mdems (to keep this on-topic), and whoever gets to fix it will ahve a
nice long day with 'scope and sig-gen ;-)
While I would never claim that only 'authorised service personnel' should
try to fix things (for obvious reasons...), I do prefer it if repairers
are somewhat clueful. And I'd much rather have to repair a single
'natural' fault that assorted 'man made' ones...
When I buy old UK telephones (another of my interests) I prefer ones that
have not been converted to the 'modern' (1980) plug-in wiring system. For
at least 3 reasons : They probably haven't been messed about in other
ways; If they once had interersting extra facilities (swithces, etc),
they will be intact, and most of the time I actually _want_ those; and
since they can't just be pluged in and used, they tend to be a lot cheaper...
-tony
30 May
30 May
2:20 p.m.
On 30 May 2012 at 19:37, Tony Duell wrote:
The one that amuses me is 'Worked fine the last
ime I used it'. Of
coruse it did. You couldn't have used it if it wasn't working :-). It
doesn't mean it's not fialed since then (and inded that the seller
hasn't tried it, foudn it doesnt; work and is thuse selling it).
"Working" has a very loose interpretation on that auction site. The
sales of logic analyzers amuse me by indicating that there are no
pods available, but that it "works". How can they know?
Or perhaps "works" means that the power LED comes on or the fan
spins.
--Chuck
31 May
31 May
11:12 a.m.
On 30 May 2012 at 19:37, Tony Duell wrote:
Well, I suppose if it powers up, gives a reasonable screen display and
reponds to the cotntrols then some of it must be working. On the other
hand, the self-test feature of most LAs also checks that the pods are
working, so without pods it will fail.
The one that amuses me is 'Worked fine the
last ime I used it'. Of
coruse it did. You couldn't have used it if it wasn't working :-). It
doesn't mean it's not fialed since then (and inded that the seller
hasn't tried it, foudn it doesnt; work and is thuse selling it).
"Working" has a very loose interpretation on that auction site. The
sales of logic analyzers amuse me by indicating that there are no
pods available, but that it "works". How can they know?
Or perhaps "works" means that the power LED comes on or the fan
spins.
Or that it didn;'t catch fire or trip breakers?
I've bougth things described as 'wroking' when _no way_ could the seller
have tested them. Fortuantely i never have never been cheated,maybe there
are faults, but the device has been complete and repairable and worth
waht I paid (to me).
-tony
12:24 p.m.
On Thu, 31 May 2012, Tony Duell wrote:
I've bougth things described as 'wroking'
when _no way_ could the seller
have tested them. Fortuantely i never have never been cheated,maybe there
are faults, but the device has been complete and repairable and worth
waht I paid (to me).
Long, long ago, some of our staff (who did not believe that the 5150
would ever be a significant force in the market) bought a whole bunch of
"Quadlink"s (Apple2 on an ISA card). Most (13 out of 20) did not work,
and we sent the DOA ones back to Quadram. Among the "fully tested"
replacements, one had the card edge connector installed wrong, and could
not have been connected for "fully test"ing.
30 May
30 May
4:38 a.m.
--- On Tue, 5/29/12, David Griffith <dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu> wrote:
Why would someone buy a vintage computer advertised as
"for
parts" and then complain to the buyer that it doesn't work?
For the same reason that Hot Pockets come with explicit instructions to remove them from
the box and plastic wrapper before microwaving them. People are very, very stupid.
Of course, people also do not read. Ever been behind someone in the grocery store arguing
with the cashier because they have a coupon that should should make this item free - when
the coupon clearly says "Buy one get one free". And they still don't get
that they have to buy one item before they can have one free - they can't just skip to
the "get one free" part.
As long as the computer was listed as for parts, not working - then hopefully eBay
won't side with them. But, the sad thing is, that I've seen this same thing happen
several times - a board or a computer or other item listed clearly as broken, then the
buyer whines that it doesn't work. Gets their money back, wastes the seller a whole
bunch of time and money - especially when they don't send the item back. Or send back
only part of it.
-Ian
11:33 a.m.
--- On Tue, 5/29/12, David Griffith <dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu> wrote:
Why would someone buy a vintage computer advertised as
"for
parts" and then complain to the buyer that it doesn't work?
What are the rest of the details?
It sounds as though you had a specific incident, that you want us
to comment about, without telling us anything about what happened.
Were there any phrase like "great condition" that would cause
careless readers to ignore the "for parts"?
Was "for parts" mentioned ANYWHERE in the DESCRIPTION? Or are you
expecting people to pay attention to the "Condition:" field in the
"Item Specifics" data box?
Is your question rhetorical??!?
3:16 p.m.
On Wed, 30 May 2012, Fred Cisin wrote:
--- On Tue, 5/29/12, David Griffith <dgriffi at
cs.csubak.edu> wrote:
This is an actual case. The description was as follows:
This is a Commodore SX-64 luggable computer offered for parts. It works,
but has damage to the front bezel and keyboard. The keyboard latches and
blue handle hubs are missing. The keyboard cable pictured is not included.
Otherwise, this computer is is good condition. I was thinking of using
this computer as a source of parts to build a DX-64 (same as SX-64 except
with TWO floppy drives). I don't think I'll be doing that any time soon,
if at all and I need to significantly cut down my inventory, so off to
Ebay it goes!
Rest assured that I will properly wrap this classic computer to avoid any
more damage. Packed, this weighs approximately 27 pounds.
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
Why would someone buy a vintage computer
advertised as "for
parts" and then complain to the buyer that it doesn't work?
What are the rest of the details?
It sounds as though you had a specific incident, that you want us
to comment about, without telling us anything about what happened.
Were there any phrase like "great condition" that would cause
careless readers to ignore the "for parts"?
Was "for parts" mentioned ANYWHERE in the DESCRIPTION? Or are you
expecting people to pay attention to the "Condition:" field in the
"Item Specifics" data box?
Is your question rhetorical??!?
3:48 p.m.
On Wed, 30 May 2012, David Griffith wrote:
This is an actual case. The description was as
follows:
This is a Commodore SX-64 luggable computer offered for parts. It works,
but has damage to the front bezel and keyboard. The keyboard latches and
blue handle hubs are missing. The keyboard cable pictured is not included.
Otherwise, this computer is is good condition. I was thinking of using
this computer as a source of parts to build a DX-64 (same as SX-64 except
with TWO floppy drives). I don't think I'll be doing that any time soon,
if at all and I need to significantly cut down my inventory, so off to
Ebay it goes!
Rest assured that I will properly wrap this classic computer to avoid any
more damage. Packed, this weighs approximately 27 pounds.
--- On Tue, 5/29/12, David Griffith <dgriffi at
cs.csubak.edu> wrote:
> Why would someone buy a vintage computer advertised as "for
> parts" and then complain to the buyer that it doesn't work?
Because your description clearly stated that "it works" and was "in good
condition"! The buyer felt that he could ignore your "for parts",
because from the description, a keyboard cable and some trivial work
(keyboard latches!) would make it fully functional. When it arrived,
it did NOT work, and what sounded like a few minutes work with duct tape
turned out to be <gasp> electronics repair!
You need to downplay the "it works!" and emphasize the "for parts".
Somthing on the order of:
"Although it worked when I tried it, I am selling it strictly for parts,
and can not guarantee any aspect of its performance. I am selling it AS
PARTS for repairing/restoring other similar machines, not as a machine
ready to host your websites! Javascript enabled browser is NOT
available nor included."
4:28 p.m.
Nevertheless, I sympathize.
Selling ANYTHING to a stranger without personal contact is a disadter!
Last year I sold a 23 year old 4WD Toyota Van. I said that it had not
been driven in 2 years, and would not pass smog, probably needing a
catalytic converter. All seats had had covers since new, and there were a
few minor extras - factory service manual, roof-rack, 4 extra rims, etc.
The tires were five year old Michelins with 10,000 miles on them.
The engine, transmission, transfer case, etc. seemed to be in good shape,
with 110,000 miles, but that it would need a new windshield, catalytic
converter and other miscellaneous work before it could be fully usable.
The buyer, who bought it based on plenty of photos, had it shipped to
Vermont, and complained that I hadn't mentioned that it needed to be
washed and vacuumed (one of the phots was of a clump of dog hair on the
shifter), and that it was missing one of the rubber donuts that the
muffler hangs from (which he misquoted his mechanic as saying
"has a hole the size of a donut in the exhaust")
Why bother?
4:42 p.m.
New subject: HP3000 Recycling
They really didn't like that HP3000 I guess. Surprised nobody got hurt
from flying metal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laZGMa4O2X4
31 May
31 May
7:31 a.m.
On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 3:16 PM, David Griffith <dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu> wrote:
This is an actual case. ?The description was as follows:
This is a Commodore SX-64 luggable computer offered for parts. It works, but
has damage to the front bezel and keyboard. The keyboard latches and blue
handle hubs are missing. The keyboard cable pictured is not included.
Otherwise, this computer is is good condition. I was thinking of using this
computer as a source of parts to build a DX-64 (same as SX-64 except with
TWO floppy drives). I don't think I'll be doing that any time soon, if at
all and I need to significantly cut down my inventory, so off to Ebay it
goes!
Rest assured that I will properly wrap this classic computer to avoid any
more damage. Packed, this weighs approximately 27 pounds.
While that description does say "for parts" it also says "it works".
As a buyer based on that description alone I might complain if it
doesn't actually work, unless the only reason it doesn't work is that
there is no keyboard cable included, which is explicitly mentioned.
The only problems explicitly mentioned are mechanical problems "damage
to the front bezel and keyboard", "keyboard latches and blue handle
hubs are missing" that I would not expect to impact the functionality,
assuming a replacment keyboard cable is obtained.
Was there something else that prevented it from working other than a
missing keyboard cable?
11:11 a.m.
On 05/30/2012 05:16 PM, David Griffith wrote:
This is an actual case. The description was as
follows:
This is a Commodore SX-64 luggable computer offered for parts. It works,
but has damage to the front bezel and keyboard.
Oh come on, what a terrible description! I bet they received it, and
quickly discovered that the mouse was missing and that it didn't boot into
Windows when they turned it on. It couldn't be less working if it tried... ;-)
30 May
30 May
5:25 a.m.
Someone stupid enough :)
---
Enviado do meu Motorola PT550
Meu site: http://www.tabalabs.com.br
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Griffith" <dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu>
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 10:51 PM
Subject: a for-parts machine doesn't work
Why would someone buy a vintage computer advertised as "for parts" and
then complain to the buyer that it doesn't work?
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
11:34 a.m.
Why would someone buy a vintage computer advertised as "for parts" and
then complain to the buyer that it doesn't work?
Do you mean 'coplain to the _seller_...' ?
I don;t know... Some people complain about anything...
I try to be reasoanble when I buy such things. I remind myself that I am
buying something that's 30 or 40 years old, and that it's unreasonable to
expect it to look like it's jsut left the factor and it's unreasoanble to
expect it to work perfectly (whatever the description says).
If major parts were missing (and not mentioned/obvious before sale) then
I would certainly comment. If the machine was clearly not the one that
was photographed (e.g. the pictures showed one with all the keycaps
present, when It came it was missing most of them), then again I would
comment.
-tony
4370
days inactive
4371
days old
21 comments
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