11 Jan
2003
11 Jan
'03
8:11 p.m.
All I have to say is WOW!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2300403973
Note: I am not affiliated with this auction in any way and I'm precluded
from bidding because my wife would kill me.
Erik
11 Jan
11 Jan
10:08 p.m.
--- "Erik S. Klein" <classiccmp(a)vintage-computer.com> wrote:
All I have to say is WOW!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2300403973
Agreed... Wow! I wouldn't mind bidding on it, but I suspect that
others here have deeper pockets than I.
-ethan
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12 Jan
12 Jan
4:40 a.m.
--- "Erik S. Klein"
<classiccmp(a)vintage-computer.com> wrote:
And how! Not only do the deeper pockets scare me, but the cost of
shipping, and storage :^) Also worth checking out is the website on it
that he links http://www.agelesswings.com/PDP12/HOME.HTML
Let's just say I'm thankful that he's not listing the documentation
seperatly, as I'd be very tempted to go for a bunch of it!
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
All I have to say is WOW!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2300403973
Agreed... Wow! I wouldn't mind bidding on it, but I suspect that
others here have deeper pockets than I.
-ethan
6:22 a.m.
--- "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> wrote:
Well... shipping isn't too bad for me - I can make it to Rochester
without _too_ much effort (go to Cleveland and turn right), but I'm
sure that it's way out of the way for most of the readers here.
Storage? I'd consider putting my bed in storage and sleeping on the
couch! I'll be following this auction to see where the price (and the
computer) ends up, but unless I'm employed by the end of the week (hah!),
I doubt I'll even make a token bid.
I've always wanted one (my first DEC computer was a PDP-8/L I picked
up over 20 years ago)... well... always as in "since I first heard of
it"
Someone is going to be a very happy camper. Wonder where the reserve
is.
-ethan
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--- "Erik
S. Klein" <classiccmp(a)vintage-computer.com> wrote:
And how! Not only do the deeper pockets scare me, but the cost of
shipping, and storage :^) All I have to say is WOW!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2300403973
Agreed... Wow! I wouldn't mind bidding on it, but I suspect that
others here have deeper pockets than I.
-ethan 
6:45 a.m.
On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Well... shipping isn't too bad for me - I can make
it to Rochester
without _too_ much effort (go to Cleveland and turn right), but I'm
sure that it's way out of the way for most of the readers here.
Storage? I'd consider putting my bed in storage and sleeping on the
couch! I'll be following this auction to see where the price (and the
computer) ends up, but unless I'm employed by the end of the week
(hah!), I doubt I'll even make a token bid.
I've always wanted one (my first DEC computer was a PDP-8/L I picked
up over 20 years ago)... well... always as in "since I first heard of
it"
Someone is going to be a very happy camper. Wonder where the reserve
is.
It looks like Al Kossow is the high bidder now, and he surpased the
reserve. I /was/ really tempted to bid on this, but apart from the
storage and shipping considerations, I don't want to bid against Al.
He's done too much good for the classic computing community as a whole
with his efforts to scan old documentation and get it online. There are
a /lot/ of docs and software being auctioned with this system; I really
hope it ends up in the hands of someone who'll do the right thing with
all of it.
-brian.
6:51 a.m.
--- Brian Chase <vaxzilla(a)jarai.org> wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote:
> > >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2300403973
It looks like Al Kossow is the high bidder now, and he
surpased the
reserve. I /was/ really tempted to bid on this, but apart from the
storage and shipping considerations, I don't want to bid against Al.
He's done too much good for the classic computing community as a whole
with his efforts to scan old documentation and get it online.
Agreed, on both points. Good luck, Al.
-ethan
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7:22 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ethan Dicks" <erd_6502(a)yahoo.com>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: PDP-12 on eBay
--- Brian Chase <vaxzilla(a)jarai.org> wrote:
I haven't a prayer of affording it, let alone talking the wife into letting
me keep it, but I do think that a copy of that CD would be neat to see.
On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote:
> > >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2300403973
It looks like Al Kossow is the high bidder now,
and he surpased the
reserve. I /was/ really tempted to bid on this, but apart from the
storage and shipping considerations, I don't want to bid against Al.
He's done too much good for the classic computing community as a whole
with his efforts to scan old documentation and get it online.
Agreed, on both points. Good luck, Al.
-ethan
Bob
7:07 a.m.
It looks like Al Kossow is the high bidder now, and he
surpased the
This is one system I *REALLY* hope he gets! I want to see scan's of some
of those manuals :^)
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
3:36 p.m.
Zane H. Healy wrote:
>It looks like Al Kossow is the high bidder now, and
he surpased the
This is one system I *REALLY* hope he gets! I want to
see scan's of some
of those manuals :^)
Seems like Al has been outbid, is it time to set up a subscription to
support Al in snagging the machine? I'd be up to subscribing $50 toward
such a project.
--- hbp
3:47 p.m.
Seems like Al has been outbid, is it time to set up a
subscription to
support Al in snagging the machine? I'd be up to subscribing $50 toward
such a project.
Frankly, I think the final bid will be quite a bit more that $5,000.
That IBM 650 on Ebay a while back did not gather anywhere near this much
attention...
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
13 Jan
13 Jan
5:13 a.m.
On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, William Donzelli wrote:
That IBM 650 on Ebay a while back did not gather
anywhere near this much
attention...
There was an IBM 650 on eBay!?
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
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5:29 a.m.
On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, William Donzelli wrote:
That's low. Even for two years ago.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
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There was an
IBM 650 on eBay!?
Two or so years ago - complete with the power unit.
Only two bidders, final bid was $4900.
5:43 a.m.
That's low. Even for two years ago.
Well, too high for me, anyway. I was just starting the business back
then, and could not spend anything near that money.
Just an observation - this does show how DECcentric this list (and
really, most of the big iron retrocomputing folks) is. There have been a
few things pop up like this, on Ebay and elsewhere, but because they were
not from Digital, little attention was given to them. Huge demand
outweighs the supply side. I suppose (PDP-12s actually are not all THAT
rare).
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
5:59 a.m.
William Donzelli wrote:
I think it said 750 made from the PDP-8 FAQ.
Compare that to the thousands of PDP-8's and Tens
of thousands of PDP-11's.
Ben.
That's low.
Even for two years ago.
Well, too high for me, anyway. I was just starting the business back
then, and could not spend anything near that money.
Just an observation - this does show how DECcentric this list (and
really, most of the big iron retrocomputing folks) is. There have been a
few things pop up like this, on Ebay and elsewhere, but because they were
not from Digital, little attention was given to them. Huge demand
outweighs the supply side. I suppose (PDP-12s actually are not all THAT
rare).
6:19 a.m.
I think it said 750 made from the PDP-8 FAQ.
That has nothing to do with how many survived.
Compare that to the thousands of PDP-8's and Tens
of thousands of PDP-11's.
One day at RCS, we went over just how many surviving PDP-12s we know
about. The number was somewhere above 20, maybe up around 25. These
numbers did not include the one just on Ebay, or the three that were
pulled out of Temple a few years back. By now, the number of survivors
might be around 30 - a fine showing for such a large machine.
There actually may be more PDP-12s out there today than there are PDP-8s
or PDP-8/Is. Certainly more than the PDP-8/S or LINC-8 machines.
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
8:22 a.m.
--- William Donzelli <aw288(a)osfn.org> wrote:
There actually may be more PDP-12s out there today
than there are PDP-8s
or PDP-8/Is. Certainly more than the PDP-8/S or LINC-8 machines.
If only I could find a LINC-8. :-/
-ethan
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6:32 a.m.
On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, William Donzelli wrote:
Me too. But it is what I would consider a deserved price.
That's
low. Even for two years ago.
Well, too high for me, anyway. I was just starting the business back
then, and could not spend anything near that money. Just an observation - this does show how DECcentric
this list (and
really, most of the big iron retrocomputing folks) is. There have been a
few things pop up like this, on Ebay and elsewhere, but because they were
not from Digital, little attention was given to them. Huge demand
outweighs the supply side. I suppose (PDP-12s actually are not all THAT
rare).
Actually, this is borne out of ignorance (not necessarily meant to be
insulting) of the overall computing scene of the past 50 years. People in
general just don't know their history, and don't put in the effort to
learn it either, so the sheep effect drives up prices on high profile
things (Altair 8800, PDP-8, etc.) while more technically or historically
interesting pieces get overlooked.
I say, good. If it means someday I might be able to get an IBM 650 for a
song, that's fine. I'll then use that score to tell a story about a
significant machine, and then perhaps raise its profile ;)
I don't think the list is inherently DECcentric. The list is collectively
what its members are. There are more DEC-heads than IBMers here. Get
some more IBMers on board and even it out.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
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International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
7:19 a.m.
> outweighs the supply side. I suppose (PDP-12s
actually are not all THAT
> rare).
True, there are at least two of them locally (unfortunatly/fortunatly, none
of them are in my possession, or available).
I don't think the list is inherently DECcentric.
The list is collectively
what its members are. There are more DEC-heads than IBMers here. Get
some more IBMers on board and even it out.
Could it by chance have something to do with the size of the systems, and
the avaialability of the Operating Systems and software (and even
documentation)? I know that in my case that's the reason for my interest
in DEC over IBM. It's more practical to concentrate on DEC.
For example, I pretty much always pick up any documentation I can find,
I've got probably 5-7 full size bookcases full of DEC documentation (that
doesn't include microfiche and electronic format). For IBM, I've got maybe
a third of one shelf. For DG, I've got a three-ring binder. Admitadly, I
look for DEC doc's, but still even more of it's found me, than I've found
of the other stuff.
OTOH, the first two pieces of my classic computer collection are IBM, a
hand-held card punch (still in almost prefect condition), and a wierd
magtape. I've had both for 20-30 years.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
7:37 a.m.
Could it by chance have something to do with the size
of the systems, and
the avaialability of the Operating Systems and software (and even
documentation)?
Yes, certainly. DECs have mostly been run by bunches of grad students,
nutty profs, wacko scientists, all natural packrats. IBMs, as well as the
rest of the BUNCH, are run by suits. Very different cultures.
For example, I pretty much always pick up any
documentation I can find,
I've got probably 5-7 full size bookcases full of DEC documentation (that
doesn't include microfiche and electronic format). For IBM, I've got maybe
a third of one shelf. For DG, I've got a three-ring binder. Admitadly, I
look for DEC doc's, but still even more of it's found me, than I've found
of the other stuff.
Docs do not seem to be the issue - DAC, IBM, DG, it all seems to have
survived well. If you look for IBM docs, you can get just as overloaded.
OTOH, the first two pieces of my classic computer
collection are IBM, a
hand-held card punch (still in almost prefect condition), and a wierd
magtape. I've had both for 20-30 years.
What is the magtape?
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
9:05 a.m.
William Donzelli wrote:
Also, early IBM was rented, not sold. When you were done with it,
it went back to IBM, not into storage. Fewer systems for hobbyests
to pick up.
Could it by
chance have something to do with the size of the systems, and
the avaialability of the Operating Systems and software (and even
documentation)?
Yes, certainly. DECs have mostly been run by bunches of grad students,
nutty profs, wacko scientists, all natural packrats. IBMs, as well as the
rest of the BUNCH, are run by suits. Very different cultures.
For example, I
pretty much always pick up any documentation I can find,
I've got probably 5-7 full size bookcases full of DEC documentation (that
doesn't include microfiche and electronic format). For IBM, I've got maybe
a third of one shelf. For DG, I've got a three-ring binder. Admitadly, I
look for DEC doc's, but still even more of it's found me, than I've found
of the other stuff.
Docs do not seem to be the issue - DAC, IBM, DG, it all seems to have
survived well. If you look for IBM docs, you can get just as overloaded.
OTOH, the first two pieces of my classic computer
collection are IBM, a
hand-held card punch (still in almost prefect condition), and a wierd
magtape. I've had both for 20-30 years.
What is the magtape?
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
8:19 p.m.
OTOH, the
first two pieces of my classic computer collection are IBM, a
hand-held card punch (still in almost prefect condition), and a wierd
magtape. I've had both for 20-30 years.
What is the magtape?
14 Jan
14 Jan
5:25 a.m.
New subject: IBM Data Cell (was Re: PDP-12 on eBay)
--- "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> wrote:
Sounds like an IBM Data Cell. I forget the model number, but the
nickname was the "Noodle Picker" (or "Noodle Stuffer" when it would
jam).
I have one "noodle", but no box. A buddy of mine here in town got a
handful of them 20 years ago. He laments not grabbing any boxes.
-ethan
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> OTOH, the
first two pieces of my classic computer collection are IBM,
> a hand-held card punch (still in almost prefect condition), and a
> wierd magtape...
about the size of a DECtape, but it's enclosed in a small
clear boxish
enclosure, with tape coming out of one end. 
5:40 a.m.
New subject: Possibly interesting tape drive available
Lloyd at Austin Electronics (www.austinelex.com) has what appears to be a 9
or 7 track tape drive sitting on the shelf. This unit is about 20" high,
12" wide, and 12" deep. The model number is "1053D", and it seems to
be
badged as an "Acknowledge" tape drive (I assume this is a private label, and
not something to do with the roll it was used in). There are no indications
of manufacture on it. It's in a beige powder coated box, and looks like it
was intended to either bolt to the side of something, or free-stand on a
desk. It's definitely not configured for rack mounting. It looks to be
pretty clean, but I know nothing about tape drives. I didn't have my
digital camera with me, so I couldn't take a picture.
If anyone is interested, or perhaps even has an idea what this drive is
from my poor and vaguely worded description, I'd
kind of like to know. If
you're interested in it, call Lloyd. Contact
information is on the web
page.
In talking with him, a few years ago (prolly more like 8 or 10 at this
point), he paid $250 for a room full of junk from Grady Hospital, and wound
up with two IMSAI 8080s, and at least one of them had a dual-drive Helios
setup (oh, how I want a 4 drive unit). The was also telling me about the
PDP-8/I he let go for $50. I was wimpering... I never find deals like
that.
He doesn't buy lots like he used to, but I did tell him that if he finds
anything he's not interested in the bottom of a rack or room full equipment,
to call me. While I may not be able to keep much of it, and least we can
prevent it from being dumpsterized, if it's worth anything to anyone.
--John
5:45 a.m.
New subject: IBM Data Cell (was Re: PDP-12 on eBay)
On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote:
--- "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> wrote:
Sounds like an IBM Data Cell. I forget the model number, but the
nickname was the "Noodle Picker" (or "Noodle Stuffer" when it would
jam).
I have one "noodle", but no box. A buddy of mine here in town got a
handful of them 20 years ago. He laments not grabbing any boxes.
This sounds like the tape for the IBM 3480 (or 3490,etc) tape drives.
We've got a couple drives here for the Administrative group - used to have
more but they went to get salvaged (and I ended up selling the 'drive'
part of the cabinets..) We still have a 3480 and a 3490 here. The 3480
is the size of a washing machine and has a pair of drives - the 3490 is
the size of two side-by-side refrigerators, and has 4 (?) drives and a
large autoloading mechanism.
Pat
--
Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS
Information Technology at Purdue
Research Computing and Storage
http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu
> OTOH,
the first two pieces of my classic computer collection are IBM,
> a hand-held card punch (still in almost prefect condition), and a
> wierd magtape...
about the size of a DECtape, but it's enclosed in a small
clear boxish
enclosure, with tape coming out of one end.
12:20 p.m.
New subject: IBM Data Cell (was Re: PDP-12 on eBay)
--- Patrick Finnegan <pat(a)purdueriots.com> wrote:
So it does. The "clear boxish" part made me think of a data cell, but
I suppose that a 3480 tape would look just like a DECtape (TK50-style,
not reel-to-reel like DECtape I).
-ethan
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--- "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> wrote:
> >> OTOH, the first two pieces of my classic computer collection are
> >> IBM, a hand-held card punch (still in almost prefect condition),
> >> and a wierd magtape...
> about the size of a DECtape, but it's enclosed in a small clear
> boxish enclosure, with tape coming out of one end.
This sounds like the tape for the IBM 3480 (or 3490,etc) tape drives. 
13 Jan
13 Jan
8:47 a.m.
Zane H. Healy wrote:
There's one in the Science Museum (London) collection. It appeared
in Tim Hunkin's "Secret Life of Machines" TV series a few years ago.
--
John Honniball
coredump(a)gifford.co.uk
>outweighs
the supply side. I suppose (PDP-12s actually are not all THAT
>rare).
True, there are at least two of them locally (unfortunatly/fortunatly,
none
of them are in my possession, or available).
9:10 a.m.
I love that series. I hated to see it end, here. I dunno if it's showing
elsewheres. Heck, I'd pay for whole series on DVD, along with The Secret
Life Of Office Machines (make your own fax!)
--John
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On
Behalf Of John Honniball
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 14:47
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: PDP-12 on eBay
Zane H. Healy wrote:
(unfortunatly/fortunatly, none
>>outweighs the supply side. I suppose
(PDP-12s actually are
not all THAT
>rare).
True, there are at least two of them locally of them are in my possession, or available).
There's one in the Science Museum (London) collection. It appeared
in Tim Hunkin's "Secret Life of Machines" TV series a few years ago.
--
John Honniball
coredump(a)gifford.co.uk
5:58 p.m.
On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, John Honniball wrote:
There's one in the Science Museum (London)
collection. It appeared in
Tim Hunkin's "Secret Life of Machines" TV series a few years ago.
Now THAT would be an episode to not miss! I hope they re-air it at some
point (and I somehow catch it when it's on).
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
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* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
5:40 p.m.
On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote:
Could it by chance have something to do with the size
of the systems, and
the avaialability of the Operating Systems and software (and even
documentation)? I know that in my case that's the reason for my interest
in DEC over IBM. It's more practical to concentrate on DEC.
I think it has perhaps more to do with the fact that a lot more people
came up on DEC systems in high school or college, and they were inherently
more accessible and therefore more hackable, and as a result there are
more people desirous of DEC gear to feed their nostalgia.
IBM machines tended to be big power hungry behemoths that stood fixed in a
computer room with a glass wall in front of it, with exceptions being the
1401 and 1620, for which there is certainly a not insignificant collector
base.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
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2:32 p.m.
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5:19 p.m.
On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Tony Duell wrote:
More than that, IBM destroyed a lot of trade-ins and off-lease
hardware, in order to keep the new market up. They _say_ they no longer
do so.
Doc
Just an
observation - this does show how DECcentric this list (and
really, most of the big iron retrocomputing folks) is. There have been a
You've made this comment before, and while I totally agree with it, I
think there are also possible reasons for it :
1) DEC machines tended to be owned, IBM machines were often rented -> DEC
machines were not returned when they were no longer needed, but were
pushed into storerooms, etc. Whereupon mad hackers found them
6:07 p.m.
More than that, IBM destroyed a lot of trade-ins and
off-lease
hardware, in order to keep the new market up. They _say_ they no longer
do so.
Burroughs and Univac were the ones that pulled this stunt, mostly. IBM
did as well, but not nearly as much.
Here is a thought - with all of these theories shooting around about why
minicomputers are so popular - why do DGs and HPs not get the attention
that DECs do? Sure, their market share was smaller (I recall on average,
DG sold only one machine per DEC's five, and HP was maybe a little worse),
but their following today is tiny. What do we have on this list - maybe a
half dozen each of serious DG and HP nuts? Compared to scores of DECnuts?
Once again, just an observation, and not really a slam on DEC.
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
7:53 p.m.
William Donzelli wrote:
Look where Unisys is today :-( They mostly sell intel based stuff. I
know a few years ago they still marketed some A Series machines, but I
think it existed as a carry over from an earlier time.
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA
More than
that, IBM destroyed a lot of trade-ins and off-lease
hardware, in order to keep the new market up. They _say_ they no longer
do so.
Burroughs and Univac were the ones that pulled this stunt, mostly. IBM
did as well, but not nearly as much. 
14 Jan
14 Jan
8:16 a.m.
On Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 12:10 AM, William Donzelli wrote:
Here is a thought - with all of these theories
shooting around about
why
minicomputers are so popular - why do DGs and HPs not get the attention
that DECs do? Sure, their market share was smaller (I recall on
average,
DG sold only one machine per DEC's five, and HP was maybe a little
worse),
but their following today is tiny. What do we have on this list -
maybe a
half dozen each of serious DG and HP nuts? Compared to scores of
DECnuts?
DECnuts. :-) Am I the only one who burst into hysterical laughter
upon reading that?
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars."
St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols
16 Jan
16 Jan
5:26 a.m.
On Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 02:26 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
*snort*...This is hilarious!
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars."
St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols
DECnuts.
:-) Am I the only one who burst into hysterical laughter
upon reading that?
It is better than Big Blue Balls.
(that is the feeling one gets when no cool old IBM stuff hasn't come
into
the collection lately) 
14 Jan
14 Jan
8:14 a.m.
I know for a fact that they keep a fairly large stock here in
Poughkeepsie.
Peace... Sridhar
On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Doc Shipley wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Tony Duell wrote:
More than that, IBM destroyed a lot of trade-ins and off-lease
hardware, in order to keep the new market up. They _say_ they no longer
do so.
Doc
Just an
observation - this does show how DECcentric this list (and
really, most of the big iron retrocomputing folks) is. There have been a
You've made this comment before, and while I totally agree with it, I
think there are also possible reasons for it :
1) DEC machines tended to be owned, IBM machines were often rented -> DEC
machines were not returned when they were no longer needed, but were
pushed into storerooms, etc. Whereupon mad hackers found them 
13 Jan
13 Jan
7:01 p.m.
Unless you're into micros, and I have noticed for all the
kerfaffle about some DEC, VAX, or HP minis, micros get
a good proportion of interest on the list. Some weeks my
finger is on the delete button most of the time, others I
spend much too much time reading the messages.
Lawrence
On 14 Jan 2003, , Tony Duell wrote:
lgwalker@ mts.net
Just an
observation - this does show how DECcentric this
list (and really, most of the big iron retrocomputing
folks) is. There have been a
You've made this comment before, and while I totally agree
with it, I think there are also possible reasons for it :
1) DEC machines tended to be owned, IBM machines were often
rented -> DEC machines were not returned when they were no
longer needed, but were pushed into storerooms, etc.
Whereupon mad hackers found them
2) DEC machines were often managed by hackers (and students,
etc), not the 'IBM priesthood'.
3) IBM development tools were supposedly hard to get, and
didn't always let yuo absh the bare metal
4) DEC machines have _execellent_ technical documentation. I
am told that full schematics of IBM machines of the period,
for example, are a lot harder to find. IBM also used a lot
of their own custom chips which makes reverse-engineering a
little more entertaining if the docs don't exist.
-tony
6:39 a.m.
New subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay)
I curse this day --> Back in college (many years ago, about 1983, before I
got into collecting), I went to the apartment of a fellow compsci major to
quell some beer. In the middle of his living room was a complete IBM system
3, in perfectly mint condition. He told me I could have it if I could get it
out of there. Idiot me said "You gotta be kidding - no thanks". *SIGH*
---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]
7:46 a.m.
New subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay)
I curse this day --> Back in college (many years
ago, about 1983, before I
got into collecting), I went to the apartment of a fellow compsci major to
quell some beer. In the middle of his living room was a complete IBM system
3, in perfectly mint condition. He told me I could have it if I could get it
out of there. Idiot me said "You gotta be kidding - no thanks". *SIGH*
This seems to be a good test to see if you are an official old-timer in
the computer collecting hobby - passing up a free machine that today
people would kill for.
I have been there, many times (IBM, Amdahl, DG). How about others?
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
8 a.m.
New subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay)
I curse this
day --> Back in college (many years ago, about 1983, before I
got into collecting), I went to the apartment of a fellow compsci major to
quell some beer. In the middle of his living room was a complete IBM system
3, in perfectly mint condition. He told me I could have it if I could get it
out of there. Idiot me said "You gotta be kidding - no thanks". *SIGH*
This seems to be a good test to see if you are an official old-timer in
the computer collecting hobby - passing up a free machine that today
people would kill for.
I have been there, many times (IBM, Amdahl, DG). How about others?
11:09 a.m.
New subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay)
Oh, you mean like the day I passed on picking up all
the Sun 2/120 systems...
To my credit, I was more interested in the Sun 1/100U's, but letting the
1's blind me to the 2's was just plain dumb.
I would not really call Sun-2s that rare. They pop up quite often. The
Sun-1/100s are rare, one of the rarest Suns. Don't kick yourself.
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
8:08 a.m.
New subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay)
On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, William Donzelli wrote:
This seems to be a good test to see if you are an official old-timer in
the computer collecting hobby - passing up a free machine that today
people would kill for.
I gave my Bendix G-15 to a guy (years ago) because I was living in an
upstairs apartment and there was no way it was going up there. And yes, we
had it working...
begin (dumb_shit)
class = Who_Knew_?
for {retribution = 1 to N}
{N = a_very_big_integer}
DO:
(kick) OUCH!
ENDO
next {N}
end (moron!)
Cheers (sorta)
John
8:40 a.m.
New subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay)
Yeah, got another horror story. I traded an apple II+ to my college comp sci
instructor for a complete microdata M1600 reality system, and a Data General
Nova 3 cpu only. I kept the M1600 for a few years, it served me well as to
future employment. But I looked at the Nova 3 cpu sitting in a box a few
days later and decided it was junk and pitched it. Yes, I deserve to be
beaten :\ And even worse, I let that beautiful M1600 get pitched later...
and it had a wooden front panel! GRRRR Ok, time to go get a memory block,
I'd rather not remember these things.
Jay West
---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]
5:19 p.m.
New subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay)
On Monday, January 13, 2003, Jay West wrote:
But I looked at the Nova 3 cpu sitting in a box a few
days later and
decided it was junk and pitched it. Yes, I deserve to be beaten :\
Hey, I just passed on a Nova 3 a month ago at the university surplus. Of
course, it did come non-negotiably with 3 pallets of huge equipment that
were beyond my capacity in mass, size, and price, and time. It was rather
pristine, too. :-(
--
Jeffrey Sharp
5:15 p.m.
New subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay)
On Monday, January 13, 2003, William Donzelli wrote:
This seems to be a good test to see if you are an
official old-timer in
the computer collecting hobby - passing up a free machine that today
people would kill for.
I might not *kill* for a TI 9900 (?) mini, but I let one go from my school
to the landfill when I was in the seventh grade. So by your definition I'm
only 23.9 but yet still an old-timer!
--
Jeffrey Sharp
5:41 p.m.
New subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay)
On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, William Donzelli wrote:
I haven't. I always accepted the machine (much to the chagrin of my
poor mother ;)
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
I curse this
day --> Back in college (many years ago, about 1983, before I
got into collecting), I went to the apartment of a fellow compsci major to
quell some beer. In the middle of his living room was a complete IBM system
3, in perfectly mint condition. He told me I could have it if I could get it
out of there. Idiot me said "You gotta be kidding - no thanks". *SIGH*
This seems to be a good test to see if you are an official old-timer in
the computer collecting hobby - passing up a free machine that today
people would kill for.
I have been there, many times (IBM, Amdahl, DG). How about others? 
14 Jan
14 Jan
4:28 a.m.
New subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay)
William Donzelli wrote:
This seems to be a good test to see if you are an
official old-timer in
the computer collecting hobby - passing up a free machine that today
people would kill for.
I have been there, many times (IBM, Amdahl, DG). How about others?
The worst thing I ever had to see so far was a DECsystem-10 (KL10 CPU)
go into the dumpster. It was a complete computing center, including
(IIRC) 3M words (36 bits each) of MOS memory, two RP06 disk drives, one
RP07, TU77 tape, a frontend (PDP-11 with 96 serial lines), Ethernet, and
a line printer. The printer alone was so heavy that we needed four
people to navigate it out of the room, even though it was on wheels.
Only the plotter (a Benson 1322, tractor-feed paper, something close to
a meter wide, with two vacuum columns similar to tape drives) was kept.
This must have been in the late 1980s, the site had been started in 1972
with a KA10 and then upgraded stepwise. I joined the staff in the early
80s. The successor was a pair of VAX-11/750 and later a 6310, an 8600,
and, in 1992, one of the first Alphas.
There are other computing centers I had to see go away (VAXen, two CI
clusters, let alone the smaller stuff), but the -10 hurt me most. I wish
I had the space, air condition, and power (I was told the CPU alone
needed 27kW) to keep this beautiful system.
Does that qualify for an "official old-timer"?
Rumor had it that there was a whole bunch of -10s at some Scandinavian
university (Oslo? Stockholm?) in the 1980s. Anybody know what became of
those?
--
Andreas Freiherr
Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany
http://www.vishay.com
15 Jan
15 Jan
9:25 a.m.
New subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay)
On 2003.01.14 16:30 Andreas Freiherr wrote:
Rumor had it that there was a whole bunch of -10s at
some Scandinavian
university (Oslo? Stockholm?) in the 1980s. Anybody know what became
of those?
I know that a user group at a Swedish university has several big, old
iron machines in storage and some of them in operation. E.g. a 10 m wide
VAX 11/780, several VAX8000 and VAX6000. Also I saw a DECSYSTEM 20xx...
some Sun 4, Norsk Data, ... See: http://www.ludd.luth.se/gallery/
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
9:33 a.m.
New subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay)
Rumor had it
that there was a whole bunch of -10s at some Scandinavian
university (Oslo? Stockholm?) in the 1980s. Anybody know what became
of those?
I know that a user group at a Swedish university has several big, old
iron machines in storage and some of them in operation. E.g. a 10 m wide
VAX 11/780, several VAX8000 and VAX6000. Also I saw a DECSYSTEM 20xx...
some Sun 4, Norsk Data, ... See: http://www.ludd.luth.se/gallery/ 
10:05 a.m.
New subject: SV: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay)
Hi!
I know that The computer club Stacken at Royal Institute of Technology in
Stockholm used to have a KA10
(KATIA) (TIA = 10) and a KI10, KICKI.
Check this web page (in swedish) http://susning.nu/KATIA
I have actually seen then myself a number of times. They were massive..
/Mattis
-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Fran: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]For William Donzelli
Skickat: den 15 januari 2003 21:36
Till: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Kopia: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Amne: Re: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay)
I am convinced that the rumor of Scandanavian -10s is either simply not
true, or blown out of proportion. The group mentioned above does indeed
have a DEC-20 of some sort, but no KA10s or KI10s as the rumor states.
This rumor has been circulating for years. Unless someone gives me
*concrete* evidence, I have to doubt the existence of the mythical -10s.
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
Rumor had it
that there was a whole bunch of -10s at some Scandinavian
university (Oslo? Stockholm?) in the 1980s. Anybody know what became
of those?
I know that a user group at a Swedish university has several big, old
iron machines in storage and some of them in operation. E.g. a 10 m wide
VAX 11/780, several VAX8000 and VAX6000. Also I saw a DECSYSTEM 20xx...
some Sun 4, Norsk Data, ... See: http://www.ludd.luth.se/gallery/
1:30 p.m.
New subject: SV: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay)
On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Mattis Lind wrote:
I know that The computer club Stacken at Royal
Institute of Technology in
Stockholm used to have a KA10
(KATIA) (TIA = 10) and a KI10, KICKI.
Check this web page (in swedish) http://susning.nu/KATIA
I have actually seen then myself a number of times. They were massive..
Here's a pic: http://www.stacken.kth.se/~thn/FullScale/f3-2.jpg
-brian.
2:08 p.m.
New subject: SV: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay)
Here's a pic:
http://www.stacken.kth.se/~thn/FullScale/f3-2.jpg
The frontmost six cabinets of the main row of tall cabinets are
two KI10 CPUs. The remaining cabinets in that line are probably
core memory and peripheral controllers. No KA10 in evidence. Does
anyone know whether they still actually have these machines?
16 Jan
16 Jan
6:26 a.m.
New subject: SV: SV: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay)
As the KTH campus was rebuilt a couple of years ago Stacken had to move to
new premises, whcih didn't allow big PDP-10. I guess that most people at
stacken really wanted to use a little bit more modern computers so they went
for VAX and SUN machines.
The rumor says that Peter L?thberg www.stupi.se have taken care of them and
stored them in a warehouse north of Stockholm. Another rumor tell that at
least one of the big 10s was actually shipped from the US..
http://susning.nu/KATIA
The picture on this webpage (in swedish) should picture a KA10 at Stacken. I
actually think that Peter is sitting in front of the terminal.
/Mattis
-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Fr?n: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]F?r Eric Smith
Skickat: den 16 januari 2003 02:12
Till: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
?mne: Re: SV: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay)
Here's a pic:
http://www.stacken.kth.se/~thn/FullScale/f3-2.jpg
The frontmost six cabinets of the main row of tall cabinets are
two KI10 CPUs. The remaining cabinets in that line are probably
core memory and peripheral controllers. No KA10 in evidence. Does
anyone know whether they still actually have these machines?
18 Jan
18 Jan
5:56 p.m.
New subject: SV: SV: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay)
The rumor says that Peter Löthberg www.stupi.se have
taken care of them and
stored them in a warehouse north of Stockholm. Another rumor tell that at
least one of the big 10s was actually shipped from the US..
http://susning.nu/KATIA
The picture on this webpage (in swedish) should picture a KA10 at Stacken. I
actually think that Peter is sitting in front of the terminal.
No offense, but that picture looks so old, I would not consider it
anything like the "concrete" evidence I am looking for.
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
15 Jan
15 Jan
4:47 p.m.
New subject: SV: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay)
I have *got* to get me one of *those*!!
Peace... Sridhar
On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Brian Chase wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Mattis Lind wrote:
I know that The computer club Stacken at Royal
Institute of Technology in
Stockholm used to have a KA10
(KATIA) (TIA = 10) and a KI10, KICKI.
Check this web page (in swedish) http://susning.nu/KATIA
I have actually seen then myself a number of times. They were massive..
Here's a pic: http://www.stacken.kth.se/~thn/FullScale/f3-2.jpg
-brian.
5:25 p.m.
New subject: SV: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay)
I have *got* to get me one of *those*!!
Good luck. In the field of big computers, I think a KA10/KI10 is only
eclipsed by a PDP-1 in terms of guys that would go "all the way" for one.
Now, THAT would be a slugfest on Ebay...
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
1:17 p.m.
New subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay)
On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, William Donzelli wrote:
I am convinced that the rumor of Scandanavian -10s is
either simply not
true, or blown out of proportion. The group mentioned above does indeed
have a DEC-20 of some sort, but no KA10s or KI10s as the rumor states.
This rumor has been circulating for years. Unless someone gives me
*concrete* evidence, I have to doubt the existence of the mythical -10s.
Well, it's only a DECSYSTEM-2065, but it's in Norway.
http://mail-index.netbsd.org/port-vax/1998/09/15/0001.html
-brian.
4:43 p.m.
New subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay)
On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Brian Chase wrote:
Only a DECSYSTEM-2065!?
Only!
Peace... Sridhar
I am convinced
that the rumor of Scandanavian -10s is either simply not
true, or blown out of proportion. The group mentioned above does indeed
have a DEC-20 of some sort, but no KA10s or KI10s as the rumor states.
This rumor has been circulating for years. Unless someone gives me
*concrete* evidence, I have to doubt the existence of the mythical -10s.
Well, it's only a DECSYSTEM-2065, but it's in Norway.
http://mail-index.netbsd.org/port-vax/1998/09/15/0001.html
1:41 p.m.
New subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay)
On Wed, 15 Jan 2003 vance(a)neurotica.com wrote:
Only a DECSYSTEM-2065!?
Only!
:-)
Oh yeah, and I'd missed some of the pictures of the Stacken
systems in Sweden:
http://www.stacken.kth.se/~thn/FullScale/f3-1.jpg
http://www.stacken.kth.se/~thn/FullScale/f3-2.jpg
http://www.stacken.kth.se/~thn/FullScale/f3-3.jpg (mailed earlier)
I don't know, given the two separate systems shown there, and the
DECSYSTEM-2065 in Norway, it seems to me like there might be some
substance to these Scandanavian PDP-10 rumors.
I hear hydroelectric power is relatively inexpensive; Norway and Sweden
(maybe Finland too?) have certain advantages when running large systems
in regard to the power being fairly cheap. At least that's what I've
been told by people I know from Sweden and Norway.
-brian.
On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Brian Chase wrote:
I am convinced that the rumor of Scandanavian -10s is
either simply not
true, or blown out of proportion. The group mentioned above does indeed
have a DEC-20 of some sort, but no KA10s or KI10s as the rumor states.
This rumor has been circulating for years. Unless someone gives me
*concrete* evidence, I have to doubt the existence of the mythical -10s.
Well, it's only a DECSYSTEM-2065, but it's in Norway.
http://mail-index.netbsd.org/port-vax/1998/09/15/0001.html 
12 Jan
12 Jan
3:53 p.m.
Only if we can timeshare....
: )
- Matt
At 03:39 AM 1/13/2003 +0100, you wrote:
Zane H. Healy wrote:
Matthew Sell
Programmer
On Time Support, Inc.
www.ontimesupport.com
(281) 296-6066
Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST!
http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.htmlhtml.
"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler
Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...
>It looks like Al Kossow is the high bidder
now, and he surpased the
This is one system I *REALLY* hope he gets! I
want to see scan's of some
of those manuals :^)
Seems like Al has been outbid, is it time to set up a subscription to
support Al in snagging the machine? I'd be up to subscribing $50 toward
such a project.
--- hbp
3:57 p.m.
On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Hans B Pufal wrote:
Zane H. Healy wrote:
Is it only me, or does that listing look like hammered crap in
Mozilla? I'm on my laptop, which runs at 1400x1050 only, so I have the
fonts juked up to 14pt. The text runs right over the bidding frame and
most of the pics.
It's not the font size either - I turned my fonts down to 10 pt. and
no joy.
Doc
>It looks like Al Kossow is the high bidder
now, and he surpased the
This is one system I *REALLY* hope he gets! I
want to see scan's of some
of those manuals :^)
Seems like Al has been outbid, is it time to set up a subscription to
support Al in snagging the machine? I'd be up to subscribing $50 toward
such a project. 
4:47 p.m.
On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Doc Shipley wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Hans B Pufal wrote:
Yep same thing here...
Peter Wallace
Zane H. Healy wrote:
Is it only me, or does that listing look like hammered crap in
Mozilla? I'm on my laptop, which runs at 1400x1050 only, so I have the
fonts juked up to 14pt. The text runs right over the bidding frame and
most of the pics.
It's not the font size either - I turned my fonts down to 10 pt. and
no joy.
Doc
>It looks like Al Kossow is the high bidder
now, and he surpased the
This is one system I *REALLY* hope he gets! I
want to see scan's of some
of those manuals :^)
Seems like Al has been outbid, is it time to set up a subscription to
support Al in snagging the machine? I'd be up to subscribing $50 toward
such a project.
4:20 p.m.
On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Hans B Pufal wrote:
I don't know; $5000 is a lot of money. That sucks. I don't recognize
the new high bidder's name at all. The chances are that we'll never see
copies of those docs now.
-brian.
Zane H. Healy wrote:
> It looks
like Al Kossow is the high bidder now, and he surpased the
This is one system I *REALLY* hope he gets! I
want to see scan's of some
of those manuals :^)
Seems like Al has been outbid, is it time to set up a subscription to
support Al in snagging the machine? I'd be up to subscribing $50 toward
such a project.
4:42 p.m.
I don't know; $5000 is a lot of money. That
sucks. I don't recognize
the new high bidder's name at all. The chances are that we'll never see
copies of those docs now.
Actually, I think RCS has most of the -12 docs anyway, in which case they
have been sent to Al a while back, in Al's possession now, or will be
sent to Al.
Same with RICM. I am not sure if any of the Temple doc stash has made it
west yet.
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
5:05 p.m.
William Donzelli wrote:
Actually, I think RCS has most of the -12 docs anyway,
in which case they
have been sent to Al a while back, in Al's possession now, or will be
sent to Al.
Same with RICM. I am not sure if any of the Temple doc
stash has made it
west yet.
OK, that takes care of the docs, but I think Al deserves all the support
we can give him for his sterling work on acquring, preserving and (more
importantly) scanning all that documentation. I would not begrudge him
a new toy to play with ;-)
-- hbp
5:59 p.m.
Quothe Brian Chase, from writings of Sun, Jan 12, 2003 at 07:23:13PM -0800:
I don't know; $5000 is a lot of money. That
sucks. I don't recognize
the new high bidder's name at all. The chances are that we'll never see
copies of those docs now.
The current high bidder is Bob Rosswell (sp?), the (current?) owner of
System Source, one of those PeeCee sales places that have been helping
Micro$oft screw the world... last I heard, several years ago, he was
setting up some sort of display of old computers or something like
that.
I'm very sorry to hear that the bidding's gone so high, and taken this
from something fun for hobbyists who will use, hack and
preserve the
system to a "museum piece" that those who will appreciate the
sytem
the most can't afford, which will probably see little, it any, use,
and no use at all once it stops working if it gets used at all. :-(
--
Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals:
All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &
rdd(a)rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.
6:24 p.m.
Speaking of (n)ettiquette...
The current high bidder is Bob Rosswell (sp?), the
(current?) owner of
System Source, one of those PeeCee sales places that have been helping
Micro$oft screw the world... last I heard, several years ago, he was
setting up some sort of display of old computers or something like
that.
I'm very sorry to hear that the bidding's gone so high, and taken this
from something fun for hobbyists who will use, hack and preserve the
system to a "museum piece" that those who will appreciate the sytem
the most can't afford, which will probably see little, it any, use,
and no use at all once it stops working if it gets used at all. :-(
It is *extremely* bad form to make public comments on bidders at *any*
form of auction. It does not matter who they are or what they do. Internet or
live, Sotheby's or Joe's Junk. Many bidder's really like to remain nameless.
Some auctions house will actually throw you out if your comments are heard...
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
6:33 p.m.
Considering the Going Cost of a PDP-12 was around $28,000
in 1969 getting it for 5,000 2003 dollars is cheap.
Ben.
13 Jan
13 Jan
11:01 a.m.
On the other hand, an IBM 8580 PS/2 cost around
$10,000 in 87 and I acquired one for $10 in 97. I'd
gladly part with an 8580 for $2000. Even $20 for that
matter.
Lawrence
On 12 Jan 2003, , ben franchuk wrote:
Considering the Going Cost of a PDP-12 was around
$28,000 in
1969 getting it for 5,000 2003 dollars is cheap. Ben.
lgwalker@ mts.net
14 Jan
14 Jan
8:13 a.m.
I have a model 80 that has all sorts of neat features that I most
certainly would *not* let go for $2000. I wouldn't in 2027, that's for
sure. And a model 80 cost $10,000 with the smallest available disk and 2
MB RAM. My uncle's (which he bought for his business, and I now have) was
$16,000 new.
Peace... Sridhar
On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Lawrence Walker wrote:
On the other hand, an IBM 8580 PS/2 cost around
$10,000 in 87 and I acquired one for $10 in 97. I'd
gladly part with an 8580 for $2000. Even $20 for that
matter.
Lawrence
On 12 Jan 2003, , ben franchuk wrote:
Considering the Going Cost of a PDP-12 was around
$28,000 in
1969 getting it for 5,000 2003 dollars is cheap. Ben.
lgwalker@ mts.net
13 Jan
13 Jan
5:16 a.m.
On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Brian Chase wrote:
I don't know; $5000 is a lot of money. That sucks.
I don't recognize the
new high bidder's name at all. The chances are that we'll never see
copies of those docs now.
Don't be so dour. System Source has been building a computer museum for
years now (mostly through eBay it would seem).
Check out their website:
http://www.syssrc.com/html/museum/index.html
I believe they used to have the collection on public display from their
office.
They're doing an awesome job documenting all this. I'll bet if you
inquired they would be willing to make copies of the documenation, or scan
it.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
8:16 a.m.
Don't be so dour. System Source has been building a computer museum for
years now (mostly through eBay it would seem).
Check out their website:
http://www.syssrc.com/html/museum/index.html
I believe they used to have the collection on public display from their
office.
They're doing an awesome job documenting all this. I'll bet if you
inquired they would be willing to make copies of the documenation, or scan
it.
Well, their website doesnt show very many computers. In fact, they skip from
mechanical adders right to the Altair and other home/personal computers.
-Lawrence LeMay
16 Jan
16 Jan
6:42 a.m.
New subject: Harddrive collectors
Hi all,
I subscribed to the list half a year ago, but I think I never told you
what I collect. I'm a guy (20) from Germany and what I like is collecting
old harddrives. Strange aeh ?
You certainly will agree when I tell you what a friend told me (DEC-fanatic
guy):
" Harddives are a part of computers, I need them for example to upgrade old
mainframes, but I wouldn't just collect them!" ...I purchased a PDP11/23 to
test my SMD-drives (you remember my mails: "PDP11?/23 and QD32" ?).
Rescueing old drives has become a task for me.
A webpage containing all the disks WITH photos is my next plan, so that
people, who find old drives can refer to the photos.
So don't be surprised if my emails refer to drives in most cases.
Are there other harddrive collector in this forum ?
By the way, I have manuals for disk drives of the Trident Series (Century
Data Systems). If anyone needs them , please let me know.
I don't have a lot of time at the moment but scanning the docs will be done
in the coming months.
Pierre
On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Brian Chase wrote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know; $5000 is a lot of money. That
sucks. I don't recognize the
new high bidder's name at all. The chances are that we'll never see
copies of those docs now.
Don't be so dour. System Source has been building a computer museum for
years now (mostly through eBay it would seem).
Check out their website:
http://www.syssrc.com/html/museum/index.html
I believe they used to have the collection on public display from their
office.
They're doing an awesome job documenting all this. I'll bet if you
inquired they would be willing to make copies of the documenation, or scan
it.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer
Festival
International Man of Intrigue and Danger
http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at
www.VintageTech.com *
--
+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++
NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr f?r 1 ct/ Min. surfen!
9:57 a.m.
New subject: Harddrive collectors
hallo, ich sammle alte festplatten aber auch andere alte computer sachen
(zubehoer, wie ganze computer), ich bin natuerlich an allen interresiert.
Ich wohne in frankreich, und bin 18 jahre alt.
mfg
----- Original Message -----
From: <P.Gebhardt(a)gmx.de>
To: <cctech(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 6:43 PM
Subject: Harddrive collectors
----
Hi all,
I subscribed to the list half a year ago, but I think I never told you
what I collect. I'm a guy (20) from Germany and what I like is collecting
old harddrives. Strange aeh ?
You certainly will agree when I tell you what a friend told me
(DEC-fanatic
guy):
" Harddives are a part of computers, I need them for example to upgrade
old
mainframes, but I wouldn't just collect
them!" ...I purchased a PDP11/23
to
test my SMD-drives (you remember my mails:
"PDP11?/23 and QD32" ?).
Rescueing old drives has become a task for me.
A webpage containing all the disks WITH photos is my next plan, so that
people, who find old drives can refer to the photos.
So don't be surprised if my emails refer to drives in most cases.
Are there other harddrive collector in this forum ?
By the way, I have manuals for disk drives of the Trident Series (Century
Data Systems). If anyone needs them , please let me know.
I don't have a lot of time at the moment but scanning the docs will be
done
in the coming months.
Pierre
> On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Brian Chase wrote:
>
> > I don't know; $5000 is a lot of money. That sucks. I don't recognize
the
> > new high bidder's name at all. The
chances are that we'll never see
> > copies of those docs now.
>
> Don't be so dour. System Source has been building a computer museum for
> years now (mostly through eBay it would seem).
>
> Check out their website:
>
> http://www.syssrc.com/html/museum/index.html
>
> I believe they used to have the collection on public display from their
> office.
>
> They're doing an awesome job documenting all this. I'll bet if you
> inquired they would be willing to make copies of the documenation, or
scan
it.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer
Festival
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
International
Man of Intrigue and Danger
http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at
www.VintageTech.com *
--
+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++
NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr f?r 1 ct/ Min. surfen!
17 Jan
17 Jan
8:26 a.m.
New subject: Harddrive collectors
On 2003.01.16 18:43 P.Gebhardt(a)gmx.de wrote:
I'm a guy (20) from Germany
Jungspund. ;-)
and what I like is collecting old harddrives.
If you ever get specs for a:
Seagate "Elite" (ST41097j or ST41201j)
EquipNo PA4A2A
PartNo 70525902
ItemNo 70896712
_pease_ mail it to me. This drive is a 5.25" FH, 1 GB SMD disk that I
would like to get working on one of my VAXen. The 9" / 1 GB NEC drives
are nice, but draw a litle to much power (200 W).
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
18 Jan
18 Jan
3:01 a.m.
New subject: Harddrive collectors
Hallo Jochen,
I'll watch out for specs of theses drives and tell you when I find
something. If you want to get rid of your nec drives someday,
mail to me !! ;)
By the way, I still haven't found specs for my QD32.
Is there anybody who has manuals for this controller ?
Pierre
On 2003.01.16 18:43 P.Gebhardt(a)gmx.de wrote:
--
+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++
NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr f?r 1 ct/ Min. surfen!
I'm a guy (20) from Germany
Jungspund. ;-)
and what I like is collecting old harddrives.
If you ever get specs for a:
Seagate "Elite" (ST41097j or ST41201j)
EquipNo PA4A2A
PartNo 70525902
ItemNo 70896712
_pease_ mail it to me. This drive is a 5.25" FH, 1 GB SMD disk that I
would like to get working on one of my VAXen. The 9" / 1 GB NEC drives
are nice, but draw a litle to much power (200 W).
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
11:44 a.m.
New subject: Harddrive collectors
On Sat, Jan 18, 2003 at 03:03:48PM +0100, P.Gebhardt(a)gmx.de wrote:
I'll watch out for specs of theses drives and tell
you when I find
something.
Thanks, that would be nice.
If you want to get rid of your nec drives someday,
mail to me !! ;)
Nur über meine Leiche! ;-)
By the way, I still haven't found specs for my
QD32.
Is there anybody who has manuals for this controller ?
Ahh, I knew there was
somthing. I have a QD33 manual, possibly a QD32
manual too. There is a short description of the QD32 / QD33 at
hamsters site. It was enough to get my QD33 working with the NEC
drives.
--
tschüß,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz
11:56 a.m.
New subject: Harddrive collectors
On Sat, Jan 18, 2003 at 03:03:48PM +0100, P.Gebhardt(a)gmx.de wrote:
By the way, I still haven't found specs for my
QD32.
http://www.telnet.hu/hamster/dr/qd33.html
--
tschüß,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz
20 Jan
20 Jan
8:58 a.m.
New subject: DOS1.0, 3.20, and the like...
Hello...
Still looking. Someone sent me a reply in the list with a complete set of
IBM PC-DOS 1.0 still in the package. I replied, but never saw either my
reply or any answer come back. I'm still interested in buying, if I/we can
make arrangements...
Cheers!
Ed
15 Jan
15 Jan
7:33 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Chase" <vaxzilla(a)jarai.org>
I don't recognize
the new high bidder's name at all. The chances are that we'll never see
copies of those docs now.
Checking the address of the guy that's bidding $5000: here is an article
http://www.syssrc.com/html/company_info/news081101.shtml, and here is his
online computer museum: http://www.syssrc.com/html/museum/. Don't despair.
--
Jonathan Engdahl
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/PDP-11.htm
"The things which are seen are temporary,
but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18
4:50 p.m.
On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Hans B Pufal wrote:
Zane H. Healy wrote:
Since its up to 5K and still 9 days before the end of the auction, dont know
what luck you would have, but I'd throw in some funds for Al if it would
help...
Peter Wallace
>It looks like Al Kossow is the high bidder
now, and he surpased the
This is one system I *REALLY* hope he gets! I
want to see scan's of some
of those manuals :^)
Seems like Al has been outbid, is it time to set up a subscription to
support Al in snagging the machine? I'd be up to subscribing $50 toward
such a project.
--- hbp
13 Jan
13 Jan
5:12 a.m.
On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Hans B Pufal wrote:
Seems like Al has been outbid, is it time to set up a
subscription to
support Al in snagging the machine? I'd be up to subscribing $50 toward
such a project.
Me too. I'll pledge $30 to Al ;)
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
12 Jan
12 Jan
10:27 a.m.
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12:37 p.m.
On Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 04:22 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
Gezundheit.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars."
St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2300403973
Note: I am not affiliated with this auction in any way and I'm
precluded
from bidding because my wife would kill me.
Kersqueeble!
13 Jan
13 Jan
2:32 p.m.
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12 Jan
12 Jan
12:33 p.m.
On Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 02:13 AM, Erik S. Klein wrote:
All I have to say is WOW!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2300403973
Note: I am not affiliated with this auction in any way and I'm
precluded
from bidding because my wife would kill me.
Oh, to have money again. I'd jump on this in a heartbeat if I could
afford it.
I hesitate to guess at how much it'll go for...I sure hope it goes to
a good home.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars."
St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols
7855
days inactive
7863
days old
90 comments
35 participants
participants (35)
-
allain＠panix.com -
Andreas.Freiherr＠Vishay.com -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
aw288＠osfn.org -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
classiccmp＠vintage-computer.com -
coredump＠gifford.co.uk -
doc＠mdrconsult.com -
erd_6502＠yahoo.com -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
ETILLMAN＠satx.rr.com -
fernande＠internet1.net -
foo＠siconic.com -
hansp＠aconit.org -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
jcwren＠jcwren.com -
jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de -
joe_web＠worldonline.fr -
jpl15＠panix.com -
jrengdahl＠safeaccess.com -
jss＠subatomix.com -
jwest＠classiccmp.org -
kth＠srv.net -
lemay＠cs.umn.edu -
lgwalker＠mts.net -
mattis＠mattisborgen.org -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
msell＠ontimesupport.com -
P.Gebhardt＠gmx.de -
pat＠purdueriots.com -
pcw＠mesanet.com -
rdd＠rddavis.org -
rschaefe＠gcfn.org -
vance＠neurotica.com -
vaxzilla＠jarai.org