At 06:14 AM 10/26/2004, Jules Richardson wrote: Different animal. Archie searched ftp archives : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archie_search_engine - John

Even www is now "on-topic"

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004, Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter wrote: But you'll miss the BeBox, among others, plus all those cool handhelds you collect will be off-topic :( -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

Just grab the right connector from your junk box and crimp it onto the cable alongside the 'wrong' one... What, you don't have a junk box? -tony

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004, Computer Collector E-Mail Newsletter wrote: Windoze 3.0: May 22, 1990 WWW: 1989 Tim Berners-Lee Then let's go with 21 years. http://www.ox.compsoc.net/~swhite/history/pentium.html "The first Pentium Processors (the 60 and 66 MHz versions) were released by Intel on March 22, 1993. These chips contained the equivalent of 3.1 million transistors and achieved up to 100MIPS. Pictured here is the slightly newer and slightly faster 75MHz version. The Pentium Processor was Intel's successor to the i486 chips, and used features such as pipelining and larger L1 caches to significantly increase the performance of the chips when compared to the i486." If we are going to re-adjust the number of years to include/exclude, then let's just scrap the entire concept of a fixed number of years, and declare that classic computers ran until August 10, 1981 (the day before the IBM PC announcement). -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com

Fred Cisin wrote: Jut freeze it at 1984. Orwell, Oh well ;-)

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:23:58 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: I have a set of the 'IBM Industrial Computer' technical reference manuals here somewhere. The reference pages, and actually the schematics, are identical to those in the IBM PC/XT Technical Reference Manual. They stuck the parts in a more industrial case.

I certainly didn't intend to sound like a complainer... just meant to observe that something's askew with our 10-year concept if we're talking about the web and 3.5-inch disks as "vintage". Since I collect (ahem) "vintage" handhelds, the 20-year concept works great for me, as 1984 was when a handheld first had handwriting recognition (the Casio PF-8000, almost a decade before the Newton). --- Jules Richardson <julesrichardsonuk(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit the museums directory and read about past events at our web site: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news(a)computercollector.com 585 readers and counting!

LOL, I'll remember that the next time you go off on something political. --- Vintage Computer Festival <vcf(a)siconic.com> wrote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit the museums directory and read about past events at our web site: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news(a)computercollector.com 585 readers and counting!

----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" <vcf(a)siconic.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 12:38 PM Subject: Re: YAAYD (Yet another "Ten (0A) year" discussion) (was: GOPHER Festival ---- http://www.vintage.org mputers ] http://marketplace.vintage.org ] Politics and religion are based more on faith then facts, you cannot change peoples faith with facts. Stick to computers Sellam.

----- Original Message ----- From: "David V. Corbin" <dvcorbin(a)optonline.net> To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 9:32 PM Subject: RE: YAAYD (Yet another "Ten (0A) year" discussion) (was: GOPHER More like an auction to cover his last 2 months rent he ducked out on. I wonder how many people have said they are leaving the country if Bush wins and realy mean it.

I know someone, now living in San Diego (California), who was in the past saying things like "I'm coming back to Montreal before November, and if Bush wins I'm _not_ going back". Apparently that stance has now been backed down from, but it was plenty believable - there was already friction between her and her husband over his wanting them to move to California (from Montreal). If Bush wins, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if they found themselves fleeing. Fortunately one of them is a Canadian citizen, so there would be no problem getting into Canada, but there will probably be a lot of people who would, to call a spade a spade, be political refugees. If anyone needs a contact on the ground in Montreal come November 3rd, let me know. (While I've never had to do it, I imagine that fleeing to another country is a lot less scary if you have a contact there.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse(a)rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

No, you can post, you just won't be on topic. :) -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser(a)floodgap.com -- FORTUNE: Make your own advancement opportunity. Blackmail your boss. -------

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:47:08 -0400, Teo Zenios <teoz(a)neo.rr.com> wrote: I agree with the help me fix this problem on windows. But some talk of windows should be allowed if revelent ie. problems with simh, emulators and serial console problems. I'm sure a lot of people on this list do use windows wether they like it or not. I thought the idea of cctalk and cctech was that cctalk allowed OT questions. Dan

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:47:26 +0100 (BST), you wrote: There's even a fair amount of interesting esoteria about the first IBM PCs that should be on-topic. I.e.: The very first boxes from IBM had painted black power supplies, painted black card-edge plates, and sported one row of 16Kx1 RAM chips soldered in place, and up to three more in sockets, if you ordered more than 16K of memory with your system. Also included was the audio-cassette cable, since the first PCs (I think up to the 256K motherboards) could be purchased with no floppy drives and boot into 'cassette BASIC' in ROM and store and recall programs from audio cassette, like many other machines of the era. I doubt if there will be many people posting support questions about the dipswitch settings (confusing as hell, they were) for that generation of hardware to tell the motherboard how much memory was installed, and where (motherboard versus on the I/O channel). I have a Kaypro 8088 portable box, and while it's a 'PC Clone' with ISA slots, and can run dreary software like MS-DOS, it currently runs CP/M-86, which I hope people would welcome discussion of if it were brought up. I also have an all-original IBM-AT box (6 MHz), with IBM's EGA card in it, and all IBM hardware throughout. I personally consider it criminal to swap in a third-party VGA card, and since I don't have an EGA monitor, I've never turned it on (yet). One would think that by observing such an attitude even a '286 box would be considered a worthy topic once in awhile. My PC Convertable laptop (with all 640K, extremely rare) should also qualify even with the most ardent IBM-PC hater, since it's function in computing history was to make a mockery of IBM's feeble offerings of the time in DOS computing. Anyhow, sorry for rambling.

Actually, the CompuServe info is available -- I think. Check out Jason Scott's page: http://www.textfiles.com --- John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> wrote: ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all Visit the museums directory and read about past events at our web site: http://news.computercollector.com Contact us at news(a)computercollector.com 585 readers and counting!

Not to mention some of the more obscure IBM I/O cards (Profession Graphics Adapter, Lab I/O, networking, PC/370 processor, etc). Was it? I realise original IBM PCs (5150 machines) have the cassette port, but I thought you were expected to get the cable from RatShack. The 5 pin DIN socket has the same pinout as the TRS-80... ROM BASIC is present in the XT and AT too, but with no cassette interface. I have sometimes wondered about making an I/O card with a BIOS extension ROM that intercepts INT 15 (IIRC) and, say, uses a paper tape punch/reader as storage. I think that would work with the ROM BASIC in the latter machines. FWIW, I have the IBM TechRefs for the PC, PC/XT and PC/AT machines. My AT is much modified, but it still has the IBM Motherboard (with a 486 kludgeboard in the CPU socket...) I did find a PC/XT system that was 100% IBM. Even has the expansion unit (containing 2 10Mbyte hard drives...) -tony

And thus exclude some true classics, like the HP Integral and PERQ 2T4 Much as I hate to exclude a particalar type of machine, maybe we should just say that a machine is not classic if a substantially similar machine is still mainstream, and thus has support available elsewhere. That would, I think, cut out most Pentium-based machines (but would arguably still include PC/XTs, etc). -tony

I agree that the 10 year rule should be kept, but I can't help but find this comment humorous :^) And I'm not talking about a manufacturing or laboratory environment. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

So some of the sources are really old (U of M, 1991, 1992) so I put the whole bag of poop up at http://wps.com/temp/src/ gopher1, gopher2, gopherd, archie, xarchie, and a few other not that useful things.

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004, Cameron Kaiser wrote: Wow! Thanks for running this! It's a real blast of the past. I think the aesthetic hasn't yet become as alien as it will be, so it may take some time to be appreciated by people who "weren't there" when it was new. Hopefully there will be a few around still when that's true. Embarrassing for firefox et al, but lynx is a great client. I use it once a month or so, when I'm in some peculiar corner and need to get through a small hole in the universe. THere's always a place for a lightweight client! Well, I managed to not delete this over the years: tomj@fiche:~/Projects-of-the-past/1994/local/src ls archie/ ghostscript/ lynx/ pine/ tpage/ x10/ zip/ elm/ gopher/ metamail/ popper/ unzip/ xarchie/ zmodem/ fone/ lha/ pgp/ system/ watcher/ xpaint/ netBSD? FreeBSD? BSDi? I don't have the original TARs, just their contents. Timestamps appear intact, somehow. A 1994 old QIC-40 tape, found in Gilmore's basement, had all this stuff on it, and John was able to snarf it off and !email! it to me. Keep illuminating those parchment scrolls! Someone will read them one day! :-) Maybe I could write a script to munge my html tree to gopherspace, and put the port up for service again. I'll think on this one.