19 Aug
2012
19 Aug
'12
9:05 p.m.
Looks like the 50pin connection (J1) on the SUN2 CPU has 2 serial
ports, found a pinout:
The two serial ports on J1 are usually labelled SIO-A and SIO-B
on the back of the machine and appear as /dev/ttya and /dev/ttyb
under SunOS. The documented maximum output speed is 19200 bps.
All ports are wired DTE and are compatible with both RS-232C and
RS-423, using Zilog Z8530A dual UART chips. The pinout of J1 is:
3 TxD-A 14 DTR-A 33 DD-B
4 DB-A 15 DCD-A 34 CTS-B
5 RxD-A 22 DA-A 36 DSR-B
7 RTS-A 24 BSY-A 38 GND-B
8 DD-A 28 TxD-B 39 DTR-B
9 CTS-A 29 DB-B 40 DCD-B
11 DSR-A 30 RxD-B 47 DA-B
13 GND-A 32 RTS-B 49 BSY-B
Is the Sun 2 Keyboard a serial keyboard? If not, any ideas on where to
get a serial keyboard.
Thanks everyone!
-Nick
20 Aug
20 Aug
3:08 a.m.
Is the Sun 2 Keyboard a serial keyboard?
Depends on what you mean by "Sun 2 Keyboard". There's a keyboard with
mushy feel and a case which is a largeish wedge, kind of like a type-3
only with the front brought further out and made of metal instead of
plastic.
I'd call it a type 2. It's been a while, but as I recall, they had a
coiled cable with an RJ-style plug on the host end, which plugged into
a small adapter which plugged into a DA-15 on the host. (The mouse
also plugged into this adapter.) However, it's possible that I'm
remembering using them with Sun-3 CPUs; our Sun-2s were CPU-board-swap
upgraded to Sun-3s fairly early in our use of them. This is relevant
because it could be that on the Sun-2s the keyboard and mouse cables
plugged directly into something, with the adapters existing only to
connect them to the DA15s the Sun-3s use.
I think that adapter was completely passive, being just connectors and
wiring. If so, those keyboards must have been serial, because the
Sun-3 keyboard interface is. (With suitable voltage-level shifters,
and an external +5V supply, you can use such keyboards on a
bog-standard serial port; I have a type-3 in live use that way now.)
Of course, this is all predicated on your "Sun 2 Keyboard" being what I
think of as a type-2....
If not, any ideas on where to get a serial keyboard.
Sun keyboards up through the type-5 and thereabouts - pretty much,
anything that can be used with Suns from the Sun-3 days up to the end
of the SBus era - are all serial, though that's not to say they're
compatible enough to Just Work for you; they may speak the wrong
protocol, or may need various glue, either passive adapters or
something more elaborate....
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7:25 a.m.
Yes that is exactly the keyboard I have, it is a Large metal keyboard
with an RJ45 plug which connects via a cable to a DB15 adapter. If that
is in fact a serial keyboard, would it be as simple as using a RJ45 to
DB25 adapter?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
/ Is the Sun 2 Keyboard a serial keyboard?
/
Depends on what you mean by "Sun 2 Keyboard". There's a keyboard with
mushy feel and a case which is a largeish wedge, kind of like a type-3
only with the front brought further out and made of metal instead of
plastic.
I'd call it a type 2. It's been a while, but as I recall, they had a
coiled cable with an RJ-style plug on the host end, which plugged into
a small adapter which plugged into a DA-15 on the host. (The mouse
also plugged into this adapter.) However, it's possible that I'm
remembering using them with Sun-3 CPUs; our Sun-2s were CPU-board-swap
upgraded to Sun-3s fairly early in our use of them. This is relevant
because it could be that on the Sun-2s the keyboard and mouse cables
plugged directly into something, with the adapters existing only to
connect them to the DA15s the Sun-3s use.
I think that adapter was completely passive, being just connectors and
wiring. If so, those keyboards must have been serial, because the
Sun-3 keyboard interface is. (With suitable voltage-level shifters,
and an external +5V supply, you can use such keyboards on a
bog-standard serial port; I have a type-3 in live use that way now.)
Of course, this is all predicated on your "Sun 2 Keyboard" being what I
think of as a type-2....
/ If not, any ideas on where to get a serial keyboard.
/
Sun keyboards up through the type-5 and thereabouts - pretty much,
anything that can be used with Suns from the Sun-3 days up to the end
of the SBus era - are all serial, though that's not to say they're
compatible enough to Just Work for you; they may speak the wrong
protocol, or may need various glue, either passive adapters or
something more elaborate....
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21 Aug
21 Aug
2:27 a.m.
"Serial" does not imply "RS232"!
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On Aug 20, 2012, at 7:25 AM, Nick Allen <nick.allen at comcast.net> wrote:
Yes that is exactly the keyboard I have, it is a Large
metal keyboard with an RJ45 plug which connects via a cable to a DB15 adapter. If that is
in fact a serial keyboard, would it be as simple as using a RJ45 to DB25 adapter?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
/ Is the Sun 2 Keyboard a serial keyboard?
/
Depends on what you mean by "Sun 2 Keyboard". There's a keyboard with
mushy feel and a case which is a largeish wedge, kind of like a type-3
only with the front brought further out and made of metal instead of
plastic.
I'd call it a type 2. It's been a while, but as I recall, they had a
coiled cable with an RJ-style plug on the host end, which plugged into
a small adapter which plugged into a DA-15 on the host. (The mouse
also plugged into this adapter.) However, it's possible that I'm
remembering using them with Sun-3 CPUs; our Sun-2s were CPU-board-swap
upgraded to Sun-3s fairly early in our use of them. This is relevant
because it could be that on the Sun-2s the keyboard and mouse cables
plugged directly into something, with the adapters existing only to
connect them to the DA15s the Sun-3s use.
I think that adapter was completely passive, being just connectors and
wiring. If so, those keyboards must have been serial, because the
Sun-3 keyboard interface is. (With suitable voltage-level shifters,
and an external +5V supply, you can use such keyboards on a
bog-standard serial port; I have a type-3 in live use that way now.)
Of course, this is all predicated on your "Sun 2 Keyboard" being what I
think of as a type-2....
/ If not, any ideas on where to get a serial
keyboard.
/
Sun keyboards up through the type-5 and thereabouts - pretty much,
anything that can be used with Suns from the Sun-3 days up to the end
of the SBus era - are all serial, though that's not to say they're
compatible enough to Just Work for you; they may speak the wrong
protocol, or may need various glue, either passive adapters or
something more elaborate....
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3:20 a.m.
[top-posting and no-trimming damage repaired manually -Mouse]
Yes that is exactly
the keyboard I have, it is a Large metal keyboard
with an RJ45 plug which connects via a cable to a DB15 adapter.
That's not it, then; the keyboards in question use plugs substantially
narrower than RJ45 (or more correctly 8P8C, since it's not RJ45 unless
you're putting POTS phone service on the middle pair). I think they
were 4P4C, but might have been 6P6C - or more likely 6P4C.
I'll assume your "RJ45" was just a (very loose) term for "modular
plug/jack of unspecified size", for purposes of this email.
Is the Sun 2 Keyboard a serial keyboard?
Depends on what you mean by "Sun 2 Keyboard". [description]
I'd call it a type 2. It's been a while, but as I recall, they had
a coiled cable with an RJ-style plug on the host end, [...] If that is in fact a serial keyboard, would it be as
simple as using
a RJ45 to DB25 adapter?
For use on a stock RS232 serial port? No. You didn't specify that the
adapter be completely passive, but it doesn't matter, because I don't
think a serial port can drive enough power to run a Sun keyboard, so at
a minimum you would need an external power supply. Also, the adapter
would have to have some electroncis in it.
Sun keyboards of the sort I'm discussing here use RS232 data rates,
character size, and framing, but they use TTL voltage levels, not RS232
voltage levels. You need some electronics. What I find msot
convenient is a MAX232 or equivalent and two inverters (and an external
5V supply). A completely passive 4P4C (or 6P4C, whichever it is) to
DB25 adapter will not get the voltage levels right. Even if you tie
signal ground to 2.5V, the voltage swing isn't enough; IIRC RS232
specifies at least 3V either way from ground. (I _think_ the direction
of the swing is backwards, too, but I'd have to check that.)
When I wrote...
> I think that adapter was completely passive, being
just connectors
> and wiring.
...I was talking about an adapter to not a serial port such as is
typically put on a DB-25, but to a DA-15 port dedicated to the keyboard
and mouse. In the machine, it was connected to an ordinary UART port,
but without the level shifting circuitry serial ports generally have to
map between logic voltage levels and RS232 voltage levels.
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6:18 a.m.
On Tue, 21 Aug 2012, Mouse wrote:
[top-posting and no-trimming damage repaired manually
-Mouse]
Yes that is exactly
the keyboard I have, it is a Large metal keyboard
with an RJ45 plug which connects via a cable to a DB15 adapter.
That's not it, then; the keyboards in question use plugs substantially
narrower than RJ45 (or more correctly 8P8C, since it's not RJ45 unless
you're putting POTS phone service on the middle pair). I think they
were 4P4C, but might have been 6P6C - or more likely 6P4C.
I'll assume your "RJ45" was just a (very loose) term for "modular
plug/jack of unspecified size", for purposes of this email.
^^^^^
This.
Most people will have no idea what an uphill battle it was to get this
corrected on Wikipedia. A small number of highly vocal people /really/
wanted to argue that these connectors should be called RJ45 and RJ11
instead of their industry names, 8P8C, 6P6C, 6P4C, 6P2C, etc. ...and don't
even get me started on the RJ22/RJ10 vs 4P4C mess (or RJ50 vs 10P10C)...
All in all it took -months- to get this stuff mostly corrected and get the
search redirects all put in place on Wikipedia. Alas, I think outside of
academia and technology circles, we are forever doomed to see modular
plugs and connectors referred to as RJ45 and RJ11.
Of course, then there are these little boogers which have 8 contacts like
an 8P8C, but have narrow body which allows them to be plugged into ether a
6PxC -or- 8P8C jack.
http://www.siemon.com/e-catalog/ECAT_GI_page.aspx?GI_ID=mpc_universal-modul…
Still, while these are far too expensive for bulk applications, the K plug
Is the Sun 2 Keyboard a serial keyboard?
Depends on what you mean by "Sun 2 Keyboard". [description]
I'd call it a type 2. It's been a while, but as I recall, they had
a coiled cable with an RJ-style plug on the host end, [...] from Aines is still one of my favorite modular plugs:
http://www.aines.com/aines_products_cords.html
http://www.aines.com/kplug.pdf
I consider it a true shame that the plug patents from Siemon and Aines
prevent combining the two plug designs. A combination of those two design
ideas would make for the ultimate test-type modular plug since the 8P8C
version of the Aines K plug won't fit a 6P6C jack.
11:36 a.m.
On 08/21/2012 03:20 AM, Mouse wrote:
Even if you tie
signal ground to 2.5V, the voltage swing isn't enough; IIRC RS232
specifies at least 3V either way from ground. (I _think_ the direction
of the swing is backwards, too, but I'd have to check that.)
You are correct.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
4334
days inactive
4335
days old
6 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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mcguire＠neurotica.com -
mouse＠Rodents-Montreal.ORG -
nick.allen＠comcast.net -
tothwolf＠concentric.net