4 Oct
1998
4 Oct
'98
4:47 a.m.
Tron was done with a Foonly PDP10 clone.
I believe the first microcomputer to run Unix was the DEC PDP11/03 and
11/23 at At&T's Bell Labs (see the papers on mini-unix).
Bill
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter(a)shell.monmouth.com |
| Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in |
| a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
4 Oct
4 Oct
7:37 p.m.
On Sun, 4 Oct 1998, Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote:
Tron was done with a Foonly PDP10 clone.
I believe the first microcomputer to run Unix was the DEC PDP11/03 and
11/23 at At&T's Bell Labs (see the papers on mini-unix).
Microprocessor-based computer? Read the question again.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
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11:22 p.m.
Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote:
I believe the first microcomputer to run Unix was the
DEC PDP11/03 and
11/23 at At&T's Bell Labs (see the papers on mini-unix).
Sam replied:
Microprocessor-based computer? Read the question
again.
Well, if you count a multiple-chip MOS VLSI CPU implementation as a
microprocessor-based computer, the 11/03 and 11/23 both qualify.
And if you don't count multi-chip implementations as microprocessors, then
the F-14 computer did not use a microprocessor.
You can't have it both ways.
5 Oct
5 Oct
5:34 a.m.
On 5 Oct 1998, Eric Smith wrote:
I knew someone would catch that. Who came up with this question, damnit?
Anyway, the F14 CADC SLF chip can be classified as a single-chip
microprocessor. I say "can" because you've get a different definition of
microprocessor depending on whom you ask.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 09/21/98]
Microprocessor-based computer? Read the question again.
Well, if you count a multiple-chip MOS VLSI CPU implementation as a
microprocessor-based computer, the 11/03 and 11/23 both qualify.
And if you don't count multi-chip implementations as microprocessors, then
the F-14 computer did not use a microprocessor.
9:39 a.m.
Sam wrote:
Anyway, the F14 CADC SLF chip can be classified as a
single-chip
microprocessor. I say "can" because you've get a different definition of
microprocessor depending on whom you ask.
OK, let us know the definition, so that we can decide whether the LSI-11
chip set also qualifies as a microprocessor. Then we can settle the trivia
question regarding which microprocessor-based Unix system came first.
Eric
3:30 p.m.
On 5 Oct 1998, Eric Smith wrote:
Sam wrote:
It is a microprocessor, just not "single-chip", as you'll notice I
specified once you re-read my message above.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
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Anyway, the F14 CADC SLF chip can be classified
as a single-chip
microprocessor. I say "can" because you've get a different definition of
microprocessor depending on whom you ask.
OK, let us know the definition, so that we can decide whether the LSI-11
chip set also qualifies as a microprocessor. Then we can settle the trivia
question regarding which microprocessor-based Unix system came first.
3:36 p.m.
Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> wrote:
It is a microprocessor, just not
"single-chip", as you'll notice I
specified once you re-read my message above.
OK, so by that definition the LSI-11 is microprocessor based, and is the
correct answer to the trivia question about the frist microprocessor-based
Unix system.
I'm not sure how useful a definition it is. Why, for instance, isn't my
PDP-8/I considered to be microprocessor-based? It has a multi-chip
processor. So did the IBM 360/30, for that matter.
Is the difference based on the number of chips? If so, where is the
dividing line?
While I would be the last person to want to downplay the significance of
the F-14 computer, I personally think that the word 'microprocessor' is
only useful if it refers to a single monolithic IC, in which case Ted Hoff
and Intel get credit for the first one.
Eric
4:08 p.m.
On 6 Oct 1998, Eric Smith wrote:
While I would be the last person to want to downplay
the significance of
the F-14 computer, I personally think that the word 'microprocessor' is
only useful if it refers to a single monolithic IC, in which case Ted Hoff
and Intel get credit for the first one.
Single, monolithic IC with....? What? A transistor on it? An ALU with
"control logic"? You run into the same problem. Who's definition do we
agree upon? The answer seemingly is the same as the answer for "who has
the most money?"
Have you ever heard of the AL1 from Four Phase Systems? Circa 1968, and
also the first "microprocessor" :)
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 09/21/98]
4:22 p.m.
I wrote:
While I would be the last person to want to downplay
the significance of
the F-14 computer, I personally think that the word 'microprocessor' is
only useful if it refers to a single monolithic IC, in which case Ted Hoff
and Intel get credit for the first one.
Sam replied:
Single, monolithic IC with....? What? A transistor
on it? An ALU with
"control logic"? You run into the same problem. Who's definition do we
agree upon? The answer seemingly is the same as the answer for "who has
the most money?"
A single monolithic IC that contains a complete CPU capable of executing
stored programs from external memory (or optionally, internal memory).
Have you ever heard of the AL1 from Four Phase
Systems? Circa 1968, and
also the first "microprocessor" :)
No, please tell us about it.
6:59 p.m.
On 6 Oct 1998, Eric Smith wrote:
The F14 CADC SLF chip fits this definition, BTW.
There's a lot more out there than Intel would have you believe :) Give me
some time to pull my notes together on this (life is still a mess after
VCF). I'm taking a trip to Dallas tomorrow thru Friday, so give me until
the weekend to give you some starter information. I'm hoping there's a
web site out there I can point you to as well.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 09/21/98]
Single,
monolithic IC with....? What? A transistor on it? An ALU with
"control logic"? You run into the same problem. Who's definition do we
agree upon? The answer seemingly is the same as the answer for "who has
the most money?"
A single monolithic IC that contains a complete CPU capable of executing
stored programs from external memory (or optionally, internal memory). Have you ever
heard of the AL1 from Four Phase Systems? Circa 1968, and
also the first "microprocessor" :)
No, please tell us about it. 
6 Oct
6 Oct
5:45 a.m.
Sheesh, this list is beginning to remind me of the Dinosaur list,
where the elders and the young'ins rant forever about birds versus dinos.
What's wrong with a long list of "X begat Y" and knowing who might've
talked to who, and knowing how similar ideas evolved independently?
Today's computers are more similar to each other than "computers" were
thirty years ago. So what? Is it a dino with feathers, or a bird
with dino hips? The history is interesting, especially when new
items are uncovered.
- John
5 Oct
5 Oct
8:29 a.m.
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3:21 p.m.
On 5 Oct 98 at 23:43, Tony Duell wrote:
Ooops.. .Finger trouble. I didn't mean to send an unedited message back
to the list...
-tony
How about a LSI IC on a single silicon wafer chip for data manipulation which
includes I/O funtions. Not to be confused with an MPU ( micro-processing unit}
which may or may not be on a single chip.
ciao larry
lwalker(a)interlog.com
> > I believe the first microcomputer to
run Unix was the DEC PDP11/03 and
> > 11/23 at At&T's Bell Labs (see the papers on mini-unix).
> Microprocessor-based computer? Read
the question again.
By some definitions, the LSI11/03 and 11/23 are microprocessors (as is
the 11/73 which came later). The definition I use (and we've discussed
this before...) is 'A microprocessor is a processor on a single chip, or
a chipset which is only used to make that processor'. And that includes
the 11/03 and 11/23
If you won't allow these as microprocessors then you certainly have to
exclude the F14 processor as well...
3:46 p.m.
On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, Tony Duell wrote:
Yep. I wasn't thinking and didn't remember a previous discussion I'd had
with Allison about the fact that the 11/03 and 11/23 are
"microprocessors".
> > I
believe the first microcomputer to run Unix was the DEC PDP11/03 and
> > 11/23 at At&T's Bell Labs (see the papers on mini-unix).
>
> Microprocessor-based computer? Read the question again.
By some definitions, the LSI11/03 and 11/23 are microprocessors (as is
the 11/73 which came later). The definition I use (and we've discussed
this before...) is 'A microprocessor is a processor on a single chip, or
a chipset which is only used to make that processor'. And that includes
the 11/03 and 11/23 If you won't allow these as microprocessors then
you certainly have to
exclude the F14 processor as well...
Not necessarily. Again, the SLF chip COULD function without the other
chips in the set.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
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[Last web site update: 09/21/98]
9427
days inactive
9429
days old
14 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
dastar＠ncal.verio.com -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
lwalker＠mail.interlog.com -
pechter＠shell.monmouth.com