15 Sep
2009
15 Sep
'09
11:13 p.m.
On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 9:55 PM, Zane H. Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote:
The A3000 has a VGA out. ?Or if you're lucky you
can find a video card that
goes in the A2000, A3000, or A4000.
I forgot about the vga adapter on the 3000.
For the A500, the best bet is to find a A520, but you
might need to feed it
through a VCR or something depending on the TV you want to hook it to. ?I
know that is the case with your one TV and things like the TurboGrafix 16,
or our SuperGun. ?I assume a A520 is still easy to find, I know they were 10
years ago.
They show up on ebay all the time, but you might have to wait a couple weeks.
Personally in this day and age, I think the A500 is
one of the best Amiga's
to have, as it plays all the old games. ?For AGA games though you need a
A1200 or A4000.
The 2000 is supposed to be the same design as the 500, just with slots
added. It plays the same games and has many more upgrade options.
Still, the 500 was the one I had and I'd like to have one again. I
have a 600, two 2000s, and parts of a 1200. I'd still like to get the
1200 working, and end up with a lot of upgrades for the 2000 and 1200.
The upgrades are getting expensive these days though. Look at this:
http://www.softhut.com/cgi-bin/test/Web_store/web_store.cgi?page=catalog/ha…
I just can't bring myself to spend $500 on an amiga. Many fine
woodworking machines can be had for that. Still, the 68060 boards are
awesome.
Zane (who is hoping to revive my A500 and/or A3000
this winter)
I'd like to have a 500 and 3000. Care to trade a working 2000 for both? :-D
brian
15 Sep
15 Sep
11:20 p.m.
I kind of wonder why people bother with 060's and PPC on Amigas, very little
was made that can use it.
11:26 p.m.
On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 10:20 PM, Teo Zenios <teoz at neo.rr.com> wrote:
I kind of wonder why people bother with 060's and
PPC on Amigas, very little
was made that can use it.
There's definitely PPC software out there, but nowhere near as much as
the 68k stuff. And the 68060 can theoretically run all of the
software back to the 68000. I have a 68030 in my 2000 and it can
still feel sluggish, especially at higher resolutions and color
depths. It would be nice to hvae a 68060, but not $500 nice. lol
brian
11:33 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lanning" <brianlanning at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:26 PM
Subject: Re: Amiga video to component video or VGA?
On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 10:20 PM, Teo Zenios <teoz
at neo.rr.com> wrote:
I mostly game so my upgrades are all 68030's.
I can understand people getting the rare upgrades just to get them, but the
prices are a bit insane in my opinion for what you can run. The best thing
for me would have been for Commodore to have lived long enough to sell PPC
Amigas so I can get the classic 68k ones cheap after people moved on to
newer ones. Shocking what I can get for 68K mac for little or nothing and
how much it costs for something close on the Amiga (network cards anyone).
I kind of wonder why people bother with 060's
and PPC on Amigas, very
little
was made that can use it.
There's definitely PPC software out there, but nowhere near as much as
the 68k stuff. And the 68060 can theoretically run all of the
software back to the 68000. I have a 68030 in my 2000 and it can
still feel sluggish, especially at higher resolutions and color
depths. It would be nice to hvae a 68060, but not $500 nice. lol
brian
11:43 p.m.
On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Teo Zenios <teoz at neo.rr.com> wrote:
I mostly game so my upgrades are all 68030's.
I can understand people getting the rare upgrades just to get them, but the
prices are a bit insane in my opinion for what you can run. The best thing
for me would have been for Commodore to have lived long enough to sell PPC
Amigas so I can get the classic 68k ones cheap after people moved on to
newer ones. Shocking what I can get for 68K mac for little or nothing and
how much it costs for something close on the Amiga (network cards anyone).
I agree. The prices are stupid. I broke down and bought a buddha
board for the 2000. It's expensive but gives a lot of functionality.
It's a usb board for the amiga. It works with almost anything,
keyboards, mice, thumb drives, flash card readers, cd/dvd/hard drives,
network adapters... even usb sound cards. There's some crazy nuts out
there still writing amiga drivers for this stuff.
The real crazy prices are the people with the mediator boards and
68060 boards for their 1200. A 68060 amiga with pci slots
transplanted into a tower case. You could buy a modern computer for
those prices. But alas, it wouldn't be an amiga.
brian
16 Sep
16 Sep
12:18 a.m.
> Shocking what I can get for 68K mac for little or
nothing and
> how much it costs for something close on the Amiga (network cards anyone).
That's why every once in a while, I sell a GG2 Bus+... nobody cares
about extra serial ports or freeing up the built-in parallel port to
use with some sort of digitizer - mostly, people want to drop a
network card in their machine and don't want to pay $200-$300 for a
Zorro card or more for a CPU upgrade with Ethernet built in.
-ethan
1:53 a.m.
The real crazy prices are the people with the mediator
boards and
68060 boards for their 1200. A 68060 amiga with pci slots
transplanted into a tower case. You could buy a modern computer for
those prices. But alas, it wouldn't be an amiga.
I've been toying with buying one of the modern PPC boards, but technically
that wouldn't be an Amiga. Still, I was really impressed by how practical
they could be, especially with the software people are writing still for it.
Makes me wish there was a similar software interest for the classic MacOS,
but you hardly ever seen anyone developing for it. Classilla has been a
fun project. I don't know why others aren't interested in writing their own
apps, especially since decent tools like FutureBASIC are now freeware.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- It's tradition, that makes it okay. -- Weird Al, "Weasel Stomping Day"
-----
1:56 a.m.
I can understand people getting the rare upgrades just
to get them, but the
prices are a bit insane in my opinion for what you can run. The best thing
for me would have been for Commodore to have lived long enough to sell PPC
Amigas so I can get the classic 68k ones cheap after people moved on to
newer ones. Shocking what I can get for 68K mac for little or nothing and
how much it costs for something close on the Amiga (network cards anyone).
*cough*HombreHPPARISC*cough*
Classic Mac collecting really is dirt cheap except for the oddball exotic
pieces (CC, TAM, TV). It's rewarding, too, what you can do with it; there's a
lot of places blowing used and NOS stuff out by the cartload, and much of
it is still really useful and practical for small servers, even a backup
workstation.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Experience only makes you more interesting and marketable. -- Judy Blackburn
10:16 a.m.
New subject: Classic Mac (was: Amiga video to component video or VGA?)
At 10:56 PM -0700 9/15/09, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
Classic Mac collecting really is dirt cheap except for
the oddball exotic
pieces (CC, TAM, TV). It's rewarding, too, what you can do with it; there's a
lot of places blowing used and NOS stuff out by the cartload, and much of
it is still really useful and practical for small servers, even a backup
workstation.
How hard/expensive is it to get NOS Apple Extended II ADB keyboards?
While I can't afford to right now, I really should invest in a
couple, as well as a couple USB-to-ADB converters. Once I finally
switched to Mac OS X I gave up on the ADB II Mouse, but I suspect I'd
be lost without my keyboard. I paid $160 new for it in January of
'97, and it has lasted through my 8500/180, G4/450, and is now on my
G5 2x2 (I hope to get a Mac Pro soon). Amazingly the letters are
intact, but the spacebar has groves worn in it.
Once I switch to the Mac Pro I'll have to decide if I setup a Classic
Mac to run a couple apps (there is no replacement for me for
ClarisDraw aka MacDraw), or if I run them under an emulator). I've
stayed at 10.4.11 so I can continue to run Classic.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
10:34 a.m.
New subject: Classic Mac (was: Amiga video to component video or VGA?)
Classic Mac
collecting really is dirt cheap except for the oddball exotic
pieces (CC, TAM, TV). It's rewarding, too, what you can do with it; there's a
lot of places blowing used and NOS stuff out by the cartload, and much of
it is still really useful and practical for small servers, even a backup
workstation.
How hard/expensive is it to get NOS Apple Extended II ADB keyboards? Once I switch to the Mac Pro I'll have to decide
if I setup a Classic
Mac to run a couple apps (there is no replacement for me for
ClarisDraw aka MacDraw), or if I run them under an emulator). I've
stayed at 10.4.11 so I can continue to run Classic.
That's pretty much where I am. I think there are quite a few people who
won't update past Tiger for the same reason. I would be surprised if Apple
kept releasing security patches, though. Steve Jobs has shown a remarkable
penchant for rapidly jettisoning the past, which is as always good and bad.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- It's tradition, that makes it okay. -- Weird Al, "Weasel Stomping Day"
-----
1:59 p.m.
New subject: Classic Mac (was: Amiga video to component video or VGA?)
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
That's my guess, and I should have one or two on my keyboard shelves. When
we moved out of storage, we were going to fast for me to really pay any
attention to what I was shoving on the shelves. I have a couple shelves
dedicated to keyboards sitting on edge, I have a lot of keyboards! :-)
I wanted to move to 10.5 once it matured, and I even bought a family pack of
10.5, of which I've only used one of the five licenses. :-( Then I realized
I'd loose classic if I upgraded. What gets me is that Apple or some third
party doesn't offer a commercial emulator for those of us that need to
run our old software still.
I'm surprised we're still getting security patches, but it's not Apple that
is forcing me to upgrade. Adobe has annouced that they will be stopping
support of PPC based Mac's. Just like with classic, I knew I'd have to
switch eventually. Besides when I upgrade I'll move from 7GB of RAM up to
16GB. :-) Even though I have 7GB I desperatly need more RAM!
Zane
How
hard/expensive is it to get NOS Apple Extended II ADB keyboards?
Pristine NOS? I would imagine not easy, but I see used E2 ADB keyboards
all the time for a few bucks. I just clean them up and put them in service.
It's a great keyboard. That said, I don't mind the Pro keyboard, although
the current chiclet
keyboard makes me think of a growth-stunted PCjr.
Is that the stupid ultra-thin abomination? The white and clear keyboard
that came with my G5 is pretty nice, I use it on my Windows work laptop when
I'm working from home. My problem is I like the extra space the Extended II
keyboard has at the back, and tend to store stuff on it. :-)
Once I switch
to the Mac Pro I'll have to decide if I setup a Classic
Mac to run a couple apps (there is no replacement for me for
ClarisDraw aka MacDraw), or if I run them under an emulator). I've
stayed at 10.4.11 so I can continue to run Classic.
That's pretty much where I am. I think there are quite a few people who
won't update past Tiger for the same reason. I would be surprised if Apple
kept releasing security patches, though. Steve Jobs has shown a remarkable
penchant for rapidly jettisoning the past, which is as always good and bad.
2:12 p.m.
New subject: Classic Mac (was: Amiga video to component video or VGA?)
Pristine NOS?
I would imagine not easy, but I see used E2 ADB keyboards
all the time for a few bucks. I just clean them up and put them in service.
It's a great keyboard.
That's my guess, and I should have one or two on my keyboard shelves. When
we moved out of storage, we were going to fast for me to really pay any
attention to what I was shoving on the shelves. I have a couple shelves
dedicated to keyboards sitting on edge, I have a lot of keyboards! :-) That said, I
don't mind the Pro keyboard, although the current chiclet
keyboard makes me think of a growth-stunted PCjr.
Is that the stupid ultra-thin abomination? The white and clear keyboard
that came with my G5 is pretty nice, I use it on my Windows work laptop when
I'm working from home. My problem is I like the extra space the Extended II
keyboard has at the back, and tend to store stuff on it. :-) I wanted to move to 10.5 once it matured, and I even
bought a family pack of
10.5, of which I've only used one of the five licenses. :-( Then I realized
I'd loose classic if I upgraded. What gets me is that Apple or some third
party doesn't offer a commercial emulator for those of us that need to
run our old software still.
I was hoping that SheepShaver got picked up by someone knowledgeable but so
far no one has, and it's not evolving. It still has a lot of stability issues
and the emulation core is underwhelming (no MMU is not a big deal, but it
just won't run a lot of things). I'm toying with working on it myself, but I
don't really need it badly enough because I'm Tiger Forever, and I have
plenty of classic systems that I use regularly (I'm priming my 9.2.2
TiBook G4 into becoming my alternative laptop, although I'll probably give in
and get a MacBook for current software as my one nod to the Intel world).
I'm surprised we're still getting security
patches, but it's not Apple that
is forcing me to upgrade. Adobe has annouced that they will be stopping
support of PPC based Mac's. Just like with classic, I knew I'd have to
switch eventually. Besides when I upgrade I'll move from 7GB of RAM up to
16GB. :-) Even though I have 7GB I desperatly need more RAM!
I imagine we'll still see iTunes and Safari updates, at least through version
9.x and 4.x while they last, maybe QuickTime for the last gasp of QT7. I
plan to try to roll my own security updates otherwise, and maintain a Gecko
browser for Tiger. I just like/need the classic MacOS too much to give it
up just because Steve "Deliver De Liver" Jobs says so.
If there were an Amiga PPC laptop, I'd buy it today. I was really impressed
with the ports to OS 4.1, and Origyn covers the Internet aspects.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Life isn't fair. But having the root password helps. -----------------------
2:28 p.m.
New subject: Classic Mac (was: Amiga video to component video or VGA?)
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
So do I. I've started hoarding AT and PS/2
keyboards also -- in fact, my
old Cyrix DOS games PC and my BeBox/133 demand AT connectors. I doubt the
PS/2 keyboard supply will ever dry up, but none of them were built to last
except maybe the high-end offerings.
I still use a AT 101 keyboard via a PS/2 converter on my PC at home. :-)
I've used that keyboard since '91 when I got my 486. I've lost track of how
many different computers it's been connected to. I've even had it talking
to Sun workstations via a PS/2-to-Sun converter. My favorite PS/2 keyboard
is the one that came with my first SGI O2. It is solid.
I was hoping that SheepShaver got picked up by someone
knowledgeable but so
far no one has, and it's not evolving. It still has a lot of stability issues
and the emulation core is underwhelming (no MMU is not a big deal, but it
just won't run a lot of things). I'm toying with working on it myself, but I
don't really need it badly enough because I'm Tiger Forever, and I have
plenty of classic systems that I use regularly (I'm priming my 9.2.2
TiBook G4 into becoming my alternative laptop, although I'll probably give in
and get a MacBook for current software as my one nod to the Intel world).
The worst part is, SheepShaver was a commercial product. I've been really
tempted to look into an old enough PowerBook that it will run something in
the System 8.0 to 8.6 range. That would run all the Classic software I want
just fine. It wouldn't even need much RAM. Basically my needs are
ClarisDraw, the original Master of Orion and Warlords 2. For those games
the Mac versions are vastly superior to the PC versions since they allow for
larger video resolutions. Warlords 2 is the tricky one, it stopped working
right sometime during 8.x or 9. My only Mac laptop is a PowerBook 540c
which is 640x480, and I'd like something with higher resolution. I bought
it used as it was cheaper than getting the screen on my 520c fixed.
If there were an Amiga PPC laptop, I'd buy it
today. I was really impressed
with the ports to OS 4.1, and Origyn covers the Internet aspects.
For me the software isn't there. Anymore I have two options, Windows or Mac
OS X since my main apps are Adobe Lightroom and Photoshop. Besides the
price to performance ratio on the Amiga's is whacked. I didn't realize 4.1
was out. Any new hardware?
Zane
10:07 p.m.
New subject: Classic Mac (was: Amiga video to component video or VGA?)
The worst part is, SheepShaver was a commercial
product.
Oh, I know. I *know*. I have the commercial SheepShaver running on the BeBox!
The problem is that the BeBox really isn't up to the task, at least not OS
8.6. I did get some more RAM for it and I'm going to try to tinker with
the settings, but it's pretty glacial and it pegs the core(s). They're just
603s and that's probably why.
I've been really
tempted to look into an old enough PowerBook that it will run something in
the System 8.0 to 8.6 range. That would run all the Classic software I want
just fine. It wouldn't even need much RAM. Basically my needs are
ClarisDraw, the original Master of Orion and Warlords 2. For those games
the Mac versions are vastly superior to the PC versions since they allow for
larger video resolutions. Warlords 2 is the tricky one, it stopped working
right sometime during 8.x or 9. My only Mac laptop is a PowerBook 540c
which is 640x480, and I'd like something with higher resolution. I bought
it used as it was cheaper than getting the screen on my 520c fixed.
I bet an early G3 iBook would do the trick. You could run 8.1 on that, like
a Rev B blueberryBook or something. I have exactly that, with 576MB of RAM,
and it's *very* happy in OS 9.2.2. :) My primary OS 9 machines, though, are
a dual 1.25GHz G4 MDD and a 867MHz TiBook G4. They do very, very well! :-D
If there were
an Amiga PPC laptop, I'd buy it today. I was really impressed
with the ports to OS 4.1, and Origyn covers the Internet aspects.
For me the software isn't there. Anymore I have two options, Windows or Mac
OS X since my main apps are Adobe Lightroom and Photoshop. Besides the
price to performance ratio on the Amiga's is whacked. I didn't realize 4.1
was out. Any new hardware?
10:45 p.m.
New subject: Classic Mac (was: Amiga video to component video or VGA?)
At 7:07 PM -0700 9/16/09, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
They're 603's, of course that is why! :-)
The worst part
is, SheepShaver was a commercial product.
Oh, I know. I *know*. I have the commercial SheepShaver running on the BeBox!
The problem is that the BeBox really isn't up to the task, at least not OS
8.6. I did get some more RAM for it and I'm going to try to tinker with
the settings, but it's pretty glacial and it pegs the core(s). They're just
603s and that's probably why. I bet an early G3 iBook would do the trick. You could
run 8.1 on that, like
a Rev B blueberryBook or something. I have exactly that, with 576MB of RAM,
and it's *very* happy in OS 9.2.2. :) My primary OS 9 machines, though, are
a dual 1.25GHz G4 MDD and a 867MHz TiBook G4. They do very, very well! :-D
The G3 iBooks are 8.6 or newer. My G4/450 is one of the original
shipment, so it will actually run a special version of 8.6. For a
laptop it looks like I would want a Wallstreet, or Wallstreet II G3
PowerBook with the larger screen. Realistically I should just revive
either the G4/450 or 8500/180. I know I can run the software on the
8500.
I was looking at the SAMflex 440EP boards myself.
Really, to make a platform
useful to me personally I need a decent browser and SSH, and I can make do
with that. OS 9 gives me MacSSH, I'm dragging Classilla slowly up to spec,
and I have my old apps library, of course. But on AOS 4.1 I was impressed
to find a port of OpenSSH, Origyn Web Browser has a very nice implementation
of webkit (rough in some places but more than functional), and of course
lots of other well-behaved older apps. I can get a complete system for around
a grand. Since I'm a nerdy bachelor, I am really, really tempted.
I was taking a look at AROS earlier today. I'm getting pretty
impressed there. You can buy systems in the UK now that dual boot
AROS and Ubuntu. It looks pretty easy to get the parts, it uses a
standard Intel 330 Atom motherboard. I've been wanting to get
basically the exact same system for another purpose, so am really
tempted to get the parts and build one. If I don't like it, or find
I'm not using it I can rebuild it for the purpose I had originally
planned.
BTW, I also noticed that Haiku has just released Haiku Alpha 1.
That's pretty impressive. I'm not sure if that puts them ahead of
AROS or not.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
17 Sep
17 Sep
1:05 a.m.
New subject: Classic Mac (was: Amiga video to component video or VGA?)
I bet an early
G3 iBook would do the trick. You could run 8.1 on that,
The G3 iBooks are 8.6 or newer. BTW, I also noticed that Haiku has just released Haiku
Alpha 1.
That's pretty impressive. I'm not sure if that puts them ahead of
AROS or not.
Until I see Haiku/ppc it's dead to me ;-)
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. -- J. K. Galbraith -
16 Sep
16 Sep
4:16 p.m.
New subject: Classic Mac (was: Amiga video to component video or VGA?)
Cameron Kaiser wrote:
I was hoping that SheepShaver got picked up by someone
knowledgeable but so
far no one has, and it's not evolving. It still has a lot of stability issues
Give Basilisk II a shot for the 68k apps. http://basilisk.cebix.net/
9:51 p.m.
New subject: Classic Mac (was: Amiga video to component video or VGA?)
> I was hoping that SheepShaver got picked up by
someone knowledgeable but so
> far no one has, and it's not evolving. It still has a lot of stability
> issues
Give Basilisk II a shot for the 68k apps.
http://basilisk.cebix.net/
B2 is a great app. The problem is, it's 68K apps, and all of my 'interesting'
apps are PPC.
Someone(tm) needs to get SheepShaver to the same point B2 is at.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause. -- Chico Marx -------------
10:04 p.m.
New subject: Classic Mac (was: Amiga video to component video or VGA?)
At 6:51 PM -0700 9/16/09, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
That tells me I should be looking at Basilisk II then, and not
SheepShaver. All my "interesting" apps are 68k or I have Mac OS X
versions, and if they aren't already, they soon will have Intel
native versions.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
> I was
hoping that SheepShaver got picked up by someone
knowledgeable but so
> far no one has, and it's not evolving.
It still has a lot of stability
> issues
Give Basilisk II a shot for the 68k apps.
http://basilisk.cebix.net/
B2 is a great app. The problem is, it's 68K apps, and all of my 'interesting'
apps are PPC.
Someone(tm) needs to get SheepShaver to the same point B2 is at.
10:08 p.m.
New subject: Classic Mac (was: Amiga video to component video or VGA?)
Someone(tm)
needs to get SheepShaver to the same point B2 is at.
That tells me I should be looking at Basilisk II then, and not
SheepShaver. All my "interesting" apps are 68k or I have Mac OS X
versions, and if they aren't already, they soon will have Intel
native versions. 
2:07 p.m.
New subject: Classic Mac (was: Amiga video to component video or VGA?)
On Sep 16, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
That's pretty much where I am. I think there are
quite a few people
who
won't update past Tiger for the same reason.
I'm one of those people.
I would be surprised if Apple
kept releasing security patches, though. Steve Jobs has shown a
remarkable
penchant for rapidly jettisoning the past, which is as always good
and bad.
If only Intel would do that..
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
2:31 p.m.
New subject: Classic Mac (was: Amiga video to component video or VGA?)
"Zane H. Healy" wrote:
Once I switch to the Mac Pro I'll have to decide if I setup a Classic
Mac to run a couple apps (there is no replacement for me for
ClarisDraw aka MacDraw), or if I run them under an emulator). I've
stayed at 10.4.11 so I can continue to run Classic.
I'm actually still running native Classic for these sorts of reasons. I must
try out Cameron's Classilla for an improved browser, but I've been meaning to
ask here about ClarisDraw/MacDraw for awhile.
I have hundreds of pages of reverse-engineered schematics of old equipment,
drawn in ClarisWorks. It's my own 'symbol library' so I don't expect to be
able
to convert them easily to some common CAD schematic capture, but does anyone
know of a conversion or upgrade path to pull these into the future (or
present), besides printing and scanning them?
Alternatively, is the file format definition out there in public, so I might
write a conversion program some day?
3 p.m.
New subject: Classic Mac (was: Amiga video to component video or VGA?)
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009, Brent Hilpert wrote:
try out Cameron's Classilla for an improved
browser, but I've been meaning to
ask here about ClarisDraw/MacDraw for awhile.
I have hundreds of pages of reverse-engineered schematics of old equipment,
drawn in ClarisWorks. It's my own 'symbol library' so I don't expect to
be able
to convert them easily to some common CAD schematic capture, but does anyone
know of a conversion or upgrade path to pull these into the future (or
present), besides printing and scanning them?
Alternatively, is the file format definition out there in public, so I might
write a conversion program some day?
Over the past 2-3 years or so there have been several applications that will
read the ClarisDraw file format. However, to the best of my knowledge none
of them will read a custom 'symbol library', I have a library of my own
symbols as well, and haven't tried to read it with anything else. I forget
what the app I have that will read them is called, I like it more for
converting than for using as a drawing program.
One of these days, after I move to a more modern Mac, I want to demo the
various CAD packages that are available. I've been thinking, and I suspect
that a CAD app is likely to be more to my liking than any of the drawing
apps (I even own Adobe Illustrator and hate it).
Zane
3:08 p.m.
New subject: Classic Mac (was: Amiga video to component video or VGA?)
A few people in our lab needed access to an OS 9 era program called
StatView on their Intel-based Macs (currently running 10.6.1) so I
installed SheepShaver (specifically something called "Classic on
Intel") which provides a Classic-like Mac OS 9.2.2 environment. So far
everything is working perfectly. In fact, the users are quite pleased
because StatView runs considerably faster under ShapeShaver on their
current Macs than it did on the hardware it was originally run on.
Using an older, non-supported version of OS X just wasn't an option.
--
Golan Klinger <gklinger at gmail.com>
Dark is the suede that mows like a harvest.
9:52 p.m.
New subject: Classic Mac (was: Amiga video to component video or VGA?)
A few people in our lab needed access to an OS 9 era
program called
StatView on their Intel-based Macs (currently running 10.6.1) so I
installed SheepShaver (specifically something called "Classic on
Intel") which provides a Classic-like Mac OS 9.2.2 environment. So far
everything is working perfectly. In fact, the users are quite pleased
because StatView runs considerably faster under ShapeShaver on their
current Macs than it did on the hardware it was originally run on.
Using an older, non-supported version of OS X just wasn't an option.
SheepShaver is great *for those apps that work with it*. The problem is there
are a lot of apps that just don't, and it has no MMU, so apps requiring 9.1
and 9.2 need not apply. It also has quite a number of crash bugs.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Doesn't everyone cry when Vin Diesel tries to act? -- Impact Alberto, CAA --
15 Sep
15 Sep
11:45 p.m.
Brian Lanning wrote:
On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 10:20 PM, Teo Zenios <teoz
at neo.rr.com> wrote:
Isn't there a ColdFire upgrade out there too? I'd imagine that would be
*really* fast.
Peace... Sridhar
I kind of wonder why people bother with 060's
and PPC on Amigas, very little
was made that can use it.
There's definitely PPC software out there, but nowhere near as much as
the 68k stuff. And the 68060 can theoretically run all of the
software back to the 68000. I have a 68030 in my 2000 and it can
still feel sluggish, especially at higher resolutions and color
depths. It would be nice to hvae a 68060, but not $500 nice. lol
11:43 p.m.
At 11:20 PM -0400 9/15/09, Teo Zenios wrote:
I kind of wonder why people bother with 060's and
PPC on Amigas,
very little was made that can use it.
The people that have those tend, or at least tended to only use the
Amiga. While I wanted one, I'd have been happy with a 040 upgrade
for my A3000. At the same time I was using the A3000 a lot, I was
also using a P166 with OPENSTEP, and a PowerMac 8500/180.
Didn't the 3D software used to do the graphics for Babylon 5 and
other shows (name escapes me) make use of at least the 060 upgrades?
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
16 Sep
16 Sep
12:06 a.m.
Zane H. Healy wrote:
Didn't the 3D software used to do the graphics for
Babylon 5 and other
shows (name escapes me) make use of at least the 060 upgrades?
The Amiga, with a Video Toaster, was responsible for the
animatics/roughs of Jurassic Park, and was also used for the entire
first season of Babylon 5. (Later seasons used SGI)
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/
11:22 a.m.
At 11:06 PM 9/15/2009, Jim Leonard wrote:
Zane H. Healy wrote:
I don't remember any SGIs, and neither do these guys at the moment
they were interviewed.
http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/making/effects.html
Newtek's Lightwave software for 3D animation ran on Amigas first,
using the Toaster side only as a framebuffer for desk-checks of
the higher quality NTSC output. The reality is, the rendered digital
versions of frames were often pushed out through other real-time
digital playback devices such as the Abekas (the DDR mentioned above).
Later versions of Lightwave were ported to Windows both Intel and Alpha.
For a year or two window in the early 90s, the Alpha had an edge over Intel.
Moto released the '060 in '94 but I don't remember when the first
Amiga boards appeared.
That article mentions some effects done in Softimage. I know that
Thornton used 3D Studio for some of the modelling in the early days of B5,
as they'd use my 3D conversion software to move the models from 3DS format
to Lightwave... but you'll have to take my word for that. As we've seen
time and time again, press releases seem to write computer history. :-)
- John
Didn't the 3D software used to do the graphics
for Babylon 5 and other shows (name escapes me) make use of at least the 060 upgrades?
The Amiga, with a Video Toaster, was responsible for the animatics/roughs of Jurassic
Park, and was also used for the entire first season of Babylon 5. (Later seasons used
SGI)
2:03 p.m.
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009, John Foust wrote:
I don't remember any SGIs, and neither do these
guys at the moment
they were interviewed.
http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/making/effects.html
Newtek's Lightwave software for 3D animation ran on Amigas first,
using the Toaster side only as a framebuffer for desk-checks of
the higher quality NTSC output. The reality is, the rendered digital
versions of frames were often pushed out through other real-time
digital playback devices such as the Abekas (the DDR mentioned above).
Later versions of Lightwave were ported to Windows both Intel and Alpha.
For a year or two window in the early 90s, the Alpha had an edge over Intel.
Moto released the '060 in '94 but I don't remember when the first
Amiga boards appeared.
Lightwave, that's the software I was trying to remember. I can guarentee
it ran on SGI IRIX machines as well. I don't know if SGI's were used in
making B5 though.
Zane
15 Sep
15 Sep
11:39 p.m.
At 10:13 PM -0500 9/15/09, Brian Lanning wrote:
I got rid of 3 A2000's a couple years ago to another list member. At
the time I needed the space more than 3 A2000's. I still have 1.5
A500's, 1 A600, 2 A3000's, and 2 A1200's (I might be able to build 1
working from the two, but it need's surface mount work). The A3000 I
got from someone who got it from Magni (I also have a pair of Magni
Genlock's), and I fully upgraded it with the latest chips, full
16MB+2MB RAM, ethernet, a Picasso IV video card, and Amiga OS 3.9. I
never could bring myself to spend the $$$'s on a CPU accelerator
card. The 2nd A3000 is basically pristine in the boxes. Though I
think the keyboard is in an A2000 box, not an A3000 box.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
I forgot about the vga adapter on the 3000.
That was why I went with an Amiga 3000 and an Atari TT030 in the late
90's. I'm hoping to revive both machines this winter, both spent way
to many years in storage while we lived in an apartment. Now that we
have a house they're at home with us, and I have some room to work on
them.
The upgrades are getting expensive these days though.
Look at this:
http://www.softhut.com/cgi-bin/test/Web_store/web_store.cgi?page=catalog/ha…
I just can't bring myself to spend $500 on an amiga. Many fine
woodworking machines can be had for that. Still, the 68060 boards are
awesome.
I didn't realize Software Hut was still around. Guess I just had bad
timing last time I tried to go to their website. That's not that bad
of a price, I think they were slightly more 10 years ago.
Zane (who is
hoping to revive my A500 and/or A3000 this winter)
I'd like to have a 500 and 3000. Care to trade a working 2000 for both? :-D
16 Sep
16 Sep
1:58 a.m.
Still, the 500 was the one I had and I'd like to
have one again.
Mine has a GVP A570. Really useful box. It mostly plays games though, the
occasional app.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Math according to Pentium: 2 / 2 = 1.037587439439485486372112039523781385 ...
8:36 a.m.
Mine has a GVP
A570.
Do you mean a Commodore A570 CD interface or a GVP A530 expansion unit?
7:52 a.m.
Brian Lanning wrote:
I just can't bring myself to spend $500 on an
amiga.
That comment made me smile. I would feel a lot less sheepish had I
*only* spent $500 on upgrading my Amiga 1200. As it stands, I've spent
between two and three times that amount adding a Blizzard 68060
accelerator, a Blizzard SCSI adaptor, 265MB of RAM, solid state
storage, an Indivision 1200, a Subway USB controller, a Neobitz
component video board and an ethernet card. There's more but you get
the idea. I have assigned it a befitting network name: moneypit.
--
Golan Klinger <gklinger at gmail.com>
Dark is the suede that mows like a harvest.
10:20 a.m.
At 7:52 AM -0400 9/16/09, Golan Klinger wrote:
Brian Lanning wrote:
Wouldn't we all, I hate to think about what I've spent on my A3000,
and I don't have half the system you do.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
I just can't bring myself to spend $500 on
an amiga.
That comment made me smile. I would feel a lot less sheepish had I
*only* spent $500 on upgrading my Amiga 1200. As it stands, I've spent
between two and three times that amount adding a Blizzard 68060
accelerator, a Blizzard SCSI adaptor, 265MB of RAM, solid state
storage, an Indivision 1200, a Subway USB controller, a Neobitz
component video board and an ethernet card. There's more but you get
the idea. I have assigned it a befitting network name: moneypit.
7:59 p.m.
On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 6:52 AM, Golan Klinger <gklinger at gmail.com> wrote:
Brian Lanning wrote:
That comment made me smile. I would feel a lot less sheepish had I
*only* spent $500 on upgrading my Amiga 1200. As it stands, I've spent
between two and three times that amount adding a Blizzard 68060
accelerator, a Blizzard SCSI adaptor, 265MB of RAM, solid state
storage, an Indivision 1200, a Subway USB controller, a Neobitz
component video board and an ethernet card. There's more but you get
the idea. I have assigned it a befitting network name: moneypit.
I'd love to have that machine. :-) But $1500 buys a lot of
woodworking machinery. Gotta have priorities I guess. lol
brian
5423
days inactive
5424
days old
37 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
brianlanning＠gmail.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
gklinger＠gmail.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
hilpert＠cs.ubc.ca -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
ploopster＠gmail.com -
ray＠arachelian.com -
spectre＠floodgap.com -
teoz＠neo.rr.com -
trixter＠oldskool.org