8 Apr
1998
8 Apr
'98
5:03 p.m.
In a message dated 4/8/98 9:48:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, marvin(a)rain.org
writes:
<< Joe wrote:
The one thing that does piss me off is when people
sell stuff on one of
the high cost services like E-bay but place ads for it here. But I must
admit that I've done it too.
I would disagree with this as part of the continuing education in any
collectable field is having some idea of what the market value is, and ebay
certainly provides some guidance in that regard! >>
Well, i'd be willing to argue that. i dont think i would consider ebay to set
current market prices for anything. i have a friend who uses it, and he said
it's great for the seller if one is selling anything quasi-rare or semi-
unusual as the manic bidders want to outdo themselves and drive the prices way
up. he said i should sell my apple //c lcd screen on ebay as he said one went
for almost $400. besides, i have seen prices there fluctuate wildly anyway.
david
8 Apr
8 Apr
10:01 p.m.
I guess this would depend on how the market perceives the pricing as seen on
ebay. The Altairs that recently sold there for about $1.5K seemed extremely
reasonable to me considering I was contacted a while back by someone wanting
to buy one of my Altairs. They had sold their previous one for $3K. Every
auction I have ever gone to has always had some clueless bidders bidding
pricing up to the point where knowledgable bidders just laugh (and cry!)
This debate surfaces every so ofter, and I continue to look at selling
prices where there a number of buyers (such as ebay) as a place to watch re:
the final pricing.
SUPRDAVE wrote:
In a message dated 4/8/98 9:48:53 PM Eastern Daylight
Time,
marvin(a)rain.org
writes:
I would disagree with this as part of the continuing education in any
collectable field is having some idea of what the market value is, and
ebay
certainly provides some guidance in that regard! >
Well, i'd be willing to argue that. i dont think i would consider ebay to
set
current market prices for anything. i have a friend who uses it, and he
said
it's great for the seller if one is selling anything quasi-rare or semi-
unusual as the manic bidders want to outdo themselves and drive the prices
way
up. he said i should sell my apple //c lcd screen on ebay as he said one
went
for almost $400. besides, i have seen prices there fluctuate wildly
anyway.
9 Apr
9 Apr
5:01 a.m.
Marvin wrote:
I guess this would depend on how the market perceives
the pricing as seen on
ebay. The Altairs that recently sold there for about $1.5K seemed extremely
reasonable to me considering I was contacted a while back by someone wanting
to buy one of my Altairs. They had sold their previous one for $3K. Every
auction I have ever gone to has always had some clueless bidders bidding
pricing up to the point where knowledgable bidders just laugh (and cry!)
This debate surfaces every so ofter, and I continue to look at selling
prices where there a number of buyers (such as ebay) as a place to watch re:
the final pricing.
Dang...I was at a local scrap yard (they bust things down and sell the different
materials) and there was an Altair faceplate (smashed up and unuseable) laying
in the top of the bin of steel. I wonder if the person that "donated" it to the
scrapper knew what he or she had before they did this terrible
thing? --------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Blakeman
RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
ICQ # 1714857
* Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
--------------------------------------------------------------------
5:26 a.m.
New subject: Wirehead Update
First, let me make an observation. Have you ever watched 6th graders at
recess? They spend more time arguing about the rules than they do
playing the game. Just an observation. Doesn't mean anything. =-)
Second, I can't believe it. A friend of mine says he has an actual
Frieden (sp?) Flexowriter in a storage locker that he'll give me! The
Flexowriter was used as part of the console on PDP-1s etc. Steven Levy,
in Hackers, described it (not exact quote) as sounding like a small
machine gun battle. =-) I need to verify that that is what it is but
does anything have docs for these things?
Third, I've decided to set the SWTPC 6800 aside for a while until I can
get some better test gear or until I get the patience to swap chips until
I find its problem. I did lift the D input on the questionable flip-flop
(which has now been replaced 3 times without change in behavior...so it's
not the flip-flop) and *pow* the NOT HALT line goes high. System,
however, is still somewhat goofed up so I'm suspecting a problem with the
timing circuits which directly or indirectly drive all the other inputs
on the flip-flop. There's also a 7400 and a 7408 in the timing circuit,
used to do things to the clock. The 7400 has been replaced twice to no
effect but the 7408 is the chip right before the timing stuff goes to the
flip-flop and I consider it suspect. Final possibility are a pair of
complementary transistors in a dip package that someone hacked on the
board to replace the original transistors (TO package) that were there.
At any rate, I've decided to focus on the Northstar Horizon (got one in
the mail in good shape...it's not the crusty one in the garage) and the
PDP-8s and PDP-11s in the garage. Don't worry...it's an attached, dry,
semi-heated garage so they're no worse off than in the basement.
The systems that need to be brought in and dealt with are
11/34 without programmer console
11/84
3 PDP8i
I'm really excited about them because they're all in good shape...well
the 11/34 MIGHT have a problem with the RK-05f. In the truck, on the way
back from St. Louis the 11/34 broke loose from its straps (due to the
lack of diligence on the part of my assistant) and rolled all over the truck.
Hit the accellerator, *BOOOOOOM*, hit the brake *BOOOOOOM*. I thought
someone had hit me with their car. But it appeared undamaged and I've
heard stories about DEC gear being rolled down stairs and still working
so I'm somewhat hopeful. ;-)
The other thing I need to do is find uses for the pile of 386 and 486
boxes in my garage. It's 6 feet wide and 4 feet tall, neatly stacked.
A few machines running the Ersatz-11 emulator, a couple more running some
CP/M emulators, one or two for disk conversions, a few more for packet
radio and I think I shut down my local power grid. =-)
Anthony Clifton - Wirehead
8:53 a.m.
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11:59 a.m.
New subject: Wirehead Update
Did you clamp the heads and/or remove the pack from
the RK05f before
moving it? If so, nothing to worry about. If not, then there's a slight
possibility that the heads have shot across the platter and done damage.
It'll probably be OK, though. I _may_ have some spare RK05f heads
somewhere (they are different to normal RK05 ones), but I can't be sure.
I thought RK05 and 5f's auto-parked (I seem to remember a metal
ramp off the duck bill that they locked down on on power down.
Bill
(boy those field service days are getting dim)
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 |
| 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. |
| pechter(a)shell.monmouth.com |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
1:47 p.m.
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3:34 p.m.
New subject: Wirehead Update
I don't have the manuals, but I've dismantled
and rebuilt a Friden
Flexowriter and almost got it aligned. One day I'll finish the job.
[Much useful and interesting Frieden info deleted for brevity]
Did you clamp the heads and/or remove the pack from
the RK05f before
moving it? If so, nothing to worry about. If not, then there's a slight
possibility that the heads have shot across the platter and done damage.
It'll probably be OK, though. I _may_ have some spare RK05f heads
somewhere (they are different to normal RK05 ones), but I can't be sure.
Well I went to pick up the 3 8i systems and then went over to the
University to pick up the 11/34, which I thought was just the CPU box
without drives. We only had an hour to get it into the truck and we pull
up and the thing is the 6 foot rack with an 11/34, RK05f and RK05j. And
they were all mounted in the top half with the bottom half empty. We
about died, literally perhaps, trying to roll the thing into the truck.
(At one point while rolling it out the door on the dolly...it took two of
us just to tip the thing backward...it rolled over the lip and slid and
started falling on us. Neither I nor my assistant is a weakling and we
could barely hold it up. We were saved by a helpful student...literally.
We weren't thinking much about the heads at that point. We had backed
the truck into the loading dock next to the dumpster which was right
against the ledge...we spent several minutes in the cold debating whether
the truck or the dumpster was the better receptacle for the machine.
The truck won. Of course, then the machine broke loose and the truck
lost for a few minutes...but in a different way. =-)
If the heads are toasty, I'll keep your email handy. Thanks.
Anthony Clifton - Wirehead
4:09 p.m.
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8:59 a.m.
New subject: Wirehead Update
The systems that need to be brought in and dealt with
are
11/34 without programmer console
11/84
3 PDP8i
I'm really excited about them because they're all in good shape...well
the 11/34 MIGHT have a problem with the RK-05f. In the truck, on the way
back from St. Louis the 11/34 broke loose from its straps (due to the
lack of diligence on the part of my assistant) and rolled all over the truck.
Hit the accellerator, *BOOOOOOM*, hit the brake *BOOOOOOM*. I thought
someone had hit me with their car. But it appeared undamaged and I've
heard stories about DEC gear being rolled down stairs and still working
so I'm somewhat hopeful. ;-)
Don't worry about the RK05f. If the head was retracted and locked it'll
take almost anything.
RKO5 war story follows:
I had one that was bounced up and down two flights of stairs after being
"scrapped" due to a fire at one site. I took it home, alcohol bathed
the platter, reinserted it and booted RT11 without problems (and with
the customer's data intact). The only real fire damage was the serial cables
that were a bit charred and severed by (I think) axes.
The beast (11/23 cpu in an 11/03 corporate cab) ran RT11 and served as
a Sysgen test bed for a while until I sold it to a friend who
modified the RKV11 for 18 bit addressing and ran RSTS on it.
I head crashed an RK05 at DEC Princeton running RT11 on the finance 11/70
during a PM once. The head hit a 1/4 inch bulge in the disk platter
caused by DEC Security mailing me back the disk standing on edge (touching
one screw that holds the case on the platters ). (Don't ask me about
that one... they had this policy of inspecting all packs coming out of
training after someone tried to bootleg VAX/VMS in the mid '80's, anyway
after about four weeks they send me back my RT11 games/gen pack with
RT11v4 on it.)
I figured a sysgen on the 11/70 would be quick and a valid PM test (since
the diags already worked and the machine was down for the day for a move).
I heard this loud ping ping ping sound and unloaded the pack to see a black
scarred upper head. I had no spares and no time to get them and align
the head in time. My coworker now in DEC Colorado said not to worry and
scraped the head with a pocket knife removing the scar and we then alcohol
cleaned it. The drive ran all diags and under the OS (RSTS/E 7.2)
error free.
Bill
3:20 p.m.
New subject: Wirehead Update
I heard this loud ping ping ping sound and unloaded
the pack to see a black
When I've heard that sound (and it wasn't pleasant) I always thought it
sounded like shing shing shing but that's neither here nor there. =-)
scarred upper head. I had no spares and no time to
get them and align
the head in time. My coworker now in DEC Colorado said not to worry and
scraped the head with a pocket knife removing the scar and we then alcohol
cleaned it. The drive ran all diags and under the OS (RSTS/E 7.2)
error free.
Hmmmm...I'm feeling a bit more hopeful! =-)
Anthony Clifton - Wirehead
12:06 p.m.
New subject: Wirehead Update
The other thing I need to do is find uses for the pile
of 386 and 486
boxes in my garage. It's 6 feet wide and 4 feet tall, neatly stacked.
Well, since they are 386's and 486's I'd recommend finding a worthy charity
that could use them, though you might be able to unload the 486's at a swap
meet.
Of course the smartalick answer that came to mind was to turn them on end,
get some cement, and build a shed useing them instead of bricks :^)
A few machines running the Ersatz-11 emulator, a couple
more running some
CP/M emulators, one or two for disk conversions, a few more for packet
radio and I think I shut down my local power grid. =-)
I've got to confess I keep wondering when I'm going to do this or at least
blow the fuses in the house. Haven't done either so far.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |
11 a.m.
New subject: Wirehead Update
It was thus said that the Great Zane H. Healy once stated:
>The other thing I need to do is find uses for the pile of 386 and 486
>boxes in my garage. It's 6 feet wide and 4 feet tall, neatly stacked.
Well, you could install Linux/Beowulf on them and get supercomputer
performance, then rent space on them. Beowulf is clustering software for
Linux developed at NASA and freely available. It's been used in several
other labs with great results (from what I hear).
Check out http://cesdis.gsfc.nasa.gov/linux/beowulf/ for more information.
Of course the smartalick answer that came to mind was
to turn them on end,
get some cement, and build a shed useing them instead of bricks :^)
Of course there's always that.
-spc (Or set up a massively parallel web server and rent space out on it)
1:57 p.m.
New subject: Wirehead Update
Or you could install linux on them and donate them to 3rd world
countries as mail/usenet uucp machines for individual
villages. This is a _useful_ and humane thing to do!
--jmg
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:00:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Captain Napalm <spc(a)armigeron.com>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Wirehead Update
It was thus said that the Great Zane H. Healy once stated:
>The other thing I need to do is find uses for the pile of 386 and 486
>boxes in my garage. It's 6 feet wide and 4 feet tall, neatly stacked.
Well, you could install Linux/Beowulf on them and get supercomputer
performance, then rent space on them. Beowulf is clustering software for
Linux developed at NASA and freely available. It's been used in several
other labs with great results (from what I hear).
Check out http://cesdis.gsfc.nasa.gov/linux/beowulf/ for more information.
Of course the smartalick answer that came to mind
was to turn them on end,
get some cement, and build a shed useing them instead of bricks :^)
Of course there's always that.
-spc (Or set up a massively parallel web server and rent space out on it)
3:40 p.m.
New subject: Creative Retrocomputing Use for 386s and 486s
WIREHEAD'S CRAZY THOUGHT FOR THE DAY
Using old 386 and 486 computers and their parallel ports to replace
missing peripherals from true retrocomputing systems. Hmmm...
I wonder if a 386, for example, with a properly programmed parallel port
could emulate...say...a disk drive with a particular interface that you
can't find anymore.
Interesting thought?
Anthony Clifton - Wirehead
3:26 p.m.
New subject: Wirehead Update
Well, since they are 386's and 486's I'd
recommend finding a worthy charity
that could use them, though you might be able to unload the 486's at a swap
meet.
Actually, I've considered that in the past but I've found that most
worthy charities don't have someone with the knowhow or time to make them
be useful. In Des Moines, there is a group that works on the machines
and then donates them as well...but...let's just say, to be nice, that
I'm not entirely confident of their...uh...ethics...because from the
rumors I hear the folks that do the work end up getting the best stuff
for themselves....even though it was donated for the express purpose of
going to a worthy charity. :-/ We'll leave it at that.
I'm sure other cities have groups, however, that are reputable and
ethical so the above is not intended to cast aspersions on other groups.
And, as I say, all I hear are rumors so I can't confirm it.
Generally, I cannibalize them for parts to fix machines at work or to
repair friends' computers or my own computers.
Anthony Clifton - Wirehead
7:56 p.m.
New subject: Wirehead Update
Wirehead Prime wrote:
I'm sure other cities have groups, however, that
are reputable and
ethical so the above is not intended to cast aspersions on other groups.
And, as I say, all I hear are rumors so I can't confirm it.
Louisville has a similar group and gets anything and everything. On occasion I
even get some of the items that they can't use and would otherwise go to the dump
(which are my usual freebies for shipping only). They have people all over 6 or 8
counties doing donated work and by the time they get to a firend of mine they're
down to machines that are total crap (for them anyway) or stuff they can't use,
such as mca PS/2's. I in turn swap them for a reasonable amount of items they can
use for the other donated machines such as SIMMs (which most donations are
stripped of), video cards, etc. So in a round about way I pay for them the same
as anyone here does when they barter or go to a thrift or conignment shop. The
real problem here is that they work with visually impaired end users that need
specific equipment and the donations are generally too limited. They do get some
really nice machines, such as 486 and Pentiums but more often than not they get
286, 386SX and DX machines. Some can be used, some can't. The do appear to have
reputable people in the Louisville building but the items they know nothing about
or need parts from are in bad shape by the time they leave, usually piled in
boxes of mixed items.
Generally, I cannibalize them for parts to fix
machines at work or to
repair friends' computers or my own computers.
Since I pay for the parts I swap them for, I usually sell them for a few cents on
a dollar profit, or use in repairs of local household users to keep the costs
down. A 386 PS/2 is a great beginner or kids machine for a family that has a
limited budget and wants to get into the age of automation or wants a utility
machine for the kids to be able to do term papers and other school related tasks.
This keeps that main machine open for household accounting, games, extensive
educational programs, etc. My biggest use of the parts I swap for or get cheap is
a church homeschool group. They have a ton of PS/2's donated by Ford Motors in
L'ville but of course industry has no use for items such as sound cards, but they
do and I have a heck of a time locating any to get for them. Sure, they could buy
new mca sound cards for $160, if they had the bucks to do it.
The real bugger is when I have to file these even swaps (for business purposes)
with the IRS. You have to do a complete form for EVERY transaction you do like
this. I don't normally worry about my personal items, like the stuff I pick up
here and there for myself, not connected with my part time (yeah right) business.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Blakeman
RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
ICQ # 1714857
* Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
--------------------------------------------------------------------
8 Apr
8 Apr
11:07 p.m.
On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, SUPRDAVE wrote:
I agree. Ebay is definitely NOT indicative of "actual market value". Its
all based on scarcity, and scarcity varies from area to area around the
country and the world. Someone thinking they got a great deal on a
complete C64 system for $25 got ripped off since I can pick up something
similar locally for less than $10.
The one
thing that does piss me off is when people sell stuff on one of
the high cost services like E-bay but place ads for it here. But I must
admit that I've done it too.
I would disagree with this as part of the continuing education in any
collectable field is having some idea of what the market value is, and ebay
certainly provides some guidance in that regard! >>
Well, i'd be willing to argue that. i dont think i would consider ebay to set
current market prices for anything. i have a friend who uses it, and he said
it's great for the seller if one is selling anything quasi-rare or semi-
unusual as the manic bidders want to outdo themselves and drive the prices way up. he said i should sell my apple //c lcd screen on
ebay as he said one went
for almost $400. besides, i have seen prices there fluctuate wildly anyway.
Ugh! Don't do that! Sell it to someone who would appreciate and
actually use it (like me! :)
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't blame me...I voted for Satan.
Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 04/08/98]
9607
days inactive
9608
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17 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
dastar＠wco.com -
healyzh＠ix.netcom.com -
marvin＠rain.org -
maynard＠jmg.com -
pechter＠shell.monmouth.com -
rhblake＠bbtel.com -
spc＠armigeron.com -
SUPRDAVE＠aol.com -
wirehead＠retrocomputing.com