20 Mar
1998
20 Mar
'98
4:06 a.m.
Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
BTW, how are you getting on with that ASR-33? Need any
more help? I can
look up details for you, and attempt to describe the bits in question.
I found someone who was willing to xerox the service manual for me
at cost, approximately USD $4-8. Someone else wanted to sell me the
set for $20. Being a "millionaire cheapskate", I took the former,
assuming the latter would still be there if I needed it. :-)
Along the same line, if anyone has a spare current-loop to RS-232
adapter that would cost less than a new one, I'd love to get it.
I believe my Terak handles 20 ma, but I'd rather have a more generic
link from the ASR-33 to other computers.
I was half -joking, don't worry. If I seriously
considered that the ASR33
was off-topic, do you think I'd type up and post sections from the repair
manuals?
I very much appreciated that. Above and beyond the call of duty.
I joined the "Greenkeys" mailing list, a ham radio RTTY list. I described
my web page regarding old ASCII art, and one fellow sent me a box of
30-40 year-old RTTY ASCII art - pictures of President Eisenhower, etc.
Some is printed, some is Baudot 5-level tape, some 7-bit tape.
Yes, that definition is very wide. It would allow
mechanical
calculators and things like that (anybody got strong views on keeping
these off the list?).
As a teen, I remember disassembling a Freiden (?) calculator, and
finding a wire loop memory, several circles about a foot in diameter.
But the calculator collectors have their own lists, don't they?
- John
Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>
20 Mar
20 Mar
11:44 a.m.
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7:43 p.m.
New subject: Delay lines
At 22:44 3/20/98 +0000, you wrote:
Exactly. In the particular case of the Friden it was called a supersonic
delay line, although I've never been sure why.
Hear, hear! Especially since many so-called calculators were built by
manufacturers not, for whatever reason, prepared to admit they were
building computers -- with IBM and HP springing to mind at once.
__________________________________________
Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org
http://www.chac.org/index.html
Computer History Association of California
As a teen, I
remember disassembling a Freiden (?) calculator, and
finding a wire loop memory, several circles about a foot in diameter.
Probably a solid delay line store. But the
calculator collectors have their own lists, don't they?
True... I'd just not object to the odd thread on [calculators]
particularly if they were historically significant (the HP9100...),
technically interesting, or whatever. 
8:21 p.m.
New subject: Delay lines
On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, Kip Crosby wrote:
Hear, hear! Especially since many so-called calculators were built by
manufacturers not, for whatever reason, prepared to admit they were
building computers -- with IBM and HP springing to mind at once.
I know people collect calculators, but I just can't imagine how it can
bring the same kind of satisfaction as computer collecting. You can't
really hack a calculator. They don't lend themselves very well to
restoration efforts. They can't do many tricks. And few of them have any
sort of personality (OK, I'll admit that HP tries pretty hard in this
area).
Has anybody ventured a definition of computer that allows us to weed out
mere calculators? How about:
* must be programmable
* must be general purpose
* must have alphanumeric input capabilites
* must have alphanumeric display capabilites
Unfortunately, this would mean that an Altair isn't a computer until you
add a terminal, but it keeps those pesky HP-65's out of the group.
-- Doug
But the calculator collectors have their own lists,
don't they?
True... I'd just not object to the odd thread on [calculators]
particularly if they were historically significant (the HP9100...),
technically interesting, or whatever.
8:35 p.m.
New subject: TRS-80 Model 1
Somebody asked me:
"I have a TSR Model 1 fully expanded to 84k. The only problem is the
monitor cable end is damaged and needs replacement. Is it worth any
thing?"
I don't do TRS-80's. Can anybody help this guy out with a ballpark
estimate?
Thanks,
Doug
25 Mar
25 Mar
7:02 a.m.
New subject: TRS-80 Model 1
Doug Yowza wrote:
Somebody asked me:
"I have a TSR Model 1 fully expanded to 84k. The only problem is the
monitor cable end is damaged and needs replacement. Is it worth any
thing?"
I don't do TRS-80's. Can anybody help this guy out with a ballpark
estimate?
Last time I checked, an appropriate DIN connector was available at
any Radio Shack store. _Much_ easier to find than the DIN connector
for a Color Computer joystick.
And we'll have to assume a transposition error on that RAM amount.
48K is a blown-out Model One's limit from stock parts.
--
Ward Griffiths
Dylan: How many years must some people exist,
before they're allowed to be free?
WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed",
they'll never be free.
21 Mar
21 Mar
5:35 a.m.
New subject: Delay lines
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6:39 p.m.
New subject: Delay lines
At 04:35 PM 3/21/98 +0000, you wrote:
Tony is being modest! He brought and demo'd an interface of his own
design that connected to an HP-48 and controlled a robot arm using an I2C
serial interface. He had it moving disks from one peg to another two in
the classic Towers of Hanoi problem.
I know people
collect calculators, but I just can't imagine how it can
bring the same kind of satisfaction as computer collecting. You can't
really hack a calculator. They don't lend themselves very well to
If you'd been at last year's HPCC conference you'd not say that (or that
they can't do many tricks). We had an improved symbolic algebra library
written by hackers (not by HP), a calculator monitoring and controlling
the real world, people programming calculators in machine code, etc.
There were more hacks there than at the average PC user group IMHO
(although that says more for the average PC user :-().
A LOT more than in the present WinDoze PC users!
Other hacks have included the HP42SV (an HP42S with 32K RAM, rather than
the standard 8K), etc.
I wouldn't say that. I've reverse engineered many of the HP calcs and
can/have successfully repaired 90+ % of them. And not just a few times,
I've repaired hundreds of them. Fortunately the custom parts are usually
the most reliable.
restoration efforts. They can't do many
tricks. And few of them have any
I'll agree that restoring them is often hard (since they use 100% custom chips, and spares are not available). On the other
hand, there were
desktop machines using mostly standard components...
Good idea Tony! The 67 and 97 are almost identical designs. In the
97S, they intercept some of the bus signals and send them to the external
interface as outputs and route input signals from the interface back to the
processor in place of the keyboard inputs. Building a 67S would be very
easy to do. I may try it if I ever get time.
Joe
Has anybody ventured a definition of computer
that allows us to weed out
mere calculators? How about:
* must be programmable
* must be general purpose
* must have alphanumeric input capabilites
* must have alphanumeric display capabilites
Unfortunately, this would mean that an Altair isn't a computer until you
add a terminal, but it keeps those pesky HP-65's out of the group.
It would allow in many of the HP models including (I think) the HP9100,
since you could link up standard alphanumeric printers and card readers
And what's wrong with the HP65? It was the first handheld programmable,
after all.
A possible calculator hack. HP sold a version of the HP97 printing
calculator called the HP97S. It had an external interface box which
allowed it to read a BCD number from an external device, and also brought
out the 4 user flags as TTL outputs. Now, the HP67 has a very similar
internal design, and the interface box is all 4000-CMOS and a couple of
tiny ROMs as state machines. How about making an HP67S...
-- Doug
-tony
11:27 p.m.
New subject: Delay lines
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22 Mar
22 Mar
6:58 a.m.
New subject: Delay lines
At 10:27 3/22/98 +0000, you wrote:
Card reader rollers (silicone rubber tubing used for
glow plug engine
fuel lines is sometimes useful for reparing these).
Tony, I've said it before and I'll say it again -- you're too much.
-- kc, who once raised the compression of a Cox .020 so far that he blew
off the head.
4:36 p.m.
New subject: Next Computers
I just heard about a few Next computers for sale. The person I talked to
said they were asking $350 and that included the box, monitor, keyboard, and
mouse. Is this a realistic price, low, or high? I think he said there were
5 available minus what he might want. Anyone interested? Condition is
supposed to be very good and when they were set up, he said something about
they couldn't get the cursor to move.
4:45 p.m.
New subject: Next Computers
Marvin wrote:
I just heard about a few Next computers for sale. The
person I talked to
said they were asking $350 and that included the box, monitor, keyboard, and
mouse. Is this a realistic price, low, or high? I think he said there were
5 available minus what he might want. Anyone interested? Condition is
supposed to be very good and when they were set up, he said something about
they couldn't get the cursor to move.
Hopefully they're within pickup distance as those NeXT stattion monitors alone
weigh a ton.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Blakeman
RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
ICQ # 1714857
* Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
--------------------------------------------------------------------
4:54 p.m.
New subject: Next Computers
On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, Marvin wrote:
I just heard about a few Next computers for sale. The
person I talked to
said they were asking $350 and that included the box, monitor, keyboard, and
mouse. Is this a realistic price, low, or high? I think he said there were
5 available minus what he might want. Anyone interested? Condition is
supposed to be very good and when they were set up, he said something about
they couldn't get the cursor to move.
Next made several models. $350 is way high for the slabs, a bit high for
the mono cubes, and a good deal for the color cubes. The original cube is
probably the interesting one from a collector's standpoint, and they seem
to go for under $300. I've resisted the temptation to get one so far.
The software was more innovative than the hardware, and I believe you can
get NextStep (and GnuStep) for intel boxen.
-- Doug
7:39 p.m.
New subject: Next Computers
On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, Marvin wrote:
As stated it depends on the model, also depends on RAM and HD. If you get
any make sure you get a copy of the OS, preferably on CD. I believe they
will run all versions of the OS through OPENSTEP 4.2 which came out last
summer. Anything newer will basically look like a Mac, the next version
should be publically available in a couple months from what I've heard, and
rumor has it that it might even be affordable. Last I heard a basic
OPENSTEP 4.2 cost about $1500.00, and the Developer setup $5000.00! So if
you just want to play a little an old NeXT system with NeXTstep 3.3 or so
is a great way to do it.
It's a neat OS, and OPENSTEP 4.2 runs nicely on a Pentium 133 (NeXT's are
68k based), but if you're used to UNIX it will probably seem a little
confusing when you try to configure networking.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |
I just heard about a few Next computers for sale.
The person I talked to
said they were asking $350 and that included the box, monitor, keyboard, and
mouse. Is this a realistic price, low, or high? I think he said there were
5 available minus what he might want. Anyone interested? Condition is
supposed to be very good and when they were set up, he said something about
they couldn't get the cursor to move.
Next made several models. $350 is way high for the slabs, a bit high for
the mono cubes, and a good deal for the color cubes. The original cube is
probably the interesting one from a collector's standpoint, and they seem
to go for under $300. I've resisted the temptation to get one so far.
The software was more innovative than the hardware, and I believe you can
get NextStep (and GnuStep) for intel boxen.
9617
days inactive
9622
days old
13 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
engine＠chac.org -
gram＠cnct.com -
healyzh＠ix.netcom.com -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
marvin＠rain.org -
rhblake＠bbtel.com -
rigdonj＠intellistar.net -
yowza＠yowza.com