26 Aug
2001
26 Aug
'01
8:44 a.m.
I found a Tektronix 465 o-scope today for $50 - it's missing probes, and
the owner was going to look for the manual, but I'm wondering if this
would be a good scope for hobby purposes?
The previous owner feels that it probably needs a good cleaning, like some
of the knobs.
Any insights?
- Dan
Dan Linder / dlinder @ uiuc.edu
Graduate Student, College of Engineering, Dept. of Computer Science
- Dept. of Computer Science Teaching Assistant
- DRES Computer Accessibility Researcher
26 Aug
26 Aug
9:52 a.m.
Yes, it's an excellent 'scope, and most of the pot's are sealed so all you
have
to do to get the noise out is work them back and forth a few times. Since
you're geting such a good deal on this thing, do take the time, trouble, and
expense to get the correct probes to go with it, and get three of them. You'll
not regret it.
IIRC, the probe that was shipped with mine when it was new was the TEK P6105's.
It's a 10x 13pf 100 MHz probe with adjustment for compensation. You'll want one
for each channel plus one for the delayed time base or for external triggering.
Aside from the nicety of having a spare or not having to change between
connections, an additional one doesn't really help life much. Trust me on that,
as I have half a dozen of various lengths. Unless you work on rack-mounted
equipment much, probes longer than 2 meters are probably unnecessary, but only
you can decide that. Shorter probes may prove a handicap.
The probes from this set have a number of attachments, and accessories. If you
work on hardware that uses wire-wrapped components, there are probe tips that
are intended for attachment to wirewrap pins that you'll find very useful. I
curse the day I discovered these, because of how helpless I feel whenever I
don't have them if I'm working on wirewrapped equipment. I've numbered them
with cable markers and find them indispensible, since I can put a dozen or more
of them in a circuit and the move the probe tips from labelled point to point.
There'll be other things you discover along the way as well.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Linder" <dlinder(a)uiuc.edu>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 11:44 AM
Subject: Tek 465 as a hobby scope?
I found a Tektronix 465 o-scope today for $50 -
it's missing probes, and
the owner was going to look for the manual, but I'm wondering if this
would be a good scope for hobby purposes?
The previous owner feels that it probably needs a good cleaning, like some
of the knobs.
Any insights?
- Dan
Dan Linder / dlinder @ uiuc.edu
Graduate Student, College of Engineering, Dept. of Computer Science
- Dept. of Computer Science Teaching Assistant
- DRES Computer Accessibility Researcher
1:04 p.m.
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27 Aug
27 Aug
3:26 a.m.
I found a Tektronix 465 o-scope today for $50 - it's missing probes, and
the owner was going to look for the manual, but I'm wondering if this
would be a good scope for hobby purposes?
It's not a 'good' scope, it's an _Excellent_ 'scope.
FWIW, these normally sell for a few hundred pounds/dollars (at least in
the UK), so you did well!
-tony
Tony -- it's probably that he got it from a downsizing company rather than a
reseller that buys them up and marks them up.
I saw the same thing at Concurrent Computer -- but I couldn't get them
to let me get one of the 465's and the resellers marked them up from $50
to $400.
Bill
--
Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a
villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller
bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org
4:52 a.m.
We used them for a while in USAF electronics training and field use too (of
course they had an AN/USM number) before they went to Tek 454 and 453 units.
I miss the 465's but between my Tek 454A analog and my HP 45201D digital
scope I'm pretty well set for most needs. Of course the IEEE-488 on the HP
is nice too.
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
-> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bill Pechter
-> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 7:26 AM
-> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
-> Subject: Re: Tek 465 as a hobby scope?
->
->
-> > >
-> > > I found a Tektronix 465 o-scope today for $50 - it's missing
-> probes, and
-> > > the owner was going to look for the manual, but I'm wondering if this
-> > > would be a good scope for hobby purposes?
-> >
->
-> That's a great field service scope and was the standard at DEC.
-> I'd have killed for one at 3 to 4 times the price.
->
-> >
-> > It's not a 'good' scope, it's an _Excellent_ 'scope.
-> >
-> > FWIW, these normally sell for a few hundred pounds/dollars (at
-> least in
-> > the UK), so you did well!
-> >
-> > -tony
->
-> Tony -- it's probably that he got it from a downsizing company
-> rather than a
-> reseller that buys them up and marks them up.
->
-> I saw the same thing at Concurrent Computer -- but I couldn't get them
-> to let me get one of the 465's and the resellers marked them up from $50
-> to $400.
->
-> Bill
-> --
-> Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a
-> villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller
-> bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org
->
8:55 a.m.
On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Bill Pechter wrote:
That's a great field service scope and was the
standard at DEC.
I'd have killed for one at 3 to 4 times the price.
Alas - I lost out on it. The Fates decided it should not be so.
For the future, what are some good scopes (sort of in the Tek 465
quality/feature range)?
This results from me not taking money to a HAMfest - trying to curb my
spending, since i never find anything great - until the scope that I lost
out on.
Ah well...
- Dan
Dan Linder / dlinder @ uiuc.edu
Graduate Student, College of Engineering, Dept. of Computer Science
- Dept. of Computer Science Teaching Assistant
- DRES Computer Accessibility Researcher
9:25 a.m.
On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Bill Pechter wrote:
I know my Tek TDS-220 is the recommended replacement for a Tek 465B. I
bought it new when I needed a scope a couple years ago, and love it. It's
much easier to use than a 465B if you don't know what you're doing, and
it's nice and SMALL (and light), which for me is a big plus!
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
That's a great field service scope and was
the standard at DEC.
I'd have killed for one at 3 to 4 times the price.
Alas - I lost out on it. The Fates decided it should not be so.
For the future, what are some good scopes (sort of in the Tek 465
quality/feature range)?
11:08 a.m.
Too bad! Keep in mind that there's a WORLD of difference between 465's.
There's a reall, Really, REALLY big difference in the trigger circuit between
the old 465 and 465A, (the latter supposedly exist, but I've never seen one) and
the '465B and later. Apparently, the TEK folks decided there was no point in
putting the more sensitive, accurate, and costly trigger circuit in 'scopes that
competed with HP models that weren't as sensitive and accurate, yet sold about
as well, so they switched to a cheaper circuit that was "just about as good as"
the HP models that were competitive with the 465B. These were most often used
for working on TV/studio equipment, and the increased of their use in that arena
motivated some feature changes that apparently warranted the compromise in the
triggering seinsitivity and accuracy. The 'B' version still triggers as well as
the comparable HP types.
Since this was a HamFest, I'd say you may not have lost as much as you may
think. (This is my opinion, based on my limited and very disappointing
experience with HamFests, which I no longer patronize, so ... consider at your
own risk.) The 465 is probably the most popular solid state instrument of its
type that TEK ever produced. If you include the wide use of the military
version, it's probably also the most widely used throughout the industry. It
was not the fastest or most sensitive version in its series, but, at 100 MHz
bandwidth, and with 5 mV sensitivity, it was sensitive enough for most analog
work and fast enough for even veru fast digital circuitry up through the
mid-80's.
If someone at a HamFest wanted only $50 for a '465, it's likely there were
problems not apparent to the casual onlooker. These would probably be quite
fixable, but most folks don't want a "fixer-upper," they want an
instrument
they can use. I've seen lots of these things sell for over $400 within the last
couple or three years. I'm suspicious any time such a bargain appears in an
environment where purportedly knowledgable people shop. If there are no
cosmetic flaws that justify the reduced price, it would certainly give me pause.
That's not to say you can't find a bargain, but I think it's a little much to
hope to find a typically >$250 (regardless of condition so long as it's not
dead) instrument, probably the most popular of its kind, for under $100, in a
marketplace frequented by those who'd covet such a thing.
I, BTW, would happily buy (locally) a 455/465/475 external case, so long as the
handle and support components are intact. My '465 has had the handle removed
since back in the '80's, as my then 15-month-old son, with an inadvertent kick,
pushed the instrument out of my car from his car-seat, fracturing one of the
plastic parts. I've used it on the bench, and have my '475A on the scope cart.
It wasn't crucial at the time, but I now want the thing to work as a portable
again ... <sigh> ... and I'm tired of being pissed at my now 21-year-old son.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Linder" <dlinder(a)uiuc.edu>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: Tek 465 as a hobby scope?
On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Bill Pechter wrote:
That's a great field service scope and was
the standard at DEC.
I'd have killed for one at 3 to 4 times the price.
Alas - I lost out on it. The Fates decided it should not be so.
For the future, what are some good scopes (sort of in the Tek 465
quality/feature range)?
This results from me not taking money to a HAMfest - trying to curb my
spending, since i never find anything great - until the scope that I lost
out on.
Ah well...
- Dan
Dan Linder / dlinder @ uiuc.edu
Graduate Student, College of Engineering, Dept. of Computer Science
- Dept. of Computer Science Teaching Assistant
- DRES Computer Accessibility Researcher
11:21 a.m.
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1:20 p.m.
You're right on the money, Tony. If I find something at much lower than market
price, I assume it needs help of some sort.
The Laser printers I bought over the past month were bought because they had
enough toner in the cartridges to warrant the price. The rest is gravy.
If I want a fixer-upper, a HamFest is a perfect place. If I want a "hobby
'scope" it's not likely I want to fix it. I want to use it. If I want a
second
one, I may feel differently, but for the first one, especially for someone who
has no other test gear, I'd say a $50 '465 might not be the good deal it would
be for someone already set up to repair test gear. First of all, one has to
know how the stuff works, and, secondly, one has to be of a mind to fix the
thing.
I've had my 'scope apart at times, but not because I LIKE fixing problems in my
tools.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Duell" <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: Tek 465 as a hobby scope?
> Since this was a HamFest, I'd say you may not
have lost as much as you may
> think. (This is my opinion, based on my limited and very disappointing
> experience with HamFests, which I no longer patronize, so ... consider at
your
This is the exact opposite of my experience at radio rallies (which is
what we call hamfests over here). I have never been disapointed with
anything I've bought at a radio rally.
I have a couple of rules I follow at such events :
Never buy anything if it might be worth a lot less than you paid for
it. For example, I never buy chips at hamfests no matter how attractive
the price looks because if they are defective I know I can't repair them
so I've lost my money. But I would buy an old HP instrument for \pounds
10.00 (even though it's almost certainly faulty at that price) because I
can see at least \pounds 10.00 worth of knobs, case parts, connectors,
etc. The insides are going to be worth something as well. And most likely
the repair is going to be simple (this is how I ended up with an old, but
good, HP counter with plug-ins covering DC to 3GHz for very little money [1])
Even with the above rule, never buy anything unless you can afford to
lose the money. It's unlikely you will, but...
[1] All it needed was new smoothing capacitors in the PSU...
[...]
If someone at a HamFest wanted only $50 for a
'465, it's likely there were
problems not apparent to the casual onlooker. These would probably be quite
fixable, but most folks don't want a "fixer-upper," they want an
instrument
I regard all things I buy at rallies as 'fixer-uppers'. I expect it. I've
never much money for a single item at a rally, so I don't expect them to
work (often though I am pleasantly suprised by what I get -- faults are
often quite simple).
To be honest, I'd rather have a 'fixer-upper' that was once a first-class
instrument (like a Tek 'scope) than a more recent hobbyist-grade unit
bought new and working. I'll spend a few days/weeks/months fixing it up
(time spent on hobbies is free, after all ;-)) and in the end I'll have
something that I could never have afforded any other way. And it'll be
pleasant to use, unlike some more recent stuff.
In general, the more obscure an item, the more likely it is to be working
if sold cheaply at a rally.
A good 'scope will not be priced that cheaply in general because just
about everyone at a rally knows what a 'scope is, and wants one. And they
know the good makes (like Tek and HP). So a cheap Tek 'scope is likely to
need work
But something like an in-circuit emulator, or a programmer for some odd
chip family, or an obscure classic computer could well be very cheap,
even when working. Because almost nobody wants this sort of stuff (unless
they're into old computers, I guess :-)) I've picked up a Z80 ICE unit, a
logic analyser designed to connect to common 8 bit processors (6800, Z80,
6502 and 6809 IIRC), a PIC 17C4x programmer board (complete with a couple
of chips and all the manuals), and a Xerox D-machine for \pounds 10 or
less each. All apart from the D-machine were in perfect working order,
the last was missing the keyboard, but at that price...
-tony
8361
days inactive
8362
days old
9 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
dlinder＠uiuc.edu -
edick＠idcomm.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
pechter＠bg-tc-ppp734.monmouth.com -
rhblakeman＠kih.net