27 Oct
1998
27 Oct
'98
11:38 p.m.
I don't know what the law is in the UK regarding
dustbins (trashcans) but
regarding skips (dumpsters) it is something like:
Person X makes a contract with a waste disposal
contractor Y. Y delivers a
skip to X's premises, and probably leaves it in the road (at precisely the
worst place for motorists trying to get around it :-) ). X throws stuff
into the skip, but it remains X's property, and to pull it out is theft.
Eventually X has thrown in all he wants and phones up Y to collect the
skip. When Y does, the stuff in the skip becomes Y's property.
Almost same for Germany, although the point of changing
ownership is depending on the contract. In most cases
the ownership changes when the item ist dumped, althrough
no court will rule agains a dumping person when the item
is taken back. The same is true for any public trashcan/
dustbin. As soon as it is droped it belongs to the owner
of the dustbin.
At work, I used to skip-dive a lot. I was once told
that I was breaking
the law because I had removed a Superbrain from the skip.
Lucky one!
However, skip-diving is now officially banned. I
have been quite strongly warned off several times, once for just looking at
the skip! The warnings came from quite high up, passed down through my
boss.
Seams to be an attitude of all management - bann whatever
you don't understand.
Gruss
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
28 Oct
28 Oct
9:10 a.m.
On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Hans Franke wrote:
I think the attitude of many companies in the UK is "if we wanted to give
it away we would do so, once we have decided to throw it away it stays
thrown away".
As far as the legal position is concerned I am aware of sucessful
prosecutions for theft from piles of rubbish left by the kerb for
collection by the dustmen and also for skip diving in the skips outside a
local authority tip. In both cases the theft was said to have been from
the local authority as they own the rubbish once its owner has thrown it
out.
I think with the modern ideas about environmentally friendly disposal of
waste it would be appropriate for the local authorities to turn a blind
eye to 'scavengers' like ourselves and thus reduce the amount of useful
stuff which ends up in landfill ;-)
Regards
Pete
However,
skip-diving is now officially banned I
have been quite strongly warned off several times, once for just looking at
the skip! The warnings came from quite high up, passed down through my
boss.
Seams to be an attitude of all management - bann whatever
you don't undestand 
9:36 a.m.
On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Pete Joules wrote:
Let me add a little perspective to this.
Say you ran a company, and being a good collector and occasional dumpster
diver, you had a policy that anything broken could be taken home by
employees if the company decided they didn't want to fix it. So the
hacker employees are happy because they get some nice stuff they can fix
and use in their spare time. But what happens when employees start
intentionally breaking things, or worse, pulling small parts out of
equipment to make it look broke, so they can then take it home and replace
the missing fuse or chip? I think that is why you have the rather
seemingly unreasonable policies about discard equipment.
Seams to be an
attitude of all management - bann whatever
you don't undestand
I think the attitude of many companies in the UK is "if we wanted to give
it away we would do so, once we have decided to throw it away it stays
thrown away". I think with the modern ideas about environmentally
friendly disposal of
waste it would be appropriate for the local authorities to turn a blind
eye to 'scavengers' like ourselves and thus reduce the amount of useful
stuff which ends up in landfill ;-)
Until one loathesome scavenger cuts a finger off on some particularly
sharp piece of metal and sues the owner, the trash company, the maker of
the trash container for not making it so they could get inside in the
first place, etc. (at least in the U.S.)
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
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1:08 p.m.
I think the attitude of many companies in the UK is
"if we wanted to give
it away we would do so, once we have decided to throw it away it stays
thrown away".
The problem, of course, is that dumpster-drivers and the company may disagree
about what should be given to employees, thrown away, sold, scrapped, kept,
or whatever.
I think the trick is to find a company that strikes a balance between its own
interests and the interests of hackers. (No, I don't have any suggestions.)
Providing a channel so hackers can say, "Gee, this is neat, I'd like it!"
is
a worthy thing. Having employees "break" stuff so they can get it is not a
worthy thing.
Someone (Sam?) mentioned this self-destruction ploy in another message,
so it's not my idea. Obviously if this happens the company either needs
better communication between those in power and the hacker employees, or new
hacker employees.
-- Derek
11:17 p.m.
On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, D. Peschel wrote:
I think the trick is to find a company that strikes a
balance between
its own interests and the interests of hackers. (No, I don't have any
suggestions.)
Providing a channel so hackers can say, "Gee, this is neat, I'd like it!"
is a worthy thing. Having employees "break" stuff so they can get it is
not a worthy thing.
When I worked for Western Electric in the mid-70's they had suffered from
above to such an extent that ALL trash was crushed and compacted. So I
stood spell bound in anger and watched as 11 PDP-8's where systematically
disassembled and crushed.
It was a very sad day....
BC
9512
days inactive
9513
days old
4 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
danjo＠xnet.com -
dastar＠ncal.verio.com -
dpeschel＠u.washington.edu -
franke＠sbs.de -
pjoules＠joules.enterprise-plc.com