22 Dec
2008
22 Dec
'08
6:22 p.m.
Hi,
Ist definitely a RS422 interface, and ist the 4-wire version. You have two
lines for sending data (Tx+, Tx-) and two lines for receiving serial data
(Rx+, Rx-). Its a +-5V differentially signalling technique to get high speed
on long lines and archive better noise immunity.
With best regards
Gerhard
-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] Im
Auftrag von cctalk-request at classiccmp.org
Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. Dezember 2008 19:01
An: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Betreff: cctalk Digest, Vol 64, Issue 52
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: PDP-8 on FPGA project & where is Hans Pufal? (Pete Turnbull)
2. Re: PDP-8 on FPGA project & where is Hans Pufal? (Tony Duell)
3. Re: Timekeeping (was Re: Sherwood Micro CPU/100) (Tony Duell)
4. Re: Timekeeping (was Re: Sherwood Micro CPU/100) (Tony Duell)
5. New USB Mod Ms available from Unicomp? was Re: USB Model M
(Paxton Hoag)
6. CBM 8000 VideoCD? (Ethan Dicks)
7. list of nordisk data books and floppy disks (Bert Thomas)
8. Re: Engelbart's mouse / 40th anniversary (Andrew Burton)
9. oregon software tape (Al Kossow)
10. Re: 8008 chips (Andrew Burton)
11. any idea what this schematic is? (Ray Arachelian)
12. RE: oregon software tape (Ian King)
13. MS WinWord 6.0 32-bit (Liam Proven)
14. Re: PDP-8 on FPGA project (Philipp Hachtmann)
15. Re: any idea what this schematic is? (Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ)
16. RE: any idea what this schematic is? (dwight elvey)
17. Re: any idea what this schematic is? (Ethan Dicks)
18. Re: Rockwell PPS-4 info (was 8008 v. 4004...) (John Robertson)
19. Re: Rockwell PPS-4 info (was 8008 v. 4004...) (Chris Elmquist)
20. Re: USB Model M (G?ran Axelsson)
21. FDOS for Fluke 1720A (Jim Temple)
22. Re: any idea what this schematic is? (Ethan Dicks)
23. Re: Engelbart's mouse / 40th anniversary (Lyle Bickley)
24. Re: any idea what this schematic is? (Alexandre Souza)
25. Re: any idea what this schematic is? (r.stricklin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 17:55:58 +0000
From: Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.plus.com>
Subject: Re: PDP-8 on FPGA project & where is Hans Pufal?
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <494D31AE.8010306 at dunnington.plus.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On 19/12/2008 15:53, der Mouse wrote:
They're not quite the same thing, though a D-type flip-flop is a kind of
latch. There are other types of flip-flops, such as T, RS, and JK types,
usually edge-triggered. In a D-type, the active clock edge causes the
output to change to match the input, and having changed, it stays that way,
even if the input changes while the clock is still at the same level.
The transparent latches that are commonly just referred to as "latches"
(eg in data books, where you'll find some devices referred to as latches and
others as flip-flops to distinguish them) are level-sensitive, and the
output tracks the input (including changes) while the clock is at its active
level.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:10:04 +0000 (GMT)
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Subject: Re: PDP-8 on FPGA project & where is Hans Pufal?
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Message-ID: <m1LE6H9-000IxyC at p850ug1>
Content-Type: text/plain
As I understand the terms, a D-type flip-flop is edge-triggered, a latch (or
more exactly a transparent latch) is level-operated.
What I eman is that for a D-type flip-flop, the output (Q) is set equal to
the input (D) a short time after the rising edge (say), of the clock signal.
At all othter times Q does not change state, no matter what D does. So if
clock is held high all the time, or held low all the time, Q will never
change.
But with a transparent latch, then if the clock (sometimes called the enable
input) is in one sate (say high). then the output (Q) tracks the input (D).
When the clock input goes low, then Q is held in whatever state it was in as
the clock input went low.
A simple example of the differnce. If you take a D-type flip-flop and
connect the output to a NOT gate and the output of that back to the D input,
then you get a divide-by-2-circuit. Feed in a regular clock at one frequency
and the Q output will toggle at half that frequency. But if you do the same
thing with a transparent latch, you get something that oscillates at a
frequency determined by the propagation delays when the clock is high. In
other words the output is somewhat unpredicatable, it's certainly not a
square wave at half the frequency of the clock signal.
-tony
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:12:55 +0000 (GMT)
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Subject: Re: Timekeeping (was Re: Sherwood Micro CPU/100)
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Message-ID: <m1LE6Jt-000J12C at p850ug1>
Content-Type: text/plain
What you say is true for FPGA-internal signals but the output drivers
_can_ be switched to high-impedance.
The open-collector driver you were asking about originally can be
emulated by assigning "Z" directly to the IOB, switching it to high-z.
That will only work if the signal you use is routed directly to the IOB
=> use only in top level entity to be sure. Yes, of course... IOBs can also be
controlled "manually" using the output
enable...
The discussion was about the on-chip (!!) wiring of the OMNIBUS. the
original OMNIBUS is an
open collector thing.
Ph :-)
--
http://www.hachti.de
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 06:00:30 +0000
From: Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ <gordonjcp at gjcp.net>
Subject: Re: any idea what this schematic is?
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <494DDB7E.8070901 at gjcp.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Ray Arachelian wrote:
It's a serial port.
_________________________________________________________________
Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_speed_12
2008
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 01:53:00 -0500
From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: any idea what this schematic is?
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID:
<f4eb766f0812202253w17bc738ax5777071e99444f6b at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 1:42 AM, dwight elvey <dkelvey at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi
> Looks like RS422 interface.
>
>> From: ray at arachelian.com
>>
>>>
This one you would have wanted to. Imagine a pale grey colored ring
about 10" dia with 3" dia hole in the middle. Wasn't a browned bit of
meat on it and not enough ketchup in the world to make it go down. I
think we learned then that a microwave is not for "browning".
--
Chris Elmquist
mailto:chrise at pobox.com
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 00:29:42 +0100
From: G?ran Axelsson <axelsson at acc.umu.se>
Subject: Re: USB Model M
To: General at acc.umu.se, "Discussion at acc.umu.se":On-Topic Posts Only
<cctech at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <494D7FE6.1090008 at acc.umu.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed
Alexandre Souza wrote:
I have just finished a project with a PIC32 (MIPS32 core) working as a
voice codec and talking to a linux PC over the USB buss. We got it up to
310 kBytes/s and not dropping a single package during hours of running.
The communication on the PIC side is solved by constantly polling the
USB bus to catch every event.
We had problems with package dropped every ten seconds or so but we
traced it back to a iproute cache flush that the kernel was doing.
The USB bus is fast but with standard hardware it isn't hard to get the
speed up. If you have problem with overruns, check if the PC is doing
some periodic maintainancy or there are any other devices using the bus.
Sorry for being a bit OT but just to add a bit of nostalgia to my post,
my next hobby project will be a transputer link to USB interface.
:-)
/Gvran
------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:15:15 -0500
From: "Jim Temple" <jetemp at insightbb.com>
Subject: FDOS for Fluke 1720A
To: <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <000301c96322$ba111790$2e3346b0$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello,
Saw your post and thought I would ask about the software and manuals for the
Fluke 1722A controller. Do you still have them? Did you get them to
Bitsavers?
I'm interested in obtaining the above software.
Sincerely,
Jim Temple
Louisville, KY.
------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 02:00:47 -0500
From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: any idea what this schematic is?
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID:
<f4eb766f0812202300p2d920340t1bc9334693265968 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 1:00 AM, Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ
<gordonjcp at gjcp.net> wrote:
> Ray Arachelian wrote:
>>
>>
> It's a serial port.
Yep.
Your code
above does not result in latches. It results in D type
flipflops!
What's the difference? As I've learned to use the words, D-flops
_are_ latches. Have I mislearnt? Your code
above does not result in latches. It results in D type
flipflops!
What's the difference? As I've learned to use the words, D-flops
_are_ latches. Have I mislearnt? Hi
You should also consider building a free pendulum clock reference.
If I ever get a supply of circular tuits, then that's something I have long
considered making... Even a single-pendulum (non-free) synchronome would be
a fun thing to build
I've considered adding one to my grandfather
clock.
These were used as references until the quartz oven references
replaced them.
I am told that a free paenddulum in a vacuum chamber (to remove the errors
due to air resistance, often called 'barometric errors', since the air
resistance depends on the barometric pressure) actually has a better
long-term stability than most quartz crystals.
-tony
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:16:07 +0000 (GMT)
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Subject: Re: Timekeeping (was Re: Sherwood Micro CPU/100)
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Message-ID: <m1LE6N0-000J1gC at p850ug1>
Content-Type: text/plain
One can calculate the angles if you first draw a line
for local noon
and use the following equation to calculate each hour line from that
noon line.
=20
X = hour lines angle ( each hour is 15 degrees ) Y = 90 - Latitude
angle
Called the 'Colatitude' in some books.
Z = Angle on plate that is level to the ground from
noon line
arctan( tan(X) / cos ( Y ) ) = Z
At least I think I did the trig right.=20
I beleive that is correct, However, it gets more complicated if you want to
have a vertical-ish dial plate (say on a wall) that is neither truely
vertical (it 'reclines') and which doesn't face any of the cardinal compass
directions (it 'declines').
-tony
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 13:10:33 -0800
From: "Paxton Hoag" <innfoclassics at gmail.com>
Subject: New USB Mod Ms available from Unicomp? was Re: USB Model M
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID:
<ded268c40812201310p460cd9c8v494ffd0e2de9cd9b at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Thanks for the link as I need some cables too. I bought a dozen Model Ms
from a local community college garage sale. They were
complaining about how
much noise they made. At 50 cents apiece I bought all they
had.
I noticed that Unicomp, the site mentioned above sells new Buckling Key
keyboards With USB built in for $69.
http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/cus101usenon.html
These are the people that bought the Keyboard parts business from IBM.
It looks like they are trying to keep the model M and continue to supply the
market.
Paxton
--
Paxton Hoag
Astoria, OR
USA
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 17:48:18 -0500
From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com>
Subject: CBM 8000 VideoCD?
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID:
<f4eb766f0812201448k53b19a99g664320f673290d44 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi, all,
I was bouncing around looking for SuperPET info and ran across this
page (again)...
<http://members.tripod.com/~petlibrary/vcdpage.htm>
Unfortunately, the address on the page is no longer active, so it's
not possible to request a copy of the video. Did anyone on the list
ever get this?
-ethan
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 00:12:18 +0100
From: Bert Thomas <bert at brothom.nl>
Subject: list of nordisk data books and floppy disks
To: General at lekkervaren.nl, "Discussion at lekkervaren.nl":On-Topic and
Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <494D7BD2.3000108 at brothom.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
If you need access to one of these, contact me an urge me to make a
deal. Keep pushing, as pushing raises priority with me.
Books:
NOTIS-BG User Guide
NOTIS-RG New functions in the E-version
NOTIS-DS User's guide
Introduction to ND Office Systems
The SPRINT User Guide
Documentation Catalogue
SINTRAN III Real Time Loader
Dialogue-UNIQUE-II User Guide
Operator Environment User Guide
NOTIS-WP Brief Introduction
User Environment Reference Manual
NOTIS-WP Reference Manual
COSMOS User Guide
User Environment Reference Manual
SINTRAN III Utilities Manual (3x)
ND-110 Instruction Set
The Database System SIBAS II ND User Manual
SIBAS II Operator Manual
NOTIS-DS Introduction (2x)
Sintran III Real Time Guide
NOTIS-DS Supervisor Guide (2x)
ACCESS User Guide
File Manager Introduction (2x, one in shrink-wrap)
NOMIS Norwegian Medical Information System
SINTRAN III COMMANDS Reference Manual
SINTRAN III Monitor Calls (2x)
Symbolic Debugger User Guide
Examples for NOTIS-RG Version B
SINTRAN-III Release Information K-version
NOTIS-TF Macro Guide (new in shrink wrap)
BACKUP User Guide (3x)
SINTRAN III System Supervisor
Operator Environment User Guide
ND-110 COMPACT Operator Guide (contains several quick reference cards)
SINTRAN III User Guide
BRF-Linker User Manual
NOTIS-TF User Guide
User Environment Library Routines
NOTIS-RG Reference Manual
Test Program Description for ND-100/ND-110
ordner with following description:
course program
the supervisor's responsibility
Handbook of Useful information
examples of LOAD-MODE etc.
telefix customer information
miscellaneous materials
MEDITEBS (in dutch)
bunch of unknown listings
a document with information on SCSI on ND
ACCESS DBA manual
NOTIS-TF text formatter reference manual
partly dutch presentation with general user info
SINTRAN III Timesharing/Batch guide
some dutch documentation on MEDITEBS
datasheets of several ND products, such as software packages, computers
and accessoiries
Floppies:
(each floppy or set of floppies contains a few pages of information)
SINTRAN III K GENERATION 312 CONF.D VSX, 2 disks (2 sets)
PATCH-SIN-K-5400 (2 sets)
SINTRAN III Configuration Program
SUBSYSTEM PACKAGE 32 BITS FLOATING FORMAT
SINTRAN III VSE/VSX Utility Programs
ACCOUNTING System for SINTRAN III
BACKUP-SYSTEM
X-MESSAGE
TELEFIX FILES FOR USER SITES
SUBSYSTEM PACKAGE II
VTM terminal tables
USER ENVIRONMENT (3 disks)
TEST PROGRAMS FOR ND-100/110
TEST PROGRAMS FOR ND-100/110/120 (2 disks)
JEC job execution control
ND-10634A MEMORY TO FLOPPY
NOTIS-WP FOR ND-100 (4 disks)
SIBAS-II for ND-100 (2 disks with pretty much the same label)
ACCESS FOR ND-100 (dito)
NOTIS-RG for ND-100 norwegian
NOTIS-DS for ND-100 (3 disks)
NOTIS-DS for ND-100 48-bit floating point (3 disks with pretty much the
same label)
NOTIS-BG-for ND-100 norwegian version 32 bits fl
NOTIS-BG-for ND-100 32 bits fl
NOTIS-BG-for ND-100 (business grafics) 32 bits fl
PR for ND-100 (Norwegian version)
BRF-Linker for ND-100
SINTRAN III MONITOR CALL Pack.
SPRINT Spooling System (3 disks)
MEDITEBS specials
Mass Storage Utilities
OPERATOR ENVIRONMENT (4 disks)
Disk Restore (3 disks)
TESTPROGRAMS FOR ND-100/110/120 (2 disks, both labeled PART 1 OF 2)
UNIQUE-II SIBAS for ND-100
UNIQUE TEXT SYSTEM
UNIQUE-II SIBAS ND-100 (hand-written label)
SOFTWARE KEY DISCETTE
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:22:17 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Burton <aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Engelbart's mouse / 40th anniversary
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <567206.77758.qm at web23406.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Thanks for the photo's. That must have been an interesting event.
Regards,
Andrew B
aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
--- On Sun, 14/12/08, Marcin Wichary <mwichary at gmail.com> wrote:
From: Marcin Wichary <mwichary at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Engelbart's mouse / 40th anniversary
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Date: Sunday, 14 December, 2008, 9:24 PM
Here are my photos from the event, for those interested:
http://flickriver.com/photos/mwichary/sets/72157610918709769/
(48 photos in total. Scroll down to see more.)
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 16:15:00 -0800
From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org>
Subject: oregon software tape
To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org
Message-ID: <494D8A84.8080002 at bitsavers.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
did anyone on the list buy this tape?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120348714966
I got the earlier version, and it is a source tape. I'm trying to
find out if the other one was as well.
fscking eBay now hides the buyer's ID.
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 02:17:52 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Burton <aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: 8008 chips
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <346678.75570.qm at web23407.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Awesome pictures. It's seriously impressive how these chips must be made and
designed.
Regards,
Andrew B
aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
--- On Tue, 16/12/08, William Blair <wbblair3 at yahoo.com> wrote:
They are relatively rare, but they aren't even close to being _THAT_ rare.
I'm talking about his asking price. I bought one three years ago from a
fellow collector of CPU chips for _$20_ that had some markings worn off and
was
scratched. I opened it up to photograph the die (a hobby of mine):
http://diephotos.blogspot.com/
I've haven't even seen rare versions of white ceramic 4004 ICs in
perfect condition go for anything close to his asking price. I've seen a
complete, mint condition MCS-4 (4004) chip _SET_ go for something close to
$1K.
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 22:01:22 -0500
From: Ray Arachelian <ray at arachelian.com>
Subject: any idea what this schematic is?
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <494DB182.1050106 at arachelian.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
http://flickr.com/photos/spaceageboy/3117272956/sizes/o/
Would this be the interface between the Lisa and the Mac as related here:
http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Shut_Up.txt&am…
er=Sort%20by%20Date&detail=medium&search=shut%20up
Unfortunately, there was one small snag. We were using
the Lisa as the
development machine for writing the software for Macintosh, and we
hadn't yet reached the point where the Macintosh could run
stand-alone. The Macintosh needed to be hooked up to a Lisa, in order
to download software from it. But the Lisa group was writing all of
its own applications for Lisa and didn't want Microsoft to see a Lisa.
They made us promise that we wouldn't let Microsoft see the Lisa.
We finally came up with a solution where we'd use a twenty-five foot
cable and keep the Lisa in a different room that the Microsoft guys
weren't allowed to enter. I would start up the programs on the Lisa in
the other room, and Bud Tribble would operate the Macintosh. I would
usually run into the main room to see their reaction.
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:24:43 -0800
From: Ian King <IanK at vulcan.com>
Subject: RE: oregon software tape
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <FF6AB92D97A23A409701CDBF66F03FCD2A56ED9D at 505fuji>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
eBay's greed will destroy its empire. At least, it's always worked that way
before....
________________________________________
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On
Behalf Of Al Kossow [aek at bitsavers.org]
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:15 PM
To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org
Subject: oregon software tape
did anyone on the list buy this tape?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120348714966
I got the earlier version, and it is a source tape. I'm trying to
find out if the other one was as well.
fscking eBay now hides the buyer's ID.
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 04:33:35 +0000
From: "Liam Proven" <lproven at gmail.com>
Subject: MS WinWord 6.0 32-bit
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID:
<575131af0812202033o14e4e811r2071a9316e71d48f at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252
This is somewhat off-topic for here, but I don't know where else to ask.
Way back in the early days of 32-bit Windows - I know, 5min ago by
local standards - MS did a 32-bit version of Word and Excel for users
of MS Office 4 on Windows NT 3. I used to have copies - on floppy -
but I've lost them. No idea where to get replacements now, but I would
really like to be able to use Word 6/32 again. It was a great WP, and
by modern standards, tiny and very fast.
Anyone still have a copy, or can suggest where to look or ask?
--
Liam Proven Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 Cell: +44 7939-087884 Fax: + 44 870-9151419
AOL/AIM/iChat: liamproven at aol.com MSN/Messenger: lproven at hotmail.com
Yahoo: liamproven at yahoo.co.uk Skype: liamproven ICQ: 73187508
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 05:43:55 +0100
From: Philipp Hachtmann <hachti at hachti.de>
Subject: Re: PDP-8 on FPGA project
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <494DC98B.2070108 at hachti.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hi,
You can emulate that in std_logic with a single driver
driving an "H"
(the "pull-up"), and everyone else drives either "0" or
"Z".
Yes. You can write that. But the synthesis tool - if it eats that -
will generate
many ORs... So avoid it. In the company I have worked a bit for, MANY
constructs
were simply forbidden. Thinks like Z, H, L in std_logic are suspicious
:-) Would this be the interface between the Lisa and the
Mac as related here:
http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Shut_Up.txt&am…
er=Sort%20by%20Date&detail=medium&search=shut%20up
Hmm, the 1981 date suggests that it would a bit early for the Mac, and
the layout of the PCB suggests an Apple II card...
Gordon
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 22:42:28 -0800
From: dwight elvey <dkelvey at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: any idea what this schematic is?
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
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Hi
Looks like RS422 interface.
Dwight
----------------------------------------
> Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 22:01:22 -0500
> From: ray at arachelian.com
> To:
> Subject: any idea what this schematic is?
>
>
> Would this be the interface between the Lisa and the Mac as related here:
>
>
http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Shut_Up.txt&am…
er=Sort%20by%20Date&detail=medium&search=shut%20up
Unfortunately, there was one small snag. We were
using the Lisa as the
development machine for writing the software for Macintosh, and we
hadn't yet reached the point where the Macintosh could run
stand-alone. The Macintosh needed to be hooked up to a Lisa, in order
to download software from it. But the Lisa group was writing all of
its own applications for Lisa and didn't want Microsoft to see a Lisa.
They made us promise that we wouldn't let Microsoft see the Lisa.
We finally came up with a solution where we'd use a twenty-five foot
cable and keep the Lisa in a different room that the Microsoft guys
weren't allowed to enter. I would start up the programs on the Lisa in
the other room, and Bud Tribble would operate the Macintosh. I would
usually run into the main room to see their reaction.
> Would this be the interface between the Lisa and
the Mac as related here:
>
>>
<http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Shut_Up.txt&sortOr
der=Sort%20by%20Date&detail=medium&search=shut%20up>
I don't know what the bus in the Lisa looks like, but the interface
end, the bit that Dwight identifies as an "RS422 interface" will hook
right up to a Mac (but I'd have to check to see if their DE-9 pinout
matches the DE-9 serial pinout of the 128K/512K Mac board). The
"Lisa-Mac Interface Card" legend at the top certainly suggests that
it's a schematic for the card from the story. The circuit appears to
be what one would need to add a Mac-compatible serial port to _some_
machine.
-ethan
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 09:43:24 -0800
From: John Robertson <jrr at flippers.com>
Subject: Re: Rockwell PPS-4 info (was 8008 v. 4004...)
To: General at invalid.domain, "Discussion at invalid.domain":On-Topic Posts
Only <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <494D2EBC.6080609 at flippers.com>
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Tim McNerney wrote:
Thanks for the lead on the Rockwell PPS-4.
Does anyone know where I can find architectural info on it,
and/or a die photo? It seems to be quite rare, and there
is almost no information about this chip [family] on the web.
--Tim
I have information in PDF format for the PPS-4 as used in Gottlieb and
Recel Pinball games in the 70s. This covers the CPU, PIA and Keyboard
chips. No architectural or die photos though.
John :-#)#
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 12:54:18 -0600
From: Chris Elmquist <chrise at pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Rockwell PPS-4 info (was 8008 v. 4004...)
To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <20081220185418.GH31448 at n0jcf.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Saturday (12/20/2008 at 08:48AM -0700), bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca wrote:
Chris Elmquist wrote:
> Sorry, I got the year wrong. It was approx 1978. Less cool then but
still
not bad.
Meatloaf was still bad.
Umm you don't wait several years to eat Meatloaf. I have a small
uC device that I made that uses an FTDI USB->TTL
converter. I wish USB was as straight-forward as you describe. I'm
currently running into problems when transferring, very quickly, some
data from the uC to the PC. The problems are related to overrunning
the PC, where the PC isn't scheduling reads from the device fast
enough to prevent drops. At least interrupt-based I/O can "demand"
attention from the cpu at any time, where USB is at the mercy of
being scheduled.
I do that at 921kbps and had no issues. > Would this be the interface between the Lisa and
the Mac as related here:
>
<http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Shut_Up.txt&sortOr
der=Sort%20by%20Date&detail=medium&search=shut%20up>
Hmm, the 1981 date suggests that it would a bit early for the Mac...
Not sure about the date, but that's only two-ish years before I seem
to recall seeing an article about the Mac in "Byte" (1983).
...and the layout of the PCB suggests an Apple II
card...
I completely disagree. The location of the power and ground pins on
the schematic are where the Apple II has the address and data buses
(plus +12V, on the wrong pin for the schematic). Additionally, the
signal names /VMA, /VPA, and E are usual names for MC68000 buses (or
perhaps the 6809), not the 6502. Plus, suggestively, but not
conclusively, the card form factor doesn't look to me to be something
for the Apple II (the card is too tall compared to the width the
fingers are drawn at).
I'm reasonably certain that A) it's not an Apple II card, and B) it's
a card for some 50-pin-bus 68000 machine. It might as well be the
Lisa as anything else, but that could be confirmed by cross
referencing the listed bus pins with Lisa documentation.
-ethan
------------------------------
Message: 23
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:16:11 -0800
From: Lyle Bickley <lbickley at bickleywest.com>
Subject: Re: Engelbart's mouse / 40th anniversary
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org>,
"Marcin Wichary" <mwichary at gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200812202316.11632.lbickley at bickleywest.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Marcin,
On Sunday 14 December 2008, Marcin Wichary wrote:
Here are my photos from the event, for those
interested:
http://flickriver.com/photos/mwichary/sets/72157610918709769/
(48 photos in total. Scroll down to see more.)
Great photos! Thanks for posting them...
Cheers,
Lyle
--
Lyle Bickley
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
http://bickleywest.com
"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"
------------------------------
Message: 24
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 05:46:51 -0200
From: "Alexandre Souza" <alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br>
Subject: Re: any idea what this schematic is?
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <126b01c96340$757f8d00$46fea8c0 at DeskJara>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
>
I don't know which computer was used but:
- It is a serial card
- It has a 50-pin card edge connector (Lisa, maybe?)
- It has RS-422 line drivers (so, it seems to be connected to a
Macintosh)
- It is NOT an apple // card, although having 50-pin card edge connector
(I tried to reverse the pinout but got also no good result)
- It is NOT an apple //e expansion card, that one you put on the
80-column slot. Even reversing the pinout
So, it is probable it is used in a Lisa or a Macintosh XL (same
machine?)
Greetings from Brazil
Alexandre Souza, PU1BZZ
------------------------------
Message: 25
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 00:51:44 -0800
From: "r.stricklin" <bear at typewritten.org>
Subject: Re: any idea what this schematic is?
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <62F98EEF-A14E-4CF5-9BCF-90EBF9A0DE93 at typewritten.org>
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On Dec 20, 2008, at 11:46 PM, Alexandre Souza wrote:
>>>
> - It has a 50-pin card edge connector (Lisa, maybe?)
I'm not sure what the mystery is. It fits a Lisa, and was used to
download software to the early prototypes of the Macintosh.
http://www.digibarn.com/collections/diagrams/early-mac-interfaces/index.html
The earliest Lisa prototypes had 50-pin edge connectors for the I/O
expansion cards. Sometime between 7/81 and 2/82 the Lisa got the pinch-
fit, 56-pin edge connector for I/O expansion cards that it eventually
shipped with. The collection of diagrams at DigiBarn (from which the
flickr image was nicked) shows this evolution pretty clearly.
ok
bear
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