14 Feb
2002
14 Feb
'02
8:38 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Chris Wren [mailto:jcwren@jcwren.com]
A) Isn't the problem that *everything* is
considered classic
by this group?
That's a problem? Seriously, though, you'd likely get agreement from
most of the group that there are a lot of Macs and peesees that
certainly aren't classic, despite their on-topicness. :)
The trouble is that we could never agree on _which_ ones... well,
maybe we could agree that anything made by (the new) packard bell
probably isn't. I don't know if there are any packard bell fans
here, but most people I've spoken to about it specifically think
the new company's never made anything good.
Regrads,
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl
Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
14 Feb
14 Feb
9:17 a.m.
New subject: Classic/collectible (was: RE: STAPLES STORES WILL TAKE OLD COMPUTERS)
On Thu, 14 Feb 2002, Christopher Smith wrote:
I'm a fan of the odd and unusual when it comes to PC/AT era hardware. I
personally like things like EISA, MCA, and even SCSI based systems and
cards. By far, my most favorite "unusual" devices are Pioneer cdrom
changers (which are now on-topic, since they started making them in
1990-92), and I just acquired 3 more thanks to a fellow classiccmper :)
Other than the original IBM PC/XT/AT and Microchannel systems, for the
most part, the only other PC/AT era systems I collect were ones produced
by Compaq. One of my favorite systems from their 386 line is the Deskpro
386/25M. That machine must have cost a small fortune brand new, and I
think the intended market for it was a high end workstation or network
server. It has an EISA bus, and most of the cards that came installed in
the system were also EISA. The one I have even came with a Compaq branded
ethernet board installed.
As for Packard Bell, I'd hope there is at least one collector of Packard
Bell systems out there (I don't have the room nor interest). If no one
preserves their systems, we won't be able to show anyone 10 years from now
just how awful they really were compared to an IBM, Compaq, or other brand
system made during the same time period.
-Toth
From: John
Chris Wren [mailto:jcwren@jcwren.com]
A) Isn't the problem that *everything* is
considered classic
by this group?
That's a problem? Seriously, though, you'd likely get agreement from
most of the group that there are a lot of Macs and peesees that
certainly aren't classic, despite their on-topicness. :)
The trouble is that we could never agree on _which_ ones... well,
maybe we could agree that anything made by (the new) packard bell
probably isn't. I don't know if there are any packard bell fans here,
but most people I've spoken to about it specifically think the new
company's never made anything good. 
9:52 a.m.
New subject: CD-ROM changers (was Re: Classic/collectible)
--- Tothwolf <tothwolf(a)concentric.net> wrote:
By far, my most favorite "unusual" devices
are Pioneer cdrom
changers (which are now on-topic, since they started making them in
1990-92), and I just acquired 3 more thanks to a fellow classiccmper :)
I have a 4x4 (NEC?) - half-height internal IDE 4X CD-ROM changer, and
an external NEC 2X 7-disk changer (each disc is a unit under the changer's
LUN - not all OSes like talking to it). If big disks weren't so cheap,
it'd be cooler.
As for Packard Bell, I'd hope there is at least
one collector of Packard
Bell systems out there (I don't have the room nor interest). If no one
preserves their systems, we won't be able to show anyone 10 years from
now just how awful they really were compared to an IBM, Compaq, or other
brand system made during the same time period.
I was using a Packard-Bell 486 as my router until the PSU died about 10
days ago. It's unremarkable, but it was free. I kinda like the packaging
(the case screws are hidden in the front by a pair of drop-down plastic
tabs), much more so, say, than the Compaq 386-line from about 10 years
ago (full-height with custom drive bezels, not the slim-line desktop
cases like the 386N).
I do agree that in general, Packard-Bell stuff was crap. Nevertheless, I
was using one to pass hundreds of gigabytes from my cable modem (1-5 GB
per day for months). I would have just dropped a new PSU in there, but
I need to use VPN now, and my Linux Router Project floppy didn't have
ipsec support compiled in, and it was easier to replace it with an 802.11b
Barricade router than build a new router floppy from scratch.
This was the second router in 4 years that had an odd PSU that died (I've
been using undersized boxes on a top shelf, not full-sized desktop boxes
with ordinary power supplies and easy-to-replace fans). I'm not picking
on P-B in particular - consumer-grade PC PSUs can't take 24x7x365 usage
forever. They don't have fans that last.
-ethan
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2:40 a.m.
New subject: CD-ROM changers (was Re: Classic/collectible)
On Thu, 14 Feb 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:
This was the second router in 4 years that had an odd
PSU that died
(I've been using undersized boxes on a top shelf, not full-sized desktop
boxes with ordinary power supplies and easy-to-replace fans). I'm not
picking on P-B in particular - consumer-grade PC PSUs can't take
24x7x365 usage forever. They don't have fans that last.
The 386 box that I was using for my voicemail system finally died a couple
months back. It ran 24x7 for at least 6-7 years and ran 24x7 before that
for at least a year at the high school I originally installed it at.
It started crashing in a most odd way one day. The video would be a bunch
of flashing pixels with most of the screen gone, and it wouldn't respond
to even a hard reset. I had to shut it off to reboot it. After it did
this a few times I figured the motherboard was finally done, and being
that PCs are cheaper and more common than dirt, I figured it was time to
move it over to a 486 I had laying around.
It turns out that the motherboard was fine. It was the power supply that
had gone bad after not having a working fan for at least 2-3 years :)
I would've kept the system running on the 386 just for old times sake and
the fact that it worked so well for so long and I'm a sentimentalist when
it comes to old hardware (as if that wasn't obvious) but the 486 is
preferable because it runs my voicemail scripts much faster.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
12:51 p.m.
New subject: CD-ROM changers (was Re: Classic/collectible)
This was the second router in 4 years that had an odd
PSU that died (I've
been using undersized boxes on a top shelf, not full-sized desktop boxes
with ordinary power supplies and easy-to-replace fans). I'm not picking
on P-B in particular - consumer-grade PC PSUs can't take 24x7x365 usage
forever. They don't have fans that last.
-ethan
If you have another crappy peecee that u are using that has 60mm
fans, 80mm even. Easiest way to make it last replace that fan with
YS Tech 27 CFM 60x25mm fan from overclocking websites.
They also carry quality fans that has ball bearings in them including
that 80mm fans.
Ditto to used fan pulls on websites, many of these are dual ball
bearings types.
Cheers,
Wizard
PS: I sometimes change fans to get noise level down. Many are
noisier than others at given CFM rating. I find this easier to do
this by pulling off desireable fans from new heatsinks or from used
PSUs that came out of name-brand machines like IBM, Compaq etc that
does use quality fans. Sometimes find a machine (usually IBM) with
temp sensor built in for speed. cool=slow gradually hotter=faster.
9:44 p.m.
New subject: Fans was Re: CD-ROM changers
This was the
second router in 4 years that had an odd PSU that died (I've been
using undersized boxes on a top shelf, not full-sized desktop boxes with
ordinary power supplies and easy-to-replace fans). I'm not picking on P-B in
particular - consumer-grade PC PSUs can't take 24x7x365 usage forever. They
don't have fans that last.
-ethan
If you have another crappy peecee that u are using that has 60mm
fans, 80mm even. Easiest way to make it last replace that fan with
YS Tech 27 CFM 60x25mm fan from overclocking websites.
They also carry quality fans that has ball bearings in them including
that 80mm fans.
Ditto to used fan pulls on websites, many of these are dual ball
bearings types.
Cheers,
Wizard
PS: I sometimes change fans to get noise level down. Many are
noisier than others at given CFM rating. I find this easier to do
this by pulling off desireable fans from new heatsinks or from used
PSUs that came out of name-brand machines like IBM, Compaq etc that
does use quality fans. Sometimes find a machine (usually IBM) with
temp sensor built in for speed. cool=slow gradually hotter=faster. 
15 Feb
15 Feb
2:08 a.m.
New subject: Fans was Re: CD-ROM changers
I'm wondering what problems I might encounter if I
put some sort of a light
filter e.g. range-hood filter cut to size over the intake vent ? Would the
Hard fact of life is that all working filters will clog and damage the
computer much sooner than the accumulation of crud from no filter would
cause any problems.
I am working at the idea of setting up 50 PCs in a game center, and my plan
for cooling is to duct AC air directly to each case. That way one decent
filter on the AC should keep all my PCs cool and clean.
16 Feb
16 Feb
9:56 p.m.
New subject: CD-ROM changers (was Re: Classic/collectible)
--- jpero(a)sympatico.ca wrote:
That's a find idea for full-sized machines. Slim-line cases, especially
some of the ones I have that only take two ISA cards, have fans on the
order of 35-50mm tall.
> This was the second router in 4 years that had an
odd PSU that died
> (I've been using undersized boxes on a top shelf, not full-sized
desktop
boxes with
ordinary power supplies and easy-to-replace fans).
If you have another crappy peecee that u are using that has 60mm
fans, 80mm even. Easiest way to make it last replace that fan with
YS Tech 27 CFM 60x25mm fan from overclocking websites. They also carry quality fans that has ball bearings in
them including
that 80mm fans.
I personally only purchase ball-bearing fans. OTOH, I do not automatically
replace existing fans in things I pick up, especially for free.
-ethan
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1:39 p.m.
The oddest thing to me that Staples didn't have were staples. I have a
Bostich mini stapler that I BOUGHT at Staples, and they don't carry the
replacement staples in the store or the catalog.
3:59 p.m.
Most regular "mini-staples" should work, regardless of brand. I have a few
that I use in briefcases, my son's semi, etc and we pick up generics right
at Walmart, Kmart, Dollar Store, etc.
=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford
=> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 6:40 PM
=> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> Subject: RE: STAPLES STORES WILL TAKE OLD COMPUTERS
=>
=>
=> The oddest thing to me that Staples didn't have were staples. I have a
=> Bostich mini stapler that I BOUGHT at Staples, and they don't carry the
=> replacement staples in the store or the catalog.
=>
=>
=>
4:36 p.m.
Most regular "mini-staples" should work,
regardless of brand. I have a few
that I use in briefcases, my son's semi, etc and we pick up generics right
at Walmart, Kmart, Dollar Store, etc.
Swingline and Bostich are just enough different to cause jams etc.,
Swingline is what everybody thinks of as a ministaple and what everybody
carries, but that does me no good.
15 Feb
15 Feb
1:20 a.m.
The oddest
thing to me that Staples didn't have were staples. I have a
Bostich mini stapler that I BOUGHT at Staples, and they don't carry the
replacement staples in the store or the catalog.
. . .
> Stop bashing Staples . . . they're as good as any . . .
8186
days inactive
8189
days old
13 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
csmith＠amdocs.com -
doc＠mdrconsult.com -
erd_6502＠yahoo.com -
foo＠siconic.com -
jpero＠sympatico.ca -
lgwalker＠mts.net -
mikeford＠socal.rr.com -
rhb57＠vol.com -
tothwolf＠concentric.net