Disk Drive Documents - test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

6 Jun 1999

Let's try to keep this in perspective, Sam.  When there's a text file format
which will display the exploded view drawings in these service documents on
your (Apple ][, Commodore 64, Atari x00, TI 99/4a, TRS-80 Model x, Heathkit
Hx, OSI Challenger x, IMSAI 8080, Altair
...
 8800, etc) then you may have a valid point.  For that
matter, aside from the last three on the list, there's not one likely to need
this
documentation, nor is it likely that anyone unable to afford disk space
enough to hold a complete PDF file of one of these relatively short
documents when a 10GB disk drive costs less than $200, will be able to
afford one of the "antique" devices to which they apply.

Aside from all that, I'd speculate that there are more Windows users who die
every day than there are users of computer systems desiring but inherently
unable to view PDF files in the world.  Having said that, however, I submit
that the majority should not dictate to the extent that the needs of the
minority are ignored.  If you can come up with a format common to both
illustrations and text for the implementation of which a single and
easy-to-use tool set is in the hands of someone(s) willing to process this
set of documents within a reasonable time frame into an appropriately
formatted archive suitable to the yet-to-be-determined provider of web-site
space, it will receive appropriate consideration.  Take solace in the fact
that I will not likely be among those making these choices.  Since I have
the documents, my preference, at least with respect to them is not
particularly relevant.

Take a look at the "unofficial CP/M web site," whatever the URL is, and
you'll see the document files offered in several formats, though I'd
speculate that none of the systems you listed in your comments, "(Apple ][,
Commodore 64, Atari x00, TI 99/4a, TRS-80 Model x, Heathkit Hx, OSI
Challenger x, IMSAI 8080, Altair 8800, etc)" can view any of those files.

Perhaps you can offer a positive construct rather than simply wringing your
hands and being a naysayer.

Dick

-----Original Message-----
From: Sellam Ismail &lt;dastar(a)ncal.verio.com&gt;
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
&lt;classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu&gt;
Date: Sunday, June 06, 1999 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: Disk Drive Documents

...
 On Sun, 6 Jun 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote:

  Well, I
definitely agree with Tony on this. 
 On which point, Sam? 
On the point that the archive should be made accessible to as many people
as possible, and that means using formats and data that just about anyone
can read.

> Well, I don't, and for the reason that lowest common denominator means the
...
 > lowest efficiency for the most people.  I want to
make it easy and
> accessible to as many people as possible.  Based on statistics, that means
...
 > that the only OS that really matters is  . . . now
say it along with me . .
...

Bullshit.  There are more tools for viewing ASCII data than any other
format under every OS.  This includes tools that allow you to search and
edit them.  Just because most of the planet is stuck with a Microsoft OS
doesn't mean that all those people can also use a PDF viewer.  I'm on a
Pentium 133 system and viewing PDF files is a pain in the ass.

It is also the most efficient format in terms of taking up the least
amount of storage space.  I can download a textfile in a few seconds.  I
can even view it with my web browser, and search it.  I can cut parts out
and paste them elsewhere.

Making a
"public" archive in the sense that everyone should be able to view it
means catering to the lowest common denominator.

> I don't anticipate getting complete agreement from everyone.  What has to
be
...
 > considered is (1) What do the owners of the data
have to say? (2) What are
...
 > the people willing to do the work willing to do?
(3) Where are these
> documents to be stored and presented to the public and how much space will
...
 > they allow for this purpose? (4) What will satisfy
the needs and preferences
...
 > of MOST of the people having access to the
documents?  The weight assigned
...
   to the answers
will probably be in about this order as well. 
What good is putting in all the effort when not many people will be able
to benefit from that effort?  Contrary to what you think, the PDF format
is not that widespread.  Sure there are viewers, and the format is
documented, but how many people have that plug-in or the stand-alone on
their computer?  Now ask yourself, how many people have a text editor on
their computer?

> As far as I'm concerned, what's most important is that the documents be
> stored as complete, separate,  and single files.  They should not be broken
...
 > up into pages or chapters or text in one part and
graphics in another in the
...
   stupid,
Stupid, STUPID way much of the LINUX documentation is published. 
Not everyone with a Linux box has a SVGA monitor with gigabytes of hard
drive space and oodles of RAM.  The developers of the Linux documentation
were smart enough to realize that.  It allows you to get only what you
need, and not end up with a bunch of dead data taking up precious space on
your hard drive.

> Further, while GIF format is probably OK for your vacation pictures or the
...
 > latest centerfold, I don't find it
particularly advantageous for presenting
...
 > line-art drawings because common viewers don't
have a standard presentation
...
 > format for them.  They come in a size matched to
some raster image and if
> your display matches it, great, else too bad.  Again I prefer the PDF, not
...
 > only because it is what most people can get and
use for free, but because it
...
   is a single
format useable in common for both text and graphics. 
I can't view a PDF file with my (Apple ][, Commodore 64, Atari x00, TI
99/4a, TRS-80 Model x, Heathkit Hx, OSI Challenger x, IMSAI 8080, Altair
8800, etc).

Sellam                                    Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
...

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