2 Apr
2002
2 Apr
'02
2:50 p.m.
> In the case of self-tapping screws it generally
pervents the screw from
> starting a new thread (which, if done enough times means there's no
metal
left). In the
case of large-diameter fine pitch threads (like lens
retaining rings in cameras, OK, off-topic, but I can't think of such a
thread in a computer), it helps prevent cross-threading.
I assumed this trick was well-known, but perhaps not.
-tony
Sheesh! I should have read one more message!
- don from which to remove a screw. Everything ends up with
half
the screws it was designed to use.
Now, we just bought 25 Dells that don't use very many screws.
Where oh where will I get a screw when I need one?
-dq
2 Apr
2 Apr
3:24 p.m.
www.cyberguys.com, that's where. Buy a 100 pack for a couple of dollars,
put in your "instant super-hero stash". Make yourself look like a genius,
and your cow-orkers like the bumbling boobs they are. Also, order a couple
of those 1' foot extension cords. For a dollar, it's a great way to keep a
wall-wart from eating up more than one socket. More "looking like a genius"
stuff.
Remember, to the natives, any sufficiently advanced technology is
indistinguishable from magic. For a few dollars, you can be an impressive
magician to the ignorant masses.
--John
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of
Douglas H. Quebbeman
Now, we just bought 25 Dells that don't use very many screws.
Where oh where will I get a screw when I need one?
-dq
3:26 p.m.
On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote:
When I need a screw for a PC, I typically have to find
a PC
from which to remove a screw. Everything ends up with half
the screws it was designed to use.
Now, we just bought 25 Dells that don't use very many screws.
Where oh where will I get a screw when I need one?
Heh. I worked at a university research lab that was that way. I
finally decided that depending on them for incidental supplies like
screws, thermal paste, and even floppy disks (for MY use at the lab, not
for the lab's use) was more frustration than it was worth. I buy screws
by the pound at the Goodwill or the used component shop, floppies by the
hundred, and at the time, paste by the 2.5oz pot. Supplying that lab
probably cost me $3 a month and kept me from beating the Director about
the head and neck.
Doc
3:34 p.m.
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12:02 p.m.
From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Subject: Re: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New"
PDP-8))
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 03:34:11 +0100 (BST)
Reply-to: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
> The kind of screws I'm lamenting are cast,
and cast poorly...
>
> I assume everyone knows what casting flash is... these screws
> have casting flash... when you thread them through, the sheet
> metal eats at the flash, and you get metal bits from that, and
> at the same time, the part of the flash that doesn't come off
> quickly reams the sheet metal to death.
Casting isn't good for that small like screws., Maybe screws was
clapped together in die halves squeezing out screws. That I not yet
seen that kind YET except on bigger diameter threads and usually
diecast.
If true, that is truly crappiest parts ever heard of.
I keep a 2L plastic jarful, many rolling around in many drawer
bottoms of bolts, screws, nuts, washers of all kinds mixed with few
odd and bits of parts. Almost 10lbs. Got them by culling parts from
decent discards I find over the years.
Cheers,
Doubtful Wizard
PS: Oh, Your dept who bought up that 25 dells made serious
*mistake*. Only way dept can depend on them running w/ replacement
parts is dell's especially their power supplies and few oddball
boards. PSUs are totally non-standard pinouts. Oh, your dept also
didn't choose AMD and let dell know everybody else wanted quality but
flexible choices in different brands of CPUs instead of Intel-only.
4:11 p.m.
On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Tony Duell wrote:
Have you tried running them into the appropriate size
die (either 6-32
UNC or M3, depening on which type of screw they are). Doing that normally
cleans up such threads.
Tony,
As hard as it may be to envision, I bet _most_ of the subscribers to
this list do not own tap & die sets. Many probably own only one hammer,
too.
As a tool nut myself, I can't really grasp that concept, but I've come
to accept it.
Doc, who has a very sharp knife and a flashlight at all times,
or did until September 11....
3 Apr
3 Apr
11:06 a.m.
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2 Apr
2 Apr
6:22 p.m.
On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote:
I never am as clear in some of my posts as I'd like...
The kind of screws I'm lamenting are cast, and cast poorly...
I assume everyone knows what casting flash is... these screws
have casting flash... when you thread them through, the sheet
metal eats at the flash, and you get metal bits from that, and
at the same time, the part of the flash that doesn't come off
quickly reams the sheet metal to death.
It is also possible that they are stamped in ill-mating dies,
which could provide the same result.
- don
> In the
case of self-tapping screws it generally pervents the screw from
> starting a new thread (which, if done enough times means there's no
metal
left). In
the case of large-diameter fine pitch threads (like lens
retaining rings in cameras, OK, off-topic, but I can't think of such a
thread in a computer), it helps prevent cross-threading.
I assumed this trick was well-known, but perhaps not.
-tony
Sheesh! I should have read one more message!
- don *Buy* quality screws? There is an advertisement
showing here
in the U.S. Midwest for an office supply firm. The scene is
set in a "typical" office... some shirts are having a meeting,
when another shirt comes in and asks if "can we use the pen"?
THE pen. The only pen in the office.
When I need a screw for a PC, I typically have to find a PC
from which to remove a screw. Everything ends up with half
the screws it was designed to use.
Now, we just bought 25 Dells that don't use very many screws.
Where oh where will I get a screw when I need one?
-dq
3 Apr
3 Apr
4:08 a.m.
If your screws aren't 6x32's already, the easiest and probably most practical
thing to do is get a 6x32 roll-tap, and "fix" the application so you can get
the "right" screws whenever you need.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Maslin" <donm(a)cts.com>
To: "ClassicCmp List" <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8))
I never am as clear in some of my posts as I'd like...
The kind of screws I'm lamenting are cast, and cast poorly...
I assume everyone knows what casting flash is... these screws
have casting flash... when you thread them through, the sheet
metal eats at the flash, and you get metal bits from that, and
at the same time, the part of the flash that doesn't come off
quickly reams the sheet metal to death.
It is also possible that they are stamped in ill-mating dies,
which could provide the same result.
- don
On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote:
> > > In the case of self-tapping screws it generally pervents the screw
from
> starting a new thread (which, if done enough
times means there's no
metal
left). In
the case of large-diameter fine pitch threads (like lens
retaining rings in cameras, OK, off-topic, but I can't think of such a
thread in a computer), it helps prevent cross-threading.
I assumed this trick was well-known, but perhaps not.
-tony
Sheesh! I should have read one more message!
- don *Buy* quality screws? There is an advertisement
showing here
in the U.S. Midwest for an office supply firm. The scene is
set in a "typical" office... some shirts are having a meeting,
when another shirt comes in and asks if "can we use the pen"?
THE pen. The only pen in the office.
When I need a screw for a PC, I typically have to find a PC
from which to remove a screw. Everything ends up with half
the screws it was designed to use.
Now, we just bought 25 Dells that don't use very many screws.
Where oh where will I get a screw when I need one?
-dq
12:26 p.m.
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3:09 p.m.
see below, plz.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Duell" <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8))
> If your screws aren't 6x32's already, the easiest and probably most
practical
Well, no, since I haven't been in the U.K since the '60's. Since I buy
taps
by the boxful, they're cheap. The local machine tool vendor charges me the
boxful price, since I buy (or used to buy) hundreds of boxfuls per year.
Screws that sell for $0.35 at the hardware store cost $1.20 for a box of 100.
One time I threw up my hands while at the hardware store and went to a local
supply house a couple of blocks away to buy a box of washers, a box of nuts,
and a box of screws, for about $1.25 for each box that would have cost over $1
for the four of each at the hardware store. I still have some of them, BTW,
but it's a comfort knowing I don't have to be gouged each time I need 'em.
There's probably another screw, hence another tap that would work as well in
the UK, however, and I'd suggest a roll-tap in that size. They're not limited
to US in their availability, nor do they come only in "English" unit sizes.
Here in the U.S, if you go to a hardware or auto parts store and attempt to
buy a metric bolt, you can probably get it. If you try to find a matching
nut, however, it's unlikely you'll find one at a hardware or auto parts store,
since there are clearly different thread pitches available and someone decided
that it's not necessary to have similarly specified nuts and bolts that fit.
Those of you in the U.S. ought to try this if you haven't run into it yet. I
didn't realize it was possible to get nuts and bolts with matching numbers,
yet not have them fit ... only in Americal ...
> thing to do is get a 6x32 roll-tap, and
"fix" the application so you can
get
the
"right" screws whenever you need.
Fine in the States, but have you tried getting 6-32 screws (or any small
UNC screws) over in the UK? They are essentially unobtainable. ISO metric
(M3) are trivial to get, so are the strange 'BA' screws (strange because
of the 47.5 degree thread angle for one thing!).
A couple of my friends couldn't understand why I grabbed a couple of
boxes of random DEC screws/nuts/etc at a clearout. Well, they couldn't
understand why I did it until they came to assemble their newly-obtained
PDP11s...
DEC isn't the only vendor that used extremely odd hardware. I've had to
make
quite a bit of odd-ball stuff myself.
4 Apr
4 Apr
11:05 a.m.
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3 Apr
3 Apr
3:46 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
What is UNC, and BA? Is BA WHitworth?
I rarely find computers (pc's) that use "American" threaded screws.....
probably becasue so much of the stuff is from China :-(
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA
If your screws
aren't 6x32's already, the easiest and probably most practical
thing to do is get a 6x32 roll-tap, and "fix" the application so you can get
the "right" screws whenever you need.
Fine in the States, but have you tried getting 6-32 screws (or any small
UNC screws) over in the UK? They are essentially unobtainable. ISO metric
(M3) are trivial to get, so are the strange 'BA' screws (strange because
of the 47.5 degree thread angle foe one thing!).
7:17 p.m.
Over the past decade I've seen the screws that hold the board in PC's go from
some ridiculously fine metric to what seems to be 6x32. The screws they
provide fit 6x32 nuts just fine. I'd have thought the finer thread would last
longer, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chad Fernandez" <fernande(a)internet1.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8))
Tony Duell wrote:
>>If your screws aren't 6x32's already, the easiest and probably most
practical
>>thing to do is get a 6x32 roll-tap, and
"fix" the application so you can
get
>>the "right" screws whenever you
need.
>
<snip>
I rarely find computers (pc's) that use
"American" threaded screws.....
probably becasue so much of the stuff is from China :-(
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA
4 Apr
4 Apr
3:13 a.m.
BA is British Association. I think 2BA and 4BA are the most common sizes
we might see. UNC is Unified Coarse which is almost, but not quite, the
same as ANC. BA is not Whitworth.
On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote:
Tony Duell wrote:
What is UNC, and BA? Is BA WHitworth?
I rarely find computers (pc's) that use "American" threaded screws.....
probably becasue so much of the stuff is from China :-(
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA
M. K. Peirce
Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc.
Shady Lea, Rhode Island
"Casta est quam nemo rogavit."
- Ovid
If your
screws aren't 6x32's already, the easiest and probably most practical
thing to do is get a 6x32 roll-tap, and "fix" the application so you can get
the "right" screws whenever you need.
Fine in the States, but have you tried getting 6-32 screws (or any small
UNC screws) over in the UK? They are essentially unobtainable. ISO metric
(M3) are trivial to get, so are the strange 'BA' screws (strange because
of the 47.5 degree thread angle foe one thing!).
6:21 a.m.
American National Coarse. Whitworth is always coarse as I recall. Its
fine companion would, I think, be BSF - British Standard Fine. Tony can
probably confirm this.
On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote:
What is ANC?
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA
Merle K. Peirce wrote:
M. K. Peirce
Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc.
Shady Lea, Rhode Island
"Casta est quam nemo rogavit."
- Ovid
BA is British Association. I think 2BA and 4BA
are the most common sizes
we might see. UNC is Unified Coarse which is almost, but not quite, the
same as ANC. BA is not Whitworth.
7:35 a.m.
On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Merle K. Peirce wrote:
American National Coarse. Whitworth is always coarse
as I recall. Its
fine companion would, I think, be BSF - British Standard Fine. Tony can
probably confirm this.
Almost on-topic, except it had zero computing technology -- I rode a
'69 Triumph T100C (single-carb 500cc twin) for several years that had a
combination of metric, SAE, and Whitworth fasteners. IIRC, all the body
parts were metric, the external engine components - covers, jets, etc -
were SAE, and the engine internals were Whitworth. I may have that
swapped around.
I dunno if Whitworth was always _coarse_, but it was always
_irritating_!
Doc
12:08 p.m.
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12:22 p.m.
That's because you had the wrong wrenches. I've always wanted to have
someone ask me for a half-inch wrench and hand him a Whitworth
half-inch. I think there's a set in the Rover.
On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Doc wrote:
On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Merle K. Peirce wrote:
M. K. Peirce
Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc.
Shady Lea, Rhode Island
"Casta est quam nemo rogavit."
- Ovid
American National Coarse. Whitworth is always
coarse as I recall. Its
fine companion would, I think, be BSF - British Standard Fine. Tony can
probably confirm this.
Almost on-topic, except it had zero computing technology -- I rode a
'69 Triumph T100C (single-carb 500cc twin) for several years that had a
combination of metric, SAE, and Whitworth fasteners. IIRC, all the body
parts were metric, the external engine components - covers, jets, etc -
were SAE, and the engine internals were Whitworth. I may have that
swapped around.
I dunno if Whitworth was always _coarse_, but it was always
_irritating_!
Doc
1:04 p.m.
On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Merle K. Peirce wrote:
That's because you had the wrong wrenches.
I've always wanted to have
someone ask me for a half-inch wrench and hand him a Whitworth
half-inch. I think there's a set in the Rover.
I had the _right_ wrenches. A 4-inch Snap-On crescent, erm (here we
go again), adjustable. Seriously, it wasn't the wrenches so much as
keeping the thread patterns straight when I was rebuilding it toasted.
Doc
5:29 p.m.
I've read about bolt types on Brit bikes a bit. It seems that they had
a variety of things they called Whitworth.
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA
Merle K. Peirce wrote:
That's because you had the wrong wrenches.
I've always wanted to have
someone ask me for a half-inch wrench and hand him a Whitworth
half-inch. I think there's a set in the Rover.
12:03 p.m.
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11:16 a.m.
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5:37 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
Then the world is screwed up (but that's nothing
new). PCs in the UK are
assmebled with 6-32 UNC screws (which we find hard to get) mostly. I
suppose yours are assembled with M3 screws, right :-)
I'm not sure what size they are. I run into several sizes actually.
Once on a while, I get desperate for a screw and start digging through
my collction of screws from when I was into R/C cars. Usually, I can't
find a match, metric or SAE.
I do have one big unused server case, made in the US, by Tandy, for
Grid, for the US Government. It does use 6/32. If I ever do use it
again, I'll be switching all the screws to "allen" head button type screws.
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA
5 Apr
5 Apr
2:44 a.m.
On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote:
I do have one big unused server case, made in the US,
by Tandy, for
Grid, for the US Government. It does use 6/32. If I ever do use it
again, I'll be switching all the screws to "allen" head button type screws.
Whitworth, or BSF?
M. K. Peirce
Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc.
Shady Lea, Rhode Island
"Casta est quam nemo rogavit."
- Ovid
3:29 a.m.
New subject: sort of OT: lawsuit against an email list
It doesn't have to do with classic computers, but certainly
impacts the list in general....here's a link to an article about a
$15million lawsuit against members of an email list:
http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2002/04/04/aquatic_plants/index.html
Jeff
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
4:28 a.m.
Maybe I typed that wrong. I meant 6-32, not 6/32". I assume it's SAE,
as they are standard "American" threads. I think it's my only PC class
computer that isn't metric. Although, to be perfectly honest. I'm not
sure what thread my PS/2's use. Screws aren't as big of an issue, with
PS/2's.
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA
Merle K. Peirce wrote:
On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote:
I do have one big unused server case, made in the
US, by Tandy, for
Grid, for the US Government. It does use 6/32. If I ever do use it
again, I'll be switching all the screws to "allen" head button type screws.
Whitworth, or BSF?
M. K. Peirce
Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc.
Shady Lea, Rhode Island
"Casta est quam nemo rogavit."
- Ovid
8:08 a.m.
>>I do have one big unused server case, made in
the US, by Tandy, for
>>Grid, for the US Government. It does use 6/32. If I ever do use it
>>again, I'll be switching all the screws to "allen" head button type
screws.
>
> Whitworth, or BSF?
A tough choice. But to help keep it global, at least have them made up to
take a metric Allen wrench. But Allen is so boring. There are so many
more interesting heads available, such as tri-wing, triple-square, etc.
And how about using left-handed threads? That will give pause to those
who would consider going into the case.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
2 Apr
2 Apr
10:06 p.m.
-> I assume everyone knows what casting flash is... these screws
-> have casting flash...
Look closely. It is not casting flash. Screws aren't cast.
As mentioned in an earlier post, the heads and threads are
made by pressing (deformation) of a rod.
When the form dies wear, are improperly secured, or are misaligned,
the result is "extruded squish", not "casting flash".
Bill
8140
days inactive
8143
days old
29 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
at258＠osfn.org -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
doc＠mdrconsult.com -
donm＠cts.com -
dquebbeman＠acm.org -
edick＠idcomm.com -
fernande＠internet1.net -
jcwren＠jcwren.com -
jhellige＠earthlink.net -
jpero＠sympatico.ca -
whdawson＠localisps.net