7 Oct
2001
7 Oct
'01
12:26 p.m.
I was not a RS user at the time and it's quite
possible that the rumors I heard
regarding the M1 and those about the M3 were geting mixed together. I wasn't
even aware that there wasn't a two-sided option on the stock model 3.
The third-party controllers were most popular on the Model 1, since the stock
FDC was SD. There were a few third-party controllers for the Model III and
the early Model 4, but they weren't as popular as the 1793 was more capable.
The stock Model 1 FDC also had reliability problems that lead to third-party
data separator plug-in circuits.
The only Model 1/III/4 that came stock with DS drives was the 4D. Any other
DS setup was third-party. The stock III/4 controllers (both the add-on in
the III and early 4 and the built-in on the gate-array 4) had no problems
with DS drives.
--
Eric Dittman
dittman(a)dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/
7 Oct
7 Oct
3:38 p.m.
On Sun, 7 Oct 2001, Eric Dittman wrote:
Does that imply that merely substituting DS drives would make a 4 DS
capable, or were there some other modifications necessary?
- don
I was not a RS
user at the time and it's quite possible that the rumors I heard
regarding the M1 and those about the M3 were geting mixed together. I wasn't
even aware that there wasn't a two-sided option on the stock model 3.
The third-party controllers were most popular on the Model 1, since the stock
FDC was SD. There were a few third-party controllers for the Model III and
the early Model 4, but they weren't as popular as the 1793 was more capable.
The stock Model 1 FDC also had reliability problems that lead to third-party
data separator plug-in circuits.
The only Model 1/III/4 that came stock with DS drives was the 4D. Any other
DS setup was third-party. The stock III/4 controllers (both the add-on in
the III and early 4 and the built-in on the gate-array 4) had no problems
with DS drives. --
Eric Dittman
dittman(a)dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/
4:32 p.m.
The only Model
1/III/4 that came stock with DS drives was the 4D. Any other
DS setup was third-party. The stock III/4 controllers (both the add-on in
the III and early 4 and the built-in on the gate-array 4) had no problems
with DS drives.
Does that imply that merely substituting DS drives would make a 4 DS
capable, or were there some other modifications necessary? 
5:08 p.m.
> > The only Model 1/III/4 that came stock with
DS drives was the 4D. Any other
> > DS setup was third-party. The stock III/4 controllers (both the add-on in
> > the III and early 4 and the built-in on the gate-array 4) had no problems
> > with DS drives.
IIRC, RS used pin 32 as drive select 3 (the fourth drive), although most
everyone else used it as side select for double sided drives. Since RS
used "missing pins in the cable" for drive select, and shorted pins
10,12,14, and 32 together on each drive, ...
If you used aftermarket stuff, it was no big deal. But if you used almost
all RS stuff, then it would require a jumper wire on the controller to
connect side select instead of DS3 to pin 32, a non RS cable, NOT using 4
drives on the cable, and cutting traces on all RS drives on that cable to
do drive select at the drive instead of in the cable (at least for DS3)
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
6:21 p.m.
> > The
only Model 1/III/4 that came stock with DS drives was the 4D. Any other
> > DS setup was third-party. The stock III/4 controllers (both the add-on in
> > the III and early 4 and the built-in on the gate-array 4) had no problems
> > with DS drives.
IIRC, RS used pin 32 as drive select 3 (the fourth drive), although most
everyone else used it as side select for double sided drives. Since RS
used "missing pins in the cable" for drive select, and shorted pins
10,12,14, and 32 together on each drive, ...
If you used aftermarket stuff, it was no big deal. But if you used almost
all RS stuff, then it would require a jumper wire on the controller to
connect side select instead of DS3 to pin 32, a non RS cable, NOT using 4
drives on the cable, and cutting traces on all RS drives on that cable to
do drive select at the drive instead of in the cable (at least for DS3)
8 Oct
8 Oct
7:27 a.m.
> IIRC, RS used pin 32 as drive select 3 (the
fourth drive), although most
> everyone else used it as side select for double sided drives. Since RS
> used "missing pins in the cable" for drive select, and shorted pins
> 10,12,14, and 32 together on each drive, ...
> If you used aftermarket stuff, it was no big deal. But if you used almost
> all RS stuff, then it would require a jumper wire on the controller to
> connect side select instead of DS3 to pin 32, a non RS cable, NOT using 4
> drives on the cable, and cutting traces on all RS drives on that cable to
> do drive select at the drive instead of in the cable (at least for DS3)
On Sun, 7 Oct 2001, Eric Dittman wrote:
This was only on the Model I. The Model III and 4
didn't have this problem.
Not for INTERNAL drives. But the drives sold by RS for EXTERNAL use for
model 3, etc. were the same drives, with the same perverted jumpers. If
you were to use RS cable, and/or include a RS drive along with a DS one on
an external cable, then you DID have to deal with them shorting side
select to DS in the RS drives.
'Course, if you stuck with aftermarket drives, and used NORMAL drive
select, didn't put 4 drives external, and avoided RS's demented cables,
then it wasn't a problem.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
8:21 a.m.
> IIRC, RS
used pin 32 as drive select 3 (the fourth drive), although most
> everyone else used it as side select for double sided drives. Since RS
> used "missing pins in the cable" for drive select, and shorted pins
> 10,12,14, and 32 together on each drive, ...
> If you used aftermarket stuff, it was no big deal. But if you used almost
> all RS stuff, then it would require a jumper wire on the controller to
> connect side select instead of DS3 to pin 32, a non RS cable, NOT using 4
> drives on the cable, and cutting traces on all RS drives on that cable to
> do drive select at the drive instead of in the cable (at least for DS3)
On Sun, 7 Oct 2001, Eric Dittman wrote:
This was only on the Model I. The Model III and
4 didn't have this problem.
Not for INTERNAL drives. But the drives sold by RS for EXTERNAL use for
model 3, etc. were the same drives, with the same perverted jumpers. If
you were to use RS cable, and/or include a RS drive along with a DS one on
an external cable, then you DID have to deal with them shorting side
select to DS in the RS drives. 
2:37 p.m.
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7 Oct
7 Oct
7:48 p.m.
On Sun, 7 Oct 2001, Eric Dittman wrote:
I had a gate-array Model 4 that I installed two DSQD drives in without
any other modification (other than replacing the floppy cable that used
missing connectors for drive select).
Interesting! I was not aware of that. Rather like the Kaypro 2/84,
though you needed the DS specific utilities. Was this same upgrade
available for the non-gate-array machine?
- don
The only Model 1/III/4 that came stock with DS drives
was the 4D. Any other
DS setup was third-party. The stock III/4 controllers (both the add-on in
the III and early 4 and the built-in on the gate-array 4) had no problems
with DS drives.
Does that imply that merely substituting DS drives would make a 4 DS
capable, or were there some other modifications necessary? --
Eric Dittman
dittman(a)dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/
8 Oct
8 Oct
2:36 a.m.
The only Model
1/III/4 that came stock with DS drives was the 4D. Any other
DS setup was third-party. The stock III/4 controllers (both the add-on in
the III and early 4 and the built-in on the gate-array 4) had no problems
with DS drives.
Does that imply that merely substituting DS drives would make a 4 DS
capable, or were there some other modifications necessary?
1:24 p.m.
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1:06 p.m.
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8302
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12 comments
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participants (4)
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
dittman＠dittman.net -
donm＠cts.com