Well a online site or a fest no.matter what size requires legal advice.. set things up right from the start to protect yourself... anything that involves buying and selling invites fraud.. ? ?build it and they will come but... they are not all honest. ?Ed# Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Marvin Johnston <marvin at west.net> Date: 4/20/2016 10:57 AM (GMT-08:00) To: ClassicCmp <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: [OT] eBay tale (Was: Re: flea markets (was Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???)) I have a LOT of thoughts! My experience? I sold a computer last year and the buyer said it wasn't what he wanted, filed a SNAD claim, eBay took the money from my PayPal account, and I STILL don't have that computer back. I was putting on the US ARDF Championships and was out of internet range at the time and wasn't aware until it was too late that there was a problem. The eBay customer service dept, AKA Fraud promotion department, said it was my problem. I haven't bought or sold there since then. (I was a power seller with a 100% positive feedback rating... the buyer had zero feedback at the time.) The primary problem (as I see it) is pretty much identical to the flood of new computer manufacturers back in the mid 1970's... too many people with a great idea but no/minimal business or marketing experience to create a long term entity. Taking on eBay for a specific market (i.e. classic computers and related categories) is not difficult (simple and not easy.)? But it would require an intense marketing effort that most of us are not qualified to do, i.e. we don't know what we don't know. In case some of the people here aren't aware, there was talk of a vintage computer festival some 15 years ago (guessing since I don't remember exactly.) Sellam DID something instead of just talking about it, and the first Vintage Computer Festival was held at the Fairgrounds in Pleasonton, CA. While I don't agree with all of the current VCF policies (i.e. flea market), I absolutely admire and support what Evan and his team have done with VCF over the past years. Like Sellam, they have replaced talking with doing. Eric saw a need and started the Vintage Computer marketplace some years ago, and I think it is still a great idea. The only problem to some extent was buyers... the site needed more in order to attract more people :). What would I do if it became a priority? First set up some goals with the objectives of what the outcome is to be. One of the major goals would be building a community (such as this listserver!) or trying to get a buy-in from existing communities. A second would be to set up a timeline with monthly, 1 year, 5 year, etc. goals (can't hit a target that doesn't exist.) Defining the goals could be really hard depending on who was involved. I somewhat equate this to trying to herd feral cats :). The mechanics of putting up a site to compete with eBay is relatively easy although the legal aspects would probably require a specialized attorney if it were to become a major site. From a marketing perspective, I'd want to see podcasts (or similar) with interviews of people active in our hobby. This kind of historical perspective has been lost in other areas (amateur radio comes to mind) and is worth saving for posterity. Another aspect would be working to involve youth. The primary thing would be to get something going... it will never be "right" on the first try. An interesting marketing book is "Ready, Fire, Aim" by Michael Masterson (a pseudonym for Mark Ford?) That is a good philosophy to have. And realize that most of the time, those people who can start such a venture are probably unable to grow it to a significant business. Thus I would want the involved people to take the Kolbe A Index test (about $50.00, I'm 6384) showing what peoples natural strengths are and is pretty much constant thought a persons life. Anyway, a FEW ideas on building our hobby :). Marvin