8 Jun
2019
8 Jun
'19
4:08 p.m.
A follow-up to close out something:
OK, now a picture of the bus with no console card:
[Note: image
re-named, to correctly say what it's showing]
It's a bit hard to interpret what's going on
here .. The long assertion
of BSYNC is undoubtly the CPU trying to get the console CSR to respond,
and eventually timing out. Not sure what the short assertion following
it is - without looking at the ucode for the ODT, there's no way to know
what the CPU's doing.
Even harder to understand is what the BDAL line is
doing. It looks like
it's un-asserted (0, i.e. +3V) on the falling (electrically - rising,
logically) edge of BSYN (which would be incorrect - see above). And then
it hops around while BSYNC is asserted, which makes no sense at all to
me.
So this makes a little more sense now.
This is actually showing a NXM cycle to main memory (apparently to address 0),
hence the '0' on BDAL10. (The second assertion of BSYNC must be somehow
associated with the NXM.) Apparently it doesn't even try to talk to the
console card unless the memory is there OK; if it can't see the memory, it
must just reset and try again.
Here:
is a system with memory, but without a console. A very similar picture, but
here BDAL10 _is_ '1', as expected.
So the original picture did in fact indicate what the problem was - had I
known enough to know how to interpret it! Schaeffer's Law strikes again!
Although I still don't understand why the LSI-11 wants to see main memory on
the bus, in order for ODT to run. ODT doesn't use memory at all; ODT on the
KDF11 CPUs will run without any memory.
Noel
8 Jun
8 Jun
7:16 p.m.
On 06/08/2019 07:08 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:
A follow-up to close out something:
ODT for the two systems are very different. The LSI-11 ODT is microcode
in the base CPU MICOM set and very low level. Also the 11/2 cpu (dual
width is a bit differnt), KDF-11 the ODT is part of the higher level
code. The larger cards (11/23 and 23+) boot to resident (ep)rom.
Also consider the difference between the restart/run between the two.
If memory serves The KDF11 requires enough ram to have a few of the key
addresses in low memory operational.
There is a lot going on with the LSI-11 as it also initializes internal
and external RAM. At the time memory nearly always dynamic and require
refresh cycles before it is "on line".
The manuals detail it well.
Allison
OK, now a picture of the bus with no console
card:
[Note: image
re-named, to correctly say what it's showing]
It's a bit hard to interpret what's going
on here .. The long assertion
of BSYNC is undoubtly the CPU trying to get the console CSR to respond,
and eventually timing out. Not sure what the short assertion following
it is - without looking at the ucode for the ODT, there's no way to know
what the CPU's doing.
Even harder to understand is what the BDAL line
is doing. It looks like
it's un-asserted (0, i.e. +3V) on the falling (electrically - rising,
logically) edge of BSYN (which would be incorrect - see above). And then
it hops around while BSYNC is asserted, which makes no sense at all to
me.
So this makes a little more sense now.
This is actually showing a NXM cycle to main memory (apparently to address 0),
hence the '0' on BDAL10. (The second assertion of BSYNC must be somehow
associated with the NXM.) Apparently it doesn't even try to talk to the
console card unless the memory is there OK; if it can't see the memory, it
must just reset and try again.
Here:
is a system with memory, but without a console. A very similar picture, but
here BDAL10 _is_ '1', as expected.
So the original picture did in fact indicate what the problem was - had I
known enough to know how to interpret it! Schaeffer's Law strikes again!
Although I still don't understand why the LSI-11 wants to see main memory on
the bus, in order for ODT to run. ODT doesn't use memory at all; ODT on the
KDF11 CPUs will run without any memory. Noel
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