1 Oct
2019
1 Oct
'19
7:23 p.m.
The first implementation was done for the 7090 by McCarthy (hence CAR and
CDR --- Contents of Address Register and Contents of Decrement Register).
If you want to see a tiny implementation then look for the PDP-1
implementation done by L Peter Deutsch. There's a book chapter and then I
found this report:
http://s3data.computerhistory.org/pdp-1/DEC.pdp_1.1964.102650371.pdf
2 Oct
2 Oct
6:22 a.m.
On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 4:39 AM Lars Brinkhoff via cctech <
cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Mark Kahrs wrote:
First full version 7090 and then a version was ported tot he PDP-1 that was
less powerful. This is straight from the LISP manual on site.
Bill
The first implementation was done for the 7090 by
McCarthy (hence CAR
and CDR --- Contents of Address Register and Contents of Decrement
Register).
Or was it an IBM 704?
6:42 a.m.
Bill Degnan wrote:
First full version 7090 and then a version was ported
tot he PDP-1
that was less powerful. This is straight from the LISP manual on
site.
Which LISP manual is that?
The LISP I Programmer's Manual from 1960 says IBM 704. It also says "a
version of LISP I is being prepared for the IBM 709".
http://bitsavers.org/pdf/mit/rle_lisp/LISP_I_Programmers_Manual_Mar60.pdf
12:36 p.m.
Hello List -That jives with a conversation I had with John McCarthy before he died.He said
that he and friends began the LISP 1.5 (really 1.0) implementation on the IBM 709 - and we
both agreed that the idea of LISP running in an enormous pile of vacuum tubes was and is
amazing:)Jack-----------------------------------------------------Jack HarperSecure
Outcomes Inc2942 Evergreen ParkwaySuite 300Evergreen, Colorado 80439303.670.8375
Officewww.secureoutcomesinc.com for Product Info.
-------- Original message --------From: Lars Brinkhoff via cctalk <cctalk at
classiccmp.org> Date: 10/2/19 07:42 (GMT-07:00) To: Bill Degnan via cctech <cctech
at classiccmp.org> Cc: Bill Degnan <billdegnan at gmail.com> Subject: Re: LISP
implementations on small machines Bill Degnan wrote:> First full version 7090 and then
a version was ported tot he PDP-1> that was less powerful.? This is straight from the
LISP manual on> site.Which LISP manual is that?The LISP I Programmer's Manual from
1960 says IBM 704.? It also says "aversion of LISP I is being prepared for the IBM
709".http://bitsavers.org/pdf/mit/rle_lisp/LISP_I_Programmers_Manual_M…
12:36 p.m.
Hello List -That jives with a conversation I had with John McCarthy before he died.He said
that he and friends began the LISP 1.5 (really 1.0) implementation on the IBM 709 - and we
both agreed that the idea of LISP running in an enormous pile of vacuum tubes was and is
amazing:)Jack-----------------------------------------------------Jack HarperSecure
Outcomes Inc2942 Evergreen ParkwaySuite 300Evergreen, Colorado 80439303.670.8375
Officewww.secureoutcomesinc.com for Product Info.
-------- Original message --------From: Lars Brinkhoff via cctalk <cctalk at
classiccmp.org> Date: 10/2/19 07:42 (GMT-07:00) To: Bill Degnan via cctech <cctech
at classiccmp.org> Cc: Bill Degnan <billdegnan at gmail.com> Subject: Re: LISP
implementations on small machines Bill Degnan wrote:> First full version 7090 and then
a version was ported tot he PDP-1> that was less powerful.? This is straight from the
LISP manual on> site.Which LISP manual is that?The LISP I Programmer's Manual from
1960 says IBM 704.? It also says "aversion of LISP I is being prepared for the IBM
709".http://bitsavers.org/pdf/mit/rle_lisp/LISP_I_Programmers_Manual_M…
12:02 p.m.
From: Mark Kahrs
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 7:24 PM
The first implementation was done for the 7090 by
McCarthy (hence CAR and
CDR --- Contents of Address Register and Contents of Decrement Register).
In the 70x series of IBM scientific systems (704, 709, 7040, 7090, 7044, 7094),
the word "register" referred to memory locations rather than to the accumulator
or multiplier/quotient. Each memory register was 36 bits long, and could be
treated as 4 fields: A 15 bit address, a 15 bit decrement, a 3 bit tag, and a
3 bit index selector.
In the earliest implementation of LISP, there were 4 functions which returned
the different parts of a register: CAR, CDR, CTR, and CIR. These were
abbreviations for "Contents of the {Address, Decrement, Tag, Index} PART OF THE
Register", not "Contents of the {Address, Decrement} Register" as is so
often
misstated.
Rich
NB: Information from a talk given on the history of Lisp by Herbert Stoyan at
the 1984 ACM Conference on Lisp and Functional Programming Languages, and later
verified by personal inspection of the code.
3 Oct
3 Oct
5:35 a.m.
Thanks for that bit of historical information. Things always make more sense in context.
When I learned lisp on a B6700 it was hard to understand and harder to program. With this
bit of context lisp now makes a lot more sense, and looking back if I knew this then I?m
sure I would have grasped the language much more quickly.
David
On Oct 2, 2019, at 12:02 PM, Rich Alderson via cctech
<cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
From: Mark Kahrs
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 7:24 PM
The first implementation was done for the 7090 by
McCarthy (hence CAR and
CDR --- Contents of Address Register and Contents of Decrement Register).
In the 70x series of IBM scientific systems (704, 709, 7040, 7090, 7044, 7094),
the word "register" referred to memory locations rather than to the
accumulator
or multiplier/quotient. Each memory register was 36 bits long, and could be
treated as 4 fields: A 15 bit address, a 15 bit decrement, a 3 bit tag, and a
3 bit index selector.
In the earliest implementation of LISP, there were 4 functions which returned
the different parts of a register: CAR, CDR, CTR, and CIR. These were
abbreviations for "Contents of the {Address, Decrement, Tag, Index} PART OF THE
Register", not "Contents of the {Address, Decrement} Register" as is so
often
misstated.
Rich
NB: Information from a talk given on the history of Lisp by Herbert Stoyan at
the 1984 ACM Conference on Lisp and Functional Programming Languages, and later
verified by personal inspection of the code. 
6:50 a.m.
On Oct 2, 2019, at 3:02 PM, Rich Alderson via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
From: Mark Kahrs
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 7:24 PM
While we now think of "register" as a specific bit of hardware distinct from
memory, that isn't necessary. The term makes perfect sense as a small set of storage
elements that are treated differently than main memory in the instruction set. For
example, the IBM 1620 has no registers (the ISA only references main memory). Some early
machines, the PDP-6 I believe is an example, have "registers" in the ISA but
they actually correspond to specific parts of main memory. Ditto the Philips PR-8000,
which has 8 sets of 8 registers (one set for each interrupt priority level) actually
implemented in locations 0-63 of main memory.
In a 1948 computer architecture course. Adriaan van Wijngaarden referred to "fast
memory" for what we now call registers; that document in effect is an early
discussion of memory hierarchy.
paul
The first implementation was done for the 7090 by
McCarthy (hence CAR and
CDR --- Contents of Address Register and Contents of Decrement Register).
In the 70x series of IBM scientific systems (704, 709, 7040, 7090, 7044, 7094),
the word "register" referred to memory locations rather than to the
accumulator
or multiplier/quotient. Each memory register was 36 bits long, and could be
treated as 4 fields: A 15 bit address, a 15 bit decrement, a 3 bit tag, and a
3 bit index selector. 
7:39 a.m.
ons 2019-10-02 klockan 19:02 +0000 skrev Rich Alderson via cctalk:
From: Mark Kahrs
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 7:24 PM
It seems that simh has prebuilt ibm 70xx machines with lisp installed.
https://simh.trailing-edge.narkive.com/WiVs5570/release-of-a-set-of-simulat…
The first implementation was done for the 7090 by
McCarthy (hence
CAR and
CDR --- Contents of Address Register and Contents of Decrement
Register).
In the 70x series of IBM scientific systems (704, 709, 7040, 7090,
7044, 7094),
the word "register" referred to memory locations rather than to the
accumulator
or multiplier/quotient. Each memory register was 36 bits long, and
could be
treated as 4 fields: A 15 bit address, a 15 bit decrement, a 3 bit
tag, and a
3 bit index selector.
In the earliest implementation of LISP, there were 4 functions which
returned
the different parts of a register: CAR, CDR, CTR, and CIR. These
were
abbreviations for "Contents of the {Address, Decrement, Tag, Index}
PART OF THE
Register", not "Contents of the {Address, Decrement} Register" as is
so often
misstated.
Rich
NB: Information from a talk given on the history of Lisp by Herbert
Stoyan at
the 1984 ACM Conference on Lisp and Functional Programming Languages,
and later
verified by personal inspection of the code. 
11:56 p.m.
On 10/1/2019 7:23 PM, Mark Kahrs via cctalk wrote:
The first implementation was done for the 7090 by
McCarthy (hence CAR and
CDR --- Contents of Address Register and Contents of Decrement Register).
If you want to see a tiny implementation then look for the PDP-1
implementation done by L Peter Deutsch. There's a book chapter and then I
found this report:
http://s3data.computerhistory.org/pdp-1/DEC.pdp_1.1964.102650371.pdf
When I was at
UMR a couple of students wrote a Lisp interpreter for the
Micro 1600 running the 1621 firmware.? It had the missing feature that
there was no garbage collect, and would die when the cells storage ran
out.? Very quickly.
They then added paging to a 5mb dynex and used the entire space of the
bottom platter, at 2.5mb and ran a lot longer with paging.
And they then added a firmware assist to do a couple of operations if
they were recognized, and it supposedly ran a bit faster, but with disk
paging, hard to tell.
I could try to dig up the source if anyone is interested and share it.?
I've got an emulator which runs the OS and firmware for the 1621 and
it's on my list of programs to resurrect and get running.
FWIW, I had soaked up enough lisp from this and a version which ran in
batch on the 360/50 MVT system that I knew it well enough to be
dangerous on the Multics system at the University of Southwestern
Louisiana, Lafayette, LA
It of course ran maclisp.? The main thing that was fun to play with
there was macsyma.? When Professor Jerry Saltzer visited the site was
grateful to visit with him as he had a lot to do with the system and
macsyma in particular.
Forget Eliza and such, if you had macsyma in 1975, you'd swear you were
talking to something out of this world.? I also remembered enough of my
math to run it thru a lot of problems and it was able to figure them
out, even with some trickery.
There is a version for the Multics Emulator, but I don't think the
version I could have saved in 1975 was saved.? I hope to get that
running at some point (most likely after someone else gets it running,
as macsyma isn't a program for the faint hearted to try to get running).
thanks
Jim
1906
days inactive
1908
days old
10 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
billdegnan＠gmail.com -
david＠kdbarto.org -
harper＠secureoutcomes-hq.com -
jwsmail＠jwsss.com -
lars＠nocrew.org -
mark.kahrs＠gmail.com -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
RichA＠livingcomputers.org -
stefan.skoglund＠agj.net