15 May
2001
15 May
'01
2:45 a.m.
When where the first 74xx ICs released / designed ?
Especialy when where complex chips like 744x, 748x or
74181 first mentioned/available ?
This may be a stuipd question, but I couldn't find any
information ... so all I have is my personal guess (~1970)
and the oldesd TTL book Philip Belben could find (1972).
Anyone more informed ?
Gruss
H.
--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/
15 May
15 May
3:31 a.m.
Hans Franke wrote:
When where the first 74xx ICs released / designed ?
Especialy when where complex chips like 744x, 748x or
74181 first mentioned/available ?
This may be a stuipd question, but I couldn't find any
information ... so all I have is my personal guess (~1970)
and the oldesd TTL book Philip Belben could find (1972).
Anyone more informed ?
Gruss
H.
--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/
Hello Hans!
DEC introduced their M-series modules that used TTL IC's in 1967. So, I
would say they must have been around prior to that in order for DEC to
have designed the modules around them.
--
Doug Carman
pdp11(a)bellsouth.net
4:42 a.m.
On Tue, 15 May 2001 13:45:06 +0200 Hans Franke
<Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de> wrote:
When where the first 74xx ICs released / designed ?
Late 1960s/Early 1970s, I think.
Especialy when where complex chips like 744x, 748x or
74181 first mentioned/available ?
Probably early 1970s.
The story I've heard is that Texas Instruments wanted to
build a computer for oilfield instrumentation (hence the
name of the company). They built it by first designing a
range of SSI (Small-Scale Integration) gates as TTL chips,
then building the system with them. The chips were sold as
the 7400, 7401, and so on, and the rest is history!
I have a 74 TTL design guide at home, so I'll check it too.
--
John Honniball
Email: John.Honniball(a)uwe.ac.uk
University of the West of England
5:07 a.m.
On Tue, 15 May 2001 13:45:06 +0200 Hans Franke
<Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de> wrote:
When where the first 74xx ICs released / designed
?
Late 1960s/Early 1970s, I think. Especialy when
where complex chips like 744x, 748x or
74181 first mentioned/available ?
Probably early 1970s. The story I've heard is that Texas Instruments
wanted to
build a computer for oilfield instrumentation (hence the
name of the company). They built it by first designing a
range of SSI (Small-Scale Integration) gates as TTL chips,
then building the system with them. The chips were sold as
the 7400, 7401, and so on, and the rest is history!
:))
I have a 74 TTL design guide at home, so I'll
check it too.
The oldest datasheet I could find says Dec 1972 for the 74S181
Gruss
H.
--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/
9:10 a.m.
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3:41 p.m.
That device is in my old (dated 1972) TI TTL databook, so I'd guess it was
around before then.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Duell" <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: 74xx orgin
The oldest datasheet I could find says Dec 1972 for the 74S181
I would put it a little earlier than that, since the PDP11/45 uses that
ALU chip, and IIRC it came out in the middle of 1972.
-tony
8:05 a.m.
The story I've heard is that Texas Instruments
wanted to
build a computer for oilfield instrumentation (hence the
name of the company). They built it by first designing a
range of SSI (Small-Scale Integration) gates as TTL chips,
then building the system with them. The chips were sold as
the 7400, 7401, and so on, and the rest is history!
As a former employee of TI, I'm familiar with the history.
TI actually started as Geophysical Services (GSI). Later
the company changed the name to Coronado, with GSI as a
subsidiary. Later some employees bought GSI from Coronado
and established themselves as a separate company. In the
early fifties ('50 or '51, I think) they changed the name
to Texas Instruments and GSI again became a subsidiary.
So the oilfield instrumentation was part of the business
at the time, but not the driving force (GSI and Semi
were separate). TI was living high on the silicon
transistor at the time and the research group was
always busy looking at ways to make transistors
smaller. Oilfield instrumentation didn't have to
be small; it usually was carried around in trucks.
The military and space business was the real driving
force in making things smaller.
--
Eric Dittman
dittman(a)dittman.net
8:38 a.m.
New subject: TI orgin
At 12:05 PM 5/15/01 -0500, you wrote:
As a former employee of TI, I'm familiar with the
history.
Didn't the beginnings of TI have something to do with funding from IBM as a
result of government anti-trust action against IBM?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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P.O. Box 3365 Spring Hill Florida 34611-3365
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Computer & Video Game Garage Sale
11:11 a.m.
New subject: TI orgin
As a former
employee of TI, I'm familiar with the history.
Didn't the beginnings of TI have something to do with funding from IBM as a
result of government anti-trust action against IBM? 
11:31 a.m.
New subject: TI orgin
On Tue, 15 May 2001, Gene Ehrich wrote:
At 12:05 PM 5/15/01 -0500, you wrote:
"May 16.[1930] Founded as "Geophysical Service," first independent
contractor specializing in reflection seismograph method of
exploration. Founders J. Clarence "Doc" Karcher and Eugene
McDermott. Cecil Green and Erik Jonsson among first employess. Estimated
revenues $300,000."
The name was changed to Texas Instruments Incorporated in 1951, by which
time the company was heavily into electronics. Geophysical Services became
a wholly-owned subsidiary.
IBM willingly funding competitors? (TI did build one big computer, the
ASC) Not likely. They did have to give up IP claims to Control
Data. Don't recall offhand if any money changed hands there. That case has
been discussed here before though. It should be in the archives.
jbdigriz
As a former employee of TI, I'm familiar with
the history.
Didn't the beginnings of TI have something to do with funding from IBM as a
result of government anti-trust action against IBM?
5:46 a.m.
On Tue, 15 May 2001, Hans Franke wrote:
When where the first 74xx ICs released / designed ?
Especialy when where complex chips like 744x, 748x or
74181 first mentioned/available ?
This may be a stuipd question, but I couldn't find any
information ... so all I have is my personal guess (~1970)
and the oldesd TTL book Philip Belben could find (1972).
Anyone more informed ?
I think you guys are going to have to use DTL. If TTL was even around in
1970, it was probably pretty expensive at first.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
7:14 a.m.
> When where the first 74xx ICs released / designed
?
> Especialy when where complex chips like 744x, 748x or
> 74181 first mentioned/available ?
> This may be a stuipd question, but I couldn't
find any
> information ... so all I have is my personal guess (~1970)
> and the oldesd TTL book Philip Belben could find (1972).
> Anyone more informed ?
I think you guys are going to have to use DTL. If TTL
was even around in
1970, it was probably pretty expensive at first.
You know why we need this info ...(big secret until some
day)... and in this context to expensive wasn't a real
issue.
Ciao
Hans
--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/
9:12 a.m.
On Tue, 15 May 2001, Hans Franke wrote:
You know why we need this info ...(big secret until
some day)... and
Of course :)
in this context to expensive wasn't a real issue.
I thought affordability was an issue?
Anyway, maybe by the time you get here in September I will have my data
books sufficiently organized so you can look through them. I do have data
books back into the 60s, though not sure if they are TTL or even DTL.
Also, some of the electronics surplus stores around here have data book
libraries that may go back that far.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
8:09 a.m.
--- Sellam Ismail <foo(a)siconic.com> wrote:
Subject: What is a PDP-8/L?
Date of introduction: 1968 (Announced before August '68)
Date of withdrawal: 1971.
Total production run: 3902.
Price: $8,500
... and...
Subject: What is a PDP-8/I?
Date of introduction: 1968 (Announced before December '67)
Date of withdrawal: 1971.
Total production run: 3698.
Technology: DEC M-series logic modules, called M-series flip-chips
as the term flip-chip was applied to the module format instead
of to DEC's hybrid integrated circuits. M-series modules used
TTL chips, with a +5 volt supply, packaged on the same board
format used with the original flip-chips, but with double-sided
card-edge connectors (36 contacts instead of 18). Modules were
limited to typically 4 SSI ICs each. The M113, a typical
M-series module, had 10 2-input nand gates and cost $23 in 1967
(the price fell to $18 in 1970). Wire-wrapped backplanes used
30-gauge wire.
So here is evidence that in 1967, DEC was shipping modules with TTL parts
on them, and that the cost was probably a small number of dollars per part,
certainly less than $10/chip for some of the simpler ones. The M113 has
three 7400 chips on it, does it not? Based on the price of $23, I'd expect
that the IC were a few dollars each and the rest of the price was for
the PCB and assembly, testing, storage, shipping, profit, etc.
Does $2-$3 each count as expensive?
-ethan
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On Tue, 15 May 2001, Hans Franke wrote:
> When where the first 74xx ICs released / designed ?
First? Don't know. As has been mentioned, the M series of FLIP-CHIPs
from DEC used TTL (7400, 7404, 7474, etc.) Mine have
date codes in the
range of 1968-1969. I don't recall if there are any in my
machines with
codes prior to 1968. I would have to look.
> Especialy when where complex chips like 744x,
748x or
> 74181 first mentioned/available ?
No idea. If I had to guess, I'd say 1970.
> ... so all I have is my personal guess (~1970)
Ah! Good guess.
Anyone more
informed ?
I think you guys are going to have to use DTL. If TTL was even around in
1970, it was probably pretty expensive at first. 
9:54 a.m.
If guess Fairchild was the company that first made the 54/74xx series
The 54xx had mil. specs the 74xx had consumer specs.
The first generation was SSI (Small Scale Intergration) like gates and
flipflops, Later came MSI, like decoders, adders, counters, and even
Alu's (74181)
Over time the series also came in a variety of technologies:
74xx (Regular TTL)
74Hxx (High Power ... faster but consumed a lot of amps)
74Lxx (Low power but slow... and not very low-power by todays norm)
74LSxx (Low power Scotty ... propably the best! )
Subsequently followed up by the "modern" CMOS types like
74HCTxx or 74ALSxx etc
They were "second sourced" by companies like National Semiconductor,
Motorola, Texas Instruments, Siemens, Signetics et al.
Before that DTL was in vogue, like the 90xx and 93xx series
And even before that RTL was the buzzword.
Sipke de Wal
---------------------------------------------------
http://xgistor.ath.cx
---------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Hans Franke <Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 1:45 PM
Subject: 74xx orgin
When where the first 74xx ICs released / designed ?
Especialy when where complex chips like 744x, 748x or
74181 first mentioned/available ?
This may be a stuipd question, but I couldn't find any
information ... so all I have is my personal guess (~1970)
and the oldesd TTL book Philip Belben could find (1972).
Anyone more informed ?
Gruss
H.
--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/
8475
days inactive
8475
days old
14 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
dittman＠dittman.net -
edick＠idcomm.com -
ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com -
foo＠siconic.com -
gene＠ehrich.com -
Hans.Franke＠mch20.sbs.de -
jbdigriz＠dragonsweb.org -
John.Honniball＠uwe.ac.uk -
pdp11＠bellsouth.net -
sipke＠wxs.nl