21 Feb
2003
21 Feb
'03
1:14 p.m.
No, I'm one of "those people" who sees
no logic
whatsoever in going to war with Iraq. I don't want
to say that those in favor are stupid, but those in
favor are dumb.
What's great about people like you Sellam, is that
every time you think something like this, you get to
have egg on your face when it turns out wonderful.
I remember all the doom and gloom and naysayers, and
the predictions of thousands of bodybags for the
Afghanistan War on Terrorism a year and half ago.
People thought that those in favor of that were dumb
too...
I am not someone who loves war. But, I am someone who
believes in backing up rules, laws, and civilization
with penalties when the rules are broken or in the
case of Hussein, not only broken but flouted.
It will be over fairly quickly once it starts, and as
before (in 1981) it will be a rout.
But, this time we will take Hussein out of power and
set the people in Iraq free. Iran is probably next on
the President's list, and then North Korea. Unless Kim
Jong Il pushes to be the next in line and won't wait
his turn.
It's so wasteful for people like Hussein, Il and the
leadership in Iran to do the kind of things that cause
this, rather than dedicating themselves to providing
the best possible lives and economy for their people.
Since we still have people here in the U.S. who think
ideaology is more important than doing the right
thing, I'm not surprised there are similar people
elsewhere...
I hope the human race outgrows that someday...
It's ok for you to think people in favor of taking
Hussein out are stupid.... It only means you don't
have a clue what it's all about...
Hopefully getting egg on your face a few more times
will make you tired of being wrong...
Al
21 Feb
21 Feb
1:30 p.m.
New subject: Sarcasm
I can no longer tell which of the political posts are serious,
and which are sarcasm.
Maybe THAT is when it's time to stop?
2:26 p.m.
New subject: Sarcasm
On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
I can no longer tell which of the political posts are
serious,
and which are sarcasm.
Maybe THAT is when it's time to stop?
All my messages are seriously sarcastic ;)
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
22 Feb
22 Feb
3:29 a.m.
New subject: Sarcasm
Mine, too.
In case nobody noticed.....
: )
- Matt
At 08:18 PM 2/21/2003 -0800, you wrote:
On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
Matthew Sell
Programmer
On Time Support, Inc.
www.ontimesupport.com
(281) 296-6066
Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST!
http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.htmlhtml.
"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler
Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...
I can no longer tell which of the political posts
are serious,
and which are sarcasm.
Maybe THAT is when it's time to stop?
All my messages are seriously sarcastic ;)
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at
www.VintageTech.com * 
12:54 p.m.
New subject: Sarcasm
I didn't. I simply thought you were the typical heavily
indoctrinated military person. Necessary if you are to
have blindly obedient soldiers. I had a brother who wound
up a major following his participation in the 2nd WW and
mellowed out as he got older and a nephew-in-law who
wound up a colonel and still hasn't recovered. After that
conditioning it's difficult to regain independent thought.
Lawrence
On 22 Feb 2003, , Matthew Sell wrote:
Mine, too.
In case nobody noticed.....
: )
- Matt
At 08:18 PM 2/21/2003 -0800, you wrote:
lgwalker@ mts.net
On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
Matthew Sell
Programmer
On Time Support, Inc.
www.ontimesupport.com
(281) 296-6066
Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST!
http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.htmlhtml.
"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler
Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... I can no longer tell which of the political posts
are
serious, and which are sarcasm.
Maybe THAT is when it's time to stop?
All my messages are seriously sarcastic ;)
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer
Festival
-----------------------------------------------------------
------------------- International Man of Intrigue and
Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at
www.VintageTech.com *
21 Feb
21 Feb
2:44 p.m.
On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Al Hartman wrote:
What's great about people like you Sellam, is that
every time you think
something like this, you get to have egg on your face when it turns out
wonderful.
What's great about you, Al, is that you provide proof that Neanerthal man
still walks among us.
I am not someone who loves war. But, I am someone who
believes in
backing up rules, laws, and civilization with penalties when the rules
are broken or in the case of Hussein, not only broken but flouted.
You're right! The next target should be The White House. Down with
tyrannical rulers, proliferators of weapons of mass destruction, and
terrorists!
It will be over fairly quickly once it starts, and as
before (in 1981)
it will be a rout.
I think in 1981 the CIA was supplying Osama Bin Laden with training and
weapons.
But, this time we will take Hussein out of power and
set the people in
Iraq free. Iran is probably next on the President's list, and then North
Korea. Unless Kim Jong Il pushes to be the next in line and won't wait
his turn.
Yes, those evil Iranians. We still need to get back at them for ousting
the puppet leader we installed there. Nevermind that almost every Iranian
you talk to loves the West, dresses in Western style, speaks nearly fluent
English, and would really like to get rid of their religious leadership
(but they certainly do NOT want the US to do it).
It's so wasteful for people like Hussein, Il and
the leadership in Iran
to do the kind of things that cause this, rather than dedicating
themselves to providing the best possible lives and economy for their
people.
Yeah, it's too bad. Oh by the way, I saw a guy living under a freeway
off-ramp the other day. It's a good thing our own government looks after
our best interest rather than investing our tax revenue into military
weaponry and programs to further enrich a small group of elites.
Since we still have people here in the U.S. who think
ideaology is more
important than doing the right thing, I'm not surprised there are
similar people elsewhere...
Al, this is senseless. You keep throwing this lame shit out at me and
it's just so obvious that to make a point of it is meaningless. I could
sit here forever ridiculing you but I now realize the folly of it. You're
an idiot and are incapable of debating beyond the 3rd grade level. Sorry
to be blunt but it's arguably a fact.
I hope the human race outgrows that someday...
I hope the human race is rid of the genes that produced you and your ilk
someday (I know, fat chance).
Hopefully getting egg on your face a few more times
will make you tired
of being wrong...
Yes, I'm tired of being wrong. You win, Al! Everything I have ever
spoken in my entire existence has been a fraud, and you've exposed me. I
shall slink away in shame, never to be heard from again.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
2:54 p.m.
On Fri, 2003-02-21 at 23:36, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Al Hartman wrote:
This entire thread reminds me of a quote I once read -
"Arguing on the Internet is like the Special Olympics. Even if you win
you are still retarded."
I'd like to see a lot more about classic computers and a whole lot less
politics/religion/other-topics-having-nothing-to-do-with-classic-computers.
To make this on topic, I've got the PDP-11/83 up and running under
2.11BSD now, with a new-from-ebay DEQNA providing the network interface.
--
Christopher L McNabb
Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb(a)4mcnabb.net
Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N
GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD
What's great about people like you Sellam, is
that every time you think
something like this, you get to have egg on your face when it turns out
wonderful.
What's great about you, Al, is that you provide proof that Neanerthal man
still walks among us.
11:30 p.m.
On 21 Feb 2003, Christopher McNabb wrote:
This entire thread reminds me of a quote I once read
-
"Arguing on the Internet is like the Special Olympics. Even if you win
you are still retarded."
I agree entirely. I have a certain compulsion to reply to idiotic
statements that can only be described as such. I will seek help.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
22 Feb
22 Feb
12:52 a.m.
On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Al Hartman wrote:
> What's great about people like you Sellam, is
that
> every time you think something like this, you get to
> have egg on your face when it turns out wonderful.
What's great about you, Al, is that you provide
proof
that Neanerthal man still walks among us.
My vote is for sellam to shut, no, Grow Up.
Acting like a 12 year old is seriously not impressing me.
Every time you strike out against someone on the list you
tend to leave me believing that the other guy was probably
right and you've 'lost it'. Same for R.E. BTW, it's not you,
it's not your issues, its YOUR BEHAVIOR, idiot!
John A.
Al, this is senseless. You keep throwing this lame
shit
out at me and it's just so obvious that to make a point
of it is meaningless.
right
21 Feb
21 Feb
3:38 p.m.
Sounds familiar. Another Axis like the one headed by
Hitler only this time we're on the wrong side. The 3rd
Reich also wanted to save us from ourselves.
And you like your brainwashers, put a hypocritical spin
on this thrust for world power by saying you're against war
lgwalker@ mts.net
from one side of your mouth, while lining up a hit list
of
future victims of imperial might. Whose rules, whose laws,
what sort of civilization. I too hope the human race will
outgrow this kind of stupidity some day.
People like you are not worth bothering with. Go kick
your dog.
Lawrence
On 21 Feb 2003, , Al Hartman wrote:
No, I'm
one of "those people" who sees no logic
whatsoever in going to war with Iraq. I don't want
to say that those in favor are stupid, but those in
favor are dumb.
What's great about people like you Sellam, is that
every time you think something like this, you get to
have egg on your face when it turns out wonderful.
I remember all the doom and gloom and naysayers, and
the predictions of thousands of bodybags for the
Afghanistan War on Terrorism a year and half ago.
People thought that those in favor of that were dumb
too...
I am not someone who loves war. But, I am someone who
believes in backing up rules, laws, and civilization
with penalties when the rules are broken or in the
case of Hussein, not only broken but flouted.
It will be over fairly quickly once it starts, and as
before (in 1981) it will be a rout.
But, this time we will take Hussein out of power and
set the people in Iraq free. Iran is probably next on
the President's list, and then North Korea. Unless Kim
Jong Il pushes to be the next in line and won't wait
his turn.
It's so wasteful for people like Hussein, Il and the
leadership in Iran to do the kind of things that cause
this, rather than dedicating themselves to providing
the best possible lives and economy for their people.
Since we still have people here in the U.S. who think
ideaology is more important than doing the right
thing, I'm not surprised there are similar people
elsewhere...
I hope the human race outgrows that someday...
It's ok for you to think people in favor of taking
Hussein out are stupid.... It only means you don't
have a clue what it's all about...
Hopefully getting egg on your face a few more times
will make you tired of being wrong...
Al 
4:01 p.m.
Al Hartman wrote:
But, this time we will take Hussein out of power and
set the people in Iraq free.
Yup, set 'em free just like we do everywhere...
We'll just mention the western hemisphere, but it really is a global
tendency we have. Setting people free...
A history of U.S. intervention in Latin America and the Caribbean
1823: The Monroe Doctrine declares Latin America to be in the United
States "sphere of influence."
1846: The U.S. provokes war with Mexico and acquires half of its
territory, including Texas and California.
1855: U.S. adventurer William Walker invades Nicaragua with a private
army, declares himself president, and rules for 2 years.
1898: The U.S. declares war on Spain and as a result annexes Guam,
Puerto Rico, the Philippines and Hawaii.
1901 : With the Platt Amendment, the U.S. declares its unilateral right
to intervene in Cuban affairs.
1903: The U.S. encourages Panama's independence from Colombia in order
to acquire the Panama Canal rights.
1905: The Roosevelt Corollary to the Monroe Doctrine declares the U.S.
to be the policeman of the Caribbean; the Dominican Republic is placed
under a customs receivership.
1912 : U.S. Marines invade Nicaragua and occupy the country almost
continuously until 1933.
1914: Mexican refusal to salute the U.S. flag provokes the shelling of
Veracruz by a U.S. battleship and the seizure of parts of the city by
U.S. Marines.
1933: U.S. Marines finally leave Nicaragua, but are replaced by a
well-trained and well-armed National Guard under the control of
Anastasio Somoza.
1954: The CIA engineers the overthrow of the democratically-elected
government of Guatemala; 30 years of military dictatorship, repression,
and violence follow.
1961 : The U.S. attempts to overthrow the revolutionary Cuban government
at the Bay of Pigs.
1965: Johnson sends 22,000 troops to the Dominican Republic to combat
the constitutional forces trying to regain power.
1973: The CIA helps overthrow the democratic government of Allende in
Chile in favor of a bloody dictatorship.
1981: The Reagan Administration begins the contra war against Nicaraguan
civilians.
1983: The U.S. invades Grenada to overthrow a popular government.
1989: The U.S. invades Panama to arrest accused drug dealer Manual Noriega.
1990 : The U.S. intervenes in the Nicaraguan election process through
covert and overt means.
<http://www.cc.ku.edu/cwis/organizations/las/interven.html>
Free at last. Free at last. Thank God Almighty, I'm free at last.
--
If there is light in the soul, there will be beauty in the person.
If there is beauty in the person, there will be harmony in the house.
If there is harmony in the house, there will be order in the nation.
If there is order in the nation, there will be peace in the world.
~ Chinese Proverb ~
4:31 p.m.
Jim Arnott wrote:
Yup, set 'em free just like we do everywhere...
We'll just mention the western hemisphere, but it really is a global
tendency we have. Setting people free...
A history of U.S. intervention in Latin America and the Caribbean
So your basically an isolationist, then? Sounds like many of the people
here are.
I don't know much about many of items on your list, However.
1961 : The U.S. attempts to overthrow the
revolutionary Cuban government
at the Bay of Pigs.
This ones interests me...... are you saying Cuba is better off, now that
Castro is in power, and we shouldn't have tried to prevent that?
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA
8:15 p.m.
On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Chad Fernandez wrote:
So your basically an isolationist, then? Sounds like
many of the people
here are.
If by isolationist you mean that I believe we shouldn't be projecting our
collective penis into everyone else's affairs, then yes, I am an
isolationist. However, I don't believe that's the proper meaning of the
term.
I don't know much about many of items on your
list, However.
We shouldn't have tried to prevent it because it's none of our business.
I think Cuba is worse off with Castro, but it just simply isn't our place
to change that. That is for the people of Cuba to do.
Peace... Sridhar
1961 : The U.S. attempts to overthrow the
revolutionary Cuban
government at the Bay of Pigs.
This ones interests me...... are you saying Cuba is better off, now that
Castro is in power, and we shouldn't have tried to prevent that?
22 Feb
22 Feb
5:10 a.m.
On Sat, 22 Feb 2003 vance(a)neurotica.com wrote:
Actually, the only reason Cuba is worse off with Castro is because the US
continues to economically sanction Cuba because our government doesn't
agree with Castro's politics.
I'm not saying everything the US does is stupid, but a lot of the things
that the US does is stupid.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
This ones
interests me...... are you saying Cuba is better off, now that
Castro is in power, and we shouldn't have tried to prevent that?
We shouldn't have tried to prevent it because it's none of our business.
I think Cuba is worse off with Castro, but it just simply isn't our place
to change that. That is for the people of Cuba to do. 
6:19 a.m.
It was thus said that the Great Chad Fernandez once stated:
After Castro diposed Batista he then turned to the US for help and
recognition. But since the US at the time suported Batista's regime
(dictator that he was) and Castro's little coop pissed off monied interests
here in the states, the official US response was to ignore him.
So he turned to the only other global power at the time ...
-spc (We also promised a free Viet-Nam to Ho Chi Mihn, but helped France
keep control after World War II, for all the good *that* did us.
Sometimes I think our government doesn't learn from its own
mistakes ... )
1961 : The U.S. attempts to overthrow the
revolutionary Cuban government
at the Bay of Pigs.
This ones interests me...... are you saying Cuba is better off, now that
Castro is in power, and we shouldn't have tried to prevent that?
6:37 a.m.
It was thus said that the Great Chad Fernandez once stated:
The Bay of Pigs was WAY too late to be interpreted as "prevent that".
It was an invasion LONG after Castro was firmly in power.
It becomes an issue of whether or not it is legitimate to invade and
overthrow (or conquer) countries that are ruled by leaders that we don't
approve of.
1961 : The
U.S. attempts to overthrow the revolutionary Cuban government
at the Bay of Pigs.
This ones interests me...... are you saying Cuba is better
off, now that
Castro is in power, and we shouldn't have tried to prevent that?
12:54 p.m.
Well, I was trying to be good and not pique the ire of
my neighbors to the south in my mother's and wife's
birthplace, but I find I can't hold my peace at the incredible
amount of BS, most of which is parroting the Bush
administrations lies and more damnedable lies.
The list you quote from is of course only a partial list. It
doesn't mention the US role in the genecide of tens of
thousands of Guatamalan indigenous people in the 80s,
earlier massacres in northern Brazil to pave the way for
Rockefeller oil explorations, it's establishment of the
infamous "School of the Americas" which trained most of
S.A.'s secret police and heads of death squads, it's long
time support of the viscious Papa Doc Duvalier of Haiti,
and later intrigues against it's democratically elected
leader, it's recent role in supporting the aborted coup
against Venezuela's Chavez which was reversed by
peoples outrage several days later, and a multitude of
others designed to maintain US hegemony (the Monroe
Doctrine) over Latin America for the benefit of United Fruit
and the US banks.
It gets much worse in other parts of the world including
such things as US support of the Suharto regimes
takeover in Indonesia which resulted in the genocide
of 500,000 Javanese in a period of a couple of months.
The list of US client states is like a whos-who of the
most tyrannical regimes in world history.
I've found the american people on the other hand, among
the friendliest and warmest I know, despite the occasional
"Ugly American" big bucks lout but like most others
shake my head at their incredible political naivety.
I was no big fan of Eisenhauer (also a Republican) but
at least he was honest about why the US was playing a
military role in the far east, and on his departure warned
the US peoples about the growing danger of the US
Military-Industrial complex.
Lawrence
On 21 Feb 2003, , Jim Arnott wrote:
Al Hartman wrote:
lgwalker@ mts.net
But, this time we will take Hussein out of power
and
set the people in Iraq free.
Yup, set 'em free just like we do everywhere...
We'll just mention the western hemisphere, but it really is
a global tendency we have. Setting people free...
A history of U.S. intervention in Latin America and the
Caribbean
1823: The Monroe Doctrine declares Latin America to be in
the United States "sphere of influence."
1846: The U.S. provokes war with Mexico and acquires half of
its territory, including Texas and California.
1855: U.S. adventurer William Walker invades Nicaragua with
a private army, declares himself president, and rules for 2
years.
1898: The U.S. declares war on Spain and as a result annexes
Guam, Puerto Rico, the Philippines and Hawaii.
1901 : With the Platt Amendment, the U.S. declares its
unilateral right to intervene in Cuban affairs.
1903: The U.S. encourages Panama's independence from
Colombia in order to acquire the Panama Canal rights.
1905: The Roosevelt Corollary to the Monroe Doctrine
declares the U.S. to be the policeman of the Caribbean; the
Dominican Republic is placed under a customs receivership.
1912 : U.S. Marines invade Nicaragua and occupy the country
almost continuously until 1933.
1914: Mexican refusal to salute the U.S. flag provokes the
shelling of Veracruz by a U.S. battleship and the seizure of
parts of the city by U.S. Marines.
1933: U.S. Marines finally leave Nicaragua, but are replaced
by a well-trained and well-armed National Guard under the
control of Anastasio Somoza.
1954: The CIA engineers the overthrow of the
democratically-elected government of Guatemala; 30 years of
military dictatorship, repression, and violence follow.
1961 : The U.S. attempts to overthrow the revolutionary
Cuban government at the Bay of Pigs.
1965: Johnson sends 22,000 troops to the Dominican Republic
to combat the constitutional forces trying to regain power.
1973: The CIA helps overthrow the democratic government of
Allende in Chile in favor of a bloody dictatorship.
1981: The Reagan Administration begins the contra war
against Nicaraguan civilians.
1983: The U.S. invades Grenada to overthrow a popular
government.
1989: The U.S. invades Panama to arrest accused drug dealer
Manual Noriega.
1990 : The U.S. intervenes in the Nicaraguan election
process through covert and overt means.
<http://www.cc.ku.edu/cwis/organizations/las/interven.html>
Free at last. Free at last. Thank God Almighty, I'm free at
last.
--
If there is light in the soul, there will be beauty in the
person. If there is beauty in the person, there will be
harmony in the house. If there is harmony in the house,
there will be order in the nation. If there is order in the
nation, there will be peace in the world. ~ Chinese Proverb
~
21 Feb
21 Feb
8:12 p.m.
On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Al Hartman wrote:
I am not someone who loves war. But, I am someone who
believes in
backing up rules, laws, and civilization with penalties when the rules
are broken or in the case of Hussein, not only broken but flouted.
And you are also one of the people who think America is the one who should
make the rules for everyone. *sigh* *shakes head*
This country does many things of which I am ashamed. Anyone whose told me
otherwise have never come up with any proof.
Peace... Sridhar
7927
days inactive
7928
days old
17 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
alhartman＠yahoo.com -
allain＠panix.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
cmcnabb＠4mcnabb.net -
fernande＠internet1.net -
jrasite＠eoni.com -
lgwalker＠mts.net -
msell＠ontimesupport.com -
spc＠conman.org -
vance＠neurotica.com -
vcf＠siconic.com