22 Nov
2002
22 Nov
'02
11:38 a.m.
Does anyone have an address and some contacts at the computer museum
that NASA's Ames Research centre in California is putting together? There
was an article about it in the New Scientist Magazine.
Here's the reason: some time ago a museum allegedly building in
Colorado approached me about taking away some old machines I have... I
promised them, but nothing every came of it and the storage bills are
killing me now that I am retired.
I will give them away, but I do want to do it on a wholesale basis
rather than piece by piece. Here's what I have:
Dec PDP 11/34, two RK06 drives (was working when retired). Drives are,
of course, the big washing machine ones. 11/34 is in an "executive" rack.
Dec PDP ll/23, two RL02 drives, in usual tall rack. Broken pin in
ribbon cable to the mini-drives used for booting and diagnosis. RL02s were
working when retired.
Lots of manuals and some spare platters for the drives.
Quick and Timely (Seattle company) CP/M box, S100 bus. Working when
last used.
Matrox (Montreal company) CP/M box, with old analog-digital conversion
attachment, used for scientific experiment data gathering when retired.
No documentation, but some boot floppies for the above.
Commodore 8296. Beautiful looks. Last Commodore entry into the 8-bit
business computer field. With dual floppy drive. Some software.
A few miscellaneous Atari STs. monitors, floppy drives.
Since I am in Ottawa, California might be a long way to transport the
stuff but since some of it seems rare now and the Ames Research centre
seems intent on collecting stuff, they might be willing to pay for a truck
from here.
I would appreciate advice.
ahoj
--
------
Jan George Frajkor _!_
221 Arlington Ave. --!--
Ottawa, Ontario |
Canada K1R 5S8 /^\
aa003(a)ncf.ca /^\ /^\
gfrajkor(a)ccs.carleton.ca
h: 613 563-4534 fax: 613 520-6690
22 Nov
22 Nov
12:20 p.m.
Does anyone have an address and some contacts at
the computer
museum
that NASA's Ames Research centre in California is putting together?
What you're thinking of is the Computer History Museum,
http://www.computerhistory.org/
NASA Ames isn't putting it together. They've just made space availble
(which is darned nice of them). They also just bought a new building
at 1401 Shoreline Blvd. in Mountain View, which will be their main
headquarters and exhibit facility.
Dec PDP 11/34, two RK06 drives (was working when
retired). Drives are,
of course, the big washing machine ones. 11/34 is in an "executive"
rack.
Dec PDP ll/23, two RL02 drives, in usual tall rack. Broken pin in
"Washing machine" drives would be RP06, or other RP0x or RM0x drives.
RK06 drives are rackmount drives that take cartridges. They're more
like the RL02 than a washing machine.
Since I am in Ottawa, California might be a long way
to transport the
stuff but since some of it seems rare now
I doubt that they're going to want to pay to ship PDP-11s from Ottawa;
PDP-11s aren't at all rare and they already have quite a few. But it's
worth asking.
Eric
23 Nov
23 Nov
10:37 a.m.
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28 Nov
28 Nov
10:07 a.m.
On Saturday, November 23, 2002, at 02:32 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
The RK06/RK07 would normally fit at the top of a rack.
I wasn't aware
they were ever mounted on sliders -- I would think they are too heavy
for
this.
They're also quite tall -- taller than an RL02, for example. And they
take a 2-platter cartridge (3 data surfaces, one servo surface).
Yes, they're welded into their racks, if memory serves. I ran one
for a long time; I really liked that drive. It was a big mistake to
give it away years ago. There's useful space in the bottom of the
rack...My RK611 controller (a 9-slot SU) was mounted in the bottom of
the RK07's rack, with a short drive cable going up to the drive and a
long Unibus cable coming out the back of the rack.
Oh, by the way, hi again everybody. Been busy for a while, building
a company and filling (literally FILLING) my house with
equipment...most recently a PDP11/70, a VAX 7610, a Symbolics 3645, and
my old IMSAI 8080. The first three are recent acquisitions, but the
IMSAI was my main computer when I was in high school, it has spent the
past 12 years in storage in a friend's basement...it sure was good to
see it again.
I hope everyone here has been doing well.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire "You don't have Vaseline in Canada?"
St. Petersburg, FL -Bill Bradford
29 Nov
29 Nov
10:36 a.m.
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10:57 a.m.
New subject: Sony Microfloppies question
I was trying to teledisk an old Sony Microfloppy with no success and then
noticed that the disk is different than the other early Sony microfloppies I
have. I have posted some images for illustration at
http://home.earthlink.net/~wmsmith/SonyMicroFloppies.jpg
The disk I couldn't teledisk is shown in the two top scans. Unlike the other
two disks it appears to be springless, has an oval opening, and lacks the angled
guide notch of the two later disks. When inserted into a Sony model OA-D34V-22
3 1/2 inch drive (the one that shipped with the Lisa 2 and original Mac) the
floppy will usually (but not always) insert all the way, but the shutter does
not open. This can be remedied by opening the shutter manually prior to
inserting the disk, in the position shown on the rightmost photo. It "notches"
into place and stays open due to the lack of a spring. The two-sided arrow on
the disk seems to suggest, at least to me, manual operation.
The next two scans down are of the "auto shutter" disk. This disk has a more
rectangular opening, the angled guide, and also a notch that locks the shutter
in place if the door is opened all the way. The shutter is then released by
pinching the edge of the disk, and the word "pinch" is engraved in the plastic.
The last scan is of a microfloppy for some Lisa 2 software, which appears to be
a further evolution in the design that corresponds to current disks. The
opening is rectangular, the guide is angled and the shutter is spring loaded and
will not stay open unless held.
So, my question is, does anyone know anything about this apparent design
evolution, and is there anything about the Sony springless design that would
prevent me from using Teledisk?
Thanks.
-W
2:47 p.m.
New subject: Early 3.5" diskettes (was: Sony Microfloppies question
On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote:
So, my question is, does anyone know anything about
this apparent design
evolution, and is there anything about the Sony springless design that would
prevent me from using Teledisk?
NO.
The shutter type, unless it physically prevents you from putting the disk
into the drive has no effect on reading nor writing. You should look at
the multitudinous other reasons why Teledisk can't handle it, specifically
things such as Teledisk (SOFTWARE) can not possibly read anything that is
single density (FM), GCR, or with other physical incompatibilities.
After the original NO shutter diskettes (I have some made by or for
Shugart), and real manual shutter diskettes, there were some "automatic"
ones which required you to manually open the shutter (with practice, it
can be done by rapping the corner of the disk!), but have a spring and a
latch. When you want to close the shutter, pinch the corner (where the
arrow points, and or says "pinch"), to release the latch. Later diskettes
kept the arrows that pointed to the PINCH spot, even though they no longer
had a latch.
--
Fred Cisin cisin(a)xenosoft.com
XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com
PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366
Berkeley, CA 94701-1236
4:34 p.m.
New subject: Early 3.5" diskettes (was: Sony Microfloppies question
On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote:
Well, the manual shutter type could prevent a very clueless user from using
Teledisk if said user didn't recognize that the shutter was manual and stuck the
disk in the drive without opening it first.
But, as it turned out, my real problem was that Teledisk, as it turns out,
doesn't work with XP (or Win2000 for that matter). When I switched to a Win98
machine it read the disk without any problems (once I remembered to manually
open the shutter, that is).
Thanks for the help.
-W
So, my question is, does anyone know anything
about this apparent design
evolution, and is there anything about the Sony springless design that would
prevent me from using Teledisk?
NO.
The shutter type, unless it physically prevents you from putting the disk
into the drive has no effect on reading nor writing. You should look at
the multitudinous other reasons why Teledisk can't handle it, specifically
things such as Teledisk (SOFTWARE) can not possibly read anything that is
single density (FM), GCR, or with other physical incompatibilities.
4:45 p.m.
New subject: Classic tools with "modern" OS's (was: Early 3.5" diskettes (was:
On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote:
But, as it turned out, my real problem was that
Teledisk, as it turns out,
doesn't work with XP (or Win2000 for that matter). When I switched to a Win98
machine it read the disk without any problems (once I remembered to manually
open the shutter, that is).
NT ("Not Today"), as a "security feature", tries very hard to prevent
any
program from doing disk I/O without aking permission from NT.
XenoCopy will also not work with NT.
--
Fred Cisin cisin(a)xenosoft.com
XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com
PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366
Berkeley, CA 94701-1236
30 Nov
30 Nov
7:33 a.m.
New subject: Sony Microfloppies question
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10:51 a.m.
New subject: Sony Microfloppies question
Background: HP was one of th early adapters of the Sony 3.5" floppy disk drive.
They were using it when nearly everyone else was still using 8 and 5 1/4" drives.
(for example: on the HP 110, 150, 120 and 125; their first two MS-DOS machines and their
only two CPM machines.)
Present: I've read in some of older HP manuals that some of the 3.5" floppy
disk did not open the shutter automaticly and the user was supposed to open it manually
before inserting the disk into the drive. IIRC that disk had the double headed arrow
symbol on them the same as on the top RH disk in your picture. I've never run across a
disk of that type so I don't know how the slot was constructed but I'm be willing
to bet that what you have is the same type disk. AFIK they're completely compatible
with the latter style 720k disks. I've used "normal" 720k disks in drives
that the manuals said could use the early disks and had no problems with them.
No idea why the old disk wouldn't work with Teledisk except that I still have not
been able to get Teledisk to work on any of my machines. It says that it worked and it
verifies the disk but then when I try to create a disk from the image file it says that
there is nothing there!?
Joe
At 04:58 PM 11/29/02 -0800, you wrote:
I was trying to teledisk an old Sony Microfloppy with
no success and then
noticed that the disk is different than the other early Sony microfloppies I
have. I have posted some images for illustration at
http://home.earthlink.net/~wmsmith/SonyMicroFloppies.jpg
The disk I couldn't teledisk is shown in the two top scans. Unlike the other
two disks it appears to be springless, has an oval opening, and lacks the angled
guide notch of the two later disks. When inserted into a Sony model OA-D34V-22
3 1/2 inch drive (the one that shipped with the Lisa 2 and original Mac) the
floppy will usually (but not always) insert all the way, but the shutter does
not open. This can be remedied by opening the shutter manually prior to
inserting the disk, in the position shown on the rightmost photo. It "notches"
into place and stays open due to the lack of a spring. The two-sided arrow on
the disk seems to suggest, at least to me, manual operation.
The next two scans down are of the "auto shutter" disk. This disk has a more
rectangular opening, the angled guide, and also a notch that locks the shutter
in place if the door is opened all the way. The shutter is then released by
pinching the edge of the disk, and the word "pinch" is engraved in the plastic.
The last scan is of a microfloppy for some Lisa 2 software, which appears to be
a further evolution in the design that corresponds to current disks. The
opening is rectangular, the guide is angled and the shutter is spring loaded and
will not stay open unless held.
So, my question is, does anyone know anything about this apparent design
evolution, and is there anything about the Sony springless design that would
prevent me from using Teledisk?
Thanks.
-W
1 Dec
1 Dec
1:12 a.m.
New subject: Hazel is home!
My Altair collection has just gone through the roof! Several months ago I
posted some pictures of an Altair setup with the MITS Pertec harddisk and
MITS harddisk controller once I picked up its trail. After much deal
hacking and bitchy whining, its mine!
I made a webpage at http://dogas.freecyberzone.com/Hazel.htm Check out its
8x300 based MITS HD Controller.
And just for tipping the cosmic luck balance beam so severely as above, I'm
having to pay elsewhere with yet another forced move of the computer
collection. I'm loosing my storage space at my nephews home. So, is anyone
near enough to Brunswick Georgia (zip 31520) for some serious rescue/trading
[in person]? list avaiable at http://dogas.freecyberzone.com/csale.htm
Cheers
- Mike: dogas(a)bellsouth.net
1:43 a.m.
New subject: Hazel is home!
list avaiable at
http://dogas.freecyberzone.com/csale.htm
There must be some mistake. There must be over _400_ systems
on that page... that can't be right? <g>
John A.
I'm glad you're taking decisive action now anyway.
2:02 a.m.
New subject: Hazel is home!
From: John Allain <allain(a)panix.com>
I know. I missed listing alot, and I am keeping *some* ...
;)
- Mike: dogas(a)bellsouth.net
list avaiable
at http://dogas.freecyberzone.com/csale.htm
There must be some mistake. There must be over _400_ systems
on that page... that can't be right? <g>
4:16 a.m.
New subject: Hazel is home!
How quickly do you need things to disappear? Is there anything you're
looking for in trade, or do you just prefer some cash?
4:19 a.m.
New subject: Hazel is home!
Well, I normally manage to get the address right for private replies,
but now and then...
Sorry!
5:55 a.m.
New subject: Hazel is home!
Now that's what I call a collection ! Compared to you I've just got a
few computers around. Didn't you go thru this a couple of years ago ?
Maybe we should form a support group for those of us trying to kick
this addiction. :^)) " Hi, my name is Bob, and I'm a computer
collecting addict" " Before I kicked my wife out in favor of a PDP11,
I had my own business, a beautiful home, and the latest model SUV."
Lawrence
From: John Allain <allain(a)panix.com>
I know. I missed listing alot, and I am keeping *some* ...
;)
- Mike: dogas(a)bellsouth.net
lgwalker(a)mts.net
bigwalk_ca(a)yahoo.com
list
avaiable at http://dogas.freecyberzone.com/csale.htm
There must be some mistake. There must be over _400_ systems
on that page... that can't be right? <g>
7:35 a.m.
New subject: Hazel is home!
At 10:44 AM 12/1/02 -0500, you wrote:
You're right, that's not right. He probably left out 1/3 of them! No, I'm
not kidding! You have to see his place(s) to believe it.
Joe
list avaiable
at http://dogas.freecyberzone.com/csale.htm
There must be some mistake. There must be over _400_ systems
on that page... that can't be right? <g>
John A. 
3:44 a.m.
New subject: Hazel is home!
On Sun, 1 Dec 2002, Mike wrote:
My Altair collection has just gone through the roof!
Several months ago I
posted some pictures of an Altair setup with the MITS Pertec harddisk and
MITS harddisk controller once I picked up its trail. After much deal
hacking and bitchy whining, its mine!
I made a webpage at http://dogas.freecyberzone.com/Hazel.htm Check out its
8x300 based MITS HD Controller.
Nice page! Now I wish I spent some time documenting my systems that
much...
And just for tipping the cosmic luck balance beam so
severely as above, I'm
having to pay elsewhere with yet another forced move of the computer
collection. I'm loosing my storage space at my nephews home. So, is anyone
near enough to Brunswick Georgia (zip 31520) for some serious rescue/trading
[in person]? list avaiable at http://dogas.freecyberzone.com/csale.htm
Gah. You've got system's I've really wanted for quite a while now, but
there's no way I'll be able to get down to Georgia to pick them up. And
of course, it'd probably be difficult at best to ship anything moderately
big.
Pat
--
Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS
Information Technology at Purdue
Research Computing and Storage
http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu
7:33 a.m.
New subject: Hazel is home!
At 10:06 AM 12/1/02 -0500, you wrote:
My Altair collection has just gone through the roof! Several months ago I
posted some pictures of an Altair setup with the MITS Pertec harddisk and
MITS harddisk controller once I picked up its trail. After much deal
hacking and bitchy whining, its mine!
I made a webpage at http://dogas.freecyberzone.com/Hazel.htm Check out its
8x300 based MITS HD Controller.
And just for tipping the cosmic luck balance beam so severely as above, I'm
having to pay elsewhere with yet another forced move of the computer
collection. I'm loosing my storage space at my nephews home. So, is anyone
near enough to Brunswick Georgia (zip 31520) for some serious rescue/trading
[in person]? list avaiable at http://dogas.freecyberzone.com/csale.htm
Sure. I'll be glad to keep that Altair for ya! :-)
Joe
4 Dec
4 Dec
1:57 a.m.
New subject: Hazel is home!
On Sunday, December 1, 2002, at 10:06 AM, Mike wrote:
My Altair collection has just gone through the roof!
Several months
ago I
posted some pictures of an Altair setup with the MITS Pertec harddisk
and
MITS harddisk controller once I picked up its trail. After much deal
hacking and bitchy whining, its mine!
I made a webpage at http://dogas.freecyberzone.com/Hazel.htm Check
out its
8x300 based MITS HD Controller.
Wow, that is a *gorgeous* machine. Congratulations! :-)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire "You don't have Vaseline in Canada?"
St. Petersburg, FL -Bill Bradford
22 Nov
22 Nov
12:51 p.m.
Mr. Frajkor,
The Computer History Museum is currently located on the NASA/Ames site
but they are basically in mothballs at the moment (they call the
"museum" visible storage.)
They've got some new space that they are setting up near the NASA/Ames
facility that's "off base."
I work about a mile from both the old and the new facilities in Mountain
View.
I honestly doubt that they are going to be interested in your specific
gear due to their limited budget (they just bought a large chunk of
California real estate) and the fact that the gear isn't all that
uncommon.
You can visit the CHM home page at http://www.computerhistory.org/ for
some more info and contact information.
If you are unable to convince them to take your gear I might be
interested in some of the items.
Best of luck!
Erik Klein
www.vintage-computer.com
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Jan George Frajkor
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 5:44 PM
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Old computers
Does anyone have an address and some contacts at the computer
museum
that NASA's Ames Research centre in California is putting together?
There
was an article about it in the New Scientist Magazine.
Here's the reason: some time ago a museum allegedly building in
Colorado approached me about taking away some old machines I have... I
promised them, but nothing every came of it and the storage bills are
killing me now that I am retired.
I will give them away, but I do want to do it on a wholesale basis
rather than piece by piece. Here's what I have:
Dec PDP 11/34, two RK06 drives (was working when retired). Drives
are,
of course, the big washing machine ones. 11/34 is in an "executive"
rack.
Dec PDP ll/23, two RL02 drives, in usual tall rack. Broken pin in
ribbon cable to the mini-drives used for booting and diagnosis. RL02s
were
working when retired.
Lots of manuals and some spare platters for the drives.
Quick and Timely (Seattle company) CP/M box, S100 bus. Working when
last used.
Matrox (Montreal company) CP/M box, with old analog-digital
conversion
attachment, used for scientific experiment data gathering when retired.
No documentation, but some boot floppies for the above.
Commodore 8296. Beautiful looks. Last Commodore entry into the 8-bit
business computer field. With dual floppy drive. Some software.
A few miscellaneous Atari STs. monitors, floppy drives.
Since I am in Ottawa, California might be a long way to transport
the
stuff but since some of it seems rare now and the Ames Research centre
seems intent on collecting stuff, they might be willing to pay for a
truck
from here.
I would appreciate advice.
ahoj
--
------
Jan George Frajkor _!_
221 Arlington Ave. --!--
Ottawa, Ontario |
Canada K1R 5S8 /^\
aa003(a)ncf.ca /^\ /^\
gfrajkor(a)ccs.carleton.ca
h: 613 563-4534 fax: 613 520-6690
23 Nov
23 Nov
3:02 a.m.
I would be happy to take all but the PDPs (not enough space here, alas) and
I am just around the corner from you in Ottawa west. Also, I suspect Robert
Krtek would be interested in the PDP; I can contact him for you.
I could pick up the other things this weekend if you like.
Regards,
Arlen Michaels
--
Arlen Michaels
arlen(a)acm.org
on 22/11/02 8:43 PM, Jan George Frajkor at gfrajkor(a)ccs.carleton.ca wrote:
I will give them away, but I do want to do it on a
wholesale basis
rather than piece by piece. Here's what I have:
Dec PDP 11/34, two RK06 drives (was working when retired). Drives are,
of course, the big washing machine ones. 11/34 is in an "executive" rack.
Dec PDP ll/23, two RL02 drives, in usual tall rack. Broken pin in
ribbon cable to the mini-drives used for booting and diagnosis. RL02s were
working when retired.
Lots of manuals and some spare platters for the drives.
Quick and Timely (Seattle company) CP/M box, S100 bus. Working when
last used.
Matrox (Montreal company) CP/M box, with old analog-digital conversion
attachment, used for scientific experiment data gathering when retired.
No documentation, but some boot floppies for the above.
Commodore 8296. Beautiful looks. Last Commodore entry into the 8-bit
business computer field. With dual floppy drive. Some software.
A few miscellaneous Atari STs. monitors, floppy drives.
7820
days inactive
7832
days old
22 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
-
allain＠panix.com -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
arlen＠acm.org -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
classiccmp＠vintage-computer.com -
dogas＠bellsouth.net -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
gfrajkor＠ccs.carleton.ca -
lgwalker＠mts.net -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
pat＠purdueriots.com -
rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com -
wmsmith＠earthlink.net