19 Jun
2013
19 Jun
'13
4:55 a.m.
By Richard Chirgwin, 19th June 2013
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_pdp11_until_205…
--
Stephane
FreeDonne <http://www.freedonne.org> Join FreeDonne - Rejoignez FreeDonne.
19 Jun
19 Jun
12:59 p.m.
On 6/19/2013 1:55 AM, St?phane Tsacas wrote:
By Richard Chirgwin, 19th June 2013
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_pdp11_until_205…
The article (and the job posting) only mentions the software side of
things -- wonder what their plan is to keep their PDP-11 hardware
running for the next 40 years.I have to imagine that by then parts might
be hard to find:).
Very cool, could be an interesting (if potentially stressful) job...
- Josh
20 Jun
20 Jun
10:36 a.m.
--- On Wed, 6/19/13, Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com> wrote:
The article (and the job posting) only mentions the
software
side of things -- wonder what their plan is to keep their
PDP-11 hardware running for the next 40 years.I have to
imagine that by then parts might be hard to find:).
I would be willing to wager that they already have the parts, and have had them for some
time. Big, important, mission critical applications, you have a complete hot spare system
that's kept current with the production one, and you have spare parts for both. And
you likely bought them new, all at the same time.
I would not be surprised at all if they've got enough parts to keep those machines
running for a hundred years, all tested, labeled, inventoried, and ready to go. I know I
would.
-Ian
1:44 p.m.
On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 07:36:53AM -0700, Mr Ian Primus wrote:
I would be willing to wager that they already have the
parts, and have had
them for some time. Big, important, mission critical applications, you have a
complete hot spare system that's kept current with the production one, and you
have spare parts for both. And you likely bought them new, all at the same
time.
If it's the end-user I'm thinking of, by now I think they're running hardware
(freestanding 11/70 clone at 1:1 speed) that was custom-built just for them.
So it's brand new and yes I'm sure they got a multi-decade supply of spares.
John Wilson
D Bit
2:33 p.m.
On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 7:36 AM, Mr Ian Primus <ian_primus at yahoo.com> wrote:
--- On Wed, 6/19/13, Josh Dersch <derschjo at
gmail.com> wrote:
Oh, I'm not doubting that they have spares (and lots of them) but by 2050
these spares will easily be pushing 70 years old. Hard drives and power
supplies will go bad just sitting there. For the logic, I wonder about the
effects of bit rot, etc. even on unused NOS spares. Someone'll have to be
there who knows how to keep an -11 running, I wonder who they've found :).
Of course, this is perhaps less of an issue if they're not running on
original hardware (simulation or a modern clone, for example).
- Josh
The article (and the job posting) only mentions
the software
side of things -- wonder what their plan is to keep their
PDP-11 hardware running for the next 40 years.I have to
imagine that by then parts might be hard to find:).
I would be willing to wager that they already have the parts, and have had
them for some time. Big, important, mission critical applications, you have
a complete hot spare system that's kept current with the production one,
and you have spare parts for both. And you likely bought them new, all at
the same time.
I would not be surprised at all if they've got enough parts to keep those
machines running for a hundred years, all tested, labeled, inventoried, and
ready to go. I know I would.
-Ian
3:56 p.m.
On Thu, 20 Jun 2013, Josh Dersch wrote:
On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 7:36 AM, Mr Ian Primus
<ian_primus at yahoo.com> wrote:
Hard disks likely won't be an issue over time. I expect several hard drive
emulators will be available long before that becomes an issue for these
sorts of specialized applications. Even then, it is nearing the point
where hobbyist with the right tools and knowledge can repair/recreate
parts for some earlier drives, and I see no reason why this trend won't
continue.
Electrolytic capacitors will certainly go bad, but replacements should
still be available in the future. I have NOS TTL parts here that are over
30 years old that still work just fine. EPROMs might very well need to be
reprogrammed (or replaced if the quartz windows aren't properly sealed to
the IC body), but masked ROMs should be good just about indefinitely.
The main enemy of these machines and spare parts is humidity, but properly
stored, most of these parts should last for many many decades to come.
--- On Wed, 6/19/13, Josh Dersch <derschjo at
gmail.com> wrote:
Oh, I'm not doubting that they have spares (and lots of them) but by 2050
these spares will easily be pushing 70 years old. Hard drives and power
supplies will go bad just sitting there. For the logic, I wonder about the
effects of bit rot, etc. even on unused NOS spares. Someone'll have to be
there who knows how to keep an -11 running, I wonder who they've found :).
Of course, this is perhaps less of an issue if they're not running on
original hardware (simulation or a modern clone, for example). The article (and the job posting) only mentions
the software
side of things -- wonder what their plan is to keep their
PDP-11 hardware running for the next 40 years.I have to
imagine that by then parts might be hard to find:).
I would be willing to wager that they already have the parts, and have had
them for some time. Big, important, mission critical applications, you have
a complete hot spare system that's kept current with the production one,
and you have spare parts for both. And you likely bought them new, all at
the same time.
I would not be surprised at all if they've got enough parts to keep those
machines running for a hundred years, all tested, labeled, inventoried, and
ready to go. I know I would.
4:52 p.m.
On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 12:56 PM, Tothwolf <tothwolf at concentric.net> wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jun 2013, Josh Dersch wrote:
No doubt.
On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 7:36 AM, Mr Ian Primus
<ian_primus at yahoo.com>
wrote:
Hard disks likely won't be an issue over time. I expect several hard drive
emulators will be available long before that becomes an issue for these
sorts of specialized applications. Even then, it is nearing the point where
hobbyist with the right tools and knowledge can repair/recreate parts for
some earlier drives, and I see no reason why this trend won't continue.
Electrolytic capacitors will certainly go bad, but replacements should
still be available in the future. --- On Wed, 6/19/13, Josh Dersch <derschjo at
gmail.com> wrote:
The article (and the job posting) only mentions the software
Oh, I'm not doubting that they have spares (and lots of them) but by 2050
these spares will easily be pushing 70 years old. Hard drives and power
supplies will go bad just sitting there. For the logic, I wonder about
the
effects of bit rot, etc. even on unused NOS spares. Someone'll have to be
there who knows how to keep an -11 running, I wonder who they've found :).
Of course, this is perhaps less of an issue if they're not running on
original hardware (simulation or a modern clone, for example).
side of things -- wonder what their plan is to
keep their
PDP-11 hardware running for the next 40 years.I have to
imagine that by then parts might be hard to find:).
I would be willing to wager that they already have the parts, and have
had
them for some time. Big, important, mission critical applications, you
have
a complete hot spare system that's kept current with the production one,
and you have spare parts for both. And you likely bought them new, all at
the same time.
I would not be surprised at all if they've got enough parts to keep those
machines running for a hundred years, all tested, labeled, inventoried,
and
ready to go. I know I would.
I have NOS TTL parts here that are over 30 years old
that still work just
fine. EPROMs might very well need to be reprogrammed (or replaced if the
quartz windows aren't properly sealed to the IC body), but masked ROMs
should be good just about indefinitely.
That's all well and good -- but do you want to stake a nuclear power
plant's operations on that assumption? :) (And I already have a couple of
machines with failing masked ROMs, unfortunately. Though they are in the
vast minority, I agree).
I guess my question is -- does anyone really know what'll happen to (for
example) already aged TTL parts in the next 30 years?
At any rate, all of this maintenance still requires a hardware engineer who
knows how PDP-11s work, I wonder if they had a job listing for that as well?
- Josh
7:14 p.m.
On 06/19/2013 09:59 AM, Josh Dersch wrote:
The article (and the job posting) only mentions the
software side of
things -- wonder what their plan is to keep their PDP-11 hardware
running for the next 40 years.I have to imagine that by then parts might
be hard to find:).
Very cool, could be an interesting (if potentially stressful) job...
I suspect that the solution will involve emulation and lots of testing.
I suspect that IBM 1401 emulation probably lasted into the 90s. For
all I know, it still may be around.
You don't have to be afraid of time-proven software, just the new stuff.
How long and how much money did the State of California DMV take to
replace their Spectra 70 setup?
--Chuck
19 Jun
19 Jun
1:43 p.m.
On 19 June 2013 09:55, St?phane Tsacas <stephane.tsacas at gmail.com> wrote:
By Richard Chirgwin, 19th June 2013
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_pdp11_until_205…
Well spotted. :?)
This job was mentioned on this list back in April:
?
PDP-11 software designer job. yes, in 2013!
Thomas Dzubin dzubint at vcn.bc.ca via classiccmp.org
18 Apr
I had to check my calendar to make sure I didn't go back in time
Here's a job advertisement for a "Senior PDP-11 Software Designer"
http://jobs.itworldcanada.com/Jobs/Ggnt_nt-yM0A2pqNiGCgnQ==/Senior-PDP-11-S…
This would be my dream job if I was single and unattached... I'd move
to Peterborough in a heartbeat.
...sigh...
----------------------
Thomas PDP-11 Dzubin
Calgary, Saskatoon, or Vancouver CANADA
?
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884
4091
days inactive
4092
days old
8 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
cclist＠sydex.com -
derschjo＠gmail.com -
ian_primus＠yahoo.com -
lproven＠gmail.com -
stephane.tsacas＠gmail.com -
tothwolf＠concentric.net -
wilson＠dbit.com