14 Oct
2012
14 Oct
'12
12:34 a.m.
I'd forgotten I had this and where I got it from, but I was cleaning out one
of my storage units today and found an HP Apollo 715t/33 (425t) (picture:
http://www.floodgap.com/iv/1695
).
AIUI, this unit can boot both Domain/OS and HP-UX. I have a crate of HP-HIL
keyboards from my 9000/350, but the manual indicates they won't work with
Domain/OS (and a Domain/OS keyboard won't work with HP-UX). Ostensibly there
is a switch on this unit which says what it's configured for, but I can't
find it in the manual or obviously on the exterior of the unit. Any
suggestions? I haven't fired it up yet.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- TV is chewing gum for the eyes. -- Frank Lloyd Wright ----------------------
14 Oct
14 Oct
3:28 a.m.
On 10/13/2012 9:34 PM, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
I'd forgotten I had this and where I got it from,
but I was cleaning out one
of my storage units today and found an HP Apollo 715t/33 (425t) (picture:
http://www.floodgap.com/iv/1695
).
AIUI, this unit can boot both Domain/OS and HP-UX. I
I think that's one of the nextstep compatible models. It is a lot more
fun to play with than hp-ux if you don't find Domain/OS for it. PARISC
is on the same cd as SPARC. You may already have it.
3:45 a.m.
I'd
forgotten I had this and where I got it from, but I was cleaning out one
of my storage units today and found an HP Apollo 715t/33 (425t) (picture:
http://www.floodgap.com/iv/1695
).
AIUI, this unit can boot both Domain/OS and HP-UX. I
I think that's one of the nextstep compatible models. It is a lot more
fun to play with than hp-ux if you don't find Domain/OS for it. PARISC
is on the same cd as SPARC. You may already have it.
3:55 a.m.
On 10/14/2012 12:45 AM, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
It is actually. It's just a logo thing. It's just a HP9000
http://www.openpa.net/systems/hp-9000_715.html
SPARC. You
may already have it.
I don't think this is one of the PA-RISC models (it's
not an HP 9000).
3:55 a.m.
On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 21:34:51 -0700 (PDT)
Cameron Kaiser <spectre at floodgap.com> wrote:
HP Apollo 715t/33 (425t)
Please don't
confuse. The linked picture shows a series 400 machine.
The 715 is an entirely different line of machines. The 700-series is
PA-RISC based, where the 400-series is m68k based. You can run the
original 4.4BSD-Unix releases from the CSRG on a 425t also. (In HP-UX
mode with HIL peripherals.) The Domain/OS vs. HPsUX "switch" is a
setting in the boot monitor, no hardware switch.
--
\end{Jochen}
\ref{http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/}
10:07 a.m.
On 10/14/2012 02:55 AM, Jochen Kunz wrote:
On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 21:34:51 -0700 (PDT)
Cameron Kaiser<spectre at floodgap.com> wrote:
Yes. I don't consider the 7xx line to be real Apollos and IIRC there's no
Domain release for them; they're just HPUX boxes with an Apollo brand
slapped on them.
A 425t is a real Apollo though and a rather nice machine IMHO (the earlier
ones just looked like big PC-a-like boxes and weren't particularly fast). I
don't think it'll run Domain/OS without a Domain keyboard plugged into it,
so you'd be stuck* with BSD if you don't have one.
* and it's perhaps questionable what the point is of running Domain/OS
unless you have more than one machine; IIRC all the good stuff revolved
around having a bunch of interconnected systems, and the features on a
single system were more quirky/annoying than anything.
There do seem to be far more Apollo systems around than there are Domain
keyboards - I don't know if that's how they shipped, or if they keyboards
have been ditched over the years because people mistake them for just
another PC keyboard. Probably the latter :-(
cheers
Jules
HP Apollo 715t/33 (425t)
Please don't
confuse. The linked picture shows a series 400 machine.
The 715 is an entirely different line of machines. The 700-series is
PA-RISC based, where the 400-series is m68k based.
10:23 a.m.
On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 09:07:05 -0500
Jules Richardson <jules.richardson99 at gmail.com> wrote:
A 425t is a real Apollo
No. It is a HP300
machine with some Apolloness shoehorned in. I.e. a
ISA slot for the Apollo Token Ring NIC and a domain keyboard port.
--
\end{Jochen}
\ref{http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/}
10:29 a.m.
On 14 October 2012 22:07, Jules Richardson <jules.richardson99 at gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
There do seem to be far more Apollo systems around
than there are Domain
keyboards - I don't know if that's how they shipped, or if they keyboards
have been ditched over the years because people mistake them for just
another PC keyboard. Probably the latter :-(
The older DN nodes etc will boot to a serial console so it is quite
possible that a number of process servers where shipped without
keyboards or monitors.
Simon
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Well, an engineer is not concerned with the truth; that is left to
philosophers and theologians: the prime concern of an engineer is
the utility of the final product."
Lectures on the Electrical Properties of Materials, L.Solymar, D.Walsh
2:11 p.m.
HP Apollo
715t/33 (425t)
Please don't confuse. The linked picture shows a series 400
machine.
The 715 is an entirely different line of machines. The 700-series is
PA-RISC based, where the 400-series is m68k based. You can run the
original 4.4BSD-Unix releases from the CSRG on a 425t also. (In HP-UX
mode with HIL peripherals.) The Domain/OS vs. HPsUX "switch" is a
setting in the boot monitor, no hardware switch.
3:38 p.m.
On 10/14/2012 01:11 PM, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
I am not trying to be confusing. That's legitimately the unit I have. On
the front it says, HP Apollo with a sticker "Model 715t/33." On the back
side it says A1630 425t. It has an Domain keyboard port and an HP-HIL port.
So what do I have here?
I think that only opening it up will tell you that for sure.
Here's the fronts from a couple of TNMoC's Apollo 400's:
http://www.patooie.com/temp/apollos.jpg
... is the case-front decal on your machine as recessed as on those? It
looks in your photo as though it perhaps isn't - which might mean that
someone has stuck a 715t decal over the top (from memory, they're certainly
about the same size). Of course if that's true, *why* is an interesting
question :-)
(The blue LED on the TNMoC system is an oddity, incidentally - IIRC the 400
was circa 1990, which seems a little early to see one as a general-purpose
indicator on a computer. I think the other 400 in the pair had a more
conventional green or amber one. I'm surprised that someone went to the
effort to replace it, though, and it's not as though LEDs fail often and
force replacement!)
cheers
Jules
HP Apollo 715t/33 (425t)
Please don't
confuse. The linked picture shows a series 400 machine.
The 715 is an entirely different line of machines. The 700-series is
PA-RISC based, where the 400-series is m68k based. You can run the
original 4.4BSD-Unix releases from the CSRG on a 425t also. (In HP-UX
mode with HIL peripherals.) The Domain/OS vs. HPsUX "switch" is a
setting in the boot monitor, no hardware switch. 
6:02 p.m.
Here's the fronts from a couple of TNMoC's
Apollo 400's:
http://www.patooie.com/temp/apollos.jpg
... is the case-front decal on your machine as recessed as on those? It
looks in your photo as though it perhaps isn't - which might mean that
someone has stuck a 715t decal over the top (from memory, they're certainly
about the same size). Of course if that's true, *why* is an interesting
question :-)
It looks *exactly* like that, except for the sticker over the Series 400
(with the 715t sticker). Otherwise, it has the same lights and everything.
I'll crack it open later and look on the board.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Roger Waters, orthopaedist: "Hey! Careful with your back, Eugene!" ---------
4:30 p.m.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
Namens Cameron Kaiser
Verzonden: zondag 14 oktober 2012 20:11
Aan: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Onderwerp: Re: HP Apollo 715t
I am not trying to be confusing. That's legitimately the unit I have. On
the
front it
HP Apollo
715t/33 (425t)
Please don't confuse. The linked picture shows a series 400
machine.
The 715 is an entirely different line of machines. The 700-series is
PA-RISC based, where the 400-series is m68k based. You can run the
original 4.4BSD-Unix releases from the CSRG on a 425t also. (In HP-UX
mode with HIL peripherals.) The Domain/OS vs. HPsUX "switch" is a
setting in the boot monitor, no hardware switch. says, HP Apollo with a sticker "Model
715t/33." On the back side it says
A1630
425t. It has an Domain keyboard port and an HP-HIL
port.
So what do I have here?
PA-Risc machines don't have the apollo label on the box.
You have a HP 9000 series 400 machine.
Also the 700 series don't have the Domain option, to see if a 69030 or 040
is installed you need to open the machine or switch it on look what the boot
room tells you.
-Rik
5:19 p.m.
On 10/14/2012 1:30 PM, Rik Bos wrote:
PA-Risc machines don't have the apollo label on
the box.
You have a HP 9000 series 400 machine.
Also the 700 series don't have the Domain option, to see if a 69030 or 040
is installed you need to open the machine or switch it on look what the boot
room tells you.
-Rik
Not true at all. They used Apollo logo on a bunch of them
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hp9000_715.jpg
7:51 p.m.
On Oct 14, 2012, at 1:30 PM, Rik Bos wrote:
PA-Risc machines don't have the apollo label on
the box.
Yes, they do. (Many of the earlier workstations do, up to and including ones from the 715
era.)
Some of the confusion about this machine surely stems from the fact that HP offered an
official hardware upgrade for the 400 chassis to PA-RISC. It consisted of a normal
700-series mainboard with some mechanical bits changed for fit. Then the machine became
like what you see here. The DOMAIN keyboard port would not be retained, though I suppose
it's at least possible that the cutout and label are still there.
OTOH it's entirely possible somebody took the chassis later and returned it
(unofficially, keeping the upgrade badge on the front) to 400-series guts, in which case
it is a proper 400-series with all the capabilities and limitations one would expect.
Regardless of what the chassis looks like, or the badge says: if it has a PA-RISC
processor, it's still a 700-series. If it has an MC68030 or 68040, it's still a
400-series.
ok
bear.
--
until further notice
15 Oct
15 Oct
5:59 a.m.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
Namens r.stricklin
Verzonden: maandag 15 oktober 2012 1:52
Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only
Onderwerp: Re: HP Apollo 715t
On Oct 14, 2012, at 1:30 PM, Rik Bos wrote:
ones
PA-Risc machines don't have the apollo label
on the box.
Yes, they do. (Many of the earlier workstations do, up to and including from the 715 era.)
Some of the confusion about this machine surely stems from the fact that
HP
offered an official hardware upgrade for the 400
chassis to PA-RISC. It
consisted
of a normal 700-series mainboard with some mechanical
bits changed for
fit.
Then the machine became like what you see here. The
DOMAIN keyboard port
would not be retained, though I suppose it's at least possible that the
cutout
and
label are still there.
OTOH it's entirely possible somebody took the chassis later and returned
it
(unofficially, keeping the upgrade badge on the front)
to 400-series guts,
in
which case it is a proper 400-series with all the
capabilities and
limitations one
would expect.
Regardless of what the chassis looks like, or the badge says: if it has a
PA-RISC
processor, it's still a 700-series. If it has an
MC68030 or 68040, it's
still a 400-
series.
ok
bear.
--
until further notice
Ok, but when it's upgraded to a 700 series the DIN-plug for the Domain
keyboard would be disappeared.
-Rik
9:07 a.m.
Ok, but when it's upgraded to a 700 series the
DIN-plug for the Domain
keyboard would be disappeared.
The DIN plug is definitely present. So I guess I have a 425t in a 715 case
that still has 425 guts. Guess I should take that sticker off. ;)
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- FORTUNE: Today is a great day for making firm decisions. Or is it? ---------
12:25 p.m.
On 10/15/2012 08:07 AM, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
But the back still says 425t. I still think you have 425t guts in a 425t
case, but someone's slapped a 715 decal on the front. Office joke, perhaps,
or deceptive seller at some point in the machine's history...
Ok, but when
it's upgraded to a 700 series the DIN-plug for the Domain
keyboard would be disappeared.
The DIN plug is definitely present. So I guess I have a 425t in a 715 case
that still has 425 guts. Guess I should take that sticker off. ;)
12:31 p.m.
On 10/14/2012 06:51 PM, r.stricklin wrote:
On Oct 14, 2012, at 1:30 PM, Rik Bos wrote:
Indeed. I've had a couple of offers of Apollo hardware in the past which
has turned out to just be PA-RISC stuff. The latter are nice boxes, but not
particularly inspiring.
PA-Risc machines don't have the apollo label
on the box.
Yes, they do. (Many of the earlier workstations do, up to and including
ones from the 715 era.) Some of the confusion about this machine surely stems
from the fact that
HP offered an official hardware upgrade for the 400 chassis to PA-RISC.
It consisted of a normal 700-series mainboard with some mechanical bits
changed for fit. Then the machine became like what you see here.
Really? I'm amazed that made any kind of financial sense; 'real' Apollos
weren't exactly widespread, and the cost of design / tooling / training /
marketing surely negated what few sales they likely made. Why not just
offer a discount on a regular 700-series system?
cheers
Jules
9:23 p.m.
On Oct 15, 2012, at 9:31 AM, Jules Richardson wrote:
Really? I'm amazed that made any kind of financial
sense; 'real' Apollos weren't exactly widespread, and the cost of design /
tooling / training / marketing surely negated what few sales they likely made. Why not
just offer a discount on a regular 700-series system?
Nevertheless. I thought I had an upgrade kit installation instructions manual but it's
not in my inventory so either I imagined it or I haven't found it since starting
keeping inventory. At the very least the upgrades are explicitly mentioned in the HP-UX
Workstation HCL (14th ed.), as there are a few hardware options which are only supported
in the upgraded workstation, and not in the "real" one.
Mechanically it's (they're) more divergent from the actual 715 than I remembered;
the cutout for the Domain keyboard seems to be retained (on the 715t only), but I think
there's nothing behind it. It also has a DIO-II format SGC slot (and may have an ISA
slot instead of an EISA one? weird.)
---[quote]
Model 715t (Upgraded Model 425t or 433t)
The Model 715t is a single-processor deskside workstation upgraded from an MC68040-based
Model 425t or 433t. The upgrade kit is discontinued. The Model 715t is not similar to any
standard (as-built) Model 715. The closest standard Series 700 SPU would be the Model
730.
There was also a 715s, which was an upgrade in the physically larger 400-series chassis.
---[quote]
Model 715s (Upgraded Model 425s or 433s)
The Model 715s is a single-processor deskside workstation upgraded from an MC68040-based
Model 425s or 433s. The upgrade kit is discontinued. The 715s is more similar to a Model
750 than to a standard (as-built) Model 715.
aaaaand the 710e.
---[quote]
Model 705 and 710
The Model 705 and 710 are discontinued single-processor desktop workstations. They provide
no I/O slots.
Some Model 710 SPUs may have been upgraded from the MC68040-based Model 425e. This
document refers to these upgraded systems as Model 710e, and it is physically inden- tical
to a standard Model 710, except for using 425e RAM and storage devices.
ok
bear.
--
until further notice
4:30 p.m.
On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 11:11:15 -0700 (PDT)
Cameron Kaiser <spectre at floodgap.com> wrote:
I am not trying to be confusing.
Sorry, I missed
the right words. (As you may have noticed, english is
not my native language.) I meant somthing along "Don't _be_ confused".
Or "Don't _get_ confused."
That's legitimately the unit I have. On
the front it says, HP Apollo with a sticker "Model 715t/33." On the back
side it says A1630 425t. It has an Domain keyboard port and an HP-HIL port.
The
enclousure is definitely a 400t / 425t. There has been mentioned a
PA-RISC upgrade. I am not aware of this. But it well may have existed.
So, in the end: Open the box and have a sharp look. Here is a picture of
the 425t / 433t mainboard. Notice the M68040 in the midle-top:
http://www.supervinx.com/Retrocomputer/HP/425t/HP-UX/000-01013640.JPG
IIRC the 400t uses the same mainboard, but with a large, L-shaped
M68030 mezzanine board in the 68040 socket.
This is a 715 box:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Hp9000_715.jpg
If your box really is a 425t to PA-RISC upgraded machine: Please take
some pictures and get some information up to http://www.openpa.net/
So what do I have here?
A Chimera? ;-)
--
\end{Jochen}
\ref{http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/}
14 Oct
14 Oct
7:42 p.m.
On Oct 13, 2012, at 9:34 PM, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
AIUI, this unit can boot both Domain/OS and HP-UX.
Only if it had stayed a 425t. Once it was converted to a 715t, it becomes a 715 in every
respect except chassis.
Ostensibly there is a switch on this unit which says
what it's configured for, but I can't
find it in the manual or obviously on the exterior of the unit.
It's not physical switch. It's a configuration flag set in the ROM monitor. This
isn't present on your 715t because it's not a 400-series anymore, chassis
notwithstanding.
FWIW the bummer about this switch is there's no real way to change if you have the
wrong keyboard.
Any suggestions? I haven't fired it up yet.
Run HP-UX or NEXTSTEP. Domain/OS is out of the question. Sorry.
ok
bear.
--
until further notice
4331
days inactive
4333
days old
21 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
bear＠typewritten.org -
fryers＠gmail.com -
hp-fix＠xs4all.nl -
jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de -
jules.richardson99＠gmail.com -
mc68010＠gmail.com -
spectre＠floodgap.com -
spedraja＠ono.com