23 Jan
2002
23 Jan
'02
6:47 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com]
only things I'm likely to keep will be the
PSU's. It might
be well for you to
learn about the Apple-][+ before running out to get various
add-on's, so you
get the "right" stuff as opposed to a wierd assortment of junk.
Think so? :) I imagine you're right. My question, though, had more to do
with what kind of nifty stuff you can get to hook up to it. I have only
worked with relatively "vanilla" Apple IIs, so I have little knowledge in
that area.
Regards,
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl
Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
23 Jan
23 Jan
8:23 a.m.
Well, as with any other system, once you know about the "vanilla" system, you
can easily decide for yourself what additional hardware you need. The way to
make sure you never get it right is to run out and snag everything that seems
"neat" without first knowing, absolutely, what the consequence of attempting
to use it will be.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Smith" <csmith(a)amdocs.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 1:47 PM
Subject: RE: Apple II boards
-----Original
Message-----
From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com]
only things I'm likely to keep will be the
PSU's. It might
be well for you to
learn about the Apple-][+ before running out to get various
add-on's, so you
get the "right" stuff as opposed to a wierd assortment of junk.
Think so? :) I imagine you're right. My question, though, had more to do
with what kind of nifty stuff you can get to hook up to it. I have only
worked with relatively "vanilla" Apple IIs, so I have little knowledge in
that area.
Regards,
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl
Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
8:47 a.m.
Well, as with any other system, once you know about
the "vanilla" system, you
can easily decide for yourself what additional hardware you need. The way to
make sure you never get it right is to run out and snag everything that seems
"neat" without first knowing, absolutely, what the consequence of attempting
to use it will be.
Dick
Thats starting to sound a bit like white-coat syndrome. These computers
are not rare artifacts to be hidden away behind glass walls, only to be
touched by the neophites in white lab coats, you know. Go ahead and
experiment, heck throw the completely wrong hardware in and cause a
major short circuit! And in so doing, know that you can always get another
apple ][+ or 3 for about $5 (if not for free, heaven knows i keep getting
offered the things...)
Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 perhaps...
-Lawrence LeMay
11:39 a.m.
You're right, he can do that. However, if he does, he won't know any more
when he's done than when he started. The thing of value is the user's time.
My objection to Apple hardware/software has always been their total disregard
for the user's time and data. However, if the user is unwilling to learn what
the system does before "doing" it, he gets what he deserves. IN this case, it
means that instead of learning something meaningful, he learns less than
nothing.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence LeMay" <lemay(a)cs.umn.edu>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: Apple II boards
perhaps...
> Well, as with any other system, once you know
about the "vanilla" system,
you
> can easily decide for yourself what additional
hardware you need. The way
to
> make sure you never get it right is to run out
and snag everything that
seems
> "neat" without first knowing,
absolutely, what the consequence of
attempting
to use it will
be.
Dick
Thats starting to sound a bit like white-coat syndrome. These computers
are not rare artifacts to be hidden away behind glass walls, only to be
touched by the neophites in white lab coats, you know. Go ahead and
experiment, heck throw the completely wrong hardware in and cause a
major short circuit! And in so doing, know that you can always get another
apple ][+ or 3 for about $5 (if not for free, heaven knows i keep getting
offered the things...)
Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64
-Lawrence LeMay
4:47 p.m.
I guess you don't follow Epay very much. Since the A-2s have started to
become scarce, II+'s have become a rising commodity. I'd be only very
happy to take any you get for that price off your hands and give you double
that. A black Bell and Howell would fetch well over a $100 even with the
downturn in the economy.
Lawrence
Thats starting to sound a bit like white-coat syndrome. These computers
are not rare artifacts to be hidden away behind glass walls, only to be
touched by the neophites in white lab coats, you know. Go ahead and
experiment, heck throw the completely wrong hardware in and cause a
major short circuit! And in so doing, know that you can always get another
apple ][+ or 3 for about $5 (if not for free, heaven knows i keep getting
offered the things...)
Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 perhaps...
-Lawrence LeMay
Reply to:
lgwalker(a)mts.net
24 Jan
24 Jan
6:28 a.m.
Someone has one on ebay right now:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1326232741
Better hurry, the bidding is already up to $1.25 !
-Lawrence LeMay
I guess you don't follow Epay very much. Since
the A-2s have started to
become scarce, II+'s have become a rising commodity. I'd be only very
happy to take any you get for that price off your hands and give you double
that. A black Bell and Howell would fetch well over a $100 even with the
downturn in the economy.
Lawrence
Thats starting to sound a bit like white-coat syndrome. These computers
are not rare artifacts to be hidden away behind glass walls, only to be
touched by the neophites in white lab coats, you know. Go ahead and
experiment, heck throw the completely wrong hardware in and cause a
major short circuit! And in so doing, know that you can always get another
apple ][+ or 3 for about $5 (if not for free, heaven knows i keep getting
offered the things...)
Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64 perhaps...
-Lawrence LeMay
Reply to:
lgwalker(a)mts.net
8:17 p.m.
It's up to $17.50 with 5 days to go. It should wind up in the $40-$50 range,
and of course it's not a B&H. Keep in mind also that things haven't recovered
from 9/11 yet. And there's no B&H one on.
Lawrence
Someone has one on ebay right now:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1326232741
Better hurry, the bidding is already up to $1.25 !
-Lawrence LeMay
> I guess you don't follow Epay very much. Since the A-2s have started to
> become scarce, II+'s have become a rising commodity. I'd be only very
> happy to take any you get for that price off your hands and give you double
> that. A black Bell and Howell would fetch well over a $100 even with the
> downturn in the economy.
>
> Lawrence
>
> >
> > Thats starting to sound a bit like white-coat syndrome. These computers are
> > not rare artifacts to be hidden away behind glass walls, only to be touched
> > by the neophites in white lab coats, you know. Go ahead and experiment, heck
> > throw the completely wrong hardware in and cause a major short circuit! And
> > in so doing, know that you can always get another apple ][+ or 3 for about
> > $5 (if not for free, heaven knows i keep getting offered the things...)
> >
> > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64
> > perhaps...
> >
> > -Lawrence LeMay
>
>
>
> Reply to:
> lgwalker(a)mts.net
>
Reply to:
lgwalker(a)mts.net
23 Jan
23 Jan
7:52 p.m.
Lawrence LeMay said:
Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64
perhaps...
Well, depends on the place. I've seen one Cray 1 in a private collection,
one IBM 360 (in the same place) and one Apple II.
It's a different thing for C64's though. But older Apples are really
hard to find over here (in .fi)
--
jht
24 Jan
24 Jan
1:09 a.m.
If they're popular enough in .fi, perhaps we can save a few landfills from
them by sending 'em to interested parties there.
An Apple IIe is not uncommonly priced at $5 around here (I just bought one
that had a couple of drives bundled with it for $8, though all I wanted was
the PSU) . A IIc is not uncommon at that price either. It's been a while
since I saw more than one ][+ in the same store, but those seldom cost more
than $10, and usually closer to $5. I would estimate that the freight would
exceed that amount by quite a little bit. Disk drives are often together with
these units, though that propels their cost into the $10-$12 range.
I can't recommend Apple Monitors, since those were really not available in the
Apple ][+ era. I've got an Apple IIe with a color monitor. The monitor ran
the price of the whole thing up to $20. The extra weight would probably run
the shipping cost to .fi into the ruinous range.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jarkko Teppo" <jarkko.teppo(a)er-grp.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 2:52 AM
Subject: Re: Apple II boards
Lawrence LeMay said:
Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64
perhaps...
Well, depends on the place. I've seen one Cray 1 in a private collection,
one IBM 360 (in the same place) and one Apple II.
It's a different thing for C64's though. But older Apples are really
hard to find over here (in .fi)
--
jht
7:59 a.m.
--- Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> wrote:
An Apple IIe is not uncommonly priced at $5 around
here (I just bought
one that had a couple of drives bundled with it for $8, though all I
wanted was the PSU) .
That sounds right... I'm about to go get a free one (rescue) this week,
in town, thankfully.
A IIc is not uncommon at that price either.
I've seen IIcs for a little more... the thrift stores here tend to
unbundle the PSU and the computer - and mark them for the same
price, sometimes. ISTR seeing a IIc for $5 and its PSU for $8
last year.
At the "top" of the spectrum, I got a IIc+ (4MHz CPU, modern serial
connectors (not like a IIc) and 3.5" internal drive) with monitor,
two imagewriters, an external 5.25" drive and manuals for $15 at
a Hamfest a couple of seasons ago. I didn't think that was out of
line. It also didn't sell until I got to that building at 13:00, so
nobody there thought it was the deal of the century, either.
-ethan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com
5:09 p.m.
Richard Erlacher said:
If they're popular enough in .fi, perhaps we can
save a few landfills
from them by sending 'em to interested parties there.
I'm not sure about other interested parties but I've always wanted
one. Maybe some day...
An Apple IIe is not uncommonly priced at $5 around here (I just bought
one that had a couple of drives bundled with it for $8, though all I
wanted was the PSU) . A IIc is not uncommon at that price either.
It's been a while since I saw more than one ][+ in the same store, but
those seldom cost more than $10, and usually closer to $5. I would
estimate that the freight would exceed that amount by quite a little
bit. Disk drives are often together with these units, though that
propels their cost into the $10-$12 range.
The freight is a definite problem. I once bought a few HP9K/300 items
(total weight around ~400 grams) and with the freight and the currency
transfer the price tripled from the original $20. And I didn't choose
overnight UPS delivery either as it took something like a few months.
It almost seems cheaper to fly there :-)
--
jht
11:40 p.m.
At 09:09 AM 1/25/2002 +0200, Jarkko Teppo wrote:
The freight is a definite problem. I once bought a few
HP9K/300 items
(total weight around ~400 grams) and with the freight and the currency
transfer the price tripled from the original $20. And I didn't choose
overnight UPS delivery either as it took something like a few months.
It almost seems cheaper to fly there :-)
I've always thought that there was great potential in
transoceanic transfer of old computer equipment. Right now,
it all seems to flow out of the US to China.
How much does it cost to send a cargo container from
London to San Francisco? Aren't there computer stores
or computer museums or computer clubs on both ends that
could make it happen profitably?
- John
25 Jan
25 Jan
12:07 a.m.
I've always thought that there was great potential
in
transoceanic transfer of old computer equipment. Right now,
it all seems to flow out of the US to China.
I've traded stuff with people in the UK and Australia and the
shipping wasn't too bad, but it was lighter stuff. I once sent a
collector in the UK both a TRS-80 Videotex terminal and a TI-99/4A in
return for a 48k Speccy, a Spectrum +2 and an Oric-1. Unfortunately
I never received the +2 or Oric-1. I've had really good luck sending
disks to as far away as Australia and Hungary. I tend to also move
stuff quite a bit between the US and Canada.
Jeff
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
3:04 a.m.
computer museums ... could make it happen profitably?
Are you advocating organizations registered, or presenting
themselves, as non profit organizations making a profit ?
Like this one? ...
http://www.threedee.com/jcm/about/index.html
http://www.threedee.com/jmosn/
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/jfoust@threedee.com/
John Foust wrote:
At 09:09 AM 1/25/2002 +0200, Jarkko Teppo wrote:
The freight is a definite problem. I once bought a
few HP9K/300 items
(total weight around ~400 grams) and with the freight and the currency
transfer the price tripled from the original $20. And I didn't choose
overnight UPS delivery either as it took something like a few months.
It almost seems cheaper to fly there :-)
I've always thought that there was great potential in
transoceanic transfer of old computer equipment. Right now,
it all seems to flow out of the US to China.
How much does it cost to send a cargo container from
London to San Francisco? Aren't there computer stores
or computer museums or computer clubs on both ends that
could make it happen profitably?
- John
3:16 a.m.
New subject: Non-profit reselling
At 12:04 PM 1/25/2002 -0500, Ian Koller wrote:
Who's representing themselves as non-profit? Not me. I have
web-only "museums". If you want to visit, you probably have
to promise to buy lunch and I'll walk you into the basement
for the guided tour. Watch out for spiders and centipedes.
Nowhere do I state that I or these museums are non-profit.
Are you aware that some museums are for-profit corporations?
In fact, even a "non-profit corporation" under US IRS law,
and under Wisconsin law that I've researched, can perform
a fair amount of fundraising, buying and resale (that is,
public sales dedicated to making money). You are limited
to the number of days per year you do it, and to total annual
amounts, and that the profits go to the group and not an
individual. This explains, for example, how an otherwise
non-profit organization can hold a rummage sale twice a year.
All of my for-pay consulting, sales, writing, junk buying and
reselling is under the umbrella of Syndesis Corporation, a
for-profit S-corp since 1987. So yes, I encourage for-profit
reselling of old computer equipment, whether it's by me or a
computer club. http://www.threedee.com/jcm/rescue/index.html
is much more explanatory than the links you mentioned, and
http://www.threedee.com/news/history.html is much more
entertaining.
I once researched this because at the UW-Madison / State of
Wisconsin surplus sales, non-profits can shop a day before
the public. This would allow me to pick up the good stuff
ahead of the usual suspects. I seem to remember that the
threshold was about $15,000 a year, but resale was limited
to a few days a year.
My antique computer buying and reselling could stay
below that limit. (Technical bonus question: does an eBay
auction count as 1 day or N days?) Also, I'd have to pay
about $500 to set up a true non-profit corporation, and
I'd need to recruit a legit Board to administer it.
I've never gone to the trouble.
- John
computer
museums ... could make it happen profitably?
Are you advocating organizations
registered, or presenting
themselves, as non profit organizations making a profit ?
Like this one? ...
http://www.threedee.com/jcm/about/index.html
http://www.threedee.com/jmosn/
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/jfoust@threedee.com/ 
24 Jan
24 Jan
1:58 p.m.
New subject: Non-profit reselling
John Foust wrote:
My antique computer buying and reselling could stay
below that limit. (Technical bonus question: does an eBay
auction count as 1 day or N days?) Also, I'd have to pay
about $500 to set up a true non-profit corporation, and
I'd need to recruit a legit Board to administer it.
I've never gone to the trouble.
I would say N days.
--
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html
25 Jan
25 Jan
5:49 a.m.
New subject: Non-profit reselling
So yes, I encourage for-profit reselling of old
computer
equipment, whether it's by me or a computer club.
Personally, I have no problem with this, but it would
seem to make the museum or club actually a dealer. And
this I also have no problem with, as long as the members
of the "for profit" computer club themselves are not
anti-commerce.
Gunther Schadow had an auction on eBay, and he had some
kind of "thing" about someone buying his item who might
want to make a little money on it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=…
So obviously, Gunther hates resellers. But he is a MD. And
around here MD's charge for their services, which makes them
dealers in medical services. Should everyone therefore reciprocate
by hating all MD's. Before Gunther, we would have said no.
After Gunther, well, you reap what you sow.
The point is that everyone is a dealer in something, be that
services or goods ( which is still actually a service, i.e. that
of providing goods ). Those that hate someone else because it
keeps them from getting what they want without any sacrifice on
their own part are showing themselves to be selfish free loaders.
Just something to consider.
John Foust wrote:
At 12:04 PM 1/25/2002 -0500, Ian Koller wrote:
Who's representing themselves as non-profit? Not me. I have
web-only "museums". If you want to visit, you probably have
to promise to buy lunch and I'll walk you into the basement
for the guided tour. Watch out for spiders and centipedes.
Nowhere do I state that I or these museums are non-profit.
Are you aware that some museums are for-profit corporations?
In fact, even a "non-profit corporation" under US IRS law,
and under Wisconsin law that I've researched, can perform
a fair amount of fundraising, buying and resale (that is,
public sales dedicated to making money). You are limited
to the number of days per year you do it, and to total annual
amounts, and that the profits go to the group and not an
individual. This explains, for example, how an otherwise
non-profit organization can hold a rummage sale twice a year.
All of my for-pay consulting, sales, writing, junk buying and
reselling is under the umbrella of Syndesis Corporation, a
for-profit S-corp since 1987. So yes, I encourage for-profit
reselling of old computer equipment, whether it's by me or a
computer club. http://www.threedee.com/jcm/rescue/index.html
is much more explanatory than the links you mentioned, and
http://www.threedee.com/news/history.html is much more
entertaining.
I once researched this because at the UW-Madison / State of
Wisconsin surplus sales, non-profits can shop a day before
the public. This would allow me to pick up the good stuff
ahead of the usual suspects. I seem to remember that the
threshold was about $15,000 a year, but resale was limited
to a few days a year.
My antique computer buying and reselling could stay
below that limit. (Technical bonus question: does an eBay
auction count as 1 day or N days?) Also, I'd have to pay
about $500 to set up a true non-profit corporation, and
I'd need to recruit a legit Board to administer it.
I've never gone to the trouble.
- John
computer
museums ... could make it happen profitably?
Are you advocating organizations
registered, or presenting
themselves, as non profit organizations making a profit ?
Like this one? ...
http://www.threedee.com/jcm/about/index.html
http://www.threedee.com/jmosn/
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/jfoust@threedee.com/ 
24 Jan
24 Jan
9:59 p.m.
New subject: Non-profit reselling
On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote:
Just something to consider.
Ian, consider this: you are annoying and off-topic. Go away and come back
with something relevant to say.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
25 Jan
25 Jan
7:36 a.m.
New subject: Non-profit reselling
Sellam,
Or is it Sam?
http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/1998-05/0760.html
Do you for a minute think I give a shit about what you want
or what you think? Wake up and smell the coffee pal. I actually
consider it a serious possibility your vcf is a front for your
business, and you are just running a scam. So piss the fuck off
asshole.
Sellam Ismail wrote:
On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote:
Just something to consider.
Ian, consider this: you are annoying and off-topic. Go away and come back
with something relevant to say.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
5:12 a.m.
New subject: Non-profit reselling
On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote:
Do you for a minute think I give a shit about what
you want or what
you think? Wake up and smell the coffee pal. I actually consider it a
serious possibility your vcf is a front for your business, and you are
just running a scam. So piss the fuck off asshole.
Gee, did someone just come to the realization that their dick is too
small?
The VCF *is* a business, genius.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
3:09 p.m.
New subject: Non-profit reselling
The VCF *is* a business, genius.
You've previously carefully avoided disclosing that fact.
It's a business that will never see one slim dime from us.
We would never recommend you to anyone. It's not because of
what you charge. You may be worth every bit of that. You
might even be worth ten times that. It's because in your
attempts to get ahead, you do it by trying to bring others
down. I bet if someone got a quote from you on a part, even
at the same time you were telling everyone on the list that
it wasn't worth shit, you'd be quoting it at a rate that
would make you a real living. You want to take your money in,
but we can tell you won't pay anyone else shit. You're a
one way fuck, and you know it. That's why we will never do
business with you.
Sellam Ismail wrote:
>
> On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote:
>
> > Do you for a minute think I give a shit about what you want or what
> > you think? Wake up and smell the coffee pal. I actually consider it a
> > serious possibility your vcf is a front for your business, and you are
> > just running a scam. So piss the fuck off asshole.
>
> Gee, did someone just come to the realization that their dick is too
> small?
>
The VCF *is* a business, genius.
>
> Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
>
> * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
3:49 p.m.
New subject: Non-profit reselling
Sellam, Ian,
IMHO, this kind of personal battle has absolutely no place on any
mailing list.
Please, would you both Do The Right Thing, and take it off-list?
Thank you very much.
Doc
26 Jan
26 Jan
10:21 a.m.
New subject: Non-profit reselling
That's already been done. I just ignored his last word.
Doc wrote:
Sellam, Ian,
IMHO, this kind of personal battle has absolutely no place on any
mailing list.
Please, would you both Do The Right Thing, and take it off-list?
Thank you very much.
Doc
25 Jan
25 Jan
3:57 p.m.
New subject: Non-profit reselling
On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote:
^^^^
Flames come. Flames go. The topic veers wildly off course and then back.
A lot of listmembers are interested in a lot of different areas; most are
intelligent, diverse folks who share a predeliction for retro-computing.
But I would prefer, Mr. Koller, that you disinclude myself from your
screeds and chip-on-the-shoulder rants. Sellam has done more for classic
computer collection than any one indivdual now working in the field. I
know there are a couple of organizations who also contribute mightily, but
Sellam works alone and with his own money. He and I are good friends, and
I can tell you that we disagree on several points, sometimes heatedly, but
that doesn't mean we can't laugh about it over dinner later.
Please speak for yourself. You are entitled to your own opinions and
feeling, but *I* don't remember electing you or appointing you for
anything regarding classiccmping, nor do I remember *you* asking *me* if
you could represent my own opinions... please remember this when choosing
your pronouns.
Since I'm ranting, I agree about eBay, I don't like time-delimited
'auctions'; a real auction is bid-activity delimited, but that's my
opinion, and I've stated it here more than once. I do not agree with you
on several of your other points, and, AFAIK, VCF has always been intended
as a business, the which business has cost Sellam a lot more money than
it's made. Not your money, Mr. Koller, not my money (though I've
participated) - Sellam's pocket started and ran and continues to run the
VCFs.
Here endeth the message: thanks for reading!
John
The VCF *is* a business, genius.
You've previously carefully avoided disclosing that fact.
It's a business that will never see one slim dime from us. We would never recommend you to anyone. It's not
because of
^^^^
4:04 p.m.
New subject: Non-profit reselling
On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote:
On Fri, 25 Jan 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote:
Who is this "we" you are speaking of? I certainly don't align myself with
*you*, Ian.
Since I joined this last last year, many of the posts I've seen from you
have been nothing more than personal attacks on others and other assorted
ranting and raving. You seem to feel the need to show off and show that
you are better than everyone else. I personally find your latest postings
offensive and imagine a good many others here on classiccmp do as well. If
you feel the need to use that kind of language, take it elsewhere!
And by the way, Ian, if you feel the need to reply to this email, do *not*
CC: it to me.
-Toth
The VCF *is* a business, genius.
You've previously carefully avoided disclosing that fact. It's a
business that will never see one slim dime from us. We would never
recommend you to anyone. It's not because of what you charge. You may
be worth every bit of that. You might even be worth ten times that.
It's because in your attempts to get ahead, you do it by trying to
bring others down. I bet if someone got a quote from you on a part,
even at the same time you were telling everyone on the list that it
wasn't worth shit, you'd be quoting it at a rate that would make you a
real living. You want to take your money in, but we can tell you won't
pay anyone else shit. You're a one way fuck, and you know it. That's
why we will never do business with you.
26 Jan
26 Jan
10:26 a.m.
New subject: Non-profit reselling
That we didn't include you. My comments aren't for everyone,
however, most of the time, there has been at least some that
found something beneficial in them, but you are welcome to
skip over them as you please.
Tothwolf wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote:
On Fri, 25 Jan 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote:
Who is this "we" you are speaking of? I certainly don't align myself with
*you*, Ian.
Since I joined this last last year, many of the posts I've seen from you
have been nothing more than personal attacks on others and other assorted
ranting and raving. You seem to feel the need to show off and show that
you are better than everyone else. I personally find your latest postings
offensive and imagine a good many others here on classiccmp do as well. If
you feel the need to use that kind of language, take it elsewhere!
And by the way, Ian, if you feel the need to reply to this email, do *not*
CC: it to me.
-Toth The VCF *is* a business, genius.
You've previously carefully avoided disclosing that fact. It's a
business that will never see one slim dime from us. We would never
recommend you to anyone. It's not because of what you charge. You may
be worth every bit of that. You might even be worth ten times that.
It's because in your attempts to get ahead, you do it by trying to
bring others down. I bet if someone got a quote from you on a part,
even at the same time you were telling everyone on the list that it
wasn't worth shit, you'd be quoting it at a rate that would make you a
real living. You want to take your money in, but we can tell you won't
pay anyone else shit. You're a one way fuck, and you know it. That's
why we will never do business with you.
12:33 p.m.
New subject: Non-profit reselling
On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote:
Tothwolf wrote:
Why did you CC: me anyway?
Anyhow, Plonk.
-Toth
On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote:
That we didn't include you. My comments aren't for everyone, however,
most of the time, there has been at least some that found something
beneficial in them, but you are welcome to skip over them as you
please. On Fri, 25 Jan 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote:
Who is this "we" you are speaking of? I certainly don't align myself with
*you*, Ian.
Since I joined this last last year, many of the posts I've seen from you
have been nothing more than personal attacks on others and other assorted
ranting and raving. You seem to feel the need to show off and show that
you are better than everyone else. I personally find your latest postings
offensive and imagine a good many others here on classiccmp do as well. If
you feel the need to use that kind of language, take it elsewhere!
And by the way, Ian, if you feel the need to reply to this email, do *not*
CC: it to me. The VCF *is* a business, genius.
You've previously carefully avoided disclosing that fact. It's a
business that will never see one slim dime from us. We would never
recommend you to anyone. It's not because of what you charge. You may
be worth every bit of that. You might even be worth ten times that.
It's because in your attempts to get ahead, you do it by trying to
bring others down. I bet if someone got a quote from you on a part,
even at the same time you were telling everyone on the list that it
wasn't worth shit, you'd be quoting it at a rate that would make you a
real living. You want to take your money in, but we can tell you won't
pay anyone else shit. You're a one way fuck, and you know it. That's
why we will never do business with you.
25 Jan
25 Jan
7:26 p.m.
New subject: Non-profit reselling
On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote:
When? Where? To whom? If it isn't apparent to you that the VCF is a
business then you are obviously as dumb as you come across in your
rantings.
The VCF *is* a
business, genius.
You've previously carefully avoided disclosing that fact. It's a business that will never see one slim dime
from us.
Us? What are you, the Borg? Despite your slim dime, it will make the VCF
no less profitable.
We would never recommend you to anyone.
Considering that you're Ian Koller (et al?) and what you do or do not do
or say has no consequence to my efforts whatsoever, I'm not too worried to
have lost your endorsement.
It's because in your attempts to get ahead, you do
it by trying to bring
others down.
I'm sorry, who's ass did you pull this out of?
I bet if someone got a quote from you on a part, even
at the same time you were telling everyone on the list that
it wasn't worth shit, you'd be quoting it at a rate that
would make you a real living. You want to take your money in,
but we can tell you won't pay anyone else shit.
Yeah, you're right. I've gotten rich off of selling old computer crap at
inflated prices. That's why I have a warehouse full of this stuff that
only seems to grow bigger by the month and I can barely afford my mortgage
right now.
You're a one way fuck, and you know it.
Actually, I fuck in many creative and exciting ways. But don't take my
word for it, ask my girlfriend.
That's why we will never do business with you.
We don't do business with The Borg anyway (nor schizophrenics for that
matter).
What an ass.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
26 Jan
26 Jan
5:38 a.m.
New subject: Non-profit reselling
It's a
business that will never see one slim dime from us.
Us? What are you, the Borg?
Despite your slim dime, it will make the VCF
no less profitable.
> We would never recommend you to anyone. > but we can tell you won't pay anyone else
shit.
I don't know Ian, nor what the current brouhaha is about.
But when I had to close my business, and get rid of many cubic yards of
stuff, Sellam was an immense help. He always acted with complete
integrity. Although the prices that he wants to pay may seem way too low
to some people, he freely advised me about who else to contact for selling
stuff, and even estimated what stuff would bring on e-bay!
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
10:18 a.m.
New subject: Non-profit reselling
different day, my tapeworm and I have no more time for it.
"Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote:
"The only folk that can legitimately use 'we' when
referring to themselves are editors, crowned heads of state,
and people with tapeworm." - Mark Twain
I haven't seen a published periodical nor trappings of royalty. I guess
that we'll have to take his word for it.
It's
a business that will never see one slim dime from us.
Us? What are you, the Borg?
Despite your slim dime, it will make the VCF
no less profitable.
> We would never recommend you to anyone. > but we can tell you won't pay anyone
else shit.
I don't know Ian, nor what the current brouhaha is about.
But when I had to close my business, and get rid of many cubic yards of
stuff, Sellam was an immense help. He always acted with complete
integrity. Although the prices that he wants to pay may seem way too low
to some people, he freely advised me about who else to contact for selling
stuff, and even estimated what stuff would bring on e-bay!
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com 
25 Jan
25 Jan
8:18 a.m.
New subject: Non-profit reselling
And thusly Ian Koller spake:
or what you think? Wake up and smell the coffee pal. I actually
consider it a serious possibility your vcf is a front for your
business, and you are just running a scam. So piss the fuck off
asshole.
So what if it is a business?! If Sellam wasn't doing VCF, there would not have
been a show last July in Boston! A lot of people (myself included) would not
have been able to see a working PDP computer running Space War. And not to
mention all the other exhibits! Oh there is also all the speakers he had...
I volunteered to help in the show. Why? Because I love old computers and
would do most anything to help this type of event. Did Sellam make money off
me because he didn't have to pay me? I don't give a flying f*** if he did.
This is about the classic computers. Is he promoting retro-computing? Yes!
Is he ripping people off in the process? NO!
Anyways, that is my take on it.
Cheers,
Bryan
Sellam Ismail wrote:
On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Ian Koller wrote:
Just something to consider.
Ian, consider this: you are annoying and off-topic. Go away and come back
with something relevant to say.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * 
10:49 a.m.
New subject: Non-profit reselling
One more vote for Sellam.
The show was decent for the turnout, several exhibitors had
equipment I thought I'd never see again. The speakers were
excellent, of A+ quality. My financial involvement was this:
bought two tickets, one t-shirt, drove 1200 miles, no kick-back
required. The DEC thinnet repeater and IBM portable are
considered great deals at $6/both.
And Bryan, you deserved a free sandwich at the very least.
John A.
1:24 p.m.
New subject: Non-profit reselling
And thusly John Allain spake:
One more vote for Sellam.
The show was decent for the turnout, several exhibitors had
equipment I thought I'd never see again. The speakers were
excellent, of A+ quality. My financial involvement was this:
I guess even the Byte guy - He brought eccentricity to a whole new level! :)
bought two tickets, one t-shirt, drove 1200 miles, no
kick-back
required. The DEC thinnet repeater and IBM portable are
considered great deals at $6/both.
I got "The Complete Commodore Inner Space Anthology" :) Put out by the same
people who did the Transactor magazine. (Oh, and it is Canadian too!)
Anyways, I used to have one when I had my original 64 setup. Great
reference book! :-D
(But I found out that the original author has reprinted them!)
And Bryan, you deserved a free sandwich at the very least.
Jim Beam would be fine! ;)
Cheers,
Bryan
26 Jan
26 Jan
10:44 a.m.
New subject: Favorite 5.25's
Hi, I'm about to toss some PC stuff and I really
don't know one 5.25 FDD from another. What are
people's favorite manufacturers and model's?
Are there more distinctions than just LD/HD?
Revealing my stupidity: Can any/all do RX50
formatting? I realize one thing, that HD writes
on LD drives are suboptimal.
I used to live near my companies' PC help desk,
so there'll be quite a few available.
They were "3.5 centric".
John A.
11:01 a.m.
New subject: Favorite 5.25's
Hi, I'm about to toss some PC stuff and I really
don't know one 5.25 FDD from another. What are
people's favorite manufacturers and model's?
Are there more distinctions than just LD/HD?
My favorite 5.25" mech is the Mitsubishi M4853 or M4853-1.
Doubtful you'd have any of them though since they are DSQD drives!
Jeff
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
11:03 a.m.
New subject: Favorite 5.25's
--- John Allain <allain(a)panix.com> wrote:
Hi, I'm about to toss some PC stuff and I really
don't know one 5.25 FDD from another. What are
people's favorite manufacturers and model's?
Teac FD55GFR - it can be strapped for a PC-AT or to become a DEC RX33.
Are there more distinctions than just LD/HD?
Full-height, half-height... 100tpi, 96tpi... those are the biggies.
-ethan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com
11:05 a.m.
New subject: Favorite 5.25's
OK, ok.
... " that LD writes on HD drives are suboptimal."
25 Jan
25 Jan
6:46 a.m.
New subject: Non-profit reselling
At 02:49 PM 1/25/02 -0500, Ian wrote:
238961
Quoted from Gunther's auction >> "Woops! I should have noted earlier that
I'm going to cancel bids from people who are obviously ebay resellers and
take advantage of a sluggish economy to stock up. I sell with NO RESERVE
and would hate to have a good deal not go to an end-user. Especially with
DEC stuff."
Hmmm. Since he obviously didn't make this cable then doesn't that make
him an E-bay reseller? Doesn't that stkike anybody else as being
hypocritical?
Joe
So yes, I encourage for-profit reselling of old
computer
equipment, whether it's by me or a computer club.
Personally, I have no problem with this, but it would
seem to make the museum or club actually a dealer. And
this I also have no problem with, as long as the members
of the "for profit" computer club themselves are not
anti-commerce.
Gunther Schadow had an auction on eBay, and he had some
kind of "thing" about someone buying his item who might
want to make a little money on it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=…
1:31 a.m.
I saw something on the news last evening that said there's some European
airline that's selling tickets from London to somewhere on the continent for
about $15. At rates like that, you might be right about it being cheaper to
fly.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jarkko Teppo" <jarkko.teppo(a)er-grp.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 12:09 AM
Subject: Re: Apple II boards
Richard Erlacher said:
If they're popular enough in .fi, perhaps we
can save a few landfills
from them by sending 'em to interested parties there.
I'm not sure about other interested parties but I've always wanted
one. Maybe some day...
An Apple IIe is not uncommonly priced at $5 around here (I just bought
one that had a couple of drives bundled with it for $8, though all I
wanted was the PSU) . A IIc is not uncommon at that price either.
It's been a while since I saw more than one ][+ in the same store, but
those seldom cost more than $10, and usually closer to $5. I would
estimate that the freight would exceed that amount by quite a little
bit. Disk drives are often together with these units, though that
propels their cost into the $10-$12 range.
The freight is a definite problem. I once bought a few HP9K/300 items
(total weight around ~400 grams) and with the freight and the currency
transfer the price tripled from the original $20. And I didn't choose
overnight UPS delivery either as it took something like a few months.
It almost seems cheaper to fly there :-)
--
jht
24 Jan
24 Jan
2:12 a.m.
Cmon, what
could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64
perhaps...
Well, depends on the place. I've seen one Cray 1 in a private collection,
one IBM 360 (in the same place) and one Apple II.
It's a different thing for C64's though. But older Apples are really
hard to find over here (in .fi)
3:05 a.m.
see below, plz.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cameron Kaiser" <spectre(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: Apple II boards
> > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable
than an Apple ][+? A C64
> > perhaps...
>
<snip>
Now, remember -- the fact that C64s are cheap does not make them any less
valuable. ;-)
Perhaps, but the fact that they were cheap when they were on the market means
that they were not intended to be "rare" and they probably won't be for some
time.
There are lots of definitions of "valuable" but I think the most widely
accepted one ties "value" to what you can get for it on the open market.
C64's are common in the crusher bin behind the thrift stores, so they probably
crush more than they sell, even at the $5 price. In fact, Commodore disk
drives often sell for more than Commodore computers do. I've never owned or
even wanted one, but I find that odd.
--
----------------------------- personal page:
http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University *
ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- Death to spammers!
http://spam.abuse.net/spam/ -----------------------------
5:14 p.m.
Cameron Kaiser said:
Now, remember -- the fact that C64s are cheap does not make them any
less valuable. ;-)
I know :-) I've gotten some really good offers on the two Action Replay
carts that I have. I had some really good luck with Commodore machines as
I stumbled upon the bankcrupty sale of the Finnish importer around
1991/1992 and I found a really good pile of machines/disk drives/carts
from a "recycling center".
I just need to find that mythical 1581.
--
jht
4:15 a.m.
New subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
Careful now! ... Current printers won't work properly with any of the pre-ECP
computers of the '70's, will they? Once IBM started fiddling with the Epson
version of the Centronics interface, the "old" types were orphaned. My old
Ampro won't even talk to a current (post-1985) "Centronics" printer since it
doesn't support all the signals that those guys expected to see. I had to
disconnect several lines in a cable just to get a late-'80's printer to work
at all with the old Ampro Little Board.
Current generation monitors won't work with the old NTSC-compatible computers
either. You have to have the old-style NTSC monitor, or a TV with a video
input. Those old LEEDEX or BALL monitors are really scarce these days. If
you want an authentic or even authentic-looking system, you've got to have the
right sort of monitor.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <cisin(a)xenosoft.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 10:55 AM
Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
Lawrence LeMay said:
Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than
an Apple ][+? A C64
perhaps...
monitors!
non-current printers
4:47 a.m.
New subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
> > Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable
than an Apple ][+? A C64
> > perhaps...
> monitors!
> non-current printers
On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote:
Careful now! ... Current printers won't work
properly with any of the pre-ECP
. . .
Current generation monitors won't work with the old NTSC-compatible computers
When I closed up my office, I could find people who wanted everything
else, from old magazines and newspapers, books, files of clippings,
internal documents, schematics, even marketing materials from defunct
companies, furniture, empty binders with company names on the spines,
computers, unidentifiable circuit boards, 8 inch drives, Syquest drives,
modems, weird cables, T shirts, trade show freebie crap, . . .
I had a very difficult time getting anybody to take FREE monitors and FREE
printers. The only way that I could get anybody to take them was to start
boxing them up with S100 cards, etc. and making unbreakable package deals.
2:22 a.m.
New subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
When I closed up my office, I could find people who
wanted everything
else, from old magazines and newspapers, books, files of clippings,
internal documents, schematics, even marketing materials from defunct
companies, furniture, empty binders with company names on the spines,
computers, unidentifiable circuit boards, 8 inch drives, Syquest drives,
modems, weird cables, T shirts, trade show freebie crap, . . .
That's not so strange when you consider all this material will be (if it
isn't already) highly historic and useful for research in the future
(which is why I took all that "crap" :)
I had a very difficult time getting anybody to take
FREE monitors and FREE
printers. The only way that I could get anybody to take them was to start
boxing them up with S100 cards, etc. and making unbreakable package deals.
Well, I also collect various printers, monitors, and terminals. I'm
weird. But boring as they are, it's all part of the record, and needs
preserving.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
8:17 p.m.
New subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
I tend to do the same thing, only special types of them such an Epson
LK1500 wide carriage that would use Sideways Software(labeled "this printer
prints sideways") or a Vic 20 color plotter. Different types of printers,
monitors, and other "examples" of the technology of the time. Not in the
same league as your or John Keys collection of course.
Lawrence.
On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
Reply to:
lgwalker(a)mts.net
When I closed up my office, I could find people
who wanted everything
else, from old magazines and newspapers, books, files of clippings,
internal documents, schematics, even marketing materials from defunct
companies, furniture, empty binders with company names on the spines,
computers, unidentifiable circuit boards, 8 inch drives, Syquest drives,
modems, weird cables, T shirts, trade show freebie crap, . . .
That's not so strange when you consider all this material will be (if it
isn't already) highly historic and useful for research in the future
(which is why I took all that "crap" :)
I had a very difficult time getting anybody to
take FREE monitors and FREE
printers. The only way that I could get anybody to take them was to start
boxing them up with S100 cards, etc. and making unbreakable package deals.
Well, I also collect various printers, monitors, and terminals. I'm
weird. But boring as they are, it's all part of the record, and needs
preserving.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
25 Jan
25 Jan
1:51 a.m.
New subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
I second the last statement about the to collect monitors, printers, and
etc., I too have tons of these items but hope to trim it to just the
working items this summer.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sellam Ismail" <foo(a)siconic.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
it
On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
> When I closed up my office, I could find people who wanted
everything
> else, from old magazines and newspapers, books,
files of clippings,
> internal documents, schematics, even marketing materials from
defunct
> companies, furniture, empty binders with company
names on the
spines,
> computers, unidentifiable circuit boards, 8 inch
drives, Syquest
drives,
modems, weird
cables, T shirts, trade show freebie crap, . . .
That's not so strange when you consider all this material will be (if isn't already) highly historic and useful for
research in the future
(which is why I took all that "crap" :)
> I had a very difficult time getting anybody to take FREE monitors
and FREE
> printers. The only way that I could get anybody
to take them was to
start
> boxing them up with S100 cards, etc. and making
unbreakable package
deals.
Well, I also collect various printers, monitors, and terminals. I'm
weird. But boring as they are, it's all part of the record, and needs
preserving.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer
Festival
----------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger
http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at
www.VintageTech.com *
24 Jan
24 Jan
4:51 a.m.
New subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
Careful now! ... Current printers won't work properly with any of the pre-ECP
computers of the '70's, will they? Once IBM started fiddling with the Epson
version of the Centronics interface, the "old" types were orphaned. My old
Ampro won't even talk to a current (post-1985) "Centronics" printer since
it
doesn't support all the signals that those guys expected to see. I had to
disconnect several lines in a cable just to get a late-'80's printer to work
at all with the old Ampro Little Board.
Are there any companies out there still making dot-matrix tractor-feed
printers?
Current generation monitors won't work with the old NTSC-compatible computers
either. You have to have the old-style NTSC monitor, or a TV with a video
input. Those old LEEDEX or BALL monitors are really scarce these days. If
you want an authentic or even authentic-looking system, you've got to have the
right sort of monitor.
Ha! My 1902a monitor attached to my C128 just got a little more valuable! ;)
Is it just me or is the screen not as clear on the 1902a (when the 128 is in
64 mode) as I remember my 64 hooked up to a 1702?
Cheers,
Bryan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <cisin(a)xenosoft.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 10:55 AM
Subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
Lawrence LeMay said:
Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than
an Apple ][+? A C64
perhaps...
monitors!
non-current printers
4:21 a.m.
New subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
Are there any companies out there still making
dot-matrix tractor-feed
printers?
There must be since plenty of companies, including Canon,
still use them for printing invoices on multipart carbonless paper.
Wasn't Epson still making inexpensive dot-matrix printers up until
fairly recently?
Jeff
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
6:23 a.m.
New subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
At 01:51 PM 1/24/2002 -0500, Bryan Pope wrote:
Are there any companies out there still making
dot-matrix tractor-feed
printers?
There are businesses who still insist on using them to
print fan-fold multi-part forms and checks. Just now
there's a message on my answering machine from a business
who needs a replacement for the last (used) one I found
for them.
I know there are laser-friendly check forms, and anyone printing
multiple forms could just as easily print N copies, but to
get that nifty colored paper "the blue ones go to accounting"
feature, you'd need a laser printer and software with the ability
to pull colored paper from separate trays.
Once you start digging this deep, though, you might start
asking why so many businesses still rely on paper, and that
may cause you to question deeply-held beliefs such as that
computers are or are not trustworthy for doing business.
- John
7:16 a.m.
New subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Bryan Pope wrote:
Are there any companies out there still making
dot-matrix tractor-feed
printers?
Doesn't Okidata still build them? I'm pretty sure they still make
replacement parts. Lots of businesses still use them for
dup-trip-licate forms. Notably pawnshops. Every hock shop in this
county has 2 or 3 Okidata 320 printers.
Doc
12:13 p.m.
New subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
Ha! My 1902a monitor attached to my C128 just got a
little more valuable! ;)
Is it just me or is the screen not as clear on the 1902a (when the 128 is in
64 mode) as I remember my 64 hooked up to a 1702?
I myself find my 1902's image inferior to the picture I got from the trusty
1702. These 1702s are becoming so popular because of their good quality and
reliability (if it's physically intact, it's virtually guaranteed to work)
that I'm seeing some ridiculous prices on them. People grab them for old game
consoles, too.
--
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- The idea is to die young as late as possible. -- Ashley Montagu ------------
1:31 p.m.
New subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
Cameron Kaiser wrote:
I seem to remember the 1902 and the Amiga 1080 were the same monitor,
but I could be wrong. The 1702 was a JVC monitor with commodore's name
on it.
You might be getting a weary, or gassy CRT, that would explain why it is
bleary. AFAIK they shuld be pretty much equivalent in visual
performance.
Gary Hildebrand
Ha! My 1902a monitor attached to my C128 just
got a little more valuable! ;)
Is it just me or is the screen not as clear on the 1902a (when the 128 is in
64 mode) as I remember my 64 hooked up to a 1702?
I myself find my 1902's image inferior to the picture I got from the trusty
1702. These 1702s are becoming so popular because of their good quality and
reliability (if it's physically intact, it's virtually guaranteed to work)
that I'm seeing some ridiculous prices on them. People grab them for old game
consoles, too.
--
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- The idea is to die young as late as possible. -- Ashley Montagu ------------
4:27 p.m.
New subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
> I myself find my 1902's image inferior to the
picture I got from the trusty
> 1702. These 1702s are becoming so popular because of their good quality and
> reliability (if it's physically intact, it's virtually guaranteed to work)
> that I'm seeing some ridiculous prices on them. People grab them for old
> game consoles, too.
I seem to remember the 1902 and the Amiga 1080 were
the same monitor,
but I could be wrong. The 1702 was a JVC monitor with commodore's name
on it.
As a matter of fact, the 1701 and 1702 are JVC TM-13Us, if memory serves.
I've seen them in use at the medical school.
You might be getting a weary, or gassy CRT, that would
explain why it is
bleary. AFAIK they shuld be pretty much equivalent in visual
performance.
Not so much indistinct as the 1702's picture is more vivid. (No, I don't
think it's a matter of having the tint control too low :-)
For my money, the 1084 is the same way, but many people swear by them. I
like them better than the 1902 series, but I still prefer the 1702.
--
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- FORTUNE: You can overcome any obstacle. Try a steeplechase. ----------------
8:32 p.m.
New subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
Cameron Kaiser wrote:
Not so much indistinct as the 1702's picture is
more vivid. (No, I don't
think it's a matter of having the tint control too low :-)
That's the magic word there . . . and that is due to using different
phosphors. I've seen some CRT's with a reddish-orange phosphor for
'red' and that would tend to give a better rendition on human flesh.
And that would sell the television set.
Gary Hildebrand
11:17 p.m.
New subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
I seem to remember the 1902 and the Amiga 1080 were the
same monitor,
but I could be wrong. The 1702 was a JVC monitor with commodore's name
on it.
I rather like my 1080. I use it for everything from
attaching it to my Amiga 1000 or 500 to using it with various game
consoles or for displaying video sources such as VCR's, video cameras
and anything else that it's multiple inputs will handle.
Jeff
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
8:17 p.m.
New subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
They also make a pretty good color tv when hooked to a VCR as the tuner.
I've got 2 1702s, 2 different models of 1802s, and an 2002, still not sure
which I prefer since each has specific good features. The 2002 seems to be
the best on the Amiga 2000 tho. Unfortunately I don't have a 1084.
Reply to:
lgwalker(a)mts.net
Ha! My 1902a
monitor attached to my C128 just got a little more valuable! ;)
Is it just me or is the screen not as clear on the 1902a (when the 128 is in
64 mode) as I remember my 64 hooked up to a 1702?
I myself find my 1902's image inferior to the picture I got from the trusty
1702. These 1702s are becoming so popular because of their good quality and
reliability (if it's physically intact, it's virtually guaranteed to work) that
I'm seeing some ridiculous prices on them. People grab them for old game
consoles, too.
--
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- The idea is to die young as late as possible. -- Ashley Montagu ------------
4:41 a.m.
New subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
"Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote:
Lawrence LeMay said:
Win-modems and win-printers.
--
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html
Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than
an Apple ][+? A C64
perhaps...
monitors!
non-current printers
5:05 a.m.
New subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
"Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote:
Lawrence LeMay said:
Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than
an Apple ][+? A C64
perhaps...
monitors!
non-current printers Win-modems and win-printers.
I meant having the least monetary value. You're talking about being TRULY
worthless.
4:50 a.m.
New subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
I could see a ][+ being valuable. I've never seen one, for example.
//e's and //gs's show up a Goodwill from time to time, but I've never
seen a ][+ anywhere. If I were big into Apple hardware, I'd be willing
to pay more for one. Since I started on a //e I'm quite happy with
that, However.
Monitors worth less..... I wish someone would tell that to my local
Goodwill. Every time they get a decent one, they want megabucks for it!
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA
"Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote:
Lawrence LeMay said:
Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than
an Apple ][+? A C64
perhaps...
monitors!
non-current printers 
8:06 a.m.
New subject: Dot matrix printer ribbons (was Re: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards)
--- "Jeffrey S. Sharp" <jss(a)subatomix.com> wrote:
Lawrence LeMay said:
I have a box of those - strangely enough for the AppleII and the C-64 -
they are really NOS, but _I've_ had them for 10 years. I have no idea
if the ink still contains enough solvent to transfer, but at least the
cloth is unused.
If anyone is looking for vintage 1988 dot matrix ribbons for things
like the Imagewriter and/or CBM printers, let me know and I'll dig through
the box to see what models are represented. I figure a buck each plus
shipping ought to provide enough motivation to go digging.
-ethan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com
Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than
an Apple ][+? A C64
perhaps...
Old printer ribbons.
9:33 a.m.
New subject: Dot matrix printer ribbons (was Re: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards)
I have a box of those - strangely enough for the
AppleII and the C-64 -
they are really NOS, but _I've_ had them for 10 years. I have no idea
if the ink still contains enough solvent to transfer, but at least the
cloth is unused.
If anyone is looking for vintage 1988 dot matrix ribbons for things
like the Imagewriter and/or CBM printers, let me know and I'll dig through
the box to see what models are represented. I figure a buck each plus
shipping ought to provide enough motivation to go digging.
-ethan
I'm interested, in ribbons for the cmmodore 1526, same as my Mannesman
Talley Spirit-80. And anything for a Star NX10 if they are still around
. . . . thanks in advance.
Gary Hildebrand
St. Joseph, MO
8:13 a.m.
New subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
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26 Jan
26 Jan
7:45 a.m.
New subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
On Thu, Jan 24, 2002 at 10:13:02PM +0000, Tony Duell wrote:
For HPIB you might try to look for the HP ThinkJet, it's available with
a HPIB interface too. It's a simple inkjet, with a quality comparable to
a 9 pin dot matrix printer. They are no longer made, of course, to you
should look for it the at the usual places for old hardware (including
EBay, where you also can get the ink for more reasonable (just paid $20
for 8 ink cartridges - the regular price seems to be around $ 20-25
for a single one) prices).
Regards,
Alex.
--
9./10. M?rz: 4. Chemnitzer Linux-Tag http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/linux/tag/
"I sense much NT in you. NT leads to Blue Screen, Blue Screen leads to
downtime, downtime leads to suffering. NT is the path to the Dark Side."
-- Ellsworth, one small voice
Lawrence LeMay said:
> Cmon, what could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64
> perhaps...
[...]
non-current printers
Well, if anyone knows a source of HPIL printers, or even good HPIB ones
(in the UK, please), let me know. They are a lot more valuable than C64s,
etc, and there's no obvious replacement still being made...
8:07 a.m.
New subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
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11:17 a.m.
New subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
On Sat, Jan 26, 2002 at 10:07:15PM +0000, Tony Duell wrote:
I found some sources of the ink cartridges on the net, but most were
selling them at rather high prices (around $25) - but you might get
lucky on Ebay. Just recently I managed to get a set of 8 ink cartridges
for $15 on ebay.de - together with the two I managed to get there
earlier I now have a reserve of 10 ink cartridges, which should last me
quite some time. I even found the manual for the printer there for
$1 ;-)
Regards,
Alex.
--
9./10. M?rz: 4. Chemnitzer Linux-Tag http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/linux/tag/
"I sense much NT in you. NT leads to Blue Screen, Blue Screen leads to
downtime, downtime leads to suffering. NT is the path to the Dark Side."
-- Ellsworth, one small voice
should look
for it the at the usual places for old hardware (including=20
The problem with the Thinkjet, at least over here, is that the ink
cartridges are impossible to obtain. Nobody lists them, or can get them
(at least not that I've found). Are they even still being made?
11:17 a.m.
New subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
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27 Jan
27 Jan
4:04 a.m.
New subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
On Sun, Jan 27, 2002 at 01:17:55AM +0000, Tony Duell wrote:
No, in Germany - I just translated all the prices to US $ because I
guess that most folks on this list are from the US of A. I'm living
in Germany and located (and bought) all the HP ThinkJet stuff there.
That might also depend on the storage conditions. All the ink cartridges
for the ThinkJet that I have are - as far as I can tell without actually
putting them into the printer - in perfect condition. Just stored dry
and at room temperature.
It says "Owners Manual" on the front.
I found some
sources of the ink cartridges on the net, but most were
selling them at rather high prices (around $25) - but you might get
And presumably that's in the States, so I'd have shipping to pay on top
:-(. lucky on Ebay.
Just recently I managed to get a set of 8 ink cartridges
for $15 on ebay.de - together with the two I managed to get there
earlier I now have a reserve of 10 ink cartridges, which should last me
I've seen these cartridges fail in storage (even unopened) -- the
aluminium (?) front of the 'printhead' section corroded away (large hole,
relatively, in it). So it may not be a good idea to stock up too much. quite some
time. I even found the manual for the printer there for
$1 ;-)
User, or service manual? The first part of the former is all pictures with almost no text. It took me a _long_ time to
figure out what some of
It _does_ contain quite a lot of pictures, especially in the first half
of the manual. But the second half of it is a reference manual which
contains things like the escape sequences needed to control the printer
and basically everything I need should I feel the urge to write a custom
driver for it.
Regards,
Alex.
--
9./10. M?rz: 4. Chemnitzer Linux-Tag http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/linux/tag/
"I sense much NT in you. NT leads to Blue Screen, Blue Screen leads to
downtime, downtime leads to suffering. NT is the path to the Dark Side."
-- Ellsworth, one small voice
8:31 a.m.
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26 Jan
26 Jan
8:24 a.m.
New subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
For HPIB you might try to look for the HP ThinkJet,
it's available with
a HPIB interface too. It's a simple inkjet, with a quality comparable to
a 9 pin dot matrix printer. They are no longer made, of course, to you
should look for it the at the usual places for old hardware (including
EBay, where you also can get the ink for more reasonable (just paid $20
for 8 ink cartridges - the regular price seems to be around $ 20-25
for a single one) prices).
Nice little printer....very compact too. It was my first
exposure to inkjet printers. It was available with a number of
different interfaces, including parallel and HPIB. I think it was
also available with a serial interface as well. Wasn't there a
version that was battery powered? I often wish I still had one.
Jeff
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
9:29 a.m.
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11:06 a.m.
New subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
Nice little
printer....very compact too. It was my first
exposure to inkjet printers. It was available with a number of
different interfaces, including parallel and HPIB. I think it was
Originally there were 4 models :
10:35 a.m.
New subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote:
The Diconix (later Kodak) uses the same ink cartridges, and IS battery
powered, with C cells INSIDE the platen.
I have a few (FS)
I also have a few thinkjets (FS). I think that they're all parallel port
("Centronics" :-) and some "Quietjet"? ones. I can check what I
have on
Monday if you are interested.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
For HPIB you
might try to look for the HP ThinkJet, it's available with
Nice little
printer....very compact too. It was my first
exposure to inkjet printers. It was available with a number of
different interfaces, including parallel and HPIB. I think it was
also available with a serial interface as well. Wasn't there a
version that was battery powered? I often wish I still had one.
2:50 p.m.
New subject: Battery powered printers (was Re: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards)
--- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> wrote:
The Diconix (later Kodak) uses the same ink
cartridges, and IS battery
powered, with C cells INSIDE the platen.
We had those on the Ice to send out to the field with scientists. I
seem to recall lots of clog problems, but our environment was so dry
that even HP LaserPrinters had problems (paper dust/toner accumulation
was horrendous below 10% RH)
-ethan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com
2:50 p.m.
New subject: Battery powered printers (was Re: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards)
--- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> wrote:
The Diconix (later Kodak) uses the same ink
cartridges, and IS battery
powered, with C cells INSIDE the platen.
We had those on the Ice to send out to the field with scientists. I
seem to recall lots of clog problems, but our environment was so dry
that even HP LaserPrinters had problems (paper dust/toner accumulation
was horrendous below 10% RH)
-ethan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com
25 Jan
25 Jan
12:03 p.m.
New subject: LEAST valuable collectibles (was: Apple II boards
On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
Current generation PCs. And then 99.999% of all old PCs which have
actually /negative/ value.
-brian.
Lawrence LeMay said:
Cmon, what
could possibly be less valuable than an Apple ][+? A C64
perhaps...
monitors!
non-current printers
24 Jan
24 Jan
7:11 a.m.
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8682
days inactive
8686
days old
79 comments
27 participants
participants (27)
-
allain＠panix.com -
als＠thangorodrim.de -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
bpope＠wordstock.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
csmith＠amdocs.com -
doc＠mdrconsult.com -
edick＠idcomm.com -
erd_6502＠yahoo.com -
fernande＠internet1.net -
foo＠siconic.com -
ghldbrd＠ccp.com -
jarkko.teppo＠er-grp.com -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
jhellige＠earthlink.net -
jpl15＠panix.com -
jrkeys＠concentric.net -
jss＠subatomix.com -
lemay＠cs.umn.edu -
lgwalker＠mts.net -
rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com -
spectre＠stockholm.ptloma.edu -
tothwolf＠concentric.net -
vaxzilla＠jarai.org -
vze2mnvr＠verizon.net -
vze2wsvr＠verizon.net