11 Sep
2015
11 Sep
'15
12:03 p.m.
From: Dave G4UGM
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2015 12:06 PM
> From: Liam Proven
> Sent: 10 September 2015 16:17
> On 10 September 2015 at 15:42, Fred Cisin
<cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote:
>> He also said that the colored pencils that I
manually did graphs with
>> were "COLOUR PENCILS".
> Sounds legit to me. But then in the old world we
still spell the proper,
> old-fashioned-way. ;?)
I believe that historically "color" or
"colour" was acceptable in English.
Correct. "Colour" reflects Norman French, "color" reflects Latin.
It was the Victorians that pushed the current
"English" spellings in an
attempt to "Latinise" or "Latinize" or even "Posh Up"
English and Webster
who pushed the simplified spellings that the USA uses today....
However, it was far earlier than the Victorians. Noah Webster (1758-1843)
only overlaps the Victorian era by 6 years; he was reacting against the
aristocratic spelling norms of the 17th and 18th centuries, when Latin and
Greek were held to be more important than English in the learning of the
latter language. His spelling book was originally published in 1783.
Rich
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computer Museum
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134
mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org
http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/
11 Sep
11 Sep
2:43 p.m.
On 09/11/2015 12:03 PM, Rich Alderson wrote:
However, it was far earlier than the Victorians. Noah
Webster
(1758-1843) only overlaps the Victorian era by 6 years; he was
reacting against the aristocratic spelling norms of the 17th and 18th
centuries, when Latin and Greek were held to be more important than
English in the learning of the latter language. His spelling book
was originally published in 1783.
It should be noted that neither Webster, nor Col. McCormick (he of the
Chicago Tribune simplified spelling) got all of what they wanted.
Webster wanted spellings of "ake", "soop", "cloke",
"wimmen"...
The NEA in the 1890s accounted for "catalog", "prolog",
"program"...
Then there was the Simplified Spelling Board of 1906, advocated by
Andrew Carnegie and Theodore Roosevelt. Congress didn't much care for
the 300-word list, but some spellings made it into modern usage.
"Meter", "maneuver", "orthopedic", "omelet",
"sulfate", "wagon" are
among those.
Thus, US spelling has been a work in progress.
To their credit, even the English have adopted some of these. How many
British write "aera" for "era" nowadays?
--Chuck
3:58 p.m.
On Fri, 11 Sep 2015, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 09/11/2015 12:03 PM, Rich Alderson wrote:
This discussion reminds me of this quote:
"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that
English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words;
on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and riffle their pockets for new vocabulary."
:)
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its
kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
However, it was far earlier than the Victorians.
Noah Webster
(1758-1843) only overlaps the Victorian era by 6 years; he was
reacting against the aristocratic spelling norms of the 17th and 18th
centuries, when Latin and Greek were held to be more important than
English in the learning of the latter language. His spelling book
was originally published in 1783.
It should be noted that neither Webster, nor Col. McCormick (he of the
Chicago Tribune simplified spelling) got all of what they wanted.
Webster wanted spellings of "ake", "soop", "cloke",
"wimmen"...
The NEA in the 1890s accounted for "catalog", "prolog",
"program"...
Then there was the Simplified Spelling Board of 1906, advocated by Andrew
Carnegie and Theodore Roosevelt. Congress didn't much care for the 300-word
list, but some spellings made it into modern usage. "Meter",
"maneuver",
"orthopedic", "omelet", "sulfate", "wagon" are
among those.
Thus, US spelling has been a work in progress.
17 Sep
17 Sep
1:58 p.m.
From: geneb
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 3:58 PM
This discussion reminds me of this quote:
"The problem with defending the purity of the
English language is that
English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words;
on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and riffle their pockets for new vocabulary."
Ah, yes, James Nicoll. I was a regular reader (and occasional contributor)
to rec.arts.sf-lovers when he wrote that (15 May 1990). It was, amusingly
enough, part of an off-topic subthread that started with a post entitled
"Drugs in SF" started on 3 May 1990!
(The long thread is a great read. Plug "43945 at iuvax.cs.indiana.edu" into
the advanced search box of Google Groups to resurrect it.)
Imagine that, thread drift...
Rich
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computer Museum
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134
mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org
http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/
11 Sep
11 Sep
4:17 p.m.
On 9/11/2015 12:03 PM, Rich Alderson wrote:
From: Dave G4UGM
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2015 12:06 PM
However, it was
far earlier than the Victorians. Noah Webster (1758-1843)
only overlaps the Victorian era by 6 years; he was reacting against the
aristocratic spelling norms of the 17th and 18th centuries, when Latin and
Greek were held to be more important than English in the learning of the
latter language. His spelling book was originally published in 1783.
Rich
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computer Museum
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134
mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org
http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/
My earliest Webster is an 1820 copy. The last dictionary I bought was
the CD version of the OED which was around $1000. I ended up with a
copy for around $100. Now just use the spell check in whatever I'm in
to keep me somewhat honest, and if I need something and have a browser
handy, use the Google box on firefox to get me close to the correct
spelling.
Now choosing my words is different than spelling of course.
Thanks
Jim
From:
Liam Proven
Sent: 10 September 2015 16:17
On 10 September 2015 at 15:42, Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote:
I believe that historically "color" or "colour" was acceptable
in English.
Correct. "Colour" reflects Norman French, "color" reflects Latin.
It was the Victorians that pushed the current "English" spellings in an
attempt to "Latinise" or "Latinize" or even "Posh Up"
English and Webster
who pushed the simplified spellings that the USA uses today.... He also said that the colored pencils that I
manually did graphs with
were "COLOUR PENCILS".
Sounds legit to me. But then in the old world we still spell the proper,
old-fashioned-way. ;?)
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