16 Jun
2000
16 Jun
'00
9:49 a.m.
On June 16, Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip) wrote:
Not to mention, only so many people who would know
what to *do* with
an old Commodore, VAX, TI 99, etc. As far as the rest of the world is
concerned, it's "trash"....
Only our broken, brain-damaged society can take a thing that does
it's job just as well as when it was new, and call it "trash" simply
because something newer (not necessarily "better") has been
announced by the vendors. Fascinating...and disturbing.
My primary car is a '95. It continued to run just fine when the '96
came out. There's a clue in there somewhere.
Well, not nearly as much as they used to, but one can
always hold out
hope. Know of any new people entering this hobby? Not just squirrelling
away stuff, or churning it on the auction sites, but actually buying old
computers, plugging them in, and actually working/playing with them?
I've turned a few younger people on to it...they seem to get a kick
out of computers whose internals they can really understand. One
can find databooks for 7400-series TTL logic anywhere, and figure
out exactly how a pdp8/e works. Pop open a current PeeCee and what
do you find? Five or six two-zillion-pin chips with names like
"Win-<whatever>" on them that you'll never find so much as a pinout
for in any printed or .pdf literature.
-Dave McGuire
16 Jun
16 Jun
9:17 a.m.
New subject: MELLOW OUT! Re: A Great Find & A Defense of E-Bay
On Fri, 16 Jun 2000, Dave McGuire wrote:
On June 16, Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip) wrote:
Damn. What a bunch of frustrated, bickering goobers we all are here.
Fifty messages on a mailing list supposedly dealing with Classic Computers
and all I see is pointless and endless complaining and flaming back and
forth, back and forth.
Dudes, smoke a bowl, drink some wine, eat some cheese and CHILL! Put your
egos back in the garage with your classic computers.
;)
Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking for a six in a pile of nines...
Coming soon: VCF 4.0!
VCF East: Planning in Progress
See http://www.vintage.org for details!
Not to mention, only so many people who would
know what to *do* with
an old Commodore, VAX, TI 99, etc. As far as the rest of the world is
concerned, it's "trash"....
Only our broken, brain-damaged society can take a thing that does
it's job just as well as when it was new, and call it "trash" simply
because something newer (not necessarily "better") has been
announced by the vendors. Fascinating...and disturbing. 
12:24 p.m.
New subject: MELLOW OUT! Re: A Great Find & A Defense of E-Bay
On Fri, 16 Jun 2000, Sellam Ismail wrote:
Damn. What a bunch of frustrated, bickering goobers
we all are here.
Fifty messages on a mailing list supposedly dealing with Classic Computers
and all I see is pointless and endless complaining and flaming back and
forth, back and forth.
You should visit a couple of my other mailing lists. On my Train mailing
list, for example, we've been arguing back and forth for years whether
Amtrak should fix up their antique "heritage" cars or just order new ones.
It's part and parcel of Internet discussion groups, talk radio, and other
fora where you have many people with different opinions and priorities
in one place.
11:45 a.m.
New subject: MELLOW OUT! Re: A Great Find & A Defense of E-Bay
On Fri, 16 Jun 2000, Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip) wrote:
You should visit a couple of my other mailing lists.
On my Train mailing
list, for example, we've been arguing back and forth for years whether
Amtrak should fix up their antique "heritage" cars or just order new ones.
At least you're sticking to the subject matter.
It's part and parcel of Internet discussion
groups, talk radio, and other
fora where you have many people with different opinions and priorities
in one place.
...and way too much time on their hands with few (if any) outlets for
their frustrations.
Does anyone around here know what SEX is?
Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking for a six in a pile of nines...
Coming soon: VCF 4.0!
VCF East: Planning in Progress
See http://www.vintage.org for details!
1:01 p.m.
New subject: MELLOW OUT! Re: A Great Find & A Defense of E-Bay
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1:24 p.m.
New subject: MELLOW OUT! Re: A Great Find & A Defense of E-Bay
On Fri, 16 Jun 2000, Sellam Ismail wrote:
Aargh! If we knew about that do you think we'd be living alone with
20 old computers and nothing else? :-)
Some times I think we're the male, technological version of the "Cat
Lady"....:-)
On Fri, 16 Jun 2000, Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip)
wrote:
Usually, until it gets into stuff like "Capitalism vs. Communism--better
for trains?" or "Is the train name 'Cotton Express' racist?"
You should visit a couple of my other mailing
lists. On my Train mailing
list, for example, we've been arguing back and forth for years whether
Amtrak should fix up their antique "heritage" cars or just order new ones.
At least you're sticking to the subject matter. It's part and parcel of Internet discussion
groups, talk radio, and other
fora where you have many people with different opinions and priorities
in one place.
...and way too much time on their hands with few (if any) outlets for
their frustrations.
Does anyone around here know what SEX is?
12:54 p.m.
New subject: MELLOW OUT! Re: A Great Find & A Defense of E-Bay
On Fri, 16 Jun 2000, Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip) wrote:
Usually, until it gets into stuff like
"Capitalism vs. Communism--better
for trains?" or "Is the train name 'Cotton Express' racist?"
Sounds like ClassicCmp, just replace "trains" with "classic computers"
:)
I can't think of a racist sounding computer name.
Are the black Apple ][+'s discriminated against? Was the NeXT really just
too ahead of it's time or did it succumb to racist elements in the
computer industry?
Someone call Spike Lee!
Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking for a six in a pile of nines...
Coming soon: VCF 4.0!
VCF East: Planning in Progress
See http://www.vintage.org for details!
19 Jun
19 Jun
5:03 a.m.
New subject: MELLOW OUT! Re: A Great Find & A Defense of E-Bay
The worst name I ever saw attached to a computer
was...
A friend of mine has a piece of test equipment in his
basement, apparently biomed, with nameplate writing:
"Grass Stimulus Analyzer"
Apparently the manufacturer's name was Grass or
some such. Looked authentic.
John A.
16 Jun
16 Jun
1:55 p.m.
New subject: MELLOW OUT! Re: A Great Find & A Defense of E-Bay
On Fri, 16 Jun 2000, Sellam Ismail wrote:
Does anyone around here know what SEX is?
Something that your parents should have never had? ;-)
--
R. D. Davis
rdd(a)perqlogic.com
http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd
410-744-4900
1:15 p.m.
New subject: MELLOW OUT! Re: A Great Find & A Defense of E-Bay
On Fri, 16 Jun 2000, R. D. Davis wrote:
Sorry, wrong. The correct answer is "something that R.D. apparently
hasn't gotten in a long time" ;)
Get that paper white ass of yours out into the sunlight and find yourself
a mate! It'll do wonders for your complexion, not to mention your
temperament.
Cut it out with the masturbation. It just makes you frustrated.
Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking for a six in a pile of nines...
Coming soon: VCF 4.0!
VCF East: Planning in Progress
See http://www.vintage.org for details!
Does anyone
around here know what SEX is?
Something that your parents should have never had? ;-) 
12:14 p.m.
On Fri, 16 Jun 2000, Dave McGuire wrote:
On June 16, Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip) wrote:
I'm sure that if you did a web search, you'd find thousands of essays
deploring our "consumerist, throw-away society". I won't write one here.
Not to mention, only so many people who would
know what to *do* with
an old Commodore, VAX, TI 99, etc. As far as the rest of the world is
concerned, it's "trash"....
Only our broken, brain-damaged society can take a thing that does
it's job just as well as when it was new, and call it "trash" simply
because something newer (not necessarily "better") has been
announced by the vendors. Fascinating...and disturbing.
My primary car is a '95. It continued to run
just fine when the '96
came out. There's a clue in there somewhere.
Big difference, though. A car is a car is a car. As long as it keeps
running well and doesn't cost too much to fix, keep it. I never understood
the mentality saying you gotta have a new car every year, or whatever.
I *do* know there is a big difference between my Apple II (which still
does yeoman service running my Syntauri synthesizer) and the
PowerComputing PowerCenter 240 that I do most of my "real work" on. And,
no, I'm not going back to the Apple II and a dot-matrix printer to do my
newsletters on, or surf the Net.
So as far as the non-computer-collecting community is concerned (how's
that for alliteration, huh?), things have improved exponentially since the
early days of the Imsai, the Apple or even the original IBM-PC. There's no
real reason for them to store, let alone maintain the older
equipment....and, unless one of us geeks hears about it, and is in a
position to "rescue" said equipment...off to the landfill/scrapper/China
it goes...
12:56 p.m.
On Fri, 16 Jun 2000, Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip) wrote:
On Fri, 16 Jun 2000, Dave McGuire wrote:
I'm sure that there are a number of Ferrari, Lamborghini, and Lotus
owners out there who would think that you are daft!
- don
On June 16, Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip) wrote:
I'm sure that if you did a web search, you'd find thousands of essays
deploring our "consumerist, throw-away society". I won't write one here.
Not to mention, only so many people who would
know what to *do* with
an old Commodore, VAX, TI 99, etc. As far as the rest of the world is
concerned, it's "trash"....
Only our broken, brain-damaged society can take a thing that does
it's job just as well as when it was new, and call it "trash" simply
because something newer (not necessarily "better") has been
announced by the vendors. Fascinating...and disturbing.
My primary car is a '95. It continued to
run just fine when the '96
came out. There's a clue in there somewhere.
Big difference, though. A car is a car is a car. As long as it keeps running well and doesn't cost too much to fix,
keep it. I never understood
the mentality saying you gotta have a new car every year, or whatever.
I *do* know there is a big difference between my Apple II (which still
does yeoman service running my Syntauri synthesizer) and the
PowerComputing PowerCenter 240 that I do most of my "real work" on. And,
no, I'm not going back to the Apple II and a dot-matrix printer to do my
newsletters on, or surf the Net.
So as far as the non-computer-collecting community is concerned (how's
that for alliteration, huh?), things have improved exponentially since the
early days of the Imsai, the Apple or even the original IBM-PC. There's no
real reason for them to store, let alone maintain the older
equipment....and, unless one of us geeks hears about it, and is in a
position to "rescue" said equipment...off to the landfill/scrapper/China
it goes...
1:39 p.m.
On Fri, 16 Jun 2000, Don Maslin wrote:
I'm sure they would. I've always stuck to conservative, commuter cars
such as Saturn, Honda Accord, etc.
Big difference, though. A car is a car is a car. As long as it keeps
I'm sure that there are a number of Ferrari, Lamborghini, and Lotus
owners out there who would think that you are daft!
1:08 p.m.
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3:08 p.m.
On Fri, 16 Jun 2000, Tony Duell wrote:
I don't either, really, except the people have come to expect laser
formatting, photographs, etc. I guess you *could* do it with an Apple II,
hell, I could do it with a TI 99/4A if necessary. And I could rub two
sticks together to light my next bbq, instead of lighter fluid and
matches. It would be fun to try once, that's about it.
I am not sure what that difference is.... They're
both single-processor
von Neuman computers, aren't they?
I really don't understand why people insist on replacing perfectly good
computers just because there's a new model out. I do know that my
original PC/XT will, once I've replaced the dead chip on the floppy
controller, still run my EPROM programmer, read 8" disks, test cables,
and do all the other things that I've modified it for over the years.
Just as my MINC will carry on logging data (as will my HP71 + HP3421), my
PERQ will still display bitmapped images at a good speed, etc. They do
the jobs they were designed to do, they still do them. And until I need
to do jobs that can't be done on those machines _at all_, I see no reason
to 'upgrade' (meaning : replace a perfectly working, well understood,
reliable system with a new kludge).
If it does what you want it to do, keep it. An original PC/XT wouldn't
meet many of my needs right now, so I wouldn't use one except in an
emergency.
does yeoman service running my Syntauri
synthesizer) and the
PowerComputing PowerCenter 240 that I do most of my "real work" on. And,
no, I'm not going back to the Apple II and a dot-matrix printer to do my
newsletters on, or surf the Net.
I see nothing wrong with printing newsletters on a dot matrix printer.
3:18 p.m.
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7:36 p.m.
On Sat, 17 Jun 2000, Tony Duell wrote:
I have several too...
[...]
I'd like to get them to stop doing that with cars, except there wouldn't
be any good used ones for me to buy...
If it does what you want it to do, keep it. An
original PC/XT wouldn't
Yep, that seems to be a standard viewpoint on this list. It certainly
isn't the view of the j-random-public who insist on replacing computers
just because there's a new model out, even though they still work fine,
they still do the jobs they are needed for. meet many of my needs right now, so I
wouldn't use one except in an
emergency.
It doesn't do that many of the jobs I need either. Which is why I have
more than one computer. I'd rather have many machines, each one reliably
doing a particular job, than a modern PC that does nothing that I want
particularly well...
[...]
As I've said many times before (and will say many times again), I regard
the content of a document as being much more important than the
formatting, the printing method, etc. I've got books/manuals that appear
to have been written on a manual typewriter that contain useful
information. I've got plenty of documents created on DTP, etc, systems
that are not worth the paper they are printed on. Guess which I consider
to be more valuable...
I strive to create documents that both look nice and have useful
info, but that's just me.
I see
nothing wrong with printing newsletters on a dot matrix printer.
I don't either, really, except the people have come to expect laser
formatting, photographs, etc. I guess you *could* do it with an Apple II,
Of course J-random-public these days would rather look at the pretty
pictures than read pages of text
Assuming they can read at all. We have signs in our library , for example,
telling them how to use various databases, buy a copy card for the
printer, etc. I still end up walking people through the process
every day. And I'm talking about Doctors, M.D's!
, but fortunately, I'm not
J-random-public ;-)
None of us on this list are, that's what's so nice about it. :-)
8805
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8808
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20 comments
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
at258＠osfn.org -
aw288＠osfn.org -
donm＠cts.com -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
foo＠siconic.com -
John.Allain＠donnelley.infousa.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
rdd＠smart.net -
spc＠armigeron.com -
transit＠lerctr.org