2 Feb
2014
2 Feb
'14
11:19 a.m.
Tucker 'teoutlet' did the same to me..
Won two HP2100 manuals and asked for a combined shipment, said I got them so cheap he
wouldn't combine so they cancelled the buy.
-Rik
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: "Al Kossow" <aek at bitsavers.org>
Verzonden: ?2-?2-?2014 19:58
Aan: "On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Onderwerp: beware of "andananautions"
wow
won some manuals cheap, then sent a message to see if they would combine shipping.
the seller canceled all of the auctions, and apparently there is no recourse from the
buyer.
read his reply for yourself.
this is the first time in 5000+ ebay deals that someone backed out after asking for
combined shipping.
beware..
his 'justification'
Dear al_kossow,
1. You won several items yesterday.
2. I sent you an invoice for the total amount.
3. You emailed your disagreement over the terms of your purchase.
4. Therefore, we do not agree over the terms of the transaction.
4. So I filed the appropriate request to cancel the transaction with ebay.
Now, you have suddenly changed your mind and claim that your purchase was a "Binding
Contract"?
Sounds like you want your cake and eat it, too.
First, you engage in feedback extortion to try coerce me to lower the purchase price.
Then, when you did not get your way, you attempt to compel me to go through with the
transaction.
Unfortunately, when you expressed your disagreement over the terms of the sale, it was
obvious that there was no meeting of the minds in this transaction. As such, there is no
contract. We both agreed
to cancel the transaction and that is ok. I am sorry you were disappointed in the terms. I
have refunded your paypal payment. You are whole.
I am just curious as to where else you can buy something and then negotiate the terms of
the transaction.
After you have filled up your gas tank, do you then ask the gas station for a discount?
12:57 p.m.
Presumably, these sellers are using inflated postage to add a bit of
margin. Otherwise, why not combine shipping? I'm pretty sure that's
against ebay policy. And I can't imagine how a won auction could not
constiture a contract, that's the whole point of the things, surely...
there's an implicit agreement and consideration both ways, therefore a
contract. Just goes to show that sometimes you have to expect to be
dealing with dishonest people and/or idiots. Oh well. I'd complain to
ebay, for sure.
On 3/02/2014 8:19 a.m., Rik Bos wrote:
Tucker 'teoutlet' did the same to me..
Won two HP2100 manuals and asked for a combined shipment, said I got them so cheap he
wouldn't combine so they cancelled the buy.
-Rik
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: "Al Kossow" <aek at bitsavers.org>
Verzonden: ?2-?2-?2014 19:58
Aan: "On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Onderwerp: beware of "andananautions"
wow
won some manuals cheap, then sent a message to see if they would combine shipping.
the seller canceled all of the auctions, and apparently there is no recourse from the
buyer.
read his reply for yourself.
this is the first time in 5000+ ebay deals that someone backed out after asking for
combined shipping.
beware..
his 'justification'
Dear al_kossow,
1. You won several items yesterday.
2. I sent you an invoice for the total amount.
3. You emailed your disagreement over the terms of your purchase.
4. Therefore, we do not agree over the terms of the transaction.
4. So I filed the appropriate request to cancel the transaction with ebay.
Now, you have suddenly changed your mind and claim that your purchase was a "Binding
Contract"?
Sounds like you want your cake and eat it, too.
First, you engage in feedback extortion to try coerce me to lower the purchase price.
Then, when you did not get your way, you attempt to compel me to go through with the
transaction.
Unfortunately, when you expressed your disagreement over the terms of the sale, it was
obvious that there was no meeting of the minds in this transaction. As such, there is no
contract. We both agreed
to cancel the transaction and that is ok. I am sorry you were disappointed in the terms.
I have refunded your paypal payment. You are whole.
I am just curious as to where else you can buy something and then negotiate the terms of
the transaction.
After you have filled up your gas tank, do you then ask the gas station for a discount?
2:14 p.m.
On Feb 2, 2014, at 3:57 PM, Mike van Bokhoven <mike at fenz.net> wrote:
Presumably, these sellers are using inflated postage
to add a bit of margin. Otherwise, why not combine shipping?
That?s a very old trick among low grade mail order outfits. Real businesses don?t run
that way; as you said, they will combine shipping as normal practice whenever multiple
things ship from the same place. The only conceivable reason for objecting to combined
shipping is that you?re using ?shipping and handling? as a profit source.
paul
2:21 p.m.
On 02/02/2014 22:14, Paul Koning wrote:
On Feb 2, 2014, at 3:57 PM, Mike van Bokhoven <mike
at fenz.net> wrote:
Or you have already packed the stuff as separate packages....
... or for manuals they would exceed a size or weight limit..
.. but often "printed Papers" can be sent at a greatly reduced rate...
Presumably, these sellers are using inflated
postage to add a bit of margin. Otherwise, why not combine shipping?
That?s a very
old trick among low grade mail order outfits. Real businesses don?t run that way; as you
said, they will combine shipping as normal practice whenever multiple things ship from the
same place. The only conceivable reason for objecting to combined shipping is that you?re
using ?shipping and handling? as a profit source.
paul
--
Dave Wade G4UGM
Illegitimi Non Carborundum
2:25 p.m.
Yep, especially as it'd be easier for the sender to pack a combined
package than do it all individually. Or even worse, charge you for
individual shipping, then actually only send one combined package and
generate some extra profit that way.
Having said that, the best option would have to be asking up front
whether the seller will combine postage, if they don't explicitly state
one way or the other. At least that preempts any issues of that sort.
On 3/02/2014 11:14 a.m., Paul Koning wrote:
That?s a very old trick among low grade mail order
outfits. Real businesses don?t run that way; as you said, they will combine shipping as
normal practice whenever multiple things ship from the same place. The only conceivable
reason for objecting to combined shipping is that you?re using ?shipping and handling? as
a profit source.
paul
On Feb 2, 2014, at 3:57 PM, Mike van Bokhoven <mike at fenz.net> wrote:
Presumably, these sellers are using inflated
postage to add a bit of margin. Otherwise, why not combine shipping?
3 Feb
3 Feb
1:26 p.m.
My $0.02 on this...
Having said that, the best option would have to be
asking up front
whether the seller will combine postage, if they don't explicitly state
one way or the other. At least that preempts any issues of that sort.
Agreed.
My take is that the buyer should have bene prepared to pay the spearate
shipping charges, after all, that's what was specified in the auction
lising. But that it is entirely reasoanble to ask if the seller would
combine shipping (and and they said they won;t then that's the end of it,
the buyer has to pay the full separate shipping charges).
Bu the seller should not cancel an auction because a buyer asks for this.
Period.
After all, if I go into a shop and buy 100 of the smae item, I might feel
there should be a 'quantity discount' and it would not be unreasonable
for me to aske if that's the case. If the shop says no, I should be
prepared to pay the full price. The shop should bnot refuse to sel lto me
for asking though.
-tony
2:08 p.m.
On Feb 3, 2014, at 4:26 PM, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
My $0.02 on this...
And given what we've seen from Al, that's what happened. He asked if
shipping could be combined, then (correct me if I'm wrong) paid for
full shipping after either an extended silence or a "no" response from
the vendor.
Having said that, the best option would have to
be asking up front
whether the seller will combine postage, if they don't explicitly state
one way or the other. At least that preempts any issues of that sort.
Agreed.
My take is that the buyer should have bene prepared to pay the spearate
shipping charges, after all, that's what was specified in the auction
lising. But that it is entirely reasoanble to ask if the seller would
combine shipping (and and they said they won;t then that's the end of it,
the buyer has to pay the full separate shipping charges). Bu the seller should not cancel an auction because a
buyer asks for this.
Period.
Absolutely. That just seems out of line. Having been an eBay seller,
I can identify with worrying about someone posting negative shipping
feedback if I didn't consolidate shipping, but not to the point where
I'd just cancel the auction after everything had been paid and sending
a bitchy response.
- Dave
2:09 p.m.
I think we all agree, the seller in this case was a fragile little
snowflake, or having a bad day, or something else, and Al was perfectly
fine to ask and get shut down if that wasn't an option.
On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 4:26 PM, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
My $0.02 on this...
Having said that, the best option would have to
be asking up front
whether the seller will combine postage, if they don't explicitly state
one way or the other. At least that preempts any issues of that sort.
Agreed.
My take is that the buyer should have bene prepared to pay the spearate
shipping charges, after all, that's what was specified in the auction
lising. But that it is entirely reasoanble to ask if the seller would
combine shipping (and and they said they won;t then that's the end of it,
the buyer has to pay the full separate shipping charges).
Bu the seller should not cancel an auction because a buyer asks for this.
Period.
After all, if I go into a shop and buy 100 of the smae item, I might feel
there should be a 'quantity discount' and it would not be unreasonable
for me to aske if that's the case. If the shop says no, I should be
prepared to pay the full price. The shop should bnot refuse to sel lto me
for asking though.
-tony
5:30 p.m.
Not surprising, I won a tail light for my car on an ebay auction, for the
starting bid of $0.01. Paid like $26.01, the win plus shipping. No
notifications, no tracking number, nothing. Three weeks later, I sent the
seller a message, and without saying anything, without explaination, he
sent me the money back, basically he was mad that he didn't get more than
$0.01 for it.
That's the beauty of modern ebay vs old ebay, if a seller backs out on you,
or is crooked in any way, you can leave them negative feedback without
fearing retaliation, which lets others know not to waste their time, and
after enough strikes gets their selling ability revoked.
On Feb 3, 2014 4:00 PM, "Tony Duell" <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
My $0.02 on this...
Having said that, the best option would have to
be asking up front
whether the seller will combine postage, if they don't explicitly state
one way or the other. At least that preempts any issues of that sort.
Agreed.
My take is that the buyer should have bene prepared to pay the spearate
shipping charges, after all, that's what was specified in the auction
lising. But that it is entirely reasoanble to ask if the seller would
combine shipping (and and they said they won;t then that's the end of it,
the buyer has to pay the full separate shipping charges).
Bu the seller should not cancel an auction because a buyer asks for this.
Period.
After all, if I go into a shop and buy 100 of the smae item, I might feel
there should be a 'quantity discount' and it would not be unreasonable
for me to aske if that's the case. If the shop says no, I should be
prepared to pay the full price. The shop should bnot refuse to sel lto me
for asking though.
-tony
4 Feb
4 Feb
9:34 a.m.
On Feb 3, 2014, at 8:30 PM, joe lobocki <jlobocki at gmail.com> wrote:
Not surprising, I won a tail light for my car on an
ebay auction, for the
starting bid of $0.01. Paid like $26.01, the win plus shipping. No
notifications, no tracking number, nothing. Three weeks later, I sent the
seller a message, and without saying anything, without explaination, he
sent me the money back, basically he was mad that he didn't get more than
$0.01 for it.
I assume this wasn't a tail light you could go down and buy at
Pep Boys for a dollar?
That's the beauty of modern ebay vs old ebay, if a
seller backs out on you,
or is crooked in any way, you can leave them negative feedback without
fearing retaliation, which lets others know not to waste their time, and
after enough strikes gets their selling ability revoked.
True! But it's a curse the other way... I had buyers back out
on me (or more accurately just fail to pay or even communicate)
quite a few times when I was selling some things recently, and
there is NO WAY to leave negative feedback on a buyer anymore.
It makes it challenging to avoid people who are going to waste
your time; you can filter your sale for people with less than
two "non-paying bidder" strikes, but those are otherwise
invisible to everyone (and they don't result in a decreased
feedback score like negative feedback used to).
- Dave
2 Feb
2 Feb
2:30 p.m.
That?s a very old trick among low grade mail order
outfits. Real businesses$
Actually, no, it can be reasonable to refuse to combine shipping if the
products are shipping from different places. If you order an edge
gonkulator and a cross-green blivet from my store and I have the
gonkulator maker and the blivet maker ship directly to you, combining
shipping may not be even possible, much less desirable.
AIUI this doesn't apply in this case, nor, probably, in most such
cases. But "the only conceivable reason" strikes me as putting it
rather too strongly.
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
3 Feb
3 Feb
7:54 a.m.
On Feb 2, 2014, at 5:30 PM, Mouse <mouse at rodents-montreal.org> wrote:
Of course, and I said so about a sentence or two away from the text you quoted.
Similarly, real outfits will ship separately if some items are backordered ? or they may
give you a choice to have separate shipments or to get the whole order in one shipment
later.
As for the explanation someone suggested that things might have been packaged up ahead of
time ? that?s not all that plausible but it?s possible. If so, though, the only
reasonable reply is ?no, because?. Canceling the auction simply because someone *asks*
for combined shipping is plainly inexcusable.
paul
That?s a very
old trick among low grade mail order outfits. Real businesses$
Actually, no, it can be reasonable to refuse to combine shipping if the
products are shipping from different places. 
8:41 a.m.
In any event I agree that $14 for a manual(s) seems really excessive since
you can use media mail rates and get considerably cheaper shipping (albeit
slower).
I will point out one thing though... eBay's listing process is really
annoying now as a seller as you have to give it dimensions of your
packaging and weight of the item before the beginning of the auction. It's
quite possible that the seller packaged the items individually beforehand
due to this and doesn't want to create additional work for themselves
repacking sold items especially if it's something they're not making a lot
of money off of to begin with.
Still, I agree the reaction is ridiculous, and if they were paid they
should be required to follow through with the original deal.
On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 9:54 AM, Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote:
On Feb 2, 2014, at 5:30 PM, Mouse <mouse at rodents-montreal.org> wrote:
> That?s a very old trick among low grade mail
order outfits. Real
businesses$
Actually, no, it can be reasonable to refuse to combine shipping if the
products are shipping from different places.
Of course, and I said so about a sentence or two away from the text you
quoted.
Similarly, real outfits will ship separately if some items are backordered
-- or they may give you a choice to have separate shipments or to get the
whole order in one shipment later.
As for the explanation someone suggested that things might have been
packaged up ahead of time -- that's not all that plausible but it's
possible. If so, though, the only reasonable reply is "no, because".
Canceling the auction simply because someone *asks* for combined shipping
is plainly inexcusable.
paul
9:13 a.m.
When I post eBay auctions, which I don't do very often, I usually pre-package the item
so that I can weigh the finished package and enter the details for the freight calculator.
That makes for a quick and easy checkout without back-and-forth over invoices. However, I
usually just have one thing listed at a time, so combining shipments isn't an issue. I
also do the pre-packaging thing because I'm usually busy with work and laziness (which
both take a lot of time and effort), so I plan ahead to minimize the barriers to my
getting the thing shipped quickly once the auction closes.
If I was a business and/or was listing a lot of items, then I'd probably need to
handle things differently.
There are plenty of reasons why a seller might not combine shipping, but a simple
"sorry, I can't do that because of reasons" is a much better way to respond
than a foaming-at-the-mouth rant followed by a rage-quit.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
3978
days inactive
3980
days old
14 comments
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participants (12)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com -
fraveydank＠gmail.com -
hp-fix＠xs4all.nl -
jason＠textfiles.com -
jlobocki＠gmail.com -
mike＠fenz.net -
mouse＠Rodents-Montreal.ORG -
nf6x＠nf6x.net -
oltmansg＠gmail.com -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
supervinx＠libero.it