Al Kossow wrote: I got to do a little MUMPS and I understand the criticism of someone coming from a world where reduced normal form relational databases are the expectation. There's a lot of homegrown MUMPS code out there that does not conform to anyone's critique of architecture and style. But that has more to do with the accessibility of MUMPS and the decades old nature of the code and data, IMHO, than with anything intrinsically bad about MUMPS. I get to deal with a lot of legacy code! Now, to see something that shows true vitriol towards a software product, you have to not only read "The Cognitive Style of Powerpoint", but meet Edward Tufte and let him lay into it verbally :-). Tim.