28 Dec
2015
28 Dec
'15
1:45 a.m.
Hi
Anybody who has not seen this film (The KGB, the Computer, and Me)
its worth a look. 1980's DEC systems everywhere, LSI terminals, HP kit,
Tape drives in action and apart from the Mac no Windows anywhere.
I think LBL must have bought one of everything.
The story (true) is not bad either.
I now expect to get a long list of weveseenits.
Rod
28 Dec
28 Dec
2:06 a.m.
On 12/28/2015 1:45 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote:
Hi
Anybody who has not seen this film (The KGB, the Computer, and Me)
its worth a look. 1980's DEC systems everywhere, LSI terminals, HP kit,
Tape drives in action and apart from the Mac no Windows anywhere.
I think LBL must have bought one of everything.
The story (true) is not bad either.
I now expect to get a long list of weveseenits.
Ron
I have not seen that, but have the Stoll Book, Cuckoo's Egg. A friend
of mine is central to this, and is in the book (though I've not seen him
for 30 years...)
Ron Vivier was a programmer @ Microdata for a couple of years before
leaving and moving to the Bay area and resurfacing @ Tymnet. There was
a lull for a bit then all of a sudden the story about Stoll trapping the
guy made headlines, and there in the front of it was Ron. He did what
I'd have expected him to do, but the people covering the story didn't
get that was in his nature to help like that.
I ended up with the desk cleanout droppings from his desk and kept most
of it for years, and still owe him a chess clock (which is around here
somewhere). Still has his name dymo'ed on the top.
I found the video you posted about, will take a look tomorrow, late here
tonight. thanks for the lead. Wonder what Stoll is up to these days.
Thanks
Jim
2:37 a.m.
On 28/12/2015 10:06, jwsmobile wrote:
On 12/28/2015 1:45 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote:
Very interesting comments.
Stoll has a bit of a wesite.. He's an astronomer just like he said. Also
he also says stay at home dad. (Wife is lawyer I guess)
Did anybody spot the visual reference to a well known rock star also a
Phd astronomer.
Hi
Anybody who has not seen this film (The KGB, the Computer, and Me)
its worth a look. 1980's DEC systems everywhere, LSI terminals, HP kit,
Tape drives in action and apart from the Mac no Windows anywhere.
I think LBL must have bought one of everything.
The story (true) is not bad either.
I now expect to get a long list of weveseenits.
Ron
I have not seen that, but have the Stoll Book, Cuckoo's Egg. A friend
of mine is central to this, and is in the book (though I've not seen
him for 30 years...)
Ron Vivier was a programmer @ Microdata for a couple of years before
leaving and moving to the Bay area and resurfacing @ Tymnet. There
was a lull for a bit then all of a sudden the story about Stoll
trapping the guy made headlines, and there in the front of it was
Ron. He did what I'd have expected him to do, but the people covering
the story didn't get that was in his nature to help like that.
I ended up with the desk cleanout droppings from his desk and kept
most of it for years, and still owe him a chess clock (which is around
here somewhere). Still has his name dymo'ed on the top.
I found the video you posted about, will take a look tomorrow, late
here tonight. thanks for the lead. Wonder what Stoll is up to these
days.
Thanks
Jim 
7:38 a.m.
New subject: Stoll (Was: The KGB, the Computer, and Me
I have not
seen that, but have the Stoll Book, Cuckoo's Egg. A friend of
mine is central to this, and is in the book (though I've not seen him for
30 years...)
Stoll has a bit of a wesite.. He's an astronomer
just like he said. Also he
also says stay at home dad. (Wife is lawyer I guess)
Did anybody spot the visual reference to a well known rock star also a Phd
astronomer.
and don't forget his home business!
http://www.kleinbottle.com/
10:10 a.m.
New subject: Stoll (Was: The KGB, the Computer, and Me
On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 7:38 AM, Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote:
I have not seen that, but have the Stoll Book,
Cuckoo's Egg. A friend of
of the
items are. :-)
--
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School <http://ischool.uw.edu>
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens
Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal <http://tribunalvoices.org>
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab <http://vsdesign.org>
University of Washington
There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."
mine is
central to this, and is in the book (though I've not seen him for
30 years...)
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015, Rod Smallwood wrote: Stoll has a bit of a wesite.. He's an
astronomer just like he said. Also
he also says stay at home dad. (Wife is lawyer I guess)
Did anybody spot the visual reference to a well known rock star also a
Phd astronomer.
and don't forget his home business!
http://www.kleinbottle.com/
I love his truth in advertising: he explains just how impractical several 
7:43 a.m.
Stoll has a bit of a wesite.. He's an astronomer
just like he said. Also he
also says stay at home dad. (Wife is lawyer I guess)
Did anybody spot the visual reference to a well known rock star also a Phd
astronomer.
Stoll bought some sort of glassware in bulk and sells it, but he didn't
have storage space so he uses a ROV thing to move product around the
crawlspace:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k3mVnRlQLU
--
Ethan O'Toole
8:14 a.m.
On 28/12/2015 15:43, ethan at 757.org wrote:
I love this guy!
I bet he has a time travelling DeLorean in his garage
Rod
Stoll has a
bit of a wesite.. He's an astronomer just like he said.
Also he also says stay at home dad. (Wife is lawyer I guess)
Did anybody spot the visual reference to a well known rock star also
a Phd astronomer.
Stoll bought some sort of glassware in bulk and sells it, but he
didn't have storage space so he uses a ROV thing to move product
around the crawlspace:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k3mVnRlQLU
--
Ethan O'Toole
8:27 a.m.
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015, Rod Smallwood wrote:
I love this guy!
I bet he has a time travelling DeLorean in his garage
At one point, he mentioned wanting to create a punched card driven
webserver.
For a while, he had a show on MSNBC. He wanted to shoot an episode in my
office, due to the piles of old computer junk.
I gave him a small "irreparably damaged" core plane.
8:52 a.m.
On 28/12/2015 16:27, Fred Cisin wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015, Rod Smallwood wrote:
Well
Whilst a mechanical card system is perhaps not a good way to go a
vitual card and tape system is another matter.
Take one pile of assorted systems.
Label the first 'Card Reader'
The second Card punch
The next Tape reader
Then tape punch
... CPU
... Memory
... and so on
go to card punch system
press a key for next card. - card appears on the screen using key pad
key in data - holes appear
The rest you can guess. Instead of running jobs in a real old DP shop
you simulate it using systems to stand in for each device.
Set up in a large open area and you have the ultimate Multiuser Team RPG
called 'Computer Operations'
Online no-problem Do I feel like being a line printer to-night?
Rod
I love this guy!
I bet he has a time travelling DeLorean in his garage
At one point, he mentioned wanting to create a punched card driven
webserver.
For a while, he had a show on MSNBC. He wanted to shoot an episode in
my office, due to the piles of old computer junk.
I gave him a small "irreparably damaged" core plane.
6:10 p.m.
On 12/28/2015 2:06 AM, jwsmobile wrote:
On 12/28/2015 1:45 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote:
among the other activities mentioned here, he still gets speaking
invitations to law enforcement functions. He has a habit of showing up
with a large envelope of viewgraph slides asking for an overhead projector.
steve shumaker
(yes... I was there - the book is actually rather accurate)
Hi
Anybody who has not seen this film (The KGB, the Computer, and Me)
its worth a look. 1980's DEC systems everywhere, LSI terminals, HP kit,
Tape drives in action and apart from the Mac no Windows anywhere.
I think LBL must have bought one of everything.
The story (true) is not bad either.
I now expect to get a long list of weveseenits.
Ron
I have not seen that, but have the Stoll Book, Cuckoo's Egg. A friend
of mine is central to this, and is in the book (though I've not seen
him for 30 years...)
Ron Vivier was a programmer @ Microdata for a couple of years before
leaving and moving to the Bay area and resurfacing @ Tymnet. There
was a lull for a bit then all of a sudden the story about Stoll
trapping the guy made headlines, and there in the front of it was
Ron. He did what I'd have expected him to do, but the people covering
the story didn't get that was in his nature to help like that.
I ended up with the desk cleanout droppings from his desk and kept
most of it for years, and still owe him a chess clock (which is around
here somewhere). Still has his name dymo'ed on the top.
I found the video you posted about, will take a look tomorrow, late
here tonight. thanks for the lead. Wonder what Stoll is up to these
days.
Thanks
Jim
11:34 p.m.
On 2015-Dec-28, at 6:10 PM, steve shumaker wrote:
On 12/28/2015 2:06 AM, jwsmobile wrote:
I didn't recognise the title at first, watched it and realised I had watched it
previously.
Sure was a snapshot of the time - even a trip to Radio Shack.
Even had a sexy shower scene.
In 1985 I was setting up our new email system at CERN, and the email system had a security
flaw that allowed the users' mail access passwords to be seen.
This in of itself wasn't too big deal as there was little a hacker could do with it
(only get access to mail pickup, and you'd need a system that talked X.400, which
weren't prevalent).
What made it a big security problem, of course, was that users tended to use their login
password for their mail password, so once the hackers uncovered the mail password they
ipso-facto often got a login password.
The hacking was noticed and I was told they were networking in from Germany.
Given the commonalities: time proximity (85-86), hacker source (Germany) and hacking
targets (HEP/nuclear/research community), I wonder now if it was the same group of
hackers.
On 12/28/2015 1:45 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote:
among the other activities mentioned here, he still gets speaking invitations to
law enforcement functions. He has a habit of showing up with a large envelope of
viewgraph slides asking for an overhead projector.
steve shumaker
(yes... I was there - the book is actually rather accurate) Hi
Anybody who has not seen this film (The KGB, the Computer, and Me)
its worth a look. 1980's DEC systems everywhere, LSI terminals, HP kit,
Tape drives in action and apart from the Mac no Windows anywhere.
I think LBL must have bought one of everything.
The story (true) is not bad either.
I now expect to get a long list of weveseenits.
Ron
I have not seen that, but have the Stoll Book, Cuckoo's Egg. A friend of
mine is central to this, and is in the book (though I've not seen him for 30
years...)
Ron Vivier was a programmer @ Microdata for a couple of years before leaving and moving
to the Bay area and resurfacing @ Tymnet. There was a lull for a bit then all of a sudden
the story about Stoll trapping the guy made headlines, and there in the front of it was
Ron. He did what I'd have expected him to do, but the people covering the story
didn't get that was in his nature to help like that.
I ended up with the desk cleanout droppings from his desk and kept most of it for years,
and still owe him a chess clock (which is around here somewhere). Still has his name
dymo'ed on the top.
I found the video you posted about, will take a look tomorrow, late here tonight. thanks
for the lead. Wonder what Stoll is up to these days.
Thanks
Jim
2:09 a.m.
On 12/28/2015 1:45 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote:
Hi
<snip>
Ron
Funny I googled and found a final exam at a
university which was posted
for 2004. I guess I'd have missed one question because they said that
it was Roy (not Ron) Vivier at Tymnet. I'd have gotten his name right,
where the instructor screwed up.
Cuckoo's egg was taught apparently as a topic in the Business College
http://faculty.wwu.edu/auer/MIS323/MIS323CuckoosEgg.htm
Oh well.
thanks
Jim
7:42 a.m.
On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 4:45 AM, Rod Smallwood
<rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com> wrote:
Hi
Anybody who has not seen this film (The KGB, the Computer, and Me)
its worth a look. 1980's DEC systems everywhere, LSI terminals, HP kit,
Tape drives in action and apart from the Mac no Windows anywhere.
I think LBL must have bought one of everything.
The story (true) is not bad either.
I now expect to get a long list of weveseenits.
Seen it and can recommend. I also have the book.
My (utterly tenuous) tie-in with the events is that one of our
COMBOARD customers was impacted by the hacker's bouncing around
Tymenet and they changed how we had to log into their system to
diagnose and fix our product on their machines. I asked why, they
said it was "that damn hacker and that damn book!"
-ethan
29 Dec
29 Dec
4:24 p.m.
On 12/28/2015 04:45 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote:
I now expect to get a long list of weveseenits.
Indeed!
I remember seeing this on live TV many years ago. You can find it on
youtube now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcKxaq1FTac
The book is really good too:
http://www.amazon.com/Cuckoos-Egg-Tracking-Computer-Espionage/dp/1416507787/
7:49 p.m.
Thanks for the link! I spent a good hour - as is most always the case with Nova programs.
Well told story and lots of vintage computers and telco gear in their natural environment!
We should start a contest to name them all. Many are easy (for us that is). Here is a more
obscure one that picked my HP test equipment collector's interest. The "logic
analyzer" at 16:47 is actually an old HP 1640A serial data analyzer (the first one
they made? from 1979, $5800, predates the later 495x), with the awesome maximum capture
speed of 19200 bauds and gigantic buffer depth of 2048 characters.
Marc
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ray Arachelian
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 4:24 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: The KGB, the Computer, and Me
On 12/28/2015 04:45 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote:
I now expect to get a long list of weveseenits.
Indeed!
I remember seeing this on live TV many years ago. You can find it on youtube now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcKxaq1FTac
The book is really good too:
http://www.amazon.com/Cuckoos-Egg-Tracking-Computer-Espionage/dp/1416507787/
8:14 p.m.
On 12/29/2015 06:24 PM, Ray Arachelian wrote:
On 12/28/2015 04:45 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote:
The book is totally amazing! I've rarely read anything by a
scientist that is quite so well-written!
Of course, I was interested in the topic, but Cliff Stoll
writes very well. it reads like a thriller.
Jon
I now expect to get a long list of weveseenits.
Indeed!
I remember seeing this on live TV many years ago. You can find it on
youtube now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcKxaq1FTac
The book is really good too:
http://www.amazon.com/Cuckoos-Egg-Tracking-Computer-Espionage/dp/1416507787/
9:23 p.m.
On 12/29/15 10:14 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
On 12/29/2015 06:24 PM, Ray Arachelian wrote:
Just finished reading the book this morning. In addition to being a
thrilling read, it's packed with 80's tech cultural references and quite
a bit of historical vignettes. It's amazing how much has changed in the
security realm and yet so little. Back then the same "make the passwords
too hard and folks put 'em on stickies" vs "make them easy and they can
be guessed" arguments we hear today. The video tied things together for
me quite a bit on the what did things look like back then and was fun.
The logic analyzer is something I've never seen in operation (I'm
obviously not an EE), I looked on Ebay and the B model is available for
less than $300 bucks, no telling if it works.
Will
On 12/28/2015 04:45 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote:
The book is totally amazing! I've rarely read anything by a scientist
that is quite so well-written!
Of course, I was interested in the topic, but Cliff Stoll writes very
well. it reads like a thriller.
Jon I now expect to get a long list of weveseenits.
Indeed!
I remember seeing this on live TV many years ago. You can find it on
youtube now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcKxaq1FTac
The book is really good too:
http://www.amazon.com/Cuckoos-Egg-Tracking-Computer-Espionage/dp/1416507787/
11:53 p.m.
Jon Elson <elson at pico-systems.com> writes:
Of course, I was interested in the topic, but Cliff
Stoll writes very
well. it reads like a thriller.
There's also the German film "23", which tells the same story from the
hackers' end (although with less accuracy in terms of the computers
used). I remember seeing it with friends in the cinema when it first
came out, and being amazed that anybody would make a film about such a
(relatively!) obscure bit of computing history...
--
Adam Sampson <ats at offog.org> <http://offog.org/>
30 Dec
30 Dec
10:13 p.m.
On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 6:24 PM, Ray Arachelian <ray at arachelian.com> wrote:
On 12/28/2015 04:45 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote:
Thanks for digging that up, watched it during dinner tonight. I had
read the book in the early 90s but never knew Nova did a piece on it.
It was cheesily-acted (with the real people, so that's ok) but a fun
breeze through the story.
j
I now expect to get a long list of weveseenits.
Indeed!
I remember seeing this on live TV many years ago. You can find it on
youtube now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcKxaq1FTac 
9:01 p.m.
I just saw it on youtube. Cool story. It was shocking how unprepared
the CIA and FBI was. I hope they are more on there toes today.
Computer security as we do it today is truly flawed.
I doubt it has gotten much better since then.
If you restrict information too much it is like a blockade to
progress. If you open it up too much, it is like a free for all.
Most of the industrial espionage is discovered after the fact,
usually months after it has be done.
One wonders how much goes undetected.
Most of those getting caught are in upper management. Us
lowly grunts don't seem to get involved as often or maybe
there are those among us that are just that much better at
covering our tracks.
Dwight
________________________________________
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> on behalf of Rod Smallwood
<rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com>
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2015 1:45 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: The KGB, the Computer, and Me
Hi
Anybody who has not seen this film (The KGB, the Computer, and Me)
its worth a look. 1980's DEC systems everywhere, LSI terminals, HP kit,
Tape drives in action and apart from the Mac no Windows anywhere.
I think LBL must have bought one of everything.
The story (true) is not bad either.
I now expect to get a long list of weveseenits.
Rod
31 Dec
31 Dec
7 a.m.
[...] industrial espionage [...]
One wonders how much goes undetected.
Most of those getting caught are in upper management. Us lowly
grunts don't seem to get involved as often or maybe there are those
among us that are just that much better at covering our tracks.
Or, when a low-level peon is caught, it doesn't make the news, so the
world at large doesn't notice.
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participants (16)
-
ats＠offog.org -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
curiousmarc3＠gmail.com -
dkelvey＠hotmail.com -
elson＠pico-systems.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
ethan＠757.org -
hilpert＠cs.ubc.ca -
isking＠uw.edu -
jws＠jwsss.com -
mouse＠Rodents-Montreal.ORG -
ray＠arachelian.com -
rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com -
shumaker＠att.net -
silent700＠gmail.com -
will.senn＠gmail.com