28 Feb
2008
28 Feb
'08
7:58 p.m.
As said before, one can easily get some of the small (8 pin dip) micros to do
magic things, but sometimes (as mentioned) it is a bit more trouble than it is
worth. Many of us (me!) have stuff in their junk
boxes^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hclassic part archive that will do the task quite
easily. In my case, I obtained a nice Facit 4070 paper tape punch and made up
a simple interface adapter (it fit inside one of those 2x DB-25 scramble boxes)
to make it function using a PeeCee parallel port. Now if I desire to punch a
paper tape, all I do is a simple copy to the printer port and ...buzzzz... out
comes the tape. Thankfully the Facit 4070 had some power available on its
DB-25, but I needed to play around with all the levels (it used 6 volt levels).
In the end, all it took was a single 74LS00 to do the trick on changing the
strobes to conform.
I suppose I could have used an 8 pin ATMEL chip, but why bother. Sometimes the
"classic" solution is MUCH easier.
I even built up a character font (5x8) so I could punch titles in the tape. Of
course, now I need to get the reader functional, but that is another story.
p.s. If anyone wants details on the interface, contact me off list.
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28 Feb
28 Feb
8:29 p.m.
On 28 Feb 2008 at 16:58, Tom Watson wrote:
In the end, all it took was a single 74LS00 to do the
trick on changing the
strobes to conform.
I suppose I could have used an 8 pin ATMEL chip, but why bother. Sometimes the
"classic" solution is MUCH easier.
Apples and oranges in my opinion. In the OP, the question was how to
decode FSK into a serial bitstream. An 8-pin PIC or AVR will do the
job just fine, with plenty of extra program space left over, perhaps
for parity checking or syncing up on the output stream.
Sure, if I have to invert the level on a single line, I might even
use a discrete transistor or anything else I have rattling around in
my junkbox.
Here's an example of another application that, while you could do it
in discrete logic, is much simpler in a PIC or AVR.
Suppose I want to simulate a hard-sectored floppy by generating
sector pulses using an ordinary soft-sector floppy drive. While I
could set up one-shots and maybe even a PLL to track the floppy
speed, I can use a PIC12F629 to measure the spindle speed and
accurately generate the necessary pulses. I can add input signals to
specify whether I want 10 or 16 sector 300 RPM floppies (4msec pulse
width) or 32 sector (2 msec pulse width) 360 RPM floppies. I can
detect a hard-sectored floppy already inserted in the drive and pass
the sector pulses through without generating any extra ones. Since
I'm watching the index pulse, I can even generate a READY signal when
the speed of the floppy comes within acceptable tolerances.
All within the same 8 pin package. Nothing more than +5 and a pullup
(for the index line from the drive). And I'll still have a couple of
hundred of instructions out of the 1K for enhancements.
How many TTL packages would it take you to do that?
Cheers,
Chuck
29 Feb
29 Feb
10:19 a.m.
On Feb 28, 2008, at 7:58 PM, Tom Watson wrote:
As said before, one can easily get some of the small
(8 pin dip)
micros to do
magic things, but sometimes (as mentioned) it is a bit more trouble
than it is
worth. Many of us (me!) have stuff in their junk
boxes^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hclassic part archive that will do the task
quite
easily. In my case, I obtained a nice Facit 4070 paper tape punch
and made up
a simple interface adapter (it fit inside one of those 2x DB-25
scramble boxes)
to make it function using a PeeCee parallel port. Now if I desire
to punch a
paper tape, all I do is a simple copy to the printer port
and ...buzzzz... out
comes the tape. Thankfully the Facit 4070 had some power available
on its
DB-25, but I needed to play around with all the levels (it used 6
volt levels).
In the end, all it took was a single 74LS00 to do the trick on
changing the
strobes to conform.
I suppose I could have used an 8 pin ATMEL chip, but why bother.
Sometimes the
"classic" solution is MUCH easier.
Well yeah...anyone who would replace a single 74LS00 with a
microcontroller would certainly earn a "moron" sticker on the forehead.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
11:58 a.m.
Dave McGuire wrote:
Well yeah...anyone who would replace a single 74LS00
with a
microcontroller would certainly earn a "moron" sticker on the forehead.
Thinks two 74LS10's instead for his sticker of the day .
I allways wondered what you do with a 8 pin microcontroler. :)
-Dave
5:13 p.m.
New subject: On interfaces, paper tape readers/punches, and single (small) chip micros
At 10:19 AM 2/29/2008 -0500, you wrote:
Or an "Overachiever" sticker, he said euphemistically.
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On Feb 28, 2008, at 7:58 PM, Tom Watson wrote:
>As said before, one can easily get some of the small (8 pin dip)
>micros to do
>magic things, but sometimes (as mentioned) it is a bit more trouble
>than it is
>worth. Many of us (me!) have stuff in their junk
>boxes^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hclassic part archive that will do the task
>quite
In the end,
all it took was a single 74LS00 to do the trick on
changing the
strobes to conform.
I suppose I could have used an 8 pin ATMEL chip, but why bother.
Sometimes the
"classic" solution is MUCH easier.
Well yeah...anyone who would replace a single 74LS00 with a
microcontroller would certainly earn a "moron" sticker on the forehead. 
7:34 p.m.
New subject: On interfaces, paper tape readers/punches,
Well yeah...anyone who would replace a single
74LS00 with a
microcontroller would certainly earn a "moron" sticker on the forehead.
Hang on a sec...
Back in the 'decoding FSK cassette data' theard, somebody suggested 'a
couple of tone dectors and a microcontroller' I asusme the 'tone
detectors' are soemthing like an NE567. In whci case the logic to combine
them into a itstream is only a few logic gates.
And I still feel that the bast way to impleemtn that logic is not a
microcontroller.
-tony
8:31 p.m.
New subject: On interfaces, paper tape readers/punches,
On 1 Mar 2008 at 0:34, Tony Duell wrote:
Back in the 'decoding FSK cassette data'
theard, somebody suggested 'a
couple of tone dectors and a microcontroller' I asusme the 'tone
detectors' are soemthing like an NE567. In whci case the logic to combine
them into a itstream is only a few logic gates.
It wasn't me--I suggested replacing the whole lashup with a uC. I
did mention NE567s but only in the context that they were unnecessary
if one went to a PIC solution.
Cheers,
Chuck
1 Mar
1 Mar
12:47 a.m.
New subject: On interfaces, paper tape readers/punches,
On Feb 29, 2008, at 7:34 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
Ahh, if that's the case, I would agree. I understood the original
suggestion was to implement the tone detection in firmware in the
microcontroller...a perfectly valid approach.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
Well
yeah...anyone who would replace a single 74LS00 with a
microcontroller would certainly earn a "moron" sticker on the
forehead.
Hang on a sec...
Back in the 'decoding FSK cassette data' theard, somebody suggested 'a
couple of tone dectors and a microcontroller' I asusme the 'tone
detectors' are soemthing like an NE567. In whci case the logic to
combine
them into a itstream is only a few logic gates.
And I still feel that the bast way to impleemtn that logic is not a
microcontroller. 
2 Mar
2 Mar
3:52 p.m.
New subject: On interfaces, paper tape readers/punches,
Dave McGuire wrote:
Ahh, if that's the case, I would agree. I
understood the original
suggestion was to implement the tone detection in firmware in the
microcontroller...a perfectly valid approach.
The nifty thing about doing FSK demod with a microcontroller (especially
something like a dsPIC) is that you can do things like tracking the frequency
so tape speed has little effect on the decoding, and maybe some denoising to
get rid of the cack in the filter zone.
Could be an interesting project... maybe.
--
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http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | (")_(") world domination.
1 Mar
1 Mar
8:32 p.m.
New subject: On interfaces, paper tape readers/punches,
On Friday 29 February 2008 19:34, Tony Duell wrote:
I do indeed have a board around here someplace that I have no info on, but
it's got a row of those -- 12? -- and the outputs of them seem to be coupled
to a couple of 7400 chips.
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
Well
yeah...anyone who would replace a single 74LS00 with a
microcontroller would certainly earn a "moron" sticker on the forehead.
Hang on a sec...
Back in the 'decoding FSK cassette data' theard, somebody suggested 'a
couple of tone dectors and a microcontroller' I asusme the 'tone
detectors' are soemthing like an NE567. In whci case the logic to combine
them into a itstream is only a few logic gates.
And I still feel that the bast way to impleemtn that logic is not a
microcontroller. 
11:51 p.m.
New subject: On interfaces, paper tape readers/punches,
"Roy J. Tellason" wrote:
I do indeed have a board around here someplace that I
have no info on, but
it's got a row of those -- 12? -- and the outputs of them seem to be coupled
to a couple of 7400 chips.
..early DTMF decoder perhaps? (although the count should be 7 or 8 for DTMF).
Alternatively, some proprietary radio signalling/control stuff used multiple tones.
2 Mar
2 Mar
12:19 a.m.
New subject: On interfaces, paper tape readers/punches,
On Saturday 01 March 2008 23:51, Brent Hilpert wrote:
"Roy J. Tellason" wrote:
I was thinking so, the input is fed through what could be a phone line
transformer, not too different from what I've seen on some internal modems.
I do indeed have a board around here someplace
that I have no info on,
but it's got a row of those -- 12? -- and the outputs of them seem to be
coupled to a couple of 7400 chips.
..early DTMF decoder perhaps? (although the count should be 7 or 8 for DTMF).
I could be mis-remembering that part, too. It's been a while since I've seen
it, a couple of years anyhow.
Alternatively, some proprietary radio
signalling/control stuff used
multiple tones.
It's a fairly populated board, for only being 4 or 5 inches square, with
lots of stuff on it besides what was mentioned. I recall 2 or 3 TO-220 or
TO-202 devices, a bunch of smaller transistors of assorted types, and a
couple of handfuls of discrete components. It'd be nice if I knew what it
came out of, then it might barely be possible to get some info on it
without having to laboriously trace it out.
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
12:35 p.m.
New subject: On interfaces, paper tape readers/punches,
I do indeed have a board around here someplace that I
have no info on, b=
ut=20
it's got a row of those -- 12? -- and the outputs of them seem to be coup=
I assume 'those' means HE567s
led=20
to a couple of 7400 chips.
Had it been 7 or 8, I'd have guessed they were set to the row and column
tones for a standard teletphone DTMF keypad, and that the logic combined
them to produce a separate output for each key.
With 12, it _might_ be a selective calling decoder from a private radio
system, or soemthing like that.
-tony
4:03 p.m.
New subject: On interfaces, paper tape readers/punches,
On Sunday 02 March 2008 12:35, Tony Duell wrote:
Some kind of 567, anyhow.
As I posted earlier, I may have mis-remembered how many of them there were,
it having been at least a couple of years since I've seen that board.
The tone decoders and gates wouldn't be too much trouble to trace out, but
then there's all that stuff on the rest of the board, with no easy pattern
to it, and bunches of points tying to the card-edge connector.
Is there any "standard" designations for the common 44-pin edge connector?
Any "standard" about which pins are component-side and which are solder-side?
Common usage of any of those pins? I haven't run across any such, so far.
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
I do indeed
have a board around here someplace that I have no info on,
b= ut=20
it's got a row of those -- 12? -- and the outputs of them seem to be
coup=
I assume 'those' means HE567s led=20
to a couple of 7400 chips.
Had it been 7 or 8, I'd have guessed they were set to the row and column
tones for a standard teletphone DTMF keypad, and that the logic combined
them to produce a separate output for each key.
29 Feb
29 Feb
7:01 p.m.
New subject: On interfaces, paper tape readers/punches,
As said before, one can easily get some of the small (8 pin dip) micros to do
magic things, but sometimes (as mentioned) it is a bit more trouble than it is
worth. Many of us (me!) have stuff in their junk
boxes^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hclassic part archive that will do the task quite
easily. In my case, I obtained a nice Facit 4070 paper tape punch and made up
a simple interface adapter (it fit inside one of those 2x DB-25 scramble boxes)
to make it function using a PeeCee parallel port. Now if I desire to punch a
paper tape, all I do is a simple copy to the printer port and ...buzzzz... out
comes the tape. Thankfully the Facit 4070 had some power available on its
Somewhat surpisingly, when I wanted to do this, I just wrote a bit of
software to drive the PC port lines appropriately. It wasn't that
difficult :-)
DB-25, but I needed to play around with all the levels
(it used 6 volt levels).
In the end, all it took was a single 74LS00 to do the trick on changing the
strobes to conform.
I seem to rememebr that when I did it that way, I used a '74 D-type and a
quad gate package (I forget which).
A word of warning to anyone working on a 4070. The interface may not be
what you expect!. The 4070 has 2 edge connectors and PCBs in the bototm
of the unit. The top board, in evey case that I've seen, is the standard
Facit control logic/PSU, and has the interface you've been usign The
lower edge connector intercepts the interface signals between this board
and the DB25 on the back of the unit. Im _many_ cases there's a simple
jumper board in that slot, so you get the 'Facit parallel' interface on
the D25. But they certainly made a serial interface (RS232 and current
loop) to go there -- I have one. An IEEE-488 interface has been rumoured,
but I've not seen that. And HP badged this punch but put their own
interface i nthat slot, it inverts some of the signals, etc.
-tony
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