11 Dec
2005
11 Dec
'05
11:05 a.m.
Does anyone have any documentation or software (other than IEEEFS 0.5
and NIEEE 0.2) for Acorn's IEEE488 interface for the beeb? It seems like
almost nothing has survived...
Cheers,
Eelco
11 Dec
11 Dec
11:54 a.m.
Eelco Huininga wrote:
Does anyone have any documentation or software (other
than IEEEFS 0.5
and NIEEE 0.2) for Acorn's IEEE488 interface for the beeb?
Amazingly, I've got the "IEEE488 interface user guide" for the BBC micro.
I remember your message on the BBC list about this, and had a *really* vague
recollection at the time of seeing something to do with the unit a while back
amongst piles of other stuff. I had absolutely no idea where it'd be though -
assuming I hadn't imagined it anyway (and that it was even something useful).
Then I went and spotted the darn thing on top of a pile of to-be-sorted Acorn
stuff about an hour ago - so good timing on a second posting here!
It's 86 pages including covers, but it is A5 size, so I could try and scan it
at two pages per scan on my A4 scanner sometime - not sure if I'll get chance
this side of Christmas, although I can try....
Oh, I probably already have a scan of the Acorn advertising for the unit too
(it'll just be an A4 page), although I'm surprised that's not already out
there in electronic form.
I've also got the schematic for the Acorn System IEEE488 card somewhere - it
wouldn't surprise me if the BBC unit is based heavily on this (I don't think I
have the actual BBC version's schematics though, although I'll check)
It seems like almost nothing has survived...
I don't think they were widely used. I suppose the BBC micro came with enough
expansion options that most people had no need for it.
Cambridge university still had one as of last year, but I'm not sure what's
happened to it since or if there was any software with it (almost certainly
not; hardware from there seems to usually get thrown out separately to
software / manuals). This was heard via someone else, so I'm not even sure who
the contact there was.
Kent uni almost certainly used to have one too, as that's where my Teletext
adapter came from - with an IEEE488 box lid!
I've also got a complete unit in the cupboard (but no BBC-side ROM to go with it)
I *think* Tony Duell (on this list) has one too. Other than that, those are
the only four (well, three and a lid) I've ever heard of.
cheers
Jules
12:24 p.m.
On 12/11/2005 at 4:54 PM Jules Richardson wrote:
Eelco Huininga wrote:
> Does anyone have any documentation or software (other than IEEEFS 0.5
> and NIEEE 0.2) for Acorn's IEEE488 interface for the beeb?
On a slight tangent--is there really anything else required for
medium-speed HPIB support other than a bidirectional 8-bit port with a few
handshaking lines? It seems to me that th Victor 9000 advertised IEEE-488
capability with little more than a "dumb" parallel port.
Cheers,
Chuck
2:19 p.m.
On 12/11/2005 at 4:54 PM Jules Richardson wrote:
Eelco Huininga wrote:
> Does anyone have any documentation or software (other than IEEEFS 0.5
> and NIEEE 0.2) for Acorn's IEEE488 interface for the beeb?
On a slight tangent--is there really anything else required for
medium-speed HPIB support other than a bidirectional 8-bit port with a few
handshaking lines? It seems to me that th Victor 9000 advertised IEEE-488 From waht I rememebr you can do almost all the IEEE-488
stuff purely in
software (the handshake is interlocked, in that something is
changed by
one device. then the other device changes some other line, then the first
device can change a line, etc. THere's no chance of missing anything). I
did say 'almost all' -- IIRC there's one thing you can't do like that,
you need to do it in hardware. But it only takes a couple of gates.
Commodoe, and even HP, did do the HPIB interface in software in some of
their machines. For example the HP82169 HPIL - HPIB interface contains a
custom HPIB buffer chip, but it is just a buffer. The actual logic is
handled by the microcontroller (8049 IIRC).
capability with little more than a "dumb"
parallel port.
IIRC, (and I don't haev the schematic in front of me) the Sirius (Victor
9000) used a 6522 with some propper HPIB buffers (75160, etc). This was
used for the Centronics parallel port, but with the right cable and
software it could be used as an IEEE-488 port. Alas I've never seen the
'right software'
-tony
12 Dec
12 Dec
5:52 p.m.
On Sunday 11 December 2005 12:24, you wrote:
On 12/11/2005 at 4:54 PM Jules Richardson wrote:
If your goal is to be a controller in a single controller system,you can do
IEEE-488 with only i/o ports and proper drivers (75160/75161/75162)
If you are trying to make a target device you need hardware help. The
required time to get off the bus when ATN is asserted is far too short
to do in software. Just a couple of gates will do. All you need do is
detect the assertion of ATN ,disable the drivers and force not ready
for data. The CPU can take its time setting outputs to the correct state
before re enabling the drivers NRFD will hold off the controller.
I know a lot of systems that implement IEEE-488 controller with nothing
more than PIAs and drivers.
joe lang
Eelco Huininga wrote:
> Does anyone have any documentation or software (other than IEEEFS 0.5
> and NIEEE 0.2) for Acorn's IEEE488 interface for the beeb?
On a slight tangent--is there really anything else required for
medium-speed HPIB support other than a bidirectional 8-bit port with a few
handshaking lines? It seems to me that th Victor 9000 advertised IEEE-488
capability with little more than a "dumb" parallel port.
Cheers,
Chuck
11 Dec
11 Dec
2:35 p.m.
I've also got the schematic for the Acorn System
IEEE488 card somewhere - it
wouldn't surprise me if the BBC unit is based heavily on this (I don't think I
It might be, it might not. The 'Acorn' IEEE-488 interface for the Beeb
doesn't seem to be an Acorn design.
The article to find is in 'Electronics and Wireless World' February 1984,
pages 24-26 ('IEEE488 interface for the BBC Microcomputer'). It imples
the interface was actually designed by a company called 'Intellegent
Interfaces'.
Anyway, there is a schematic. It's based round a 9914 chip along with the
75160 and 75162 buffers. There's a 5MHz clock circuit, an address
decoder, a data bus buffer, and the normal circuit to de-glitch the page
select line on the 1MHz bus. That's all. Nothing remotely odd.
Link S1 selects system controller mode, link S2 selects active pull-ups
on the IEEE488 data lines.
The other useful thing in this article is an example program using the
IEEEFS filesystem ROM, and a list of the commands you can use with the
interface. It appears you open a 'file' called "COMMAND" and another
called "DATA", you write command strings to the first one and use the
second one to actually transfer data on the bus. Addressing looks totally
strange, you seem to open a file with a name correspodning to the device
address in decimal and then use the file handle of _that_ file in
subsequent comamnds. Hmmm...
I've also got a complete unit in the cupboard (but
no BBC-side ROM to go with it)
I *think* Tony Duell (on this list) has one too. Other than that, those are
I do. I think I might also have the IEEEFS ROM that goes with it, but I
can't promise that.
You;'ve just made me worried. I am going to have to try to find my unit
to see if it agrees with the circuit in Wireless World.
-tony
4:13 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
Aha. I've dug my unit out - on the back it says "Made in Britain for Acorn
Computers" - rather than "by Acorn". There's no manufacturer's name
written
inside - but there is an "II" beside the Acorn part number on the PCB.
I certainly don't have one...
I've also
got the schematic for the Acorn System IEEE488 card somewhere - it
wouldn't surprise me if the BBC unit is based heavily on this (I don't think I
It might be, it might not. The 'Acorn' IEEE-488 interface for the Beeb
doesn't seem to be an Acorn design.
The article to find is in 'Electronics and Wireless World' February 1984,
pages 24-26 ('IEEE488 interface for the BBC Microcomputer'). It imples
the interface was actually designed by a company called 'Intellegent
Interfaces'. The other useful thing in this article is an example
program using the
IEEEFS filesystem ROM, and a list of the commands you can use with the
interface. It appears you open a 'file' called "COMMAND" and another
called "DATA", you write command strings to the first one and use the
second one to actually transfer data on the bus. Addressing looks totally
strange, you seem to open a file with a name correspodning to the device
address in decimal and then use the file handle of _that_ file in
subsequent comamnds. Hmmm...
Hmm, I see what you mean. The manual looks very comprehensive with lots of
examples - but I can't see where it justifies why the addressing is done in
this way.
I *think* Tony
Duell (on this list) has one too. Other than that, those are
I do. I think I might also have the IEEEFS ROM that goes with it, but I
can't promise that. You;'ve just made me worried. I am going to have
to try to find my unit
to see if it agrees with the circuit in Wireless World.
From your description, the one that I have certainly does - 9914 IC, 5MHz
clock, 75160 and 75162 buffers.
I *think* we've got a stack of Electronics and Wireless World issues, so I'll
have to look for the article...
cheers
Jules
4:22 p.m.
Jules Richardson wrote:
From your description, the one that I have certainly
does - 9914 IC,
5MHz clock, 75160 and 75162 buffers.
I *think* we've got a stack of Electronics and Wireless World issues,
so I'll have to look for the article...
and keep a good look out for the home built computers.
You can't get them on this side of the pond. I quit subcribing to them when
they wanted payment in US $ for outside the UK. I live in Canada, no way
I will pay a double exchange rate.
cheers
5:43 p.m.
I *think*
we've got a stack of Electronics and Wireless World issues,
so I'll have to look for the article...
and keep a good look out for the home built computers.
4:20 p.m.
You;'ve just made me worried. I am going to have
to try to find my unit
to see if it agrees with the circuit in Wireless World.
I needn't have worried...
I have found my 'Acron' IEEE-488 interface. It's the normal 'cheese
wedge' case, but the intenral layout is not what you might expect. There
is no PSU at the front as in the second processors, instead there's a
metal plate screwed there. There's a PCB down the left side of the bottom
(it looks to be approximately extended-length single-height Eurocard
dimensions). There's a mains transformer screwed to the bottom of the
case alongside it, with the normal switch and fuse on the back.
I have not compared the circuit in detail to the E&WW article. But the IC
numbers all agree, and from what I can see the circuit does too.
-tony
5:08 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
Yes, I almost mentioned that, but I think I've seen it in one of the other
cheese wedge boxes too. Might have been the Econet bridge, or possibly the
Prestel adapter...
cheers
J.
You;'ve
just made me worried. I am going to have to try to find my unit
to see if it agrees with the circuit in Wireless World.
I needn't have worried...
I have found my 'Acron' IEEE-488 interface. It's the normal 'cheese
wedge' case, but the intenral layout is not what you might expect. There
is no PSU at the front as in the second processors, instead there's a
metal plate screwed there.
5:39 p.m.
I have found
my 'Acron' IEEE-488 interface. It's the normal 'cheese
wedge' case, but the intenral layout is not what you might expect. There
is no PSU at the front as in the second processors, instead there's a
metal plate screwed there.
Yes, I almost mentioned that, but I think I've seen it in one of the other
cheese wedge boxes too. Might have been the Econet bridge, or possibly the
Prestel adapter...
13 Dec
13 Dec
4:05 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
Tony et al,
FYI - the following was posted to comp.sys.acorn.hardware earlier on from
Andrew Ray of Intelligent Interfaces in response to Eelco's post there:
<<<
In the early 1980s Intelligent Interfaces designed, developed, manufactured
and supported the Acorn IEEE488 Interface for the BBC Microcomputer. It was
based on the Texas TMS9914 IC to provide the talker, listener and controller
functions. All interfaces supplied by Acorn were housed in a modified (by
Intelligent Interfaces) version of the plastic case originally used for the
Teletext Adapter. There was never an Acorn-designed IEEE488 Interface for
the BBC Microcomputer. Intelligent Interfaces never supplied the interface
in a different case before supplying it to Acorn. However, after a number of
years, when Acorn discontinued it as a product, Intelligent Interfaces
supplied the interface direct to customers in a customized standard metal
case.
I do not think that the software for any of the third party, Watford, Procyon,
etc IEEE488 Interfaces for the BBC Microcomputer was compatible with the
Acorn interface because they used different contoller ICs.
I remember that Acorn advertised an IEEE488 Interface for the Series I, II,
III and IV systems based on the Motorola MC684448P which only provided the
talker and listener functions. However, while designing and developing the
Acorn IEEE488 Interface I was never shown one.
The interface was supplied with an IEEE filing system (IEEEFS), in ROM.
Subsequently, the new firmware (NIEEE), provided in a sideways ROM, was
written to enable the interface to be used with the National Semiconductors
32000 series processor based Cambridge Coprocessor and Workstation but could
also be used with other coprocessors and standalone BBC Microcomputers. It
gave much higher data transfer rates, making it ideal for use with digital
storage oscilloscopes and spectrum analyzers etc.
You;'ve
just made me worried. I am going to have to try to find my unit
to see if it agrees with the circuit in Wireless World.
I needn't have worried...
I have found my 'Acron' IEEE-488 interface. >>
copied here for the benefit of any interested people who don't read c.s.a.h.
cheers
Jules
7:25 p.m.
The interface was supplied with an IEEE filing system
(IEEEFS), in ROM.
Subsequently, the new firmware (NIEEE), provided in a sideways ROM, was
written to enable the interface to be used with the National Semiconductors
32000 series processor based Cambridge Coprocessor and Workstation but could
Now why do I suddently want this, and where the heck do I find it? I do
know the ROM I got with my IEEE-488 interface is IEEEFS, alas.
-tony
11 Dec
11 Dec
2:07 p.m.
Does anyone have any documentation or software (other than IEEEFS 0.5
and NIEEE 0.2) for Acorn's IEEE488 interface for the beeb? It seems like
almost nothing has survived...
There was an article in the UK magazine 'Electronics and Wireless World'
in 1984 (I think) which included a schematic of the BBC IEEE-488
interface. I can find more details if anyone's interested (I know I have
said article, I also have one of the interfaces).
-tony
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