Regardless of how in error the seller describes it, if a potential buyers knows what it is and how to use it, it could be very useful. Good deals can be had from sellers that don't know what they are dealing with, whether on eBay or elsewhere. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

If I was in need of it, yes. Any type of external SCSI cable bought locally will likely cost more than that, especially the newer types. If you're able to find them used at thrift stores or whatnot, that's fine, but it's my experience that you rarely find much SCSI anything at thrift stores. At least in the areas I've frequented. You can also go to the sellers at the big computer shows and maybe pay less than that but it will cost you $5 or so to get into the show so it doesn't make much sense to go just to buy that cable. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

I have about 20 SCSI cables haning in the closet. These are from a batch that I bought for $1.50 at a thrift store. Are you saying that eBay, which should be a measure of the highest prices the market will bear, should beat that sort of deal? After all, there's bargain hunting, where you buy things not because you need them but because the price is good, and then there's Bargain Hunting, where you gratefully pay 15% less than what you normally have to pay for something you need right now. The two don't mix well. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 12:40 PM Subject: Re: This is funny (ebay)

Dick, What is this program of Adaptec's? What platform does it support? I have a 2940u2w in my pc (this machine), and I'd love to check scsi drive performance. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Richard Erlacher wrote:

I must have the OEM version. In fact, I think I have one version behind the current, as well. I'm not sure I got EZSCSI with my 2940u2w. I don't use it in this computer, just the current driver. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Richard Erlacher wrote:

Definitely, if they don't know what it is, they can't very well dictate it's market value. That leaves it to me. If on Ebay, it isn't listed correctly, fewer people will see it, and that is helpful for me as well...... less competition! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Jeff Hellige wrote:

Oner thing that would, IMHO, improve eBay quite a little bit, would be for bidders to bid a price including shipping. I know that would favor private parties, for whom a trip to the post office wouldn't be a big thing, over businesses whose shipping demands would require pickup, but that would be O.K. in my book. Comments? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Walker" <lgwalker(a)mts.net> To: "Chad Fernandez" <fernande(a)internet1.net>et>; <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 7:05 PM Subject: Re: This is funny (eBay) Syquest

I've found that usually most sellers don't scam when they convert to Can. shipping. I usually avoid the ones that have a flat (fat) rate. I do wonder about the cart sellers who sell for $1 and have a $5 handling charge. $US30 works out to about $CAN45. But fish, moose&deer, wildfowl, and houses are cheap in the northern midwest. Can't have it all. Lawrence Reply to: lgwalker(a)mts.net

On Sat, 23 Feb 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: Because unless you do daily shipping of packages, it is damned expensive and inconvenient. On that cable, USPS will run $3.50 or $4. Five bucks to find a box/mailer, pack it, address it, and take it to the P.O., probably equals about $2.50/hr wages for most of us. Not to say that the $40 S&H I often see on 20lb systems is right or reasonable.... Doc

On Sat, 23 Feb 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: Yup. For small items, USPS is my choice. But even with a free box & label, if you count bookkeeping and trip time, actual shipping plus $5.10 handling ain't even close to minimum wage. And on the buyers' side, $9 shipping is about what it would cost me in time & gas to drive around and get one. Unless the seller is obviously a business, I just don't see total S&H of under $10 as being excessive if the item is bigger than a couple of SIMMs.... Doc

On 23-Feb-2002 Richard Erlacher wrote: Isn't that just a PC printer port : DB25 -> "centronics" ? -Philip

The SCSI ZIP drives we have all have the DB25 connector on the ZIP end as well. I've got an Iomega ZIP SCSI cable that I use for connecting an old CMS SCSI hard disk up to my Mac Plus. Isn't it actually going the other way, allowing you to connect a SCSI device up to a USB connection? I've got a 'Shuttle Connection' cable, supplied by Philips with thier SCSI OMNIwriter CD-RW, that allows it to be connected to a parallel printer port. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

... a WISE choice ... Does anybody know whether the cable pinout at the DB25 end is the same for both Syquest and Apple products? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Walker" <lgwalker(a)mts.net> To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 7:05 PM Subject: Re: This is funny (ebay) drive has work

On Sat, 23 Feb 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: OK, maybe my deal is related to that, maybe not. It's been bugging me for a while, though. I have a number of older Seagate Hawk narrow SCSI 1G-2G drives. I have a couple of LC 475s, the SE/30, and a IIci. I've never gotten one of the Seagates to work as the internal drive on any of the older Macs without using a cable terminator. I've tried term power to drive, to bus, from bus, and IIRC, one of the 1G Hawks allows term power both to the drive and from the bus. Never works. Terminated cable always works. "Somebody 'splain this wonderment to me!" Doc

Whoa, because my A/UX IIci has a Seagate Hawk 1GB in it as its main drive and there's never been a problem. What specific model number are you using? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu -- FORTUNE: Don't abandon hope: your Tom Mix decoder ring arrives tomorrow. ---

Is it possible you're mixing two things up? Most of the later SCSI drives that any/all devices can be providers of Termpwr, since only one will have the highest voltage, hence be the source, as it supposed to be diode-isolated from the SCSI bus. To implement this option, they provided two jumpers, typically, which allowed for four options. (1) Termpwr provided by the drive, and to its terminators from its own power supply, (2) Termpwr provided by the drive, and to the bus, but its terminators powered fom the SCSI bus, (3) Termpwr provided by the bus to its internal terminators, and (4) isolation from Termpwr, but its terminations powered from its own supply. This did not affect whether or not internal termination was enabled or disabled. That was a separate choice, handled by a separate option. Since the Apple SCSI doesn''t provide Termpwr, and since Termpwr is supposed to be diode-isolated (source can drive the bus, but bus can't drive the source) from the bus, any or all devices are permitted to drive Termpwr. Only one will actually drive it until the voltage is pulled down to where another might do so. It's not risky to have more than one device drive the Termpwr line, though it's safest to know which is driving it and make sure it's enabled there. If your system consists of a computer and a varying set of external devices, it's easiest just to enable Termpwr at the host adapter and be done with it. Since that's not an option with the Apple devices, you must have it supplied by some device that's usually attached to the SCSI bus. Just pick one that's normally there, and be prepared to enable it on some other device if it isn't provided otherwise. Not all drives have internal termination capability. On older drives, e.g. the Hawk series, IIRC, the termination is obvious, as it's a pair, or maybe three, R-packs. This is easily dealt with, since you have to remove them from the drive unless that physical drive is at one end of the SCSI chain or the other. It's a good thing to keep in mind that when you have both an internal and an external SCSI bus, your host adapter generally is in the middle, hence should have no termination resistors on board. Once again, the provision of Termpwr and the provision of termination are two separate issues. Both must be dealt with correctly, else the system is unlikely to work properly. The device that provides Termpwr does not have to have its terminations enabled/present, and the devices at the ends of the cable MUST have terminations enabled/present, though they needn't be the source of Termpwr. I've noticed on several occasions, when using DB25-interfaced SCSI devices, that Termpwr is not present, and/or that termination is not necessarily available on those devices. In general, it's easy simply to stick an external terminator on the ends of the SCSI chain. Termination has no effect on addressing or on Termpwr, so the only consideration is its location. If you seldom use more than one external device, or if you ALWAYS use a specific one, it's reasonable to install/enable the terminations in that device and install other SCSI devices between the host adapter and that device, which then saves you the installation/moving/easter-egg-hunt-for the external terminator. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc" <doc(a)mdrconsult.com> To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 1:18 AM Subject: Apple SCSI TermPWR; Was Re: This is funny (ebay)

See below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc" &lt;doc(a)mdrconsult.comTo: &lt;classiccmp(a)classiccmp.orgSent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 8:09 AM Subject: Re: Apple SCSI TermPWR; Was Re: This is funny (ebay) <snipYes, it's easier to track where the termination is if you can see the terminator. If Termpwr is present, even from one device, easily visible if you use one of the "active" terminators that has an indicator LED, and the terminations are present at both ends of the cable, things should work OK. The device ID can make othewise healthy devices invisible as well. If two devices use the same device ID, most often neither of them will be visible, and certainly, neither will function properly. What I do on my PC's, is keep the internal device ID's lower than 4 and the external ones above. I use 7 (the controller's ID) as the dividing line with WIDE SCSI. The server, for OTOH, has drives on ID=15 through ID=8 internally, and the external devices use addresses in the range 1..6, with no ID of 0, though that option is still open, for either internal or external devices. supposed <snipDo you mean that the drives have jumper programmable terminators? of <snip I like to download a copy of the jumper sheet and other requirements for my externally packaged devices and put that sheet in the enclosure with the device in question if at all possible. The externally packaged units get much less internal attention than the internal ones, so it's likely I'll have less trouble finding the info if it's in the box. That's abolutely the easiest way to do it. I can't magine why this doesn't work with the Apple products, though.

If you're going to hack this in, and if there's no other current limiting, be sure to include a fuse for, say, 1/2-1 ampere in series with the diode, else the diode or, worse, something else, e.g. a trace or a cable, will become the fuse in case of a short. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" &lt;ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk&gt; To: &lt;classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org&gt; Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 12:49 PM Subject: Re: Apple SCSI TermPWR; Was Re: This is funny (ebay) supposed

I didn't mean current limiting for the entire supply, but rather just for the Termpwr. I'm no longer sure whether it's to be limited to one ampere or a half an ampere, or what. I never used to forget once I had things written down, and this is specified in the standard. Apple probably left out the diode so they wouldn't have to put in the fuse. It does cost money, after all. Diodes seem to make pretty cheap fuses, too, unless there's no fuse in the circuit, in which case they'll hold up until some major component fails. If there's a fuse, the diode will, of course, fail first. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" &lt;ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk&gt; To: &lt;classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org&gt; Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 4:52 PM Subject: Re: Apple SCSI TermPWR; Was Re: This is funny (ebay) be else

Hi, "Richard Erlacher" &lt;edick(a)idcomm.com&gt; said: Also a silicon diode will lose 0.6 - 0.7 Volts, which may or may not be important... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb(a)dial.pipex.com The future was never like this!

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Yes, but since there's a standard to which most manufacturers give at least a little attention, the fact that a computer's 5-volt supply may be limited to 50 Amps while a CDROM drive may have a supply limited to 2, makes the notion of inherent current limiting due to power supply design somwhat limited as far as its usefulness in limiting the current to the SCSI TermPwr line. Anyway, the standard goes into considerable detail about this seemingly uniteresting (to the folks at Apple Computer Co.) detail. It's published on the web, so I invite anyone who wants to know this stuff to have a look. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" &lt;ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk&gt; To: &lt;classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org&gt; Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 12:44 PM Subject: Re: Apple SCSI TermPWR; Was Re: This is funny (ebay) the in fails.

On Sun, 24 Feb 2002, Doc wrote: I don't think that it is the same problem. I think that Trantor's problem was that their external parallel to SCSI gadgets (T338, etc.) needed TERMPWR, and some of the existing cables that had the right connectors (serial and centronics :-) didn't pass TermPWR through.

Well I can only say that I've used my Syquest EZ135 with no problems on several early Macs. My EZ135 came with both a DB25 and SCSI to SCSI connector with which I connected to an Adaptec 1522. Lawrence Reply to: lgwalker(a)mts.net