15 Aug
2002
15 Aug
'02
7:36 a.m.
I am trying to help someone find a game that apparently shipped with the
IBM PC. Below is the description.
--
First of all thank you very much for offering to help. This game is a
crossing between mastermind and trivial pursuit.The graphics were
extremely simple, similar to the mastermind board. The purpose of the
game was to guess or identify a famous person or event?with the fewest
hints or clues given. The lesser hints needed the more points scored,
and I think there were up to 5 (I'm not so sure about the actual number)
clues given, if unable to recognize the identity, well, your score
wasn?t very high and you were given the right answer and passed on to
the next clue. e.g.
1. shot from behind during the performance of Our American Cousin
and then hints no.2, 3, 4 & 5?would be even more obvious, gradually
disclosing more information in the?following clues.?
So this game is different, because in similar games you know the
character or the event and you just have to choose a correct answer
among four or five options, so there is not much of a challenge, you end
up guessing, not identifying which makes it much more interesting.
It was a preloaded software game included in the brand new IBM pcs here
in Mexico during the mid 90's. It was called "Pistas" , Spanish word
for?"clues" or "hints". ??I tried contacting IBM, both here in Mexico
and USA, but unless I give them exact model (and almost serial number)
of the machine I saw it in, they cannot help me. Unfortunately, I didn't
pay much attention to the pc itself since I came across this game a lot
in demo pcs all over town. I never imagined they would suddenly stop
using it , and when I called them, it simply got me nowhere.
--
Any idea what game this person is talking about? And if so, anyone know
where to get a copy?
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
15 Aug
15 Aug
8:07 a.m.
On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
It was a preloaded software game included in the brand
new IBM pcs here
in Mexico during the mid 90's. It was called "Pistas" , Spanish word
--
Any idea what game this person is talking about? And if so, anyone know
where to get a copy?
Well, DONKEY was the only game that was included with IBM PCs (5150) in
the US, although there were a couple of other "entertaining" BASIC demo
programs included.
"during the mid 90s"?!? That would surely be a model other than
"PC",
wouldn't it?
8:49 a.m.
On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
You know, I missed that. I was assuming they were referring to the
original PCs.
BTW, I posted that message a couple nights ago. Message approval is
awfully slow around here.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
It was a preloaded software game included in the
brand new IBM pcs here
in Mexico during the mid 90's. It was called "Pistas" , Spanish word
--
Any idea what game this person is talking about? And if so, anyone know
where to get a copy?
Well, DONKEY was the only game that was included with IBM PCs (5150) in
the US, although there were a couple of other "entertaining" BASIC demo
programs included.
"during the mid 90s"?!? That would surely be a model other than
"PC",
wouldn't it? 
8:50 a.m.
At 01:06 PM 8/13/02 -0700, you wrote:
Any idea what game this person is talking about? And if so, anyone know
where to get a copy?
I was in a surplus store today and saw a package today that had a disk and several
manuals for a game called "Clues" but it was for the C-64. I didn't read the
manuals so I don't know anything about the game.rer
BUT I did find a 6 inch high stack of manuals for the RCA Cosmac VIP :-) :-) :-) :-)
Joe
19 Aug
19 Aug
8:37 a.m.
New subject: COSMAC VIP documentation (was Re: Need help finding old IBM PC game)
--- Joe <rigdonj(a)cfl.rr.com> wrote:
I was in a surplus store today and...
... did find a 6 inch high stack of manuals for the RCA Cosmac VIP
:-) :-) :-) :-)
Did you get them? If so, what part numbers? I have a 2" stack of
COSMAC VIP manuals (and the VIP to go with them).
-ethan
__________________________________________________
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9:43 a.m.
New subject: COSMAC VIP documentation (was Re: Need help finding old IBM PC game)
At 10:36 AM 8/19/02 -0700, you wrote:
--- Joe <rigdonj(a)cfl.rr.com> wrote:
You bet!
If so, what part numbers?
<http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=rigdonj>
No one seemed interested so I put them on E-bay. If you're interested in the VIP or
ELFs then take a good look at them, there's LOTS of good info in them.
I have a 2" stack of
I was in a surplus store today and...
... did find a 6 inch high stack of manuals for the RCA Cosmac VIP
:-) :-) :-) :-)
Did you get them? COSMAC VIP manuals (and the VIP to go with them).
I have a VIP too (altough Mike has it at the moment). I bought at a hamfest earlier
this year. I bought the manuals from the same people except they were at their store. 99%
chance that these manuals went with that same VIP.
Joe
-ethan
________________________
11:48 a.m.
New subject: COSMAC VIP documentation (was Re: Need help finding old IBM PC game)
--- Joe <rigdonj(a)cfl.rr.com> wrote:
At 10:36 AM 8/19/02 -0700, you wrote:
Good for you.
--- Joe <rigdonj(a)cfl.rr.com> wrote:
You bet! I was in a surplus store today and...
... did find a 6 inch high stack of manuals for the RCA Cosmac VIP
:-) :-) :-) :-)
Did you get them? If so, what part numbers?
http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dllViewSellersOtherItems&userid=r…
No one seemed interested so I put them on E-bay. If
you're interested in
the VIP or ELFs then take a good look at them, there's LOTS of good info
in them.
Looks like I have originals for all of the photocopied data sheets
and RCA manuals you have (and possibly one or two you don't), but I
do not have any issues of VIPER.
I have a VIP too (altough Mike has it at the
moment). I bought at a
hamfest earlier this year. I bought the manuals from the same people
except they were at their store. 99% chance that these manuals went with
that same VIP.
I got my VIP about 16 years ago for $35 at Dayton (same year I got
an ASR-33 w/110 baud data set for $20). What manuals I have, came
from the local RCA distributor for cover price ($5) or
free.
Somewhere, I have a cassette of CHIP-8 and most of the CHIP-8 games
from the VIP manuals - I typed it all in and saved it
to tape myself.
One of my ultra-low priority projects is to locate the tape, slurp
it into a modern machine and cut MP3s of the programs and see if I
can use my Rio PMP300 (or portable CDDA/MP3 player) as a load device.
-ethan
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12:38 p.m.
New subject: COSMAC VIP documentation (was Re: Need help finding old IBM PC game)
At 01:47 PM 8/19/02 -0700, you wrote:
I got this VIP for substantially less than that at a recent hamfest. Mike Haas and I
had both been over this guys stuff at least three times then I decided to go through the
stuff one more time while Mike went and got the car. That's when I found the VIP.
Needless to say, Mike was quite upset! It's amazing how many times you can look
through the same stuff and still find something that you previously overlooked.
--- Joe <rigdonj(a)cfl.rr.com> wrote:
The VIPER news-letters are really great. There's loads of good info in them. Mike
has PILES of RCA docs for the Cosmac, ELF, VIP and other 1802 stuff.
At 10:36 AM 8/19/02 -0700, you wrote:
Good for you.
--- Joe <rigdonj(a)cfl.rr.com> wrote:
You bet! I was in a surplus store today and...
... did find a 6 inch high stack of manuals for the RCA Cosmac VIP
:-) :-) :-) :-)
Did you get them? If so, what part numbers?
http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dllViewSellersOtherItems&userid=r…
No one seemed interested so I put them on E-bay.
If you're interested in
the VIP or ELFs then take a good look at them, there's LOTS of good info
in them.
Looks like I have originals for all of the photocopied data sheets
and RCA manuals you have (and possibly one or two you don't), but I
do not have any issues of VIPER. I have a VIP too (altough Mike has it at the
moment). I bought at a
hamfest earlier this year. I bought the manuals from the same people
except they were at their store. 99% chance that these manuals went with
that same VIP.
I got my VIP about 16 years ago for $35 at Dayton (same year I got
an ASR-33 w/110 baud data set for $20). What manuals I have, came
from the local RCA distributor for cover price ($5) or free.
Somewhere, I have a cassette of CHIP-8 and most of the CHIP-8 games
from the VIP manuals - I typed it all in and saved it to tape myself.
One of my ultra-low priority projects is to locate the tape, slurp
it into a modern machine and cut MP3s of the programs and see if I
can use my Rio PMP300 (or portable CDDA/MP3 player) as a load device.
That would be "interesting"!
Joe
-ethan
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1:30 p.m.
New subject: COSMAC VIP documentation (was Re: Need help finding old IBM PC game)
Joe wrote:
At 01:47 PM 8/19/02 -0700, you wrote:
I got this VIP for substantially less than that at a recent hamfest. Mike Haas and I
had both been over this guys stuff at least three times then I decided to go through the
stuff one more time while Mike went and got the car. That's when I found the VIP.
Needless to say, Mike was quite upset! It's amazing how many times you can look
through the same stuff and still find something that you previously overlooked.
It would probably work. I have a few KIM-1 cassette
programs
(most at 3x normal speed) posted as WAVs at
http://www.learnmicros.com. (And a few songs that KIM sings
too,
also as WAVs.) :)
This seems to be 100% reliable once you get the levels
right.
As an aside, none of those recordings came from a recorder,
but
directly from a "C" program which generated the WAV samples.
Probably the worst case would be you'd need an RC low-pass
filter between the playback device and your cassette input,
to simulate the low-pass characteristics of a voice-grade
tape recorder.
Undoubtedly, you'd have to experiment with the sample rate
and stuff. I found 16 Khz mono with 8 bit samples works
fine
for KIM at 3x speed (half-hypertape.) I couldn't figure out
how to generate half a wave in my "C" program, so I stopped
at 3 x normal speed. Hypertape's still da fastest for KIM.
:)
-- Ross
-- Ross
--- Joe <rigdonj(a)cfl.rr.com> wrote:
The VIPER news-letters are really great. There's loads of good info in them. Mike
has PILES of RCA docs for the Cosmac, ELF, VIP and other 1802 stuff.
At 10:36 AM 8/19/02 -0700, you wrote:
Good for you.
--- Joe <rigdonj(a)cfl.rr.com> wrote:
> I was in a surplus store today and...
>... did find a 6 inch high stack of manuals for the RCA Cosmac VIP
> :-) :-) :-) :-)
Did you get them?
You bet! If so, what part numbers?
http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dllViewSellersOtherItems&userid=r…
No one seemed interested so I put them on E-bay.
If you're interested in
the VIP or ELFs then take a good look at them, there's LOTS of good info
in them.
Looks like I have originals for all of the photocopied data sheets
and RCA manuals you have (and possibly one or two you don't), but I
do not have any issues of VIPER. I have a VIP too (altough Mike has it at the
moment). I bought at a
hamfest earlier this year. I bought the manuals from the same people
except they were at their store. 99% chance that these manuals went with
that same VIP.
I got my VIP about 16 years ago for $35 at Dayton (same year I got
an ASR-33 w/110 baud data set for $20). What manuals I have, came
from the local RCA distributor for cover price ($5) or free.
Somewhere, I have a cassette of CHIP-8 and most of the CHIP-8 games
from the VIP manuals - I typed it all in and saved it to tape myself.
One of my ultra-low priority projects is to locate the tape, slurp
it into a modern machine and cut MP3s of the programs and see if I
can use my Rio PMP300 (or portable CDDA/MP3 player) as a load device.
That would be "interesting"!
Joe
>
>-ethan
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
>http://www.hotjobs.com
>
6:59 p.m.
New subject: Digitizing ancient cassette data (was Re: COSMAC VIP documentation)
--- Joe <rigdonj(a)cfl.rr.com> wrote:
I wrote:
I may have found the tape. I _did_ find the paper index. It lists the
CHIP-8 interpreter and six programs: Space Intercept, Spooky Shot,
Shooting Stars, Drawing Tablet, Hex Reflex and Amazing.
I would play with it tonight, but the felt pad has fallen off the metal
leaf spring behind the tape, and the first few inches got wrinkled in my
player when I tried to listen to it.
The data is not sacred; I have the hardware and the manuals and I can
recreate the tape from absolute scratch, but I remember it took hours
and hours to successfully enter and verify CHIP-8 itself (the programs
are tiny by comparison). I'd rather not duplicate that effort, but if
I have to, I suppose I could.
Worst case, I'll have to type stuff in, then "save" through a PeeCee
sound card. I am a little concerned about mains noise, so I'm
considering building a 1A +5VDC battery-operated supply (trivial)
or recording to a laptop.
-ethan
__________________________________________________
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Somewhere, I
have a cassette of CHIP-8 and most of the CHIP-8 games
from the VIP manuals...
That would be "interesting"! 
20 Aug
20 Aug
9:51 a.m.
New subject: Digitizing ancient cassette data (was Re: COSMAC VIP documentation)
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5:56 p.m.
New subject: Digitizing ancient cassette data (was Re: COSMAC VIP documentation)
--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
I am not certain if the VIP uses a header or not, but given how simple
the monitor is, and the fact that unlike, say, the PET, there is no
file name (and no redundant copy), I would expect that the first file
on the tape is completely hosed.
I wasn't figuring on relying on stretchable analog technology. I _could_
cut a new tape, but I hadn't planned on it.
-ethan
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I may have
found the tape... I would play with it tonight, but the felt
pad has fallen off the
metal leaf spring behind the tape, and the first
few inches got wrinkled in my player when I tried to listen to it.
If you could repair the felt pad, would you be able to make any use of
the data on the tape? I have repaired cassette pressure pads in the past. If
you can find
another cassette of the same brand with a good pad then you can often
open up the cassette housing (all decent compact cassettes are assembled
with screws!) and swap over the leaf spring/pad assembly.
If it had screws, I'd have done that already. I used to go through a lot
of tapes and I was in grade school/high-school when I was using them,
so many of my tapes are high quality, but most are not. I did use the
expensive Memorex screw-type for really important stuff. I also tended
to not write just to the front of the tape (and wear it out).
With this exception of this one VIP tape and a few DEC TA60s, all of
my cassettes are Commodore. I'd estimate 3% C-64, 1% VIC-20, and the
rest, 40-col BASIC 2 PET. I've already slurped up all the ones that
are not in "Rabbit" format. As soon as I decide how to restore my
original 32K PET (intermittent keyboard problems - it's already the
second PCB. I have at least one NOS keyboard sans cable; the question
is do I move the cable or build a new one from scratch), I will be
slurping up the handful of Rabbit tapes. I have the Rabbit software
in ROM and on standard C= cassette.
Worst case,
I'll have to type stuff in, then "save" through a PeeCee
sound card. I am a little concerned about mains noise, so I'm
Don't you still have a cassette (or other tape) recorder? Can't you still
get blank tapes? I would want to save it in as many ways possible!
21 Aug
21 Aug
2:30 p.m.
New subject: Digitizing ancient cassette data (was Re: COSMAC VIP documentation)
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2:46 p.m.
New subject: Digitizing ancient cassette data (was Re: COSMAC VIP documentation)
At 12:08 AM 8/22/2002 +0100, Tony Duell wrote:
I'd do both. For some reason I feel that good old
analogue tape is going
to be a lot easier to understand in he future than some of these modern
compressed digital formats....
I wouldn't use anything but a straight digitization of the
audio, either, if it was a purely audio recorder. Turning
it to MP3 could yield mush in a spot and you'd never know it.
Many tape readers for PC-level machines were just doing zero-crossing
counting and other simple tricks. MP3 and other codecs are
aimed at making sound that pleases the ear, not other machines.
- John
22 Aug
22 Aug
6:08 a.m.
New subject: Digitizing ancient cassette data (was Re: COSMAC VIP documentation)
Try FLAC lossless encoding at http://flac.sourceforge.com/ It's open source
and available for Window$ and *nix style OSes.
On a straight tone it does about 2:1 compression. Not great, but better than
nothing, and yields an EXACT (to the bit) replica when expanded. Cutting out
noise should yield better compression ratios, use a good quality tape deck
and audio digitizer. An external USB/IEEE1394 digitizer would be ideal,
cutting out internal computer EMI/RFI noise. Also, to save space, figure out
what frequency the tones are encoded at and adjust the sampling rate
accordingly (If it uses 2KHz tones, you only need a 4KHz sampling rate, and
can get away with an 8KHz sampling rate for recording) You can pass it
through a brickwall filter to clean out all the junk/noise above your
frequency if you have a nice enough audio processor. Sox might do it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Foust" <jfoust(a)threedee.com>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: Digitizing ancient cassette data (was Re: COSMAC VIP
documentation)
At 12:08 AM 8/22/2002 +0100, Tony Duell wrote:
I'd do both. For some reason I feel that good
old analogue tape is going
to be a lot easier to understand in he future than some of these modern
compressed digital formats....
I wouldn't use anything but a straight digitization of the
audio, either, if it was a purely audio recorder. Turning
it to MP3 could yield mush in a spot and you'd never know it.
Many tape readers for PC-level machines were just doing zero-crossing
counting and other simple tricks. MP3 and other codecs are
aimed at making sound that pleases the ear, not other machines.
- John
4:50 a.m.
New subject: Digitizing ancient cassette data (was Re: COSMAC VIP documentation)
--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
The amount of time it would take to reverse-engineer the tape loading
subroutines and hack it up would be substantially longer than typing
in a few kbytes into a hex keypad.
If I had a box of tapes in this state, it might be worth it. I do not. If
I did not have the original listings to retype from, it also might be
worth it, but I do.
I'm surprised to learn of a tool, but yes, I have done it also. I have
a collection of Doctor Demento tapes I made between 1978 and 1982 and
on many of them, the adhesive that binds the clear leader to the beginning
of the audio tape has failed. Before I discovered a workaround (there's
enough adhesion to handle manual manipulation, but not the shock
of mechanical rewind nor the pressure of the pinch roller) I had a
few tapes detach the leader from the audio tape.
I am not
certain if the VIP uses a header or not, but given how simple
the monitor is, and the fact that unlike, say, the PET, there is no
file name (and no redundant copy), I would expect that the first file
on the tape is completely hosed.
Can you not hack it so that it will read all it can of the file (say by
ignoring checksums, at least on the first block, or something). Then you
can move the data around in memory, and type in the missing bytes. It
will be a lot less work than retyping the whole file (and less prone to
errors!). > I have
repaired cassette pressure pads in the past...
If it had screws, I'd have done that
already...
You cna open up welded cassettes too... There used to be a tool sold in
the UK for doing this (amazingly), but a knife, small screwdriver and
pliers will generally do it. However I learnt _very_ early on to only buy screwed
cassettes unless
there was a very good reason not to
I was 13 the last time I bought any quantity of audio cassettes. I
switched to floppies by 15 (and I _still_ have "disk 1" - BASF 5.25"
formatted for a 1541)
I'd do both. For some reason I feel that good old
analogue tape is going
to be a lot easier to understand in he future than some of these modern
compressed digital formats....
True. But paper listings are the most durable of all. In the distant
future, we'll still have eyes and fingers even if we migrate away from
pushing electrons through semiconductors for fun/profit.
-ethan
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6:57 a.m.
New subject: Digitizing ancient cassette data (was Re: COSMAC VIP documentation)
Ethan Dicks wrote:
True. But paper listings are the most durable of all. In the distant
future, we'll still have eyes and fingers even if we migrate away from
pushing electrons through semiconductors for fun/profit.
Hmm computers using the
ever popular 12AX7. :)
8:52 a.m.
New subject: Digitizing ancient cassette data (was Re: COSMAC VIP documentation)
Ben Franchuk wrote:
Ethan Dicks wrote:
How about barcodes on microfiche? The first page would be an indesx of
what the rest of the codes are for, or how the encoding is done.
True. But paper listings are the most durable of all. In the distant
future, we'll still have eyes and fingers even if we migrate away from
pushing electrons through semiconductors for fun/profit.
Hmm computers using the ever popular 12AX7. :)
11:49 a.m.
New subject: Digitizing ancient cassette data (was Re: COSMAC VIP documentation)
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1:11 p.m.
New subject: Digitizing ancient cassette data (was Re: COSMAC VIP documentation)
At 09:28 PM 8/22/2002 +0100, Tony Duell wrote:
I've just spent a few days attempting to read some
old HP41 barcode
programs from the UK HP club journal. Suffice it to say that poor
printing and/or badly produced barcode in the first place can make life
very tedious.
While it's doubtlessly possible to recover marginal barcode, it's not
totally trivial.
I wonder if someone has produced a software program to read the
barcodes embedded within text, as part of a larger OCR program.
- John
5:55 p.m.
New subject: Digitizing ancient cassette data (was Re: COSMAC VIP documentation)
In message <5.0.0.25.0.20020822170629.02548000@pc>, John Foust writes:
At 09:28 PM 8/22/2002 +0100, Tony Duell wrote:
I'm not sure about end-user packages, but I work with some
OCR libraries that do barcode decoding as well. For that
matter, I've written a Code128 decoder at work. Once you
know how wide the spaces and bars are, the decoding is
pretty easy. Determining those widths turns out to be
trickier than you'd expect.
Brian L. Stuart
I've just spent a few days attempting to read
some old HP41 barcode
programs from the UK HP club journal. Suffice it to say that poor
printing and/or badly produced barcode in the first place can make life
very tedious.
While it's doubtlessly possible to recover marginal barcode, it's not
totally trivial.
I wonder if someone has produced a software program to read the
barcodes embedded within text, as part of a larger OCR program.
11:49 a.m.
New subject: Digitizing ancient cassette data (was Re: COSMAC VIP documentation)
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19 Aug
19 Aug
2:21 p.m.
New subject: COSMAC VIP documentation (was Re: Need help finding old IBM PC game)
On Mon, 19 Aug 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Somewhere, I have a cassette of CHIP-8 and most of the
CHIP-8 games
from the VIP manuals - I typed it all in and saved it to tape myself.
One of my ultra-low priority projects is to locate the tape, slurp
it into a modern machine and cut MP3s of the programs and see if I
can use my Rio PMP300 (or portable CDDA/MP3 player) as a load device.
MP3 won't work. I've tried it. Also, I've been told it won't by people
who know better than me that it is too lossy.
Use a straight WAV file recording instead.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
6:46 p.m.
New subject: COSMAC VIP documentation (was Re: Need help finding old IBM PC game)
--- Sellam Ismail <foo(a)siconic.com> wrote:
On Mon, 19 Aug 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Have you tried monsterously large bitrates? I have no personal
experience with it, but I can see your point about lossiness.
I'm just curious if it's possible no matter what the file size.
One of my ultra-low priority projects is to
locate the tape, slurp
it into a modern machine and cut MP3s of the programs and see if I
can use my Rio PMP300 (or portable CDDA/MP3 player) as a load device.
MP3 won't work. I've tried it. Also, I've been told it won't by people
who know better than me that it is too lossy. Use a straight WAV file recording instead.
My fallback is 44100 KHz audio files and a portable CD player.
-ethan
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8077
days inactive
8084
days old
23 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
archer＠topnow.com -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
blstuart＠bellsouth.net -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
erd_6502＠yahoo.com -
foo＠siconic.com -
jamesl＠bestweb.net -
jbmcb＠hotmail.com -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com -
vcf＠siconic.com