4 Jan
2006
4 Jan
'06
6:31 a.m.
This fellow has some interesting projects. A 6502 opcode compatible
CPU implemented in latches and EEPROMs. A NAND-gate based MC14500B.
And a CPU using (mostly) only transistors. Also a introduction to
microprogramming article, and some other good stuff.
<URL: http://people.freenet.de/dieter.02/index.htm >
I don't know if anyone else mentioned this page in the past. I
don't recall it, and I tend to follow the homebuilt CPU threads here.
If you've seen it already, sorry about that.
--jc
4 Jan
4 Jan
10:15 a.m.
What qualifies a CPU as "homebuilt"? Would an FPGA implementation qualify
as one? If not, why not? If FPGA is disqualifed, how about CPLD/GAL/PAL?
I'm just trying to understand the rules of this thing.
Cheers,
Chuck
10:38 a.m.
Dunno. Maybe homebuilt means either an original design, or an
original reimplementation of an existing technology. That allows for
FPGAs, CPLD/GAL/PAL, discrete logic, transistors, etc.
--jc
Chuck Guzis wrote:
What qualifies a CPU as "homebuilt"? Would
an FPGA implementation qualify
as one? If not, why not? If FPGA is disqualifed, how about CPLD/GAL/PAL?
I'm just trying to understand the rules of this thing.
Cheers,
Chuck
11:53 a.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
What qualifies a CPU as "homebuilt"? Would
an FPGA implementation qualify
as one? If not, why not? If FPGA is disqualifed, how about CPLD/GAL/PAL?
I'm just trying to understand the rules of this thing.
You need to start with a pile of sand, a barrel of oil, some meteorites,
and assorted small plants and animals. The barrel of oil is sometimes
considered cheating, as you can generate that through squeezing the
small animals.
noon
Kevin Handy wrote:
Chuck Guzis wrote:
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Peace... Sridhar
What qualifies a CPU as "homebuilt"?
Would an FPGA implementation
qualify
as one? If not, why not? If FPGA is disqualifed, how about
CPLD/GAL/PAL?
I'm just trying to understand the rules of this thing.
You need to start with a pile of sand, a barrel of oil, some meteorites,
and assorted small plants and animals. The barrel of oil is sometimes
considered cheating, as you can generate that through squeezing the
small animals. 
12:10 p.m.
Kevin Handy wrote:
You need to start with a pile of sand, a barrel of
oil, some meteorites,
and assorted small plants and animals. The barrel of oil is sometimes
considered cheating, as you can generate that through squeezing the
small animals.
So what pot of primeval soup did you evolve from? :)
12:19 p.m.
woodelf wrote:
Kevin Handy wrote:
MMMmmmMMMmmmMMM. Primeval soup. *drools*
Peace... Sridhar
You need to start with a pile of sand, a barrel
of oil, some meteorites,
and assorted small plants and animals. The barrel of oil is sometimes
considered cheating, as you can generate that through squeezing the
small animals.
So what pot of primeval soup did you evolve from? :) 
5:10 p.m.
What qualifies a CPU as "homebuilt"? Would an FPGA implementation qualify
as one? If not, why not? If FPGA is disqualifed, how about CPLD/GAL/PAL?
I'm just trying to understand the rules of this thing.
I am not sure there are any 'rules' but I would claim a homebuilt CPU
implies
1) You had to do some soldering/wirewrapping
2) You didn't use a chip normally classed as a microprocessor _in the
conventional way_. I have actually considered using a micro, say a Z80,
to sequence through a ROM which is, say, 32 bits wide. 8 of those bits
got to the Z80 data lines, the ROM contains mostly NOPs, with some
JPs/JRs, and the odd IN instruction to read lines from my homebrew data
path and control conditional jumps to go to theright routine in the ROM
.The other 24 btis from the ROM control my data path, of course.
While that would use a microprocessor, I would still class the overall
circuit as a homebuilt CPU
3) You get to define the instruction set (wether by hardwiring,
microcode, whatever).
By my definition, FPGAs, PALs, GALs, CPLDs, gate+flip-flops, transistors,
valves, relays, are all fine.
-tony
6:10 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
I am not sure there are any 'rules' but I would
claim a homebuilt CPU
implies
By my definition, FPGAs, PALs, GALs, CPLDs, gate+flip-flops, transistors,
valves, relays, are all fine.
Next topic --- Organic computer systems used to improve or change
biological things -- the next
step after silicon computers? Do you need to lose weight ... let our
patent pending program
change the unwanted fat cells in your body to something more usefull
like brain cells and have a free extra
brain. Would you like 3 extra arms, fur or a tail for next year's
hallween party.
Jurrasic park at home ... amuse your freinds ... get rid of unwanted
guests ... have the biggest pet on the block.
---
Note It might be wise to backup your DNA first, and not on a floppy.
7:08 p.m.
On 1/4/2006 at 9:52 PM shoppa_classiccmp at trailing-edge.com wrote:
Cryotron logic!
Microwave logic?
Cheers,
Chuck
9:26 p.m.
On Wednesday 04 January 2006 10:08 pm, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 1/4/2006 at 9:52 PM shoppa_classiccmp at
trailing-edge.com wrote:
Getting positively photonic, are we?
Neutrino logic?
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
Cryotron logic!
Microwave logic?
9:57 p.m.
Roy J. Tellason wrote:
On Wednesday 04 January 2006 10:08 pm, Chuck Guzis
wrote:
Neutrino's may not exist. http://www.autodynamics.org/main/
I also can't say much for quantum computing .
Ben alias woodelf
On 1/4/2006 at 9:52 PM shoppa_classiccmp at
trailing-edge.com wrote:
Getting positively photonic, are we?
Neutrino logic?
Cryotron logic!
Microwave logic?
10:26 p.m.
On 1/5/2006 at 12:26 AM Roy J. Tellason wrote:
Getting positively photonic, are we?
It's the real thing, using stripline techniques. I found a recent
reference:
http://eetimes.com/news/98/1021news/cooper_union.html
It's touted as something new, but I can recall reading about this in the
60s.
Cheers,
Chuck
6 Jan
6 Jan
11:59 a.m.
On Thu, 2006-01-05 at 00:26 -0500, Roy J. Tellason wrote:
On Wednesday 04 January 2006 10:08 pm, Chuck Guzis
wrote:
One thing I've always wanted to build is a binary marble CPU.
Of course it would need some system of getting the marbles back upwards,
some electrical system or something. But I do believe it would make for
an awesome sight.
-toresbe :)
On 1/4/2006 at 9:52 PM shoppa_classiccmp at
trailing-edge.com wrote:
Getting positively photonic, are we?
Neutrino logic? Cryotron logic!
Microwave logic?
4 Jan
4 Jan
7:13 p.m.
Tim Shoppa wrote:
Cryotron logic!
That is super-conductor logic right? That was to take place of
core-memory.
Fluid logic is another odd logic. Von-Neuman's Cellular logic needs to
wait for
atomic scaled machines.
Ben alias Woodelf.
PS. Move machines are neat, but not practical --
http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/arch/risc/
5 Jan
5 Jan
12:13 a.m.
Move machines are pretty neat! And they can be practical. In fact Maxim
has a new
microcontroller line that is a move machine:
http://www.maxim-ic.com/products/microcontrollers/maxq
I also choose to use the Move architecture for my relay computer!
-James Nugen
On 1/4/06, woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> wrote:
PS. Move machines are neat, but not practical --
http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/arch/risc/
12:15 p.m.
James Nugen wrote:
Move machines are pretty neat! And they can be
practical. In fact Maxim
has a new
microcontroller line that is a move machine:
http://www.maxim-ic.com/products/microcontrollers/maxq
That looks very complex... They call it a Risc machine.
I also choose to use the Move architecture for my relay
computer!
I like the idea of a I - indirect bit.
Anybody have a nice 3 address computer instruction set aound other
than xproz ? http://www.ee.washington.edu/circuit_archive/models/xilinxcpu/
4 Jan
4 Jan
8:14 p.m.
On Wed, 4 Jan 2006, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 1/5/2006 at 1:10 AM ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk
wrote:
EL-PC logic?
(ElectroLuminescent-PhotoConductor)
Neon bulb logic?
Tunnel Diode logic?
PLO logic?
(Parametric phase-Locked Oscillator - Parametrons are one variety)
Peter Wallace
By my definition, FPGAs, PALs, GALs, CPLDs,
gate+flip-flops, transistors,
valves, relays, are all fine.
Magnetic core logic?
Cheers,
Chuck
10:22 p.m.
On 1/4/2006 at 8:14 PM Peter C. Wallace wrote:
Neon bulb logic?
Kind of neat in that the logic state is visible. Hard to use for anything
more than simple circuits--aging and uniformity are real problems. I built
a couple of ring counters using them though.
Why not Shockley diodes? Anyone remember the Shockley demo of a diode-only
audio amplifier back in the 60's?
Tunnel Diode logic?
Still got about a dozen of those things in my hellbox.
Cheers,
Chuck
11:17 p.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
Kind of neat in that the logic state is visible. Hard
to use for anything
more than simple circuits--aging and uniformity are real problems. I built
a couple of ring counters using them though.
Why not Shockley diodes? Anyone remember the Shockley demo of a diode-only
audio amplifier back in the 60's?
I found one online reference but no schematic. :(
5 Jan
5 Jan
7:17 a.m.
On Wed, 4 Jan 2006, Chuck Guzis wrote:
Hard to beat if you need a really fast (but low amplitude) edge
On 1/4/2006 at 8:14 PM Peter C. Wallace wrote:
Isnt that just a four layer diode? voltage mode negative resistance?
Just build it in GaP and you'll have a solid state 'Neon' :-)
Neon bulb logic?
Kind of neat in that the logic state is visible. Hard to use for anything
more than simple circuits--aging and uniformity are real problems. I built
a couple of ring counters using them though.
Why not Shockley diodes? Anyone remember the Shockley demo of a diode-only
audio amplifier back in the 60's? Tunnel Diode logic?
Still got about a dozen of those things in my hellbox.
Cheers,
Chuck
Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics
10:19 a.m.
On 1/5/2006 at 7:17 AM Peter C. Wallace wrote:
Isnt that just a four layer diode? voltage mode
negative resistance?
Just build it in GaP and you'll have a solid state 'Neon' :-)
Hmmm, you may be onto something. Let's see, where did I put my bar of
gallium and tank of phosphine? :)
There's a guy who has a web site that describes building point-contact
negative resistance 2-terminal devices out of galvanized steel. He can get
them to oscillate.
Hard to beat if you need a really fast (but low
amplitude) edge
They make good broadband RF "sniffers" too.
Cheers,
Chuck
11:26 a.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
You have a bar of Gallium? Wouldn't it slowly turn into a blob on hot days?
Peace... Sridhar
Isnt that just
a four layer diode? voltage mode negative resistance?
Just build it in GaP and you'll have a solid state 'Neon' :-)
Hmmm, you may be onto something. Let's see, where did I put my bar of
gallium and tank of phosphine? :) 
1:05 a.m.
"Peter C. Wallace" wrote:
Neon bulb logic?
(... there was a long thread here about this a few months back.)
Tunnel Diode logic?
Ran into these recently in a Systron-Donner frequency counter from the 60s,
formed into a ring counter for the high-speed counting stage (first decade)
where 'high-speed' == all of 50MHz.
11:55 a.m.
On 1/5/2006 at 1:10 AM ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk wrote:
Yes, and pulleys+string, hydraulics, whatever..... I was giving
examples, not an exhaustive list.
-tony
By my definition, FPGAs, PALs, GALs, CPLDs,
gate+flip-flops, transistors,
valves, relays, are all fine.
Magnetic core logic?
4 Jan
4 Jan
10:16 a.m.
J.C. Wren wrote:
This fellow has some interesting projects. A 6502
opcode
compatible CPU implemented in latches and EEPROMs. A NAND-gate based
MC14500B. And a CPU using (mostly) only transistors. Also a
introduction to microprogramming article, and some other good stuff.
<URL: http://people.freenet.de/dieter.02/index.htm >
I don't know if anyone else mentioned this page in the past. I
don't recall it, and I tend to follow the homebuilt CPU threads here.
If you've seen it already, sorry about that.
Well don't forget that "Homebuilt CPUs WebRing" covers almost all the
home brew CPU's I have seen.
For FPGA designs see: http://www.fpgacpu.org/links.html
The odd thing about FPGA designs is that several are 6502's or 6809's
emulation.
--jc
.
10:29 a.m.
woodelf wrote:
Well don't forget that "Homebuilt CPUs
WebRing" covers almost all the
home brew CPU's I have seen.
For FPGA designs see: http://www.fpgacpu.org/links.html
The odd thing about FPGA designs is that several are 6502's or 6809's
emulation.
Probably because not everybody likes to build not only a CPU but also
compiler and OS. Taking somekind of a CPU which has already OS support
is easier for the software side of things. Not saying it is easier for
the hardware, as is is much bigger/complex as the pure "made for FPGA" CPUs.
2:54 p.m.
On Wednesday 04 January 2006 09:31 am, J.C. Wren wrote:
This fellow has some interesting projects. A 6502
opcode compatible
CPU implemented in latches and EEPROMs. A NAND-gate based MC14500B.
And a CPU using (mostly) only transistors. Also a introduction to
microprogramming article, and some other good stuff.
<URL: http://people.freenet.de/dieter.02/index.htm >
I don't know if anyone else mentioned this page in the past. I
don't recall it, and I tend to follow the homebuilt CPU threads here.
If you've seen it already, sorry about that.
I wonder how fast you could get one of those to go...?
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
5 Jan
5 Jan
7:24 a.m.
New subject: Raritan APSSUN key map
Does anyone here have a list of the key mapping for Sun keys to PS/2
keys for the APSSUN converter?
Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
5:50 p.m.
New subject: Raritan APSSUN key map
Mike Loewen wrote:
Does anyone here have a list of the key mapping for Sun keys to PS/2
keys for the APSSUN converter?
Pause/Break + A - STOP
Again - F2
Props - F3
Undo - F4
Front - F5
Copy - F6
Open - F7
Paste - F8
Find - F9
Cut - F10
Help - F11
Mute - F12
Compose - * (keypad)
Vol + - + (keypad)
Vol - - - (keypad)
Combo keys are Scroll Lock or Ctrl+Alt.
eg. Scroll Lock + F7 = Open.
g.
--
"I'm not crazy, I'm plausibly off-nominal!"
Proud owner of 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
6926
days inactive
6928
days old
32 comments
15 participants
participants (15)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
cclist＠sydex.com -
emu＠ecubics.com -
geneb＠deltasoft.com -
hilpert＠cs.ubc.ca -
jcwren＠jcwren.com -
jnugen＠gmail.com -
kth＠srv.net -
mloewen＠cpumagic.scol.pa.us -
pcw＠mesanet.com -
ploopster＠gmail.com -
rtellason＠blazenet.net -
shoppa_classiccmp＠trailing-edge.com -
toresbe＠ifi.uio.no