23 Dec
2001
23 Dec
'01
1:34 p.m.
I'd like to create some archives of system diskettes for older machines,
cp/m machines that use 5 1/4" 96 tpi double sided diskettes and 8"
diskettes.
What is a good way to do that? I've looked into Teledisk but that
assumes that you can read the actual diskettes on a PC which I can't.
Any suggestions?
Thanks.
--
Dave Mabry dmabry(a)mich.com
Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team
NACD #2093
23 Dec
23 Dec
4:28 p.m.
The 8" disks might be a problem. I've never tried to hook 8" disks up to a
PC... not even an older one. However, teledisk works great with CP/M stuff
but like you said, you do need to have the same size floppy drives hooked to
your PC if you want the process to run smoothly. I think that teledisk
doesn't care about the read so much as the write back. I've made disk images
of many CP/M disks, and old software on 360K 5.25" disks in general, and I
never had problems with recreating the bootable disks as long as I use the
same size drives to read and write to. If you don't have an extra drive of
the size that you need (5.25" of some size,) it's worth hunting one down for
things like this.
I personally use an Amstrad 1512 to create my 360k disk images usually, and
then transfer them via laplink to my PC.
It might be possible to hook up the 8" drives to a PC but choose the 1.2 meg
5.25" option in bios but I don't know. It probably wouldn't work but
I'll
let someone else confirm that.
Once you have the disk images, you can burn them to a cd, and recreate them
at will.
E.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dave Mabry
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 4:35 PM
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Good way to archive system disks
I'd like to create some archives of system diskettes for older machines,
cp/m machines that use 5 1/4" 96 tpi double sided diskettes and 8"
diskettes.
What is a good way to do that? I've looked into Teledisk but that
assumes that you can read the actual diskettes on a PC which I can't.
Any suggestions?
Thanks.
--
Dave Mabry dmabry(a)mich.com
Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team
NACD #2093
5:05 p.m.
It might be possible to hook up the 8" drives to
a PC but choose the 1.2 meg
5.25" option in bios but I don't know. It probably wouldn't work but
I'll
let someone else confirm that.
It works. just a matter of cabling, as the 1.2M is virtually
indistinguishable from 8". But cable it as drive B:, because some BIOS's
will have a problem with it not having a 360K mode.
And 5.25" 720K and 3.5" 720K are direct replacements for each other.
6:29 p.m.
I think I've still got a problem doing this, though. The 5 1/4 inch
diskettes that I want to image are 96 tpi and standard PC diskette
drives are 48 tpi. Although the 1.2M AT-style ones were 96 tpi. Not
sure if I can make one of them work. That might be worth a try.
Another obstacle is that 440BX chipsets only control one floppy drive.
I don't have an older PC that can control two floppy drives. Am I
missing something here?
The 8 inch diskettes are Intel's somewhat unique M2FM, not the more
standard MFM. So I doubt that there is any diskette controller for the
PC that would read them.
What I was hoping for was a program that would run under CP/M on the
target machine that would allow me to make an image file of a diskette
on that machine. Then I could transfer that image file over to a PC and
put it on a CD. Thinking about it, though, I might end up with a catch
22. In order to make a diskette from one of those images would require
a running CP/M machine.
Are you saying below that a 96 tpi 5 1/4 inch diskette drive can plug
into a PC and be detected as a 720K 3.5 inch drive?
More for me to think about. Thanks.
"Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote:
--
Dave Mabry dmabry(a)mich.com
Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team
NACD #2093
It might be possible to hook up the 8"
drives to a PC but choose the 1.2 meg
5.25" option in bios but I don't know. It probably wouldn't work but
I'll
let someone else confirm that.
It works. just a matter of cabling, as the 1.2M is virtually
indistinguishable from 8". But cable it as drive B:, because some BIOS's
will have a problem with it not having a 360K mode.
And 5.25" 720K and 3.5" 720K are direct replacements for each other. 
7:18 p.m.
Dave Mabry wrote:
I think I've still got a problem doing this, though. The 5 1/4 inch
diskettes that I want to image are 96 tpi and standard PC diskette
drives are 48 tpi. Although the 1.2M AT-style ones were 96 tpi. Not
sure if I can make one of them work. That might be worth a try.
Another obstacle is that 440BX chipsets only control one floppy drive.
I don't have an older PC that can control two floppy drives. Am I
missing something here?
The 8 inch diskettes are Intel's somewhat unique M2FM, not the more
standard MFM. So I doubt that there is any diskette controller for the
PC that would read them.
What I was hoping for was a program that would run under CP/M on the
target machine that would allow me to make an image file of a diskette
on that machine. Then I could transfer that image file over to a PC and
put it on a CD. Thinking about it, though, I might end up with a catch
22. In order to make a diskette from one of those images would require
a running CP/M machine.
Are you saying below that a 96 tpi 5 1/4 inch diskette drive can plug
into a PC and be detected as a 720K 3.5 inch drive?
More for me to think about. Thanks.
"Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote:
--
Dave Mabry dmabry(a)mich.com
Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team
NACD #2093
Check out CatWeasel on the web , they may be able to read the format.
While they has a PC card the Amiga (sp?) is better supported.
--
Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's --
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html
It might be possible to hook up the 8"
drives to a PC but choose the 1.2 meg
5.25" option in bios but I don't know. It probably wouldn't work but
I'll
let someone else confirm that.
It works. just a matter of cabling, as the 1.2M is virtually
indistinguishable from 8". But cable it as drive B:, because some BIOS's
will have a problem with it not having a 360K mode.
And 5.25" 720K and 3.5" 720K are direct replacements for each other.
24 Dec
24 Dec
7:12 a.m.
On Sun, 23 Dec 2001, Ben Franchuk wrote:
Check out CatWeasel on the web , they may be able to
read the format.
While they has a PC card the Amiga (sp?) is better supported.
It COULD do it.
IF you have appropriate software.
Has ANYONE ever actually SEEN any software for it?
7:09 a.m.
On Mon, 24 Dec 2001, Dave Mabry wrote:
I think I've still got a problem doing this,
though. The 5 1/4 inch
diskettes that I want to image are 96 tpi and standard PC diskette
drives are 48 tpi. Although the 1.2M AT-style ones were 96 tpi. Not
sure if I can make one of them work. That might be worth a try.
It is POSSIBLE to read 720K 5.25" using a 1.2M drive. But there can be
complications, particularly with overly "smart" inflexible Wintel style
BIOS's.
But a 720K 5.25" drive will work nicely on most machines; the computer
will think that it is a 720K 3.5".
Another obstacle is that 440BX chipsets only control
one floppy drive.
I don't have an older PC that can control two floppy drives. Am I
missing something here?
You would be missing the joys of using a classic computer.
Get something a little older, such as a 5150 for the 720Ks, and life is so
much nicer.
The 8 inch diskettes are Intel's somewhat unique
M2FM, not the more
standard MFM. So I doubt that there is any diskette controller for the
PC that would read them.
True.
But, ... in theory, ... perhaps, ...
The Catweasel is theoretically capable, but there isn't appropriate
software available. or
The Central Point Option Board was theoretically capable, but there isn't
appropriate software available, AND programming info is trade
secret, therefore reverse-engineered or stolen.
What I was hoping for was a program that would run
under CP/M on the
target machine that would allow me to make an image file of a diskette
on that machine. Then I could transfer that image file over to a PC and
put it on a CD. Thinking about it, though, I might end up with a catch
22. In order to make a diskette from one of those images would require
a running CP/M machine.
An image file would be easy to do, as a dump of the contents of all
sectors. But that might not include the system tracks, and the recreation
of PHYSICAL format would be a little tougher.
Are you saying below that a 96 tpi 5 1/4 inch diskette
drive can plug
into a PC and be detected as a 720K 3.5 inch drive?
YES.
So long as it's clear that we are talking about a 5.25" 720K drive, such
as Tandon TM100-4, Teac 55F, Shugart/Matsushita 465, etc. Using a 1.2M is
still possible, but might have a few more complications.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
25 Dec
25 Dec
9:50 p.m.
On Mon, 24 Dec 2001, Dave Mabry wrote:
> Another obstacle is that 440BX chipsets only control one floppy drive.
> I don't have an older PC that can control two floppy drives. Am I
> missing something here?
Um, the 440BX can control 2 drives, if your Wintel box won't support 2
floppy drives, then iut's something that your bios manufacturer did that is
peculiar, NOT the chiopset.
23 Dec
23 Dec
5:22 p.m.
New subject: INCREDIBLE Ebay Item (sorta OT)
This might be slightly off topic, but it does involve
a display technology that was used with computers of
the 50's and 60's that I find interesting. This is,
perhaps, the geekiest thing I have ever seen on eBay,
period:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1681232797
For those of you link-challenged, it is a Nixie tube
watch. Yes, you read this correctly, a watch. And its
of "reasonable" size. I had no ides Nixie tubes of
this small size were ever made.
I think this is an truly incredible combination of old
and modern technologies. I myself hope to build a 32
character by 16 line vector alphanumeric display with
D/A converters, a PIC, and a Tektronix 60X series
display, in the vein of pre-raster 1960's computer
terminals.
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8 comments
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participants (6)
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bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
dmabry＠mich.com -
ernestls＠attbi.com -
geoffr＠zipcon.net -
sloboyko＠yahoo.com