16 Oct
2020
16 Oct
'20
11:11 a.m.
From: Chris Zach
Next up is the 11/24, this is one of the 5.25 inch
rack mounts with a
CPU, KT24, and no memory.
First question: Will ODT respond at all with no memory on the Unibus?
My _guess_ is probably, since on other KDF11 CPU's, ODT works with no
memory, but I haven't confirmed that.
My PDP-11/24 chassis (a 5-1/4" BA11-L, like yours) I took apart to get the
backplane out, so I could work out how the busses work (see below), and I'd
need to put it back together before I could try my -12/24.to confirm it. If
you could take some pictures of the insides of your BA11-L, that would be
both a help to the re-assemblhy, and ancentive to do so.
Can a 128kw memory board from an 11/34 work in an
11/24?
Yes and no. See:
https://gunkies.org/wiki/PDP-11/24
for more. Note "The top 256 Kbytes of the CPU's address space were devoted to
the UNIBUS". So an MS11-L or similar UNIBUS memory can probably be
read/written by the CPU, but it won't appear at 0 in the CPU's address space.
Or do I need one of the 11/44 boards to make it go?
Whether a KDF11-U will work with no memory at physical 0 is unknown: it would
need at least a special bootstrap (since most assume working memory at 0) and
a special OS load (ditto).
Also, I seem to recall that on the -11/45, with mapping enabled, interrupt
vectors are in Kernel D space, so once running, that machine could operate
with no working memory at physical 0, but I don't know if KDF11 CPU's use
mapped Kernel space for vectors. If you're interested, I can run an
test on a KDF11-A and see.
Noel
18 Oct
18 Oct
8:59 p.m.
Weird. Set all the switches for the 11/24 CPU and Unibus map, and still
nothing coming out of the serial port. Figured I would document the
settings and see if anyone with an 11/24 can cross-check my settings.
Serial: Because my VT52 has a male RS232 end (factory) and the 11/24 has
a male RS232 end (factory bulkhead) I am using a female-female null
modem cable. This is the same cable I use on the 11/83 CPU and it's
known working (along with the VT52). Is this the right type of cable to use?
Switches on the CPU are:
E135: off,off,off,on,off,off,off,on=9600 baud both signal generators.
E124: off,on,on,off (SLU1 use signal gen 1 for tx and rx)
E124 5-8: off,on,off,off (no idea what these are)
Slots in use are:
1--M7133 CPU
2--M7134 KT24 Memory map
3--M7891 MS11-L memory (configured for extended unibus), green light on,
red light off
4,5,6--G727
7-M7982 TS11 tape controller
8 M8256 RX02 controller
9 M9302 terminator and G7273 board
When powered on in HALT mode the 11/24 CPU board has the third LED on.
Go to RUN stays on. Go to boot, LED goes off. If the unit is turned on
with the switch in RUN, the light is out.
MS11-L has a green light on at all times. When I forgot the 9302 it had
a red light on as well, but plugging that in and restarting cleared the
red light on the memory.
20 Oct
20 Oct
7:02 p.m.
On 10/18/2020 10:59 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
Weird. Set all the switches for the 11/24 CPU and
Unibus map, and still
nothing coming out of the serial port. Figured I would document the
settings and see if anyone with an 11/24 can cross-check my settings.
Serial: Because my VT52 has a male RS232 end (factory) and the 11/24 has
a male RS232 end (factory bulkhead) I am using a female-female null
modem cable. This is the same cable I use on the 11/83 CPU and it's
known working (along with the VT52). Is this the right type of cable to
use?
Yes, I use a null modem cable plugged into the bulkhead connector as well.
Switches on the CPU are:
E135: off,off,off,on,off,off,off,on=9600 baud both signal generators.
Same here from what is scribbled in my book
E124: off,on,on,off (SLU1 use signal gen 1 for tx and
rx)
Same Here
E124 5-8: off,on,off,off (no idea what these are)
I don't know offhand, either, would have to pull the board to check it.
Slots in use are:
1--M7133 CPU
Same on mine in slot 1, of course
2--M7134 KT24 Memory map
Same as mine on slot 2 as well, of course
I have had my system since February, 1988 when a friend and I hauled the
11/24, two RK07's a VT100 and and TU10 out of U Wisconsin Bascom Hall
for about $600. I have added many things to the system over the year,
including a VT11, a DR11C, an Emulex SMD disk controller, etc.
It has had one power supply repair (thanks for advice from, I think,
Tony Duel about not destroying test equipment while troubleshooting) and
early on blown SLU1 dirver/receiver chips which I replaced.
After that, I have:
M7891 UNIBUS Memory (256K, I think, presumably addressed for 0).
G7273 Bus + DMA Grant card
M7860 DR11C
M7846 RX01
M7762 RL11
....
and other stuff
....
Ending with at VT11 containing an M9302 Boot/terminator
SLU1 Interface config, J3
W1 IN (1 stop bit)
W5, W7 OUT (disable parity detection)
W6, W8 OUT (no parity is generated)
E124
1 OFF, 2 ON, 3 ON, 4 OFF
SLU1 and SLU2 both Baud Rate 1
E135
9600 Baud (S1, S2, S3 OFF, S4 ON) (Baud Rate 1)
9600 Baud (S5, S6, S& OFF, S8 ON) (Baud Rate 2)
1 J2 Pin 13 + 18
2 J2 Pin 11 (EM2)
3 J2 Pin 1 (FM2)
4 N/C
5 N/C
6 N/C
7 J2 Pin 20
8 ---- (I wrote this - probably meant N/C)
9 ----
10 ----
11 J2 Pin 12
12 J2 Pin 6
13 thru 19 ----
20 J2 Pin 16
21 - 24 ----
25 J2 Pin 13 + 18
SLU2 Interface config
Originally: Just pin 2 to J2 2+4
Baud Rate 2: W9 OUT, W10 IN, W11 OUT, W12 IN, W4 OUT
To support a TU-58 on SLU2 I added
J4 3-8 J5 2-3
J4 4-7 J5 1-7
CPU Module Jumpers (I believe, but would have to verify)
W2 OUT (power up via location 24, so usually it halts)
W3 IN (allows halt in Kernel mode)
W14 IN (Boot address 165000)
UNIBUS MAP Jumpers
TP11, TP12 presumably OUT(enables diagnostic ROM)
W13 presumably IN (enables diagnostic ROM)
I can't see Switch E58 without pulling the board to see. Same, of
course, with the jumpers. I expect they are factory default.
NOTE: A a test, I swapped in a CPU 23-001C7AA,
Floating Point, 23-002C7AA and Memory Map chip 21-15542-01 from
a PDP-11/23, and they naturally worked fine.
3--M7891 MS11-L memory (configured for extended
unibus), green light on,
red light off
4,5,6--G727
7-M7982 TS11 tape controller
8 M8256 RX02 controller
9 M9302 terminator and G7273 board
When powered on in HALT mode the 11/24 CPU board has the third LED on.
Go to RUN stays on. Go to boot, LED goes off. If the unit is turned on
with the switch in RUN, the light is out.
MS11-L has a green light on at all times. When I forgot the 9302 it had
a red light on as well, but plugging that in and restarting cleared the
red light on the memory.
Let me know if you want me to go thru the process of
1) Powering on my system (been just a bit over a year) to do basic checks
2) Pull the boards and document
3) Put them back and do basic checks again.
JRJ
2)
8:56 p.m.
On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 10:02 PM Jay Jaeger via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I have had my system since February, 1988 when a
friend and I hauled the
11/24, two RK07's a VT100 and and TU10 out of U Wisconsin Bascom Hall
for about $600.
Nice. I didn't end up working for UW-Madison until 2003. I never
encountered any Unibus gear at that late a date, but I did run across
some Qbus cards.
-ethan
21 Oct
21 Oct
8:01 a.m.
Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 10:02 PM Jay Jaeger via
cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Back in '89-91 at UW-Madison,? the main mail server was
vms.macc.wisc.edu .? We at EE had mostly Sun, Apollo (later HP9000/400)?
and Mac II's to play with, but the guys at ChemE had a bunch of vaxen
(mostly Microvax II's); they had DECNet but were also accessible via IP
somehow, at least on some nodes.? Nobody was throwing interesting stuff
to the trash in those days.
Carlos.
I have had my system since February, 1988 when a
friend and I hauled the
11/24, two RK07's a VT100 and and TU10 out of U Wisconsin Bascom Hall
for about $600.
Nice. I didn't end up working for UW-Madison until 2003. I
never
encountered any Unibus gear at that late a date, but I did run across
some Qbus cards.
-ethan
5:11 p.m.
Hm. In 1986 I was given a pair of pdp8/I's, a third 8/I that was broken,
an RK8, and a bunch of packs from UMBC's psychology lab that were in an
old closet. I could not move out the PDP12 that was in there (would
never fit in my station wagon) but I did take out the FPP12 unit.
Ah those were the days. I wonder if the pdp12 is still there sometimes....
C
On 10/21/2020 11:01 AM, Carlos E Murillo-Sanchez via cctalk wrote:
Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 10:02 PM Jay Jaeger via
cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Back in '89-91 at UW-Madison,? the main mail server was
vms.macc.wisc.edu .? We at EE had mostly Sun, Apollo (later HP9000/400)
and Mac II's to play with, but the guys at ChemE had a bunch of vaxen
(mostly Microvax II's); they had DECNet but were also accessible via IP
somehow, at least on some nodes.? Nobody was throwing interesting stuff
to the trash in those days.
Carlos.
I have had my system since February, 1988 when a
friend and I hauled the
11/24, two RK07's a VT100 and? and TU10 out of U Wisconsin Bascom Hall
for about $600.
Nice.? I didn't end up working for UW-Madison until 2003.? I
never
encountered any Unibus gear at that late a date, but I did run across
some Qbus cards.
-ethan
22 Oct
22 Oct
4:21 p.m.
New subject: Next project: 11/24. Does it need memory?--Progress sorta
Interesting. I went up to the attic and opened the Unibus box. I have 3
extra 11/24 boards, and I have *NO* idea why. Oi. So anyway I started
popping them into the 11/24 chassis to see what happens. Run/halt in
halt, looking for anything.
On the first one (old style) same problem: The CPU board does not talk
to the VT52. The second one however brought up ODT with
000000
@
Progress! I immediately stopped and documented the switch settings:
Left switch : 0,0,0,1 0,0,0,1
Right switch: 0,1,0,1 0,1,0,0
All three lights (clock, 1,2) come on. And I can press enter and get @
so it does listen to the console. However if enter 0/ the CPU locks up
and the CPU light goes off. Only way to get back is to power cycle.
Likewise starting with the switch in RUN will do this, as will toggling
it to BOOT.
So it's probably unable to access memory. I did try pulling the unibus
map, then the memory, then everything but the terminator. Same response. Hm.
I could try re-jumpering my memory board to appear as MUD memory and try
it without the KT24 and see if the problem is there. It's possible. If I
did that would I put the memory in slot 2 or leave it in slot 3?
The other two boards failed the same way as the first. One of the boards
is a *new* style one with the ASICs onboard, it has three switch boxes,
is there a manual to describe this one?
I did try to set the switches on the original cpu to match the working
one. The original had
0,0,0,1 0,0,0,1 (same) 0,0,1,0 0,1,0,0
Switching thr right switch to 0,1,0,1 does seem to put garbage on the
VT52, so something might be happening.
I also found a M7850 memory board (1mb, for 11/750, 730, and kind of
11/70) which I am guessing won't work in the EUB. Anyone want to swap it
for a EUB memory board or a 256K working UNIBUS memory board?
CZ
On 10/20/2020 10:02 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote:
On 10/18/2020 10:59 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
Weird. Set all the switches for the 11/24 CPU and
Unibus map, and still
nothing coming out of the serial port. Figured I would document the
settings and see if anyone with an 11/24 can cross-check my settings.
Serial: Because my VT52 has a male RS232 end (factory) and the 11/24 has
a male RS232 end (factory bulkhead) I am using a female-female null
modem cable. This is the same cable I use on the 11/83 CPU and it's
known working (along with the VT52). Is this the right type of cable to
use?
Yes, I use a null modem cable plugged into the bulkhead connector as well.
Switches on the CPU are:
E135: off,off,off,on,off,off,off,on=9600 baud both signal generators.
Same here from what is scribbled in my book
E124: off,on,on,off (SLU1 use signal gen 1 for tx
and rx)
Same Here
E124 5-8: off,on,off,off (no idea what these are)
I don't know offhand, either, would have to pull the board to check it.
Slots in use are:
1--M7133 CPU
Same on mine in slot 1, of course
2--M7134 KT24 Memory map
Same as mine on slot 2 as well, of course
I have had my system since February, 1988 when a friend and I hauled the
11/24, two RK07's a VT100 and and TU10 out of U Wisconsin Bascom Hall
for about $600. I have added many things to the system over the year,
including a VT11, a DR11C, an Emulex SMD disk controller, etc.
It has had one power supply repair (thanks for advice from, I think,
Tony Duel about not destroying test equipment while troubleshooting) and
early on blown SLU1 dirver/receiver chips which I replaced.
After that, I have:
M7891 UNIBUS Memory (256K, I think, presumably addressed for 0).
G7273 Bus + DMA Grant card
M7860 DR11C
M7846 RX01
M7762 RL11
....
and other stuff
....
Ending with at VT11 containing an M9302 Boot/terminator
SLU1 Interface config, J3
W1 IN (1 stop bit)
W5, W7 OUT (disable parity detection)
W6, W8 OUT (no parity is generated)
E124
1 OFF, 2 ON, 3 ON, 4 OFF
SLU1 and SLU2 both Baud Rate 1
E135
9600 Baud (S1, S2, S3 OFF, S4 ON) (Baud Rate 1)
9600 Baud (S5, S6, S& OFF, S8 ON) (Baud Rate 2)
1 J2 Pin 13 + 18
2 J2 Pin 11 (EM2)
3 J2 Pin 1 (FM2)
4 N/C
5 N/C
6 N/C
7 J2 Pin 20
8 ---- (I wrote this - probably meant N/C)
9 ----
10 ----
11 J2 Pin 12
12 J2 Pin 6
13 thru 19 ----
20 J2 Pin 16
21 - 24 ----
25 J2 Pin 13 + 18
SLU2 Interface config
Originally: Just pin 2 to J2 2+4
Baud Rate 2: W9 OUT, W10 IN, W11 OUT, W12 IN, W4 OUT
To support a TU-58 on SLU2 I added
J4 3-8 J5 2-3
J4 4-7 J5 1-7
CPU Module Jumpers (I believe, but would have to verify)
W2 OUT (power up via location 24, so usually it halts)
W3 IN (allows halt in Kernel mode)
W14 IN (Boot address 165000)
UNIBUS MAP Jumpers
TP11, TP12 presumably OUT(enables diagnostic ROM)
W13 presumably IN (enables diagnostic ROM)
I can't see Switch E58 without pulling the board to see. Same, of
course, with the jumpers. I expect they are factory default.
NOTE: A a test, I swapped in a CPU 23-001C7AA,
Floating Point, 23-002C7AA and Memory Map chip 21-15542-01 from
a PDP-11/23, and they naturally worked fine.
3--M7891 MS11-L memory (configured for extended
unibus), green light on,
red light off
4,5,6--G727
7-M7982 TS11 tape controller
8 M8256 RX02 controller
9 M9302 terminator and G7273 board
When powered on in HALT mode the 11/24 CPU board has the third LED on.
Go to RUN stays on. Go to boot, LED goes off. If the unit is turned on
with the switch in RUN, the light is out.
MS11-L has a green light on at all times. When I forgot the 9302 it had
a red light on as well, but plugging that in and restarting cleared the
red light on the memory.
Let me know if you want me to go thru the process of
1) Powering on my system (been just a bit over a year) to do basic checks
2) Pull the boards and document
3) Put them back and do basic checks again.
JRJ
2)
4:51 p.m.
New subject: Next project: 11/24. Does it need memory?--Progress sorta
Hm. Even odder: When I went back to the original CPU board and changed
the switch settings to that of the working board I got garbage on the
VT100. Checking with a PC and PUTTY I see it *is* now working but at
19200 baud even though I have it set to 9600 baud...
Switch packs may be bad among other things. Hm. So the difference was
switching switch pack 2 (the right one) from
0,0,1,0 0,1,0,0
to
0,1,0,1 0,1,0,0
E124 (the switch above) is used to set the baud rate for SLU1 to one of
the two "Baud rates" defined by E135 (the first one, on the left). I'm
guessing there are two baud rates so you can run async baud speeds if
you're truly nuts (or are living in 1980 with modems that ran 110 baud
one way and 1200 baud the other. Kind of like ADSL). Anyway the manual
says for E124 to set the switches as follows:
Transmit: 2 1
Receive : 3 4
Baud rate 1: ON OFF
Baud rate 2: OFF ON
A more confusing truth table cannot be found. Did they misprint this?
Did engineering just hate the documentation team when they laid out the
screening for this board? I don't know, but for whatever reason
(switch 1,2) 0,1 Sets transmit to baud rate 1
(switch 3,4) 0,1 Sets receive to baud rate 2
While my board settings were invalid. Ok, kind of makes sense. However
the fact that I'm running at 19200 means all of E135's switches are
"off" even though switch 4 and 8 are flipped on. Must be dirty switches,
time to get the cleaner out....
Anyway, some progress. Now if I jumper the MS11-L for MUD should I put
it in slot 2 (where the system says "KT24/Mem" but also says it's an EUB
slot) or slot 7 (the first MUD slot)?
Also I am a bit rusty but I assume "SPC" means small peripheral
controller WITHOUT DMA and NPR SPC means the slot can support DMA (non
processor request) or requires a G7270 as opposed to a G727
knucklebuster to pass the DMA request line?
If so that would mean I would have:
CPU
God knows what (G727 or G7270 or nothing?)
G727
G727
G727
G727
MS11-L (first MUD)
RX21 (It's a quad slot SPC with DMA)
930 terminator and G727 (it's the "Unibus" and an SPC without DMA)
What fun!
C
On 10/22/2020 7:21 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
Interesting. I went up to the attic and opened the
Unibus box. I have 3
extra 11/24 boards, and I have *NO* idea why. Oi. So anyway I started
popping them into the 11/24 chassis to see what happens. Run/halt in
halt, looking for anything.
On the first one (old style) same problem: The CPU board does not talk
to the VT52. The second one however brought up ODT with
000000
@
Progress! I immediately stopped and documented the switch settings:
Left switch : 0,0,0,1 0,0,0,1
Right switch: 0,1,0,1 0,1,0,0
All three lights (clock, 1,2) come on. And I can press enter and get @
so it does listen to the console. However if enter 0/ the CPU locks up
and the CPU light goes off. Only way to get back is to power cycle.
Likewise starting with the switch in RUN will do this, as will toggling
it to BOOT.
So it's probably unable to access memory. I did try pulling the unibus
map, then the memory, then everything but the terminator. Same response.
Hm.
I could try re-jumpering my memory board to appear as MUD memory and try
it without the KT24 and see if the problem is there. It's possible. If I
did that would I put the memory in slot 2 or leave it in slot 3?
The other two boards failed the same way as the first. One of the boards
is a *new* style one with the ASICs onboard, it has three switch boxes,
is there a manual to describe this one?
I did try to set the switches on the original cpu to match the working
one. The original had
0,0,0,1 0,0,0,1 (same)?????? 0,0,1,0 0,1,0,0
Switching thr right switch to 0,1,0,1 does seem to put garbage on the
VT52, so something might be happening.
I also found a M7850 memory board (1mb, for 11/750, 730, and kind of
11/70) which I am guessing won't work in the EUB. Anyone want to swap it
for a EUB memory board or a 256K working UNIBUS memory board?
CZ
On 10/20/2020 10:02 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote:
> On 10/18/2020 10:59 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
>> Weird. Set all the switches for the 11/24 CPU and Unibus map, and still
>> nothing coming out of the serial port. Figured I would document the
>> settings and see if anyone with an 11/24 can cross-check my settings.
>>
>> Serial: Because my VT52 has a male RS232 end (factory) and the 11/24 has
>> a male RS232 end (factory bulkhead) I am using a female-female null
>> modem cable. This is the same cable I use on the 11/83 CPU and it's
>> known working (along with the VT52). Is this the right type of cable to
>> use?
>
> Yes, I use a null modem cable plugged into the bulkhead connector as
> well.
>
>>
>> Switches on the CPU are:
>>
>> E135: off,off,off,on,off,off,off,on=9600 baud both signal generators.
>
> Same here from what is scribbled in my book
>
>> E124: off,on,on,off (SLU1 use signal gen 1 for tx and rx)
>
> Same Here
>
>> E124 5-8: off,on,off,off (no idea what these are)
>
> I don't know offhand, either, would have to pull the board to check it.
>
>>
>> Slots in use are:
>> 1--M7133 CPU
>
> Same on mine in slot 1, of course
>
>> 2--M7134 KT24 Memory map
>
> Same as mine on slot 2 as well, of course
>
> I have had my system since February, 1988 when a friend and I hauled the
> 11/24, two RK07's a VT100 and? and TU10 out of U Wisconsin Bascom Hall
> for about $600.? I have added many things to the system over the year,
> including a VT11, a DR11C, an Emulex SMD disk controller, etc.
>
> It has had one power supply repair (thanks for advice from, I think,
> Tony Duel about not destroying test equipment while troubleshooting) and
> early on blown SLU1 dirver/receiver chips which I replaced.
>
> After that, I have:
>
> M7891 UNIBUS Memory (256K, I think, presumably addressed for 0).
> G7273 Bus + DMA Grant card
> M7860 DR11C
> M7846 RX01
> M7762 RL11
> ....
> and other stuff
> ....
> Ending with at VT11 containing an M9302 Boot/terminator
>
> SLU1 Interface config,? J3
>
> W1 IN (1 stop bit)
> W5, W7 OUT (disable parity detection)
> W6, W8 OUT (no parity is generated)
>
> E124
>
> 1 OFF, 2 ON, 3 ON, 4 OFF
> ??? SLU1 and SLU2 both Baud Rate 1
>
>
> E135
>
> 9600 Baud (S1, S2, S3 OFF, S4 ON)? (Baud Rate 1)
> 9600 Baud (S5, S6, S& OFF, S8 ON)? (Baud Rate 2)
>
>
> 1 J2 Pin 13 + 18
> 2 J2 Pin 11 (EM2)
> 3 J2 Pin 1 (FM2)
> 4 N/C
> 5 N/C
> 6 N/C
> 7 J2 Pin 20
> 8 ----? (I wrote this - probably meant N/C)
> 9 ----
> 10 ----
> 11 J2 Pin 12
> 12 J2 Pin 6
> 13 thru 19 ----
> 20 J2 Pin 16
> 21 - 24 ----
> 25 J2 Pin 13 + 18
>
> SLU2 Interface config
>
> Originally:? Just pin 2 to J2 2+4
>
> Baud Rate 2: W9 OUT, W10 IN, W11 OUT, W12 IN, W4 OUT
>
> To support a TU-58 on SLU2 I added
>
> J4 3-8??????? J5 2-3
> J4 4-7??????? J5 1-7
>
>
>
> CPU Module Jumpers (I believe, but would have to verify)
>
> W2 OUT (power up via location 24, so usually it halts)
> W3 IN? (allows halt in Kernel mode)
> W14 IN (Boot address 165000)
>
> UNIBUS MAP Jumpers
>
> TP11, TP12 presumably OUT(enables diagnostic ROM)
> W13 presumably IN (enables diagnostic ROM)
>
> I can't see Switch E58 without pulling the board to see.? Same, of
> course, with the jumpers.? I expect they are factory default.
>
> NOTE: A a test, I swapped in a CPU 23-001C7AA,
> Floating Point, 23-002C7AA and Memory Map chip 21-15542-01 from
> a PDP-11/23, and they naturally worked fine.
>
>
>> 3--M7891 MS11-L memory (configured for extended unibus), green light on,
>> red light off
>> 4,5,6--G727
>> 7-M7982 TS11 tape controller
>> 8 M8256 RX02 controller
>> 9 M9302 terminator and G7273 board
>>
>> When powered on in HALT mode the 11/24 CPU board has the third LED on.
>> Go to RUN stays on. Go to boot, LED goes off. If the unit is turned on
>> with the switch in RUN, the light is out.
>>
>> MS11-L has a green light on at all times. When I forgot the 9302 it had
>> a red light on as well, but plugging that in and restarting cleared the
>> red light on the memory.
>
> Let me know if you want me to go thru the process of
>
> 1) Powering on my system (been just a bit over a year) to do basic checks
>
> 2) Pull the boards and document
>
> 3) Put them back and do basic checks again.
>
> JRJ
> 2)
>
23 Oct
23 Oct
5:07 p.m.
New subject: Next project: 11/24. Does it need memory?--Progress-ish
And "in the meantime" I figured something was wrong on the Unibus, so I
pulled all of the cards except CPU, memory, and the 9302 terminator.
Still flunks in any memory references in ODT. Weird.
Then I pulled the memory card so it was just the CPU. Same thing.
Then I figured might as well put the memory back, and pull the
terminator. Sure enough, memory board LED goes red....
But the CPU can now read and write to memory locations via ODT. Loading
100 into location 0 works, and I can read location 0 and now see 100.
That's weird. It looks like the problem is using a 9302 terminator
instead of a 9312. Is there differences between the 930, 9302, 9312, and
other terminators by chance (yes, it's in the last slot in the AB slot).
Weird. But getting closer every day...
C
25 Oct
25 Oct
6:01 p.m.
New subject: Next project: 11/24. Does it need memory?--Working-ish!
Ok, so now the three old style 11/24 CPU boards seem to be working. Ish.
The problem with the processor boards turned out to be the switches: On
my original 11/24 board it would work only at 19200. This is because the
switch pack is dirty and the contacts ain't working.
Solution: Spray 95% isopropyl alcohol right into the switch housing from
the top with all switches set to off. Then toggle the switches, then
toggle again, spray again, and set them. Board 1 now works at 9600 baud.
Board 3 was a bit more odd: It didn't do anything at any baud. So I set
both switch packs to all off, then did the above cleaning, then set them
properly and sure enough it comes up into ODT at 9600 baud.
The last board is a new style 11/24 and it doesn't do anything but it
does have three switch packs. So I just need to find the manual for it,
set the switches, and give it a try.
In the meantime the UNIBUS problem also appears to be fixed: The problem
was that sure enough: One of the memory slot SPC's (4) did not have the
DMA jumper. Found it pretty quickly with a continuity meter and checking
slot C pins 1,3 (top) for continuity. On the good side slot 9 does have
a DMA jumper, so I simply put the RX02 controller in slot 4, put the
G727 in slot 7, then put the TS11 controller (hex) in slot 8, then a
knucklebuster in slot 9 along with the 9302 terminator and all works great.
Isn't UNIBUS simple! Sorry, Q-Bus doesn't need a terminator, doesn't
have weird DMA stuff, and if you really need to put a card on a
particular side you can always grab a DLV11 (everyone has these) and use
it as a spacer. Anyone even know why Q-Bus doesn't need termination;
they used to do it with say the BDV11 but they just stopped doing it
after awhile.
Next step is to put the 11/24 away for the week and order a good 10 feet
of 40 pin ribbon cable so I can make an extension cable for the RX02.
Then I should be able to plug that in, set the RX02 to RX02 mode on the
drive (it's hooked to the 11/93's RXV11 now), key in a bootstrap from
the console, and see if I can boot an RX02 RT11 floppy.
Question: Can an RX02 boot an RX01 floppy formatted single density with
the DY: driver? Can it read an RX02 floppy in one drive and an RX01
floppy in the other or do you have to set the switches and use the right
controller card (that would be stupid, but sooooo DEC!)
Thanks everyone here and on the Discord for the help Getting there bit
by bit.
On 10/23/2020 8:07 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
And "in the meantime" I figured something
was wrong on the Unibus, so I
pulled all of the cards except CPU, memory, and the 9302 terminator.
Still flunks in any memory references in ODT. Weird.
Then I pulled the memory card so it was just the CPU. Same thing.
Then I figured might as well put the memory back, and pull the
terminator. Sure enough, memory board LED goes red....
But the CPU can now read and write to memory locations via ODT. Loading
100 into location 0 works, and I can read location 0 and now see 100.
That's weird. It looks like the problem is using a 9302 terminator
instead of a 9312. Is there differences between the 930, 9302, 9312, and
other terminators by chance (yes, it's in the last slot in the AB slot).
Weird. But getting closer every day...
C
7:56 p.m.
New subject: Next project: 11/24. Does it need memory?--Working-ish!
On 10/25/20 8:01 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
.....
Question: Can an RX02 boot an RX01 floppy formatted single density
with the DY: driver? Can it read an RX02 floppy in one drive and an
RX01 floppy in the other or do you have to set the switches and use
the right controller card (that would be stupid, but sooooo DEC!)
Thanks everyone here and on the Discord for the help Getting there bit
by bit.
Well done on sorting this out.? As to the RX02 questions....
An RX02 drive in RX02 mode can read either DEC single or double density
media in either drive.
If the RX01 media has a DY handler (RT11) configured as primary boot, it
"may" be possible.? It will definitely not work with the DX handler
configured.?? To do this, you also need a different ODT/ROM bootstrap. I
have pulled one I have in my files and pasted it below. I do not
remember the source, but looks like someone has tried this before.
?? Jerry
RX02 Single Density Bootstrap
Address??? Contents
001000??? 012700
001002??? 100240
001004??? 012701
001006??? 177170
001010??? 005002
001012??? 012705
001014??? 000100
001016??? 012704
001020??? 000401
001022??? 012703
001024??? 177172
001026??? 030011
001030??? 001776
001032??? 100437
001034??? 012711
001036??? 000007
001040??? 030011
001042??? 001776
001044??? 100432
001046??? 110413
001050??? 000304
001052??? 030011
001054??? 001776
001056??? 110413
001060??? 000304
001062??? 030011
001064??? 001776
001066??? 100421
001070??? 012711
001072??? 000003
001074??? 030011
001076??? 001776
001100??? 100414
001102??? 010513
001104??? 030011
001106??? 001776
001110??? 100410
001112??? 010213
001114??? 060502
001116??? 060502
001120??? 122424
001122??? 120427
001124??? 000007
001126??? 003735
001130??? 012700
001132??? 000000
001134??? 005007
001136??? 000000
26 Oct
26 Oct
6:31 p.m.
New subject: Next project: 11/24. Does it need memory?--Memory sad!
Ok, so I'm now troubleshooting the memory parity errors in the MS11-L
memory. And yes, there are bit errors in the memory. I wrote a simple
program to check the first 64k bank and I've found errors in bit 2 but
not everywhere but on a predictable pattern of addresses. Interesting,
possible that one of the address drivers is shot in that particular chip..
Checking the board I can see that most of the chips are ITT chips, 21
16935 01. However I can also see that this is not this board's first
rodeo, as several chips have been replaced with ITT chips 8411x 21 14897
01 models.
Is there an equiv model for these chips that can be found? Looks like a
16k*1 16 pin MOS ram chip with +12,+5,and -5 voltages (wow!). I guess if
they can't be found I can pull chips from the parity section and just
ignore parity but I'd prefer not to desolder/resolder chips.
As they say, it ain't gonna fix itself so I might as well get going on
it. ;-)
CZ
6:42 p.m.
New subject: Next project: 11/24. Does it need memory?--Memory sad!
On 10/26/20 8:31 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
Ok, so I'm now troubleshooting the memory parity
errors in the MS11-L
memory. And yes, there are bit errors in the memory. I wrote a simple
program to check the first 64k bank and I've found errors in bit 2 but
not everywhere but on a predictable pattern of addresses. Interesting,
possible that one of the address drivers is shot in that particular
chip..
Checking the board I can see that most of the chips are ITT chips, 21
16935 01. However I can also see that this is not this board's first
rodeo, as several chips have been replaced with ITT chips 8411x 21
14897 01 models.
Is there an equiv model for these chips that can be found? Looks like
a 16k*1 16 pin MOS ram chip with +12,+5,and -5 voltages (wow!). I
guess if they can't be found I can pull chips from the parity section
and just ignore parity but I'd prefer not to desolder/resolder chips.
As they say, it ain't gonna fix itself so I might as well get going on
it. ;-)
CZ
I have used this site to help me determine substitutes for memory chips
- http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/memory/ram.htm
? Jerry
7:17 p.m.
New subject: Next project: 11/24. Does it need memory?--Memory sad!
Oh, they're just 4116's then. That's simple, as someone pointed out on
Discord Jameco sells them so I just bought 10 and 10 low profile sockets.
The other alternative was pulling apart one of my MSV11-D boards from
the Q-Bus world but that would be sad... :-)
6:32 a.m.
New subject: Next project: 11/24. Does it need memory?--Working-ish!
On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 9:01 PM Chris Zach via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Isn't UNIBUS simple! Sorry, Q-Bus doesn't need a terminator, doesn't
have weird DMA stuff, and if you really need to put a card on a
particular side you can always grab a DLV11 (everyone has these) and use
it as a spacer. Anyone even know why Q-Bus doesn't need termination;
they used to do it with say the BDV11 but they just stopped doing it
after awhile.
I suspect that you don't "need" termination on the QBUS if it's short
(ie a
single backplane), maybe a couple of feet of wire length. The UNIBUS
generally had a much longer bus (10s of feet isn't atypical for a well
configured system), so reflection would have been more of a problem.
Pat
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ce.murillosanchez＠gmail.com -
cube1＠charter.net -
cz＠alembic.crystel.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu -
jsw＠ieee.org -
pat＠vax11.net