9 Aug
2004
9 Aug
'04
8:23 a.m.
Vintage Computer Festival <vcf(a)siconic.com> wrote:
First of all, a pure DOS computer is a VERY handy tool
to have around.
MS-DOS is really a program loader, which is actually extremely important
since PCs do not come with monitor program.
SUNs come with the Forth boot ROM which is arguably far more useful than
MSDOS, but not very popular. For this reason you won't see anything like
MSDOS for SUNs.
I have a VMware VM running MSDOS with network support and I use this
to compile TurboC programs (for some reason the tcc linker does not run
in a Windows 2000, or later DOS box, it does run on MS-DOS-based systems
like Windows 95/98/ME).
I also find the lack of any amount of resource management by MSDOS to be
invaluable for writing programs that explore the behaviour of hardware
systems (e.g. HP-IB devices).
Of course, I wouldn't use such a system for any real work :-) I am amazed
that people actually did so.
**vp
9 Aug
9 Aug
8:40 a.m.
On Mon, 9 Aug 2004, Vassilis Prevelakis wrote:
Of course, I wouldn't use such a system for any
real work :-) I am amazed
that people actually did so.
Well, I think the fact that you could use it for real work should say
something. Sure, it was crap, but then along came Windows and it made DOS
look good. In fact, I'm convinced that Windows was a ploy by Microsoft to
get everyone to be more fond of DOS and increase its sales.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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9:27 a.m.
Of course, I
wouldn't use such a system for any real work :-) I am amazed
that people actually did so.
Well, I think the fact that you could use it for real work should say
something. Sure, it was crap, but then along came Windows and it made DOS
look good. In fact, I'm convinced that Windows was a ploy by Microsoft to
get everyone to be more fond of DOS and increase its sales. 
9:40 a.m.
New subject: TurboC (was: 8" floppy project
On Mon, 9 Aug 2004, Vassilis Prevelakis wrote:
MS-DOS is really a program loader, which is actually
extremely important
since PCs do not come with monitor program.
It also has a crude API (extended from the CP/M API).
Are you saying that it is not an OS because you don't like the API?
Or because the multitasking functions in the API are
undocumented and crude?
... and it has DEBUG (the most powerful and important
program to ever run on MS-DOS)
I have a VMware VM running MSDOS with network support
and I use this
to compile TurboC programs (for some reason the tcc linker does not run
in a Windows 2000, or later DOS box, it does run on MS-DOS-based systems
like Windows 95/98/ME).
I run the TurboC (2.0x) IDE on Win2K and on WinXP.
I teach C Programming at College Of Alameda, where the lab is
entirely Win2K, and at Vista College, where the lab is entirely XP.
I make the students do one program using a command
line compiler. I demo with, and offer them the use of,
DeSmet/PCC, but they may substitute another command
line compiler of their choice. The first assignment
(getting the tools to work) is to write a program to
put their name on the screen. That is significantly
better as a first assignment than "Hello, world",
since the personalization gives them more personal
satisfaction on completion, and forces every one of
them to do their own compile, instead of turning in
a copy of somebody else's.
Then I make them do one program using a crude IDE.
I demo with, and offer them the use of TurboC V2.0,
but they may substitute another crude IDE of their choice.
THEN, and only then, I let them use any compiler
that they want for the remainder of the course.
Many immediately attempt to use Visual C.
Of course, I wouldn't use such a system for any
real work :-) I am amazed
that people actually did so.
depends on what kind of "real work" you WANT to do.
It works [sort of] as an application launcher.
But most of all, IT WILL GET OUT OF THE WAY when you
want to do "real work".
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
11:04 a.m.
New subject: TurboC (was: 8" floppy project
On Mon, 9 Aug 2004, Fred Cisin wrote:
I developed somewhat mission critical systems on DOS that realized
millions of dollars in revenue. I know other people who've done the same.
DOS is very functional.
And as Fred says, it gets out of the way when you want it to.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
Of course, I
wouldn't use such a system for any real work :-) I am amazed
that people actually did so.
depends on what kind of "real work" you WANT to do.
It works [sort of] as an application launcher.
But most of all, IT WILL GET OUT OF THE WAY when you
want to do "real work". 
12:43 p.m.
New subject: TurboC (was: 8" floppy project
Fred Cisin said:
I make the students do one program using a command
line compiler. I demo with, and offer them the use of,
DeSmet/PCC, but they may substitute another command
I used to really love that compiler, way back before I switched from DOS
to Linux and discovered the joys of gcc... There's a lot to be said for
DOS, though. There's an operating system called FlexOS which appears to
be DOS with 32-bit stuff and loadable modules for, among other things,
networking, that is used in a lot of POS gear.
Gordon.
2:41 p.m.
New subject: TurboC (was: 8" floppy project
In message <20040809111742.N58928(a)shell.lmi.net>
Fred Cisin <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> wrote:
THEN, and only then, I let them use any compiler
that they want for the remainder of the course.
Many immediately attempt to use Visual C.
Visual C. *spit*.
I prefer GCC - on RISC OS I use GCCSDK, on Win32 I use MinGW and on Linux I
use the "normal" IA-32 GCC.
For DOS16 work, I tend to use the freeware Digital Mars C++ compiler.
depends on what kind of "real work" you WANT
to do.
It works [sort of] as an application launcher.
But most of all, IT WILL GET OUT OF THE WAY when you
want to do "real work".
Very nice when you want to, oh, say, take over the disc controller and make
it read some oddball format or other :)
Later.
--
Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB,
philpem(a)dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice,
http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI
... A fail-safe circuit will destroy others.
3:07 p.m.
New subject: TurboC (was: 8" floppy project
On Tue, 10 Aug 2004, Philip Pemberton wrote:
EXACTLY!
but also handy for things like screen capture, or background TSRs
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
Visual C. *spit*.
There are some people who really like its capabilities.
Also, the guy who teaches C++ makes his students use it.
But for a FIRST semester student, if it's used as the
default compiler, MOST of the semester will be taken up
with learning the tools.
I prefer GCC - on RISC OS I use GCCSDK, on Win32 I use
MinGW and on Linux I
use the "normal" IA-32 GCC.
For DOS16 work, I tend to use the freeware Digital Mars C++ compiler.
There are a LOT of compilers that are better suited for LEARNING C than
Visual C is! I send my students to:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/msdos-programmer-faq/part5/section-10.html
And, I finally got the lab for my class switched to a lab
that also has a few Macs! Now, students who want to try
something else will have the opportunity.
depends on
what kind of "real work" you WANT to do.
It works [sort of] as an application launcher.
But most of all, IT WILL GET OUT OF THE WAY when you
want to do "real work".
Very nice when you want to, oh, say, take over
the disc controller and make
it read some oddball format or other :) 
10:59 a.m.
At 01:23 PM 8/9/04 -0400, vp wrote:
Vintage Computer Festival <vcf(a)siconic.com>
wrote:
Unless you use a Zenith PC. They came with a monitor/debugger built into
ROM. Just use CNTL-ALT-INSERT to bring it up. OTOH I've had very good
results just using Debug with MS-DOS.
Joe
First of all, a pure DOS computer is a VERY handy
tool to have around.
MS-DOS is really a program loader, which is actually extremely important
since PCs do not come with monitor program.
7268
days inactive
7268
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8 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
gordon＠gjcp.net -
philpem＠dsl.pipex.com -
rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com -
spectre＠floodgap.com -
vcf＠siconic.com -
vp＠cs.drexel.edu