21 Jun
2002
21 Jun
'02
5:10 a.m.
Primary goal is backup - TELEDISK should do that.
Secondary goal is
to produce image files suitable for use with simh and E-11.
Backup implies an ability to restore, and, at least
for me, TELEDISK has problems doing that. On my system
(which at the time was a K6 233MHz machine) 3.5"
disks could be restored without issue but 5.25"
disks could not be reliably restored (this seemed
to apply to both 360KB and 1.2MB disks). I assume
that restoring RX50s will be no easier.
It might just have been my system, it might just
have been my copy of TELEDISK (there seem to be
multiple copies floating around) but it did not
fill me with confidence.
Is the TELEDISK format freely available? If not,
restoring your disks may be difficult once the
last PC has expired!
BACKUP/PHYSICAL has the advantage that you can at
least work out where each block ends up (since the
BACKUP source listings are available).
(If anyone has suggestions for "imaging" 360KB
floppies, 1.2MB floppies and RX50s using PC hardware
running Windows or Linux or NetBSD, I'm all ears.
Preference given to those with practical experience
of restoring the data afterwards ... I'm not keen
to run through several hundred floppies just on
the off-chance it will be worthwhile.)
Antonio
21 Jun
21 Jun
7:50 a.m.
On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Antonio Carlini wrote:
Unlike Antonio, I've had no such problems. If you have problems with one
computer, you might wish to move to a different machine to try this with.
Primary goal is
backup - TELEDISK should do that. Secondary goal is
to produce image files suitable for use with simh and E-11.
Backup implies an ability to restore, and, at least
for me, TELEDISK has problems doing that. On my system
(which at the time was a K6 233MHz machine) 3.5"
disks could be restored without issue but 5.25"
disks could not be reliably restored (this seemed
to apply to both 360KB and 1.2MB disks). I assume
that restoring RX50s will be no easier. Is the TELEDISK format freely available? If not,
restoring your disks may be difficult once the
last PC has expired!
I've seen a C program that decodes the 'normal compression' version of the
disk format floating around in source code on the internet. Looking
around, this seems to be it: http://www.conknet.com/~w_kranz/WTELEDSK.HTM
BACKUP/PHYSICAL has the advantage that you can at
least work out where each block ends up (since the
BACKUP source listings are available).
using 'dd' where possible is much easier
(If anyone has suggestions for "imaging"
360KB
floppies, 1.2MB floppies and RX50s using PC hardware
running Windows or Linux or NetBSD, I'm all ears.
Preference given to those with practical experience
of restoring the data afterwards ... I'm not keen
to run through several hundred floppies just on
the off-chance it will be worthwhile.)
1) If it's a true 360K or 1200K 5.25" disk or 720K or 1440K 3.5" disk, you
can just type 'dd if=/dev/fd0 of=disk.img' and get a copy of it, assuming
you don't have bad sectors (which teledisk handles more gradefully).
2) Something like teledisk would be fairly easy to construct on Linux/BSD
using floppy ioctl's, or INT 13h services on DOS/Winderz (non NT/2k/XP)
if you already know the disk format and the program doesn't have to do
the discovery (sides, cylenders, sec/track, etc).
-- Pat
9:15 a.m.
--- Pat Finnegan <pat(a)purdueriots.com> wrote:
On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Antonio Carlini wrote:
The problem is that for DEC RX50s, they are _not_ 360K or 1200K 5.25"
disks... they are single-sided, 10-sectors of 512 bytes per track, 80
tracks. They can be read in an ordinary PC high-density drive, but
they aren't the usual Windoze format. If they were, I'd just use 'dd'
as you suggest.
So... again... who here knows how to make 400KB images from real RX50s
that emulators will like? I have a wad of Ultrix 32m and MicroVMS
diskettes I'd like to spool off, in addition to a small quantity of
RT-11.
If I have to go with DEC hardware, I can; it will just take a lot longer
to do.
-ethan
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
(If anyone has suggestions for
"imaging" 360KB
floppies, 1.2MB floppies and RX50s using PC hardware
running Windows or Linux or NetBSD, I'm all ears.
1) If it's a true 360K or 1200K 5.25" disk or 720K or 1440K 3.5" disk,
you can just type 'dd if=/dev/fd0 of=disk.img' and get a copy of it...
10:42 a.m.
On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:
--- Pat Finnegan <pat(a)purdueriots.com> wrote:
I know.. that's why I said 'if' and the #2 options. I'm working on a
DOS program to format the disk and write the tracks, and probably will
write a quick 50-liner to read the disks (this is in assembly), which
I'll post once I get it to work. Does anyone have info or links to
relevant info on the necessary ioctl's for Linux's floppy device driver?
-- Pat
On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Antonio Carlini wrote:
The problem is that for DEC RX50s, they are _not_ 360K or 1200K 5.25"
disks... they are single-sided, 10-sectors of 512 bytes per track, 80 (If anyone has suggestions for
"imaging" 360KB
floppies, 1.2MB floppies and RX50s using PC hardware
running Windows or Linux or NetBSD, I'm all ears.
1) If it's a true 360K or 1200K 5.25" disk or 720K or 1440K 3.5" disk,
you can just type 'dd if=/dev/fd0 of=disk.img' and get a copy of it... 
11:44 a.m.
On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:
The problem is that for DEC RX50s, they are _not_ 360K
or 1200K 5.25"
disks... they are single-sided, 10-sectors of 512 bytes per track, 80
tracks. They can be read in an ordinary PC high-density drive, but
they aren't the usual Windoze format. If they were, I'd just use 'dd'
as you suggest.
I _hate_ it when dd won't work! And it won't, at least in Linux --
there's apparently no device which reads/writes 80/10/512 on 5.25"
floppy. I can't find anything for NetBSD, either.
However, I did find this --
http://www.conknet.com/~w_kranz/WTELEDSK.HTM
a TeleDisk clone that "should" compile in Linux, but didn't. I
didn't
try hard....
It really irks me that I have to keep a DOS box around for stuff like
this. Atari .msa disks, the TeleDisk files all over the web, all seem
to be used mostly by Linux/Unix-savvy people, but there aren't any
PC-Unix utilities.
I guess maybe now I have a burning drive (pun intended) to learn C....
So... again... who here knows how to make 400KB images from real RX50s
that emulators will like? I have a wad of Ultrix 32m and MicroVMS
diskettes I'd like to spool off, in addition to a small quantity of
RT-11.
Ooohhh.... Ultrix! Will it run on KA630 or KA655? The PUPS version
of 32M is like 11/780 or older or something.
Erzatz-11 eval says you can read-write RX50 on a HD 5.25" drive. I
expect that emulators, or at least E-11, will like those....
Doc
12:40 p.m.
--- Doc <doc(a)mdrconsult.com> wrote:
They came from our MicroVAX-I or MicroVAX-II, c. 1986-1987, so the KA630
should be no problem. Dunno about the KA655, though. My newest Qbus CPU
is a uVAX-II (got RAM, but no CPU). I think it all fits on an RD52; an
RD53 would be plenty of room.
On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:
I did find a device on the Linux side of the boxin question with something
close - it's double-sided, though. If it matters, I think it's running
an ancient Slackware distro (4.0?) 2.0.36 kernel. I only upgrade software
at gunpoint. I haven't tried anything with it yet, due to the DS nature.
I suppose I could go digging in the source and create a minor device
number that did what I want, at least in terms of geometry. The one I'm
looking at, BTW, is minor number 120 (IIRC), if that even is a portable
quantity. Major numbers aren't once you start fiddling with devices and
recompiling the kernel.
The problem is that for DEC RX50s, they are _not_
360K or 1200K 5.25"
disks... they are single-sided, 10-sectors of 512 bytes per track, 80
tracks.
I _hate_ it when dd won't work! And it won't, at least in Linux --
there's apparently no device which reads/writes 80/10/512 on 5.25"
floppy. I can't find anything for NetBSD, either. However, I did find this --
http://www.conknet.com/~w_kranz/WTELEDSK.HTM
a TeleDisk clone that "should" compile in Linux, but didn't. I
didn't
try hard....
Thanks. I'll look into that.
I guess maybe now I have a burning drive (pun
intended) to learn C....
I got that covered.
I have a wad
of Ultrix 32m and MicroVMS diskettes...
Ooohhh.... Ultrix! Will it run on KA630 or KA655? The PUPS version
of 32M is like 11/780 or older or something. Erzatz-11 eval says you can read-write RX50 on a HD
5.25" drive. I
expect that emulators, or at least E-11, will like those....
I guess I can go that route, too. I hadn't dug into E-11 enough to know
that I could use a real 5.25" drive with the emulator. It begs the
question, though - how well does a *real* RX50 drive work with a PeeCee,
with or without E-11? Any advantage?
-ethan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
1:20 p.m.
On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:
They came from our MicroVAX-I or MicroVAX-II, c. 1986-1987, so the KA630
should be no problem. Dunno about the KA655, though. My newest Qbus CPU
is a uVAX-II (got RAM, but no CPU). I think it all fits on an RD52; an
RD53 would be plenty of room.
Why would anybody WANT to? :)
I haven't ever even hooked up my RX50. So far, TK50 & netboots have
been sufficient.
Doc
I did find a device on the Linux side of the boxin
question with something
close - it's double-sided, though. If it matters, I think it's running
an ancient Slackware distro (4.0?) 2.0.36 kernel. I only upgrade software
at gunpoint. I haven't tried anything with it yet, due to the DS nature.
I suppose I could go digging in the source and create a minor device
number that did what I want, at least in terms of geometry. The one I'm
looking at, BTW, is minor number 120 (IIRC), if that even is a portable
quantity. Major numbers aren't once you start fiddling with devices and
recompiling the kernel.
/dev/fdX800 is major 2 minor 120, 800k, 80 tracks, double-sided 10
sector, *3.5"* device. Won't fly on 5.25".
I've written 360k SS images on 720k DS disks with no problems, as long
as the drive is single-sided. I don't know that I've tried it with a HD
drive without preformatting the disk to SS first.
I have a wad of Ultrix 32m and MicroVMS diskettes...
Ooohhh.... Ultrix! Will it run on KA630 or KA655? The PUPS version
of 32M is like 11/780 or older or something. Erzatz-11 eval says you can read-write RX50 on
a HD 5.25" drive. I
expect that emulators, or at least E-11, will like those....
I guess I can go that route, too. I hadn't dug into E-11 enough to know
that I could use a real 5.25" drive with the emulator. It begs the
question, though - how well does a *real* RX50 drive work with a PeeCee,
with or without E-11? Any advantage?
1:53 p.m.
--- Doc <doc(a)mdrconsult.com> wrote:
Not a case of want. If I needed, for example, to make a stack of
distro floppies from images for, say. a Pro-380, there aren't a lot
of options except writing real media. I was just curious if a real
RX50 did a better job than a Teac FD55GFR or not. I would expect
"not" given the construction qualities of both devices, but I thought
I would ask.
On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:
/dev/fdX800 is major 2 minor 120, 800k, 80 tracks, double-sided 10
sector, *3.5"* device. Won't fly on 5.25".
Makes sense - it was 04:00 when I ran across it. Too bleary to notice
the minor detail of size.
> > I
have a wad of Ultrix 32m and MicroVMS diskettes...
> > ...how well does a *real* RX50 drive work with a
> > PeeCee, with or without E-11? Any advantage?
Why would anybody WANT to? :) I haven't ever even hooked up my RX50. So far,
TK50 & netboots have
been sufficient.
Don't got a DECNA. :-( TK50 and ethernet would be OK for uVAX, though.
I'm thinking PDP-11 at this point.
-ethan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
7:04 p.m.
Ethan Dicks wrote:
YES!! The PRO380 does not (as far as I know) have a controller for the
TK50.
And the PRO380 does NOT have a controller for the RX33 either!!
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
--
If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail
address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk
e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be
obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the
'at' with the four digits of the current year.
Not a case of want. If I needed, for example, to make
a stack of
distro floppies from images for, say. a Pro-380, there aren't a lot
of options except writing real media. I was just curious if a real
RX50 did a better job than a Teac FD55GFR or not. I would expect
"not" given the construction qualities of both devices, but I thought
I would ask.
Jerome Fine replies:
And why bother. Is a Teac FD55GFR a 5 1/4" HD 1.2 MByte floppy?
If so, it can probably be used as an RX33 with an RQDX3 on a real
DEC PDP-11.
I have no idea if it can be used on a PRO380.
I would definitely NOT use an RX50 on a PeeCee!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I
haven't ever even hooked up my RX50. So far, TK50 & netboots have
been sufficient.
Don't got a DECNA. :-( TK50 and ethernet would be OK for
uVAX, though.
I'm thinking PDP-11 at this point.
22 Jun
22 Jun
8:33 a.m.
--- "Jerome H. Fine" <jhfinepw4z(a)compsys.to> wrote:
And why bother. Is a Teac FD55GFR a 5 1/4" HD
1.2 MByte floppy?
Yes.
If so, it can probably be used as an RX33 with an
RQDX3 on a real
DEC PDP-11.
It is, AFAIK, _the_ model DEC used as the RX33, with the jumpers moved
around from PeeCee use.
I would definitely NOT use an RX50 on a
PeeCee!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So I've heard from multiple people, but I'm still looking for a
factual reason, not an emotional one. One reason to do it, at
least from an "interesting hardware" standpoint, would be for quicker
duplication of RX50s - put the source in one, the dest in another
and go. The problem, of course, is that the PeeCee controller and/or
software (E-11, RX50DRVR, etc.), might not expect such a strange beast
and not do the right thing.
Obviously, putting two FD55GFRs in the same PeeCee could accomplish
much the same thing. I'll have to go back and find my configuration
instructions - I think the two drives I have were strapped for RX33
use. They are *not* working in my PeeCee, but I _did_ find a 3.5"/5.25"
combo drive that worked.
-ethan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
9:11 a.m.
Ethan Dicks wrote:
"Jerome
H. Fine" <jhfinepw4z(a)compsys.to> wrote:
And why bother. Is a Teac FD55GFR a 5 1/4" HD 1.2 MByte floppy?
Yes.
If so, it can probably be used as an RX33 with an
RQDX3 on a real
DEC PDP-11.
It is, AFAIK, _the_ model DEC used as the RX33, with the jumpers
moved
around from PeeCee use. I would
definitely NOT use an RX50 on a PeeCee!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So I've heard from multiple
people, but I'm still looking for a
factual reason, not an emotional one. One reason to do it, at
least from an "interesting hardware" standpoint, would be for quicker
duplication of RX50s - put the source in one, the dest in another
and go. The problem, of course, is that the PeeCee controller and/or
software (E-11, RX50DRVR, etc.), might not expect such a strange beast
and not do the right thing. Obviously, putting two FD55GFRs in the same PeeCee
could accomplish
much the same thing. I'll have to go back and find my configuration
instructions - I think the two drives I have were strapped for RX33
use. They are *not* working in my PeeCee, but I _did_ find a 3.5"/5.25"
combo drive that worked.
Since I use BINCOM 99.9% of the time to make sure that every image
that I copy from an RX50 (or any blocks at all for that matter) has been
copied correctly, there is not much reason to have two drives. It takes
just about the same time to copy an RX50 image to a temporary location
and then back to a second media as it takes to do the copy using two
floppy drives. When I include the BINCOM as well, the time is almost
doubled (almost since my version of BINCOM is usually able to do a
compare faster than the COPY - I use very large 96 block buffers and I
also double buffer - reading into the next buffers while I compare the
current buffers). It takes 152 KBytes of extended memory under the
RT11XM monitor, but the result is work while. The only time it is a
problem is when I must keep the buffers in the 18 bit address area
for an 18 bit device and that memory is already being used. I fixed
the DYX.SYS device driver to use a bounce buffer, but others have
not yet been fixed.
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
--
If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail
address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk
e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be
obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the
'at' with the four digits of the current year.
1:37 p.m.
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21 Jun
21 Jun
6:54 p.m.
Doc wrote:
On Fri, 21 Jun
2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:
I guess I can go that route, too. I hadn't dug into E-11 enough to know
that I could use a real 5.25" drive with the emulator. It begs the
question, though - how well does a *real* RX50 drive work with a PeeCee,
with or without E-11? Any advantage?
Why would anybody WANT to? :)
I haven't ever even hooked up my RX50. So far, TK50 & netboots have
been sufficient. from the time I copied the file to the RX50 at my end
until the copy was made
from the RX50 at the other end to the target PDP-11 to run the program. It did
not
hurt that TSX-PLUS was the operating system being used which is compatible
with RT-11.
--
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
--
If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail
address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk
e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be
obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the
'at' with the four digits of the current year.
6:42 p.m.
Ethan Dicks wrote:
Doc
<doc(a)mdrconsult.com> wrote:
Erzatz-11 eval says you can read-write RX50 on a HD 5.25" drive. I
expect that emulators, or at least E-11, will like those....
I guess I can go that
route, too. I hadn't dug into E-11 enough to know
that I could use a real 5.25" drive with the emulator. It begs the
question, though - how well does a *real* RX50 drive work with a PeeCee,
with or without E-11? Any advantage?
7:11 p.m.
On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
It also allows RX33 emulation if that is useful. Note
that the RX33
on a real DEC PDP-11 must be used with an RQDX3. Neither
the RQDX1 nor the RQDX2 can handle the RX33.
Or an RQZX1, at least one version of which allows an RX33 as one of
its devices. Or so they tell me, but I haven't gotten around to
plugging one in yet.
Doc
6:24 p.m.
Doc wrote:
On Fri, 21 Jun
2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:
The problem is that for DEC RX50s, they are _not_ 360K or 1200K 5.25"
disks... they are single-sided, 10-sectors of 512 bytes per track, 80
tracks. They can be read in an ordinary PC high-density drive, but
they aren't the usual Windoze format. If they were, I'd just use 'dd'
as you suggest.
I _hate_ it when dd won't work! And it won't, at least
in Linux --
there's apparently no device which reads/writes 80/10/512 on 5.25"
floppy. I can't find anything for NetBSD, either. So... again...
who here knows how to make 400KB images from real RX50s
that emulators will like? I have a wad of Ultrix 32m and MicroVMS
diskettes I'd like to spool off, in addition to a small quantity of
RT-11.
Ooohhh.... Ultrix! Will it run on KA630 or KA655? The PUPS version
of 32M is like 11/780 or older or something.
Erzatz-11 eval says you can read-write RX50 on a HD 5.25" drive. I
expect that emulators, or at least E-11, will like those....
2:45 p.m.
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4:33 p.m.
Ethan,
John M.B.Wilson, creator of the Ersatz-11 PDP11 emulator wrote a program
fdcdemo that one can use use to create and duplicate RX50 floppies
on a 1.2 Mb drive using low density (360 kb) floppy disks. The program was
available on his site. Mind, you need a proper floppy disk controller with
more than one crystal but this is explained in the documentation of the
program.
Wim Hofman
----- Original Message -----
From: Ethan Dicks <erd_6502(a)yahoo.com>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 4:15 PM
Subject: RE: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s?
--- Pat Finnegan <pat(a)purdueriots.com> wrote:
On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Antonio Carlini wrote:
The problem is that for DEC RX50s, they are _not_ 360K or 1200K 5.25"
disks... they are single-sided, 10-sectors of 512 bytes per track, 80
tracks. They can be read in an ordinary PC high-density drive, but
they aren't the usual Windoze format. If they were, I'd just use 'dd'
as you suggest.
So... again... who here knows how to make 400KB images from real RX50s
that emulators will like? I have a wad of Ultrix 32m and MicroVMS
diskettes I'd like to spool off, in addition to a small quantity of
RT-11.
If I have to go with DEC hardware, I can; it will just take a lot longer
to do.
-ethan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
(If anyone has suggestions for
"imaging" 360KB
floppies, 1.2MB floppies and RX50s using PC hardware
running Windows or Linux or NetBSD, I'm all ears.
1) If it's a true 360K or 1200K 5.25" disk or 720K or 1440K 3.5" disk,
you can just type 'dd if=/dev/fd0 of=disk.img' and get a copy of it...
22 Jun
22 Jun
9:06 p.m.
"W.B.(Wim) Hofman" wrote:
Ethan,
John M.B.Wilson, creator of the Ersatz-11 PDP11 emulator wrote a program
fdcdemo that one can use use to create and duplicate RX50 floppies
on a 1.2 Mb drive using low density (360 kb) floppy disks. The program was
available on his site. Mind, you need a proper floppy disk controller with
more than one crystal but this is explained in the documentation of the
program.
Wim Hofman
Jerome Fine replies:
Normally when I wish to create (Low Level Format) an RX50 floppy,
I use PUTR. Actually, I looked for fdcdemo and can't seem to locate it:
http://www.dbit.com/pub/
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
--
If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail
address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk
e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be
obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the
'at' with the four digits of the current year.
23 Jun
23 Jun
9:38 a.m.
New subject: History x2 in 'Wired'
The issue of Wired I just picked up, July, features
two computer history items:
A Wired-original 2-page history chart of all (about
75 total) popular computer languages since 1954.
and a mini-introduction (with Big Cray pic.) of the new book
"Computers: An Illustrated History"
(on Amazon as by Christian Wurster)
(sounds like this was the guy to get for VCF.de)
(also here:
http://www.taschen.com/pages/en/catalogue/books/architecture_design/new/fact
s/02976.htm
John A.
4:09 p.m.
New subject: History x2 in 'Wired'
The issue of Wired I just picked up, July, features
two computer history items:
Finally a reason to check out the magazines my wife has mysteriously been
getting (we've no idea why).
A Wired-original 2-page history chart of all (about
75 total) popular computer languages since 1954.
I've got to question how accurate this is. It lists Algol 68 as "Extinct",
which it defines as "No known active users or up-to-date compilers". There
are at least a few users in the PDP-10 community.
It also lists BCPL as being extinct, yet IIRC it's still being sold by a
company in Europe.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
24 Jun
24 Jun
1:46 a.m.
New subject: History x2 in 'Wired'
At 02:09 PM 23/06/2002 -0700, Zane H. Healy wrote:
I've got to question how accurate this is. It
lists Algol 68 as "Extinct",
which it defines as "No known active users or up-to-date compilers". There
are at least a few users in the PDP-10 community.
Whilst I'd like a copy of Algol 68C to run on my emulated DECsystem-10, I'm
more than coping with Algol 68G which is a front end to the gcc. I've
successfully run some of my old Algol 68C code on my PWS500a running Linux
and I have noticed a slight performance improvement :-) More on Algol 68G
at http://www.xs4all.nl/~jmvdveer/algol.html
It also lists BCPL as being extinct, yet IIRC it's
still being sold by a
company in Europe.
Well you can get a very nice INTCODE interpreter written in c which allows
you to run the BCPL compiler and also the generated INTCODE programs. If I
understood more about gcc, I guess it would be relatively easy to generate
a BCPL front end in the same way that has been done with Algol 68G. I
should point out that the interpreter gives almost as good performance as
the original DECsystem-10 compiled programs....
Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)kerberos.davies.net.au
| "If God had wanted soccer played in the
| air, the sky would be painted green"
24 Jun
24 Jun
4:59 a.m.
New subject: History x2 in 'Wired'
>A Wired-original 2-page history chart of all
(about
> 75 total) popular computer languages since 1954.
The 75 "most important" would be nice, but
"ALL"?!?
I chose the words 'all popular' carefully, but perhaps Your languages
list would be interesting to see. I'm mainly enthused that ancient
computer languages would be a chosen topic at all at Wired.
John A.
23 Jun
23 Jun
2:51 p.m.
For FDCDEMO try http://www.dbit.com/pub/ibmpc/floppy/
Wim
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerome H. Fine <jhfinepw4z(a)compsys.to>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 4:06 AM
Subject: Re: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s?
was
"W.B.(Wim)
Hofman" wrote:
> Ethan,
> John M.B.Wilson, creator of the Ersatz-11 PDP11 emulator wrote a program
> fdcdemo that one can use use to create and duplicate RX50 floppies
> on a 1.2 Mb drive using low density (360 kb) floppy disks. The program > available on his site. Mind, you need a proper
floppy disk controller
with
more than one
crystal but this is explained in the documentation of the
program.
Wim Hofman
Jerome Fine replies:
Normally when I wish to create (Low Level Format) an RX50 floppy,
I use PUTR. Actually, I looked for fdcdemo and can't seem to locate it:
http://www.dbit.com/pub/
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
--
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8:51 p.m.
"W.B.(Wim) Hofman" wrote:
For FDCDEMO try http://www.dbit.com/pub/ibmpc/floppy/
Jerome Fine replies:
I took a quick look at the documentation - THANK YOU!!
However, if I am using RX50 media on the PC, I suspect
that PUTR and Ersatz-11 will be far superior.
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
--
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'at' with the four digits of the current year.
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26 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
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allain＠panix.com -
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