13 May
2002
13 May
'02
6:52 a.m.
Good Morning,
I think this may have come up some weeks back...
But among 8-inch floppy drives and other unspecified
items, NASA is buying up all the 8086 microprocessors
they can lay their hands on, specifically, to keep the
Space Shuttle flying. Not the more common 8088, of
course, but its 16-bit big brother.
Although as government agencies go, NASA doesn't have
deep pockets, it certainly has deeper ones than I do.
I should count my recent acquisition of the IBM 8 inch
external floppy drive as a soon-to-be-rare occurance.
Anyone else here ticked of that not only are they
trying to keep that questionable pig flying, but
they are doing it by reducing further the quantity
of collectable stuff? Screw the boost in value...
-dq
-Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"]
Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply
"The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits
13 May
13 May
7:33 a.m.
At 07:52 AM 5/13/2002 -0400, you wrote:
But among 8-inch floppy drives and other unspecified
items, NASA is buying up all the 8086 microprocessors
they can lay their hands on, specifically, to keep the
Space Shuttle flying. Not the more common 8088, of
course, but its 16-bit big brother.
And how many 8086s do they really need, and how many
have they found? I would guess "not too many" and "lots",
respectively. I think the article mentioned that their
booster testers used them. I doubt the process is
destructive to the 8086. So how many booster testers
do they have, and how many have failed in the CPU?
It's got to be minimal. Even if they tested a pair
of boosters for every launch and the 8086s were
destroyed, I'm sure they've found enough long ago.
I saw the article in this Sunday's paper, too. I didn't
get upset. It was just PR. When they're ready to cut
your funding, you run PR that shows what tightwads you are.
I'm sure they picked the 8086 example as one that even
a member of Congress could understand.
Towards the end of the article, it mentions spending $500
on some old I/O card - now that example made me wonder!
It reminded me of the time I bought some old multi-serial
card for a few bucks, and only got $40 or so on eBay, and
it sold to a local guy who'd previously paid $500 or so
for them, when he could find them.
Now, if you want to be subversive, go to the NASA surplus
auctions and buy up all the old stuff that has 8086s in it. :-)
- John
8:04 a.m.
John Foust wrote:
snip
> And how many 8086s do they really need, and how many
> have they found? I would guess "not too many" and "lots",
> respectively. I think the article mentioned that their
> booster testers used them. I doubt the process is
> destructive to the 8086. So how many booster testers
> do they have, and how many have failed in the CPU?
snip
> Towards the end of the article, it
mentions spending $500
> on some old I/O card - now that example made me wonder!
snip
> Now, if you want to be subversive, go to the NASA surplus
> auctions and buy up all the old stuff that has 8086s in it. :-)
> - John
Remember when they spend your tax dollar, the checking account has no
limits. Remember the Pentagon spending $400+ for an ash tray, and over
a grand for a common claw hammer???
Gary Hildebrand
St. Joseph, MO
8:25 a.m.
At 08:04 AM 5/13/2002 -0500, you wrote:
Remember when they spend your tax dollar, the checking
account has no
limits. Remember the Pentagon spending $400+ for an ash tray, and over
a grand for a common claw hammer???
Just to make an attempt to keep this on-topic,
as the list had been doing so well lately, I would
say that one of the motivating factors in collector's
minds is the price of the old systems, as compared to
today's scrap price. I do get a kick out of the
~$20K price of a Terak (in 1979 dollars no less) that
might sell for less than $10 today.
- John
9:53 a.m.
On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 08:25:01AM -0500, John Foust wrote:
Just to make an attempt to keep this on-topic,
as the list had been doing so well lately, I would
say that one of the motivating factors in collector's
minds is the price of the old systems, as compared to
today's scrap price. I do get a kick out of the
~$20K price of a Terak (in 1979 dollars no less) that
might sell for less than $10 today.
I'd LOVE to pick up a Terak for $10.. Pointers? 8-)
BIll
--
Bill Bradford
mrbill(a)mrbill.net
Austin, TX
12:48 p.m.
Remember when they spend your tax dollar, the checking
account has no
limits. Remember the Pentagon spending $400+ for an ash tray, and over
a grand for a common claw hammer???
And remember how these prices are not due to the actual item,
or the Pentagon wanting to spend this much, but rather due to
the cost of the government bureaucracy put in place by the
legislative branch of the government?
Don't blame the military or NASA. Blame the Congress and
civil service. The excessive paperwork and procedures are
what causing high prices and slow advancement.
--
Eric Dittman
dittman(a)dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/
1:43 p.m.
...yes ... and blame the morons to whom the military contracts specification
of their supplies. (remember the $9600 allen-wrench?)
Some grad student at Johns-Hopkins, given the spec for a 1" allen-wrench,
simply sscaled down the 3-mil tolerance to the 3/32" size. The vendors then
had to hire three or four inspectors to find the hundred or so wrenches that
met the spec, since no manufacturing process known to man would produce,
consistently, the .09375" hex key to a tolerance of +/-0.00028."
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Dittman" <dittman(a)dittman.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: Bidding Against NASA
Remember when
they spend your tax dollar, the checking account has no
limits. Remember the Pentagon spending $400+ for an ash tray, and over
a grand for a common claw hammer???
And remember how these prices are not due to the actual item,
or the Pentagon wanting to spend this much, but rather due to
the cost of the government bureaucracy put in place by the
legislative branch of the government?
Don't blame the military or NASA. Blame the Congress and
civil service. The excessive paperwork and procedures are
what causing high prices and slow advancement.
--
Eric Dittman
dittman(a)dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/
12:07 p.m.
On Mon, 13 May 2002, John Foust wrote:
And how many 8086s do they really need, and how many
have they found? I would guess "not too many" and "lots",
respectively. I think the article mentioned that their
booster testers used them. I doubt the process is
destructive to the 8086. So how many booster testers
do they have, and how many have failed in the CPU?
It's got to be minimal. Even if they tested a pair
of boosters for every launch and the 8086s were
destroyed, I'm sure they've found enough long ago.
My guess is that the reporter failed to grasp that they are probably
looking for milspec parts, as opposed to the common stuff found in PCs and
whatnot. These of course would be far harder to find in quantity.
I don't doubt that they are also looking for regular parts for test
systems as well. I know they are using a lot of older systems. Last year
I did a data recovery job for them where the data was 8080 assembly code.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
7:54 a.m.
If they want to pay me big bucks, I have a dozen or two 8086 IBM machines I
couldm pull the CPU on ---- second retirement would be nice :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Douglas H.
Quebbeman
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 6:53 AM
To: ClassicCmp List
Subject: Bidding Against NASA
Good Morning,
I think this may have come up some weeks back...
But among 8-inch floppy drives and other unspecified
items, NASA is buying up all the 8086 microprocessors
they can lay their hands on, specifically, to keep the
Space Shuttle flying. Not the more common 8088, of
course, but its 16-bit big brother.
9:31 a.m.
Russ Blakeman wrote:
But among 8-inch floppy drives and other unspecified
items, NASA is buying up all the 8086 microprocessors
they can lay their hands on, specifically, to keep the
Space Shuttle flying. Not the more common 8088, of
course, but its 16-bit big brother.
That explains why NASA can't get a real space program
going ... Intel is behind it!
Anyway they would need space/radiation rated chips,
not the garden variety stuff.
--
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html
10:27 a.m.
No, they don't need space rated parts. Almost everything they are looking
for goes into ground support or testing equipment. There are several
articles on the 'net about this, that go into all the details.
--John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ben Franchuk
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 10:31
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Bidding Against NASA
Russ Blakeman wrote:
But among 8-inch floppy drives and other unspecified
items, NASA is buying up all the 8086 microprocessors
they can lay their hands on, specifically, to keep the
Space Shuttle flying. Not the more common 8088, of
course, but its 16-bit big brother.
That explains why NASA can't get a real space program
going ... Intel is behind it!
Anyway they would need space/radiation rated chips,
not the garden variety stuff.
--
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html
12:52 p.m.
But yet on one of the newsgroups someone challenged me when I made note that
at late as 1985 I used tube based equipment on missile systems in the USAF
... All sorts of stuff out there that stiil works and still in useful
function. I sold a TRS-80 model 4 to Bayer (aspirin people) back in 1998
and they couldn't get it fast enough - had me ship overnight to them and
sniped the bid from someone that had a bid of $25 - I thought it was a shill
but the $255 closed and they actually sent the money by Western Union (no
Paypal then). From my understanding they weren't due to dissolve the TRS
controllers until early 2000 and the lack of one shut one line down, laying
people off and keeping orders from going out the door.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of J.C. Wren
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 10:28 AM
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: RE: Bidding Against NASA
No, they don't need space rated parts. Almost everything they are looking
for goes into ground support or testing equipment. There are several
articles on the 'net about this, that go into all the details.
--John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ben Franchuk
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 10:31
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Bidding Against NASA
Russ Blakeman wrote:
But among 8-inch floppy drives and other unspecified
items, NASA is buying up all the 8086 microprocessors
they can lay their hands on, specifically, to keep the
Space Shuttle flying. Not the more common 8088, of
course, but its 16-bit big brother.
That explains why NASA can't get a real space program
going ... Intel is behind it!
Anyway they would need space/radiation rated chips,
not the garden variety stuff.
--
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html
11:57 p.m.
Russ Blakeman wrote:
I sold a TRS-80 model 4 to Bayer (aspirin people)
back in 1998
and they couldn't get it fast enough - had me ship overnight to them and
sniped the bid from someone that had a bid of $25 - I thought it was a shill
but the $255 closed and they actually sent the money by Western Union (no
Paypal then). From my understanding they weren't due to dissolve the TRS
controllers until early 2000 and the lack of one shut one line down, laying
people off and keeping orders from going out the door.
I had a similar situation with an XT. I bought an IBM XT that was in
pretty good original shape from a surplus shop. I had my fun with it,
but grew tired of it, and decided to Ebay it. A corporation that builds
equipment for power companies bought it from me. It didn't go too high,
unfortunetly, but they paid me to "next day" it to California! The
shipping cost was way more than the bid. Unfortunetly, it took me
awhile to get it to them because UPS dropped the check they sent me to
my apartment rental office, they knew nothing of it, so the company sent
another check by Fedex. The apartment rental office then found the
other check and I got both checks :-( I was a bit too nervous to send
the computer with out payment. I didn't want to be stuck with that
shipping bill!
I asked what the computer was for..... they had some sort of test
equipment that was run by an IBM XT.... it died, and they needed another :-)
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA
10:35 a.m.
New subject: Score! Two prototypes!!
I've just made the biggest score I've ever had..not because
of quantity but because of what the items are:
First is direct from Dave Haynie, a name any Amiga fan will
recognize. It's a prototype 68040 CPU board for the Amiga 3000 made
in 1990/91. It actually came out of his Amiga 3000 and is the very
board described in "The Big Book of Amiga Hardware" website. This is
a very different board than the later A3640.
Now the biggest score...a Be Inc. "Hobbit" prototype! This
machine was part of the Be liquidation back in January and was
purchased as part of a large lot of computers by a reseller. He had
no interest in it, though he did recognize it as being an early
version of their BeBox, and posted it for sale. I got it for $50!!
It is serial# 9308000044, though supposedly only 30 of these were
actually built. It has three AT&T 9308S DPS's and two AT&T 9309A
CPU's. The only expansion card installed in it's quad-row header
expansion slots is the video card, dated July 1993 and based on the
Trident TGUI9430C chip. It boots up to the following:
"Boot ROM of March 15 1994"
then opens a terminal window, displaying:
"Welcome to the new improved console"
$
That's as far as it goes. Commands such as LS and CD work as
expected and the directory structure looks very similar to various
Unix flavors.
The system has identical stickers on both the mainboard and
back of the case (which is a generic PC clone case, complete with
Turbo button) which shows:
"Be Incorporated"
"REMOVAL VOIDS WARRANTY"
"Serial Number 9308000044"
"Rev. A"
It uses standard PS/2 mice, AT keyboards, 30pin SIMM RAM,
SCSI hard disk and a TEAC FD-23HF floppy drive. It has dual serial,
parallel, what appears to be dual game, mouse, keyboard and VGA video
ports on the rear of the machine.
Jeff
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
8:03 p.m.
New subject: Score! Two prototypes!!
wow!!!! that IS the score of the year!
Jeff Hellige wrote:
I've just made the biggest score I've
ever had..not because
of quantity but because of what the items are:
First is direct from Dave Haynie, a name any Amiga fan will
recognize. It's a prototype 68040 CPU board for the Amiga 3000 made
in 1990/91. It actually came out of his Amiga 3000 and is the very
board described in "The Big Book of Amiga Hardware" website. This is
a very different board than the later A3640.
Now the biggest score...a Be Inc. "Hobbit" prototype! This
machine was part of the Be liquidation back in January and was
purchased as part of a large lot of computers by a reseller. He had
no interest in it, though he did recognize it as being an early
version of their BeBox, and posted it for sale. I got it for $50!!
It is serial# 9308000044, though supposedly only 30 of these were
actually built. It has three AT&T 9308S DPS's and two AT&T 9309A
CPU's. The only expansion card installed in it's quad-row header
expansion slots is the video card, dated July 1993 and based on the
Trident TGUI9430C chip. It boots up to the following:
"Boot ROM of March 15 1994"
then opens a terminal window, displaying:
"Welcome to the new improved console"
$
That's as far as it goes. Commands such as LS and CD work as
expected and the directory structure looks very similar to various
Unix flavors.
The system has identical stickers on both the mainboard and
back of the case (which is a generic PC clone case, complete with
Turbo button) which shows:
"Be Incorporated"
"REMOVAL VOIDS WARRANTY"
"Serial Number 9308000044"
"Rev. A"
It uses standard PS/2 mice, AT keyboards, 30pin SIMM RAM,
SCSI hard disk and a TEAC FD-23HF floppy drive. It has dual serial,
parallel, what appears to be dual game, mouse, keyboard and VGA video
ports on the rear of the machine.
Jeff
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
14 May
14 May
7:57 a.m.
New subject: Score! Two prototypes!!
wow!!!! that IS the score of the year!
I'm working on taking some high resolution pictures of it,
inside and out. I've been slow to get pictures taken of anything
else but this one is a bit different.
Jeff
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
8:30 a.m.
New subject: Score! Two prototypes!!
I ran onto a bunch of Vic20-related stuff yesterday ... is that of interest to
anyone? It wasn't sold because it hadn't been priced yet, but there was a
modem, the Vic20, a PSU, and a few things I couldn't see ... there were also a
couple of 1541's and a C64. I doubt any of that stuff wil be tagged at over
$6.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Hellige" <jhellige(a)earthlink.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 6:57 AM
Subject: Re: Score! Two prototypes!!
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In-Reply-To: <000701c1fa74$b1a4ea50$e401a8c0(a)tegjeff.com>
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 12:36:49 -0700
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)aracnet.com>
Subject: Re: Bidding Against NASA
Sender: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
wow!!!! that IS
the score of the year!
I'm working on taking some high resolution pictures of it,
inside and out. I've been slow to get pictures taken of anything
else but this one is a bit different.
Jeff
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
Anyone else here ticked of that not only are they
trying to keep that questionable pig flying, but
they are doing it by reducing further the quantity
of collectable stuff? Screw the boost in value...
My question is, what are they paying for such things!
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
11:58 a.m.
New subject: [CCTALK] Word for AT&T 6300 question
I just received a copy of MS Word for AT&T 6300 computer. It says copywrite
1983, 1984.
Does anybody have any idea what version of Word it is? It does not say on
the outside.
It's shinkwrapped and I don't want to open it to see what it says inside.
Thanx in advance for any information.
15 May
15 May
8:26 a.m.
New subject: [CCTALK] Re: Score! Two prototypes!!
Richard Erlacher wrote:
I ran onto a bunch of Vic20-related stuff yesterday ... is that of interest to
anyone? It wasn't sold because it hadn't been priced yet, but there was a
modem, the Vic20, a PSU, and a few things I couldn't see ... there were also a
couple of 1541's and a C64. I doubt any of that stuff wil be tagged at over
$6.
Dick
I'm interested in game cartridges mostly, but get me a list and I'll let
you know. Is the VIC early style (internal 5v regulator) or late style
(C=64 brick p/s and DIN power plug)??
Gary Hildebrand
St. Joseph, MO
13 May
13 May
10:49 a.m.
At 07:52 AM 5/13/02 -0400, Doug wrote:
Good Morning,
I think this may have come up some weeks back...
But among 8-inch floppy drives and other unspecified
items, NASA is buying up all the 8086 microprocessors
they can lay their hands on,
Where did you hear this? I deal with NASA frequently (as recently as last Wednesday) and
I've nver heard remotely like this. I did supply two boxs of 8" floppy disks to
NASA a couple of months ago but that was all thye wanted. I could supplied close to 100
boxs of new disks but they only wanted two boxs in order to keep one system running. That
certainly doesn't qualify as "buying up all they can lay their hands on".
specifically, to keep the
Space Shuttle flying. Not the more common 8088, of
course, but its 16-bit big brother.
Although as government agencies go, NASA doesn't have
deep pockets, it certainly has deeper ones than I do.
I should count my recent acquisition of the IBM 8 inch
external floppy drive as a soon-to-be-rare occurance.
Anyone else here ticked of that not only are they
trying to keep that questionable pig flying, but
they are doing it by reducing further the quantity
of collectable stuff? Screw the boost in value...
8086s collectable? Yeah right! Only if you believe the rants of the E-bay sellers!
Joe
PS I just ran a number of Google searches looking for anything related to Nasa wanting
8086 CPUs and I got ZERO hits.
10:17 a.m.
I suspect that all this is, in the words of Mark Twain, "Greatly Exaggerated."
Joe.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe" <rigdonj(a)cfl.rr.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: Bidding Against NASA
At 07:52 AM 5/13/02 -0400, Doug wrote:
Wednesday) and I've nver heard remotely like this. I did supply two boxs of
8"
floppy disks to NASA a couple of months ago but that was all thye wanted. I
could supplied close to 100 boxs of new disks but they only wanted two boxs in
order to keep one system running. That certainly doesn't qualify as "buying up
all they can lay their hands on".
Good Morning,
I think this may have come up some weeks back...
But among 8-inch floppy drives and other unspecified
items, NASA is buying up all the 8086 microprocessors
they can lay their hands on,
Where did you hear this? I deal with NASA frequently (as recently as last
specifically, to keep the
E-bay
sellers!
Space Shuttle flying. Not the more common 8088,
of
course, but its 16-bit big brother.
Although as government agencies go, NASA doesn't have
deep pockets, it certainly has deeper ones than I do.
I should count my recent acquisition of the IBM 8 inch
external floppy drive as a soon-to-be-rare occurance.
Anyone else here ticked of that not only are they
trying to keep that questionable pig flying, but
they are doing it by reducing further the quantity
of collectable stuff? Screw the boost in value...
8086s collectable? Yeah right! Only if you believe the rants of the
Joe
PS I just ran a number of Google searches looking for anything related to
Nasa
wanting 8086 CPUs and I got ZERO hits.
8276
days inactive
8278
days old
20 comments
15 participants
participants (15)
-
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
davebarnes＠adelphia.net -
dittman＠dittman.net -
dquebbeman＠acm.org -
edick＠idcomm.com -
fernande＠internet1.net -
foo＠siconic.com -
gehrich＠tampabay.rr.com -
ghldbrd＠ccp.com -
jcwren＠jcwren.com -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
jhellige＠earthlink.net -
mrbill＠mrbill.net -
rhb57＠vol.com -
rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com